RedCafe Cricket Draft- Aldo vs nm03

Who will win based on players in their prime, team tactics and balance?


  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
49,917
Aldoraine's team summary

Team : Pitch Campers

Mark Taylor
: 19 hundreds, over 7k runs ata healthy average of 52 at the top of the order, highest score of 334 and to add to that, one of the best captains and slip fielders of all time.

Herschelle Gibbs
: Complimenting Taylor, an aggressive player capable of scoring quick runs and has an average of 48 at his position in the team.

Mahela Jayawardene
: Averaging over 50 in his career, 10K runs, another good captain and slip fielder, solid man, can stay on the pitch for hours.

Steve Waugh : Captain of the team, exceptional batsman and leader, can guide the team out of trouble in the toughest of situations, averages over 51, excellent with the tail, can bowl whenever needed.

Andy Flower : One of the best players of spin, exceptional keeper and batsman, again averaging over 51 and can play long innings without losing concentration.

Arjuna Ranatunga : A thorn in the path of many bowling attacks, stuck to the wicket like a leech. Adds to the list of great leaders in the team.

Paul Collingwood
: Fairly modern compared to the rest, but very competitive. Useful batsman down the order with the odd big score and more then capable of providing a breakthrough.

Merv Hughes
: Leading the Aussie attack for many games, the great moustache man brings a lot of fire and hunger to the bowling attack. Averaging 28, which isnt that bad, and 212 wickets in 53 games.

Matthew Hoggard : Sharing the attack with Hughes, full of energy and ability to move the ball,almost 250 wickets to his name.

Vernon Philander : Second fastest to reach 50 wicket mark, a pure wicket taker.

Abdur Rehman : 81 wickets in 17 games with an avg of 28.

Batting is my strength, and I will be looking to put the other team under pressure by posting huge scores and ensure that the loss is out of the way. With that platform, the bowlers will have enough chance to get the wickets they want. His bowling maybe better than mine but still it doesn't look like it can stop all of my batsmen. At least 2 of them wil go one to post big scores and there is no way he can stop that. Philander maybe new in the game but he has achieved man of the series against Aus and other accolades which bowlers strive to get after playing 10 years of cricket.

---------------

nm03's piece

Note: I hate people embellishing facts, so everything I write, other than figures, which are accurate are only what I think, and not facts unless backed by a source in my description.

Summary:

1. Mark Richardson: Left handed opening batsman. Scored 2776 runs @ 44.77 in 38 test matches. 4 100s and 19 50s.
Richardson is a slow batsman who prizes his wicket. He is difficult to remove from the crease and scores at a slow rate. His average (according to cricinfo) was 50 for most of his career, but regressed at the end. He has scored 100s in India and England, and will be a part of my steady but unspectacular opening partnership. His role will be to wear down the opposition bowlers, stay at the crease, and complement the stroke players that come in later.

2. Alec Stewart (wk): Right handed opening batsman. Scored 8463 runs @ 39.54 in 133 test matches. 15 100s and 45 50s.
Stewart is a gritty player that will also be difficult to dislodge. He captained England, and is a more instinctual player to go with the very methodological Richardson. Together they will form a solid opening partnership.

3. Dean Jones: Right handed batsman. He played 1 down most of his test career. Scored 3631 runs @46.55 in 52 test matches. 11 100s and 15 50s.
Jones may be well known for his performances in ODIs, but he is a very solid test player. He is a fighter – he once made 210 in Chennai, and ended the game on a saline drip. He will not give an inch to the opposition. He will complement Lara very well, and is the first cog in my strong middle order. A good outfielder as well.

4.Brian Lara: Left handed batsman. He played at number 4 for most of his career. Scored 11953 runs @ 52.88 in 131 matches. 34 100s and 48 50s. Strike rate of 60. One of the best batsmen of all time. Highest score: 400 not out. A very good slip fielder as well.
Lara is the jewel of my middle order – not much I need to say about him. Better than any batsman on Aldo’s team (IMO) and somebody I loved watching play as a kid. Also captained the West Indies, but when they were on their way down.

5.VVS Laxman: Right handed batsman. Played in the middle order his entire career. Scored (and still scoring!) 8781 runs @45.97 in 134 matches. 17 100s and 54 50s. Probably would have had more 100s if he didn’t bat so low in the Indian order. To put it simply, he is very very special.
Laxman is the third cog of my middle order. He is a specialist in lost causes, and tormentor in chief of the great Australian sides. Laxman thrives in pressure situations, and is a very stylish player. If nothing else – my team will be a joy to watch. Laxman also (and this is my memory so may be wrong) plays very well with the tail. He has often batted for long periods with the Indian tails. The Aussies (according to cricinfo) simply said they didn’t know how to bowl to him after the 03-04 tour there. That is how devastating he can be. Watching him and Lara play together would be just beautiful. He is also a very good slip fielder.

6. Greg Matthews: Left handed batsman. Right arm off spinner. Matthews started out as a specialist spinner, but transformed into a batting all-rounder who can bowl. He scored 1849 runs @ 41.08 in 33 test matches. He took 61 wickets @ 48.22 as well. 4 100s and 12 50s.
Matthews is a fighter. He wasn’t good enough as a bowler alone, so retooled his game so much that he has a better average than some specialist batsmen! He will also be the orthodox off spinner of my spin trio, bowling a bit to add variety and eat the overs up. He is more than capable of picking up wickets though. He has taken 10 wickets in a game (over 2 innings) for Australia.

7.Stuart Broad: All-rounder. Left handed batsman. Right hand fast bowler. Took 161 wickets @31.16 in 49 tests. Scored 1524 runs @27.21 in 49 tests. He is still playing. 1 100 and 9 50s.
Broad is my all-rounder at number 7. He will ably support my middle order, hang around, and score runs quickly. He will also open my bowling along with Makhaya Ntini. He provides important balance to my batting order, and give me wickets early on.

8. Paul Reiffel: Bowler who can bat. Right handed batsman. Right handed fast bowler. Took 104 wickets @ 26.96 in 35 tests. Scored 955 runs @ 26.52.6 50s.
Reiffel is probably my second best bowler, but will bowl as first change, as he primarily did for Australia. He is a line and length bowler who can move the ball both ways off the pitch. He will trouble batsmen no matter the state of the pitch and ball, and will provide valuable wickets after my opening bowlers provide the early breakthroughs. He is also useful with the bat, and ensures I bat down to 8.

9. Paul Adams: Slow left arm Chinaman. 131 wickets @ 32.87 in 45 test matches. Also has the best bowling action ever. He doesn’t even see the batsman!
Adams is one of my two spinners, and has a good average considering spinners don’t get much help in South Africa. He will eat overs, give the quicks time to recover and pick up wickets. Also, bowling in tandem with another spinner will help him.

10.Mushtaq Ahmed: Leg Spinner. 85 wickers @ 32.97 in 42 tests.
Mushtaq is my other spinner. One of the few good leggies ( I can’t remember too many other than Warne and Kumble who are legends tbh) of this draft, Mushtaq will bowl in tandem with Adams and Matthews to bamboozle batsmen. The argument against him will always be – why does a Pakistani spinner have an average above 30, but Mushtaq also took 100 wickets in a county season in England, so he can do it in all conditions.

11.Makhaya Ntini: Right arm fast bowler. 390 wickets @ 28.82 in 101 matches.
Ntini is one of my key cogs - he is a wicket-taker. plain and simple. Another in the great line of South African quickies, he will be a real threat with the new ball, and a useful workhorse later in the games. Having 3 spinners to take the burden off him, he will be able to get plenty of rest and be fresh and lethal when he bowls. Having their key bowlers fresh whenever needed is not something all the other teams can count on - plus he is VERY entertaining when batting!

12th man: Shahid Afridi: 27 test matches. 1716 runs @36.51 and 48 wickets @36.60.
Boom Boom. Smashing batsman who can both open and bat lower down, useful partnership breaker, great fielder. Captained Pakistan. Most versatile 12th man around.

My strategy and thoughts on Aldo's team against mine:


Captaincy: I will captain by committee. Stewart is my nominal captain, but Lara and even Afridi as 12th man will provide input during breaks.

Batting Strategy: The openers will provide a solid platform for the middle order. Stewart and Richardson will grind down Aldo’s bowlers. The middle order of Lara, Jones, Laxman and Matthews will then pile on the runs before my tail-enders (I bat till 8) support the likes of Laxman. I see myself putting on a BIG score. Also note that I have a very even number of lefties and righties - it will be hard for his bowlers to settle!

Bowling Strategy: Ntini and Broad to open, with Reiffel following after. Plenty of aggression (Ntini), and precision (Reiffel) there. The spinners will then come in, with Mushtaq and Adams bowling in tandem, before Matthews also throws his arm in. Spinners tend to work better in pairs, so having 3 very different ones (leggie – Mushtaq, chinaman – Adams, offie – Matthews) can only help me. The batsmen won’t be able to settle. They will also provide my quicks with adequate rest, which not a lot of other quicks will have.

My view on Aldo’s Team: He has a VERY solid batting order. Best batting order up to number 5 in the draft (round 1 only). No doubt about that. Then it all falls apart for me. Ranatunga @ an average of 35 doesn’t worry me. Collingwood only has 18 wickets in tests, so I don’t see how he can provide a breakthrough. His bowling, apart from Hughes, is average (in comparism to others in this draft). Hoggard isn’t a world beater, and his remaining two bowlers have played less than 30 tests combined! He can talks all he likes about Philander being great, but Ajantha Mendis was supposed to be Murali. What happened there? Irfan Pathan was supposed to be the next Akram! You can't judge bowlers as "great" on short test samples. It just isn't right. I don’t see how those bowlers can take 20 wickets.

My view on the match: Draw 3 times out of 5. But my superior bowling means I am more likely to win the other two times. I think I really should win this on a balance of probabilities, but am worried big names in his team might swing this against me. Both teams are batter heavy, but there is no way he is taking 20 wickets against me! I at least have a shot at doing that. I pick up a couple of early wickets and there is IMMENSE pressure on his middle order. I make inroads there, and it really is game over.

Here we go
 
Copied my post over from the other thread.


This is such a close one. Both teams seem to have identical strategies...bat the other guys out of the game. nm's right in that they'll fight to 3 to 4 draws in a 5 match series,

There's so little to choose between the batting line-ups. They're both so..so close and absolutely awesome. nm's bowling is a shade better but is it better enough to make a big difference? I don't know.

I suspect i'm going to go with my heart on this one. I just can't see the like of Steve Waugh, Ranatunga and Taylor be willing to be on a losing side. 4 out of top 6 are legendary captains and Mahela's not far behind. I have no idea how but I think they'll find some way to win.
 
Copied my post over from the other thread.


This is such a close one. Both teams seem to have identical strategies...bat the other guys out of the game. nm's right in that they'll fight to 3 to 4 draws in a 5 match series,

There's so little to choose between the batting line-ups. They're both so..so close and absolutely awesome. nm's bowling is a shade better but is it better enough to make a big difference? I don't know.

I suspect i'm going to go with my heart on this one. I just can't see the like of Steve Waugh, Ranatunga and Taylor be willing to be on a losing side. 4 out of top 6 are legendary captains and Mahela's not far behind. I have no idea how but I think they'll find some way to win.

I don't think you can call it a shade better when he has two bowlers who have played 25 tests total. My bowling is clearly better IMO. I have more variety and greater numbers. The only way I lose this is if people go with the big names IMO.
 
Both stupendous batting line ups. I am certain that all the matches between these two will end in draws. The bowling of both are just not good enough to get the other one out.

Even though Aldo's middle order is ridiculously good, it is that man Lara for me. I don't think anyone else can match him when it comes to play match winning innings in tests. And he is supported by VVS, another one known for playing big test innings. Aldo's batting still edges it but not by much and Lara has the X factor to level it up for me.

So it really comes down to the bowling. And on that front, nm03 has done his best by stacking up as many bowlers he could. There is still no way they would get past that middle order twice for me but on average his attack is better. So by closes of margin, I am voting for nm03.

Worth noting that it is funny that perhaps the two weakest bowling attack in the draft drew each other. Will hurt the winner big time in the next round.
 
Btw Taylor has average of 43 as an opener not 52. Pointless to separate averages between facing the first ball and being at the bowling end.
 
Both stupendous batting line ups. I am certain that all the matches between these two will end in draws. The bowling of both are just not good enough to get the other one out.

Even though Aldo's middle order is ridiculously good, it is that man Lara for me. I don't think anyone else can match him when it comes to play match winning innings in tests. And he is supported by VVS, another one known for playing big test innings. Aldo's batting still edges it but not by much and Lara has the X factor to level it up for me.

So it really comes down to the bowling. And on that front, nm03 has done his best by stacking up as many bowlers he could. There is still no way they would get past that middle order twice for me but on average his attack is better. So by closes of margin, I am voting for nm03.

Worth noting that it is funny that perhaps the two weakest bowling attack in the draft drew each other. Will hurt the winner big time in the next round.

I know. I don't even know what I will do if I win. I need a bowler, but none of his really improve mine!
 
Btw Taylor has average of 43 as an opener not 52. Pointless to separate averages between facing the first ball and being at the bowling end.

Thats some research Crappy. That average did seem a little high to me as well...never had Taylor down as a 50s averaging player.

Sorry nm. I went with Aldo in the end. I just can't imagine seeing Steve Waugh in a losing side (though before anybody jumps on me, I do remember very well his loss in the final frontier). It's a bit of cliche but if I had to pick one batsman to bat for my life, i'd pick him. Sure Lara, Tendulkar and maybe a few others were more talented but in a situation when it comes to doing what it takes in the big games, nobody does it better than Steve Waugh.
 
Thats some research Crappy. That average did seem a little high to me as well...never had Taylor down as a 50s averaging player.

Sorry nm. I went with Aldo in the end. I just can't imagine seeing Steve Waugh in a losing side (though before anybody jumps on me, I do remember very well his loss in the final frontier). It's a bit of cliche but if I had to pick one batsman to bat for my life, i'd pick him. Sure Lara, Tendulkar and maybe a few others were more talented but in a situation when it comes to doing what it takes in the big games, nobody does it better than Steve Waugh.

Your choice mate. I can see people being swayed by their heart/big names. I still can't see his side taking 20 wickets - I at least have a shot at that.
 
For FFS. I'm going to do a comparism of Bowling attacks: All stat according to cricinfo

Total Tests
NM: approx 330

Aldo: Approx 200

Wickets:
NM: Over 1000

Aldo: 600 odd.

HOW ARE THESE BOWLING ATTACKS SIMILAR????
 
I presume people aren't using stats to compare the players but rather doing a head to head.
 
I presume people aren't using stats to compare the players but rather doing a head to head.

Well how can you see his bowlers taking 20 wickets? Mostly draws when the 2 teams play, but there is no way he is bowling me out more often than I am him.

I sound like a broken record though.
 
Thats some research Crappy. That average did seem a little high to me as well...never had Taylor down as a 50s averaging player.

Sorry nm. I went with Aldo in the end. I just can't imagine seeing Steve Waugh in a losing side (though before anybody jumps on me, I do remember very well his loss in the final frontier). It's a bit of cliche but if I had to pick one batsman to bat for my life, i'd pick him. Sure Lara, Tendulkar and maybe a few others were more talented but in a situation when it comes to doing what it takes in the big games, nobody does it better than Steve Waugh.

Yeah but this is about winning and not drawing. If I had to pick a batsmen to play a match winning innings in a test, it will be easily be Lara. Those twin century innings against the great Oz side were unreal, he batted a long time with the tail as well. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you said about Waugh, would have been my pick if he was available.
 
Aldo's batting is better than nm's purely because he's got Collingwood at 7 whilst NM has Broad at 7. Broad's not that dependable compared to Collingwood who is a batsman that can bowl a bit. However, I do rate NM's bowling more than Aldo's. Jeez this is close. Probably the closest of all games.
 
Gone with NM here. Aldo does have a very strong batting line up but NM's not that far behind. I just rate Aldo's bowling attack though. More often than not I'd wager Reiffel, Ntini, Broad, Mustaq and Adams will get 20 wickets compared to Aldo's attack. It was close though, very, very, very close
 
I sound like I am campaigning for nm03.. not really.. just reminiscing about the great Lara, loved watching him bat. Sat up all night at times, watching his innings in Windies.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/126127.html

These are the two innings I am talking about BTW, the first one probably my favorite test innings of all time.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63839.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63838.html

Funnily, Waugh himself had centuries in both tests, fittingly though got surpassed by Lara's innings.
 
Aldo's comments in response to nm's points.

AldoRaine18 said:
II would like to add that KM doesn't have a leader of the caliber of Waugh, Taylor or even Jayawardene. Against a strong batting order when your bowlers aren't able to get wickets, which I can see happening when he bowling, you need a smart head to guide the team and make intelligent changes. He has designated Stewart as his captain with Lara as vice captain. Say my batsmen are on song in a big partnership, do you expect Alec Stewart to come up with an idea to break it? At that time just being unimaginative and asking the bowlers to bowl regular stuff and get them out won't work.

On my side, even if my bowling is partly inexperience, with the group of Taylor, Waugh ad Ranatunga and Jaywardene offering help, I can count on them to come up with much better strategies to use the bowlers in a way to tilt the match in my direction. And mind you, it's not like my bowling is useless. Merv Huges was not only intimidating, but was a class act in his day and has excellent stats that put him in the bracket of top bowlers in the draft. Hoggard isn't a world beater but at his prime troubled batsmen a lot. While Philander is currently tormenting batsmen all over the world. Man of the series against Australia, demolition of NZ and now impressive against England. Abdur Rehman again ripped apart England when they were the number 1 in the world.

My bowling doesnt end there. Steve Waugh was more than capable with the ball and I count him as a genuine all rounder. his bowling records are excellent for a part timer. The match is in Melbourne if I am not wrong? In that case the home advantage for Waugh and Taylor and also Hughes will come into play. While I have all the respect in the world for Lara and Laxman, they will not have a free ride on the pitch as NM is claiming. I havent even counted Collingwood's nippy ability with the ball which will be useful in providing variety or just being economical and creating pressure.

This is shaping up to be a fascinating contest. Just a reminder to everybody that Aldo's vote needs to be added since nm's vote is being counted. For example, the poll shows 3-3 now but it should actually be 4-3 in favour of Aldo.
 
I hope aldo PM's someone so that he can be heard.

But if Stretch copped so much crap for a non-regular keeper, how can you excuse aldo's bowling? According to me, he has Hughes and Hoggard, Hughes being good. And that's it.
 
I hope aldo PM's someone so that he can be heard.

But if Stretch copped so much crap for a non-regular keeper, how can you excuse aldo's bowling? According to me, he has Hughes and Hoggard, Hughes being good. And that's it.
I agree with you but nm03 attack is also poor and not good enough to get the other side out as well. It just about edges it so I voted for him but this matchup would really end up in a draw given all the batsmen involved are supposed to be at their peak.
 
I agree with you but nm03 attack is also poor and not good enough to get the other side out as well. It just about edges it so I voted for him but this matchup would really end up in a draw given all the batsmen involved are supposed to be at their peak.

But on a good day, 1 out of the 5 tests, you could see nm's bowling doing some damage. But aldo just doesn't have bowlers. 3 including Waugh
 
It's 38 off 125 balls, 170 mins. Still just about did his job. Walsh surviving 14 balls to let Lara win the match was MOTM worthy performance.

Yeah. Just edited my post. I remember that entire series. WI were such underdogs but scrapped so much and deserved the series win.
 
IL, your actual vote would be appreciated. :angel:
 
Yeah. Just edited my post. I remember that entire series. WI were such underdogs but scrapped so much and deserved the series win.
It was great. I remember him lumping Warne and Macgill for many a sixes. Oz bowling attack that series was - McGrath, Gillespie, Warne, Macgill.
 
Jimmy Adams and Gary Kirsten - two batsmen I would pay not to have to watch.

I would add Chanderpaul in there but there's a morbid fascination in watching him be so great while looking so awkward.

That's you way of saying you hate my team? :p

I love such players in Tests. You know for a fact that they'll just plant themselves there.
 
Look up 10 posts or so. He PM'd me and I put it up.

Think Aldo's depending on the two current wonderboys Philander and Rehman shining for him. Its thin but there's a small possibility I suppose.

I have to admit I voted with my heart.
 
That's you way of saying you hate my team? :p

I love such players in Tests. You know for a fact that they'll just plant themselves there.

You have both of them don't you? You should start on negative points on aesthetic grounds.

West Indians should not be allowed to bat(or bowl) ugly. Goes against the fundamental principles of cricket.
 
I sound like I am campaigning for nm03.. not really.. just reminiscing about the great Lara, loved watching him bat. Sat up all night at times, watching his innings in Windies.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/126127.html

fecking hell...just read this in that article.

The collector's item
by Fazeer Mohammed

180 for Trinidad and Tobago v Jamaica, Port-of Spain, Trinidad, 1993-94

It is doubtful whether Brian Lara has ever played better than on January 22-23, 1994, when he single-handedly led Trinidad and Tobago to a first-innings lead over Jamaica in their Red Stripe Cup fixture at the Queen's Park Oval in Trinidad.

He has compiled much larger scores in front of thousands of spectators on the world stage, but his virtuoso performance in front of a couple of hundred diehards will live long in the memory of those who had the privilege of seeing it.

Replying to Jamaica's first-innings total of 206, Lara came to the crease with the score at 38 for 2 on the first evening. When he was last out after lunch on the second day, he had scored a staggering 180 in 269 minutes off 267 balls with 24 fours and two sixes. While he was at the crease, just 19 runs came off the bats of his eight partners as Trinidad and Tobago were eventually dismissed for 237.

Lara added 105 for the eighth wicket with Rajindra Dhanraj, in which the legspinner's contribution was 11. No other batsman got beyond four while the captain was at the crease, yet his marshalling of the strike was so incredibly efficient that the runs continued to flow freely off his flashing blade.

A decent bowling attack comprising Courtney Walsh, Franklyn Rose, Nehemiah Perry and Robert Haynes was powerless to stop the master left-hander. When the field was brought in to deny him singles at the end of overs, he audaciously chipped the ball over the infield. When the Jamaicans patrolled the boundaries, they were still left gasping at his awesome combination of sublime timing and ******** precision.

One stroke - where he advanced down the pitch and hoisted Walsh over extra-cover for six - typified his dominance. The masterclass ended only because he seemed to think he had done enough and was caught at long-on off Haynes, as he went for one big hit too many. Given the ease with which he dictated proceedings, a double-century was there for the taking. But Lara wanted to win, and Trinidad and Tobago did that, by just three wickets with the captain contributing only 23 in the second innings - just to show that he was mortal.

What an innings that must've been. He made 180 and his 8 partners combined made 19.
 
Jimmy Adams and Gary Kirsten - two batsmen I would pay not to have to watch.

I would add Chanderpaul in there but there's a morbid fascination in watching him be so great while looking so awkward.

Try watching Shiv live. Stellar chap, but he couldn't possibly get more boring.
 
Look up 10 posts or so. He PM'd me and I put it up.

Think Aldo's depending on the two current wonderboys Philander and Rehman shining for him. Its thin but there's a small possibility I suppose.

I have to admit I voted with my heart.

I think nm's a sanctimonious tit, so yeah, I guess I voted with my heart too.
 
I think nm's a sanctimonious tit, so yeah, I guess I voted with my heart too.

feck off.

I'm only campaigning because quite simply I think people are going to see big names (I have only one) on his team, and then give him votes.
 
Nm's bowling attack edges it.
 
Voted NM. His bowling edges it for me. cracking batting lineups.