Reasons we can still win the league

scousers passing us by...... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

you could argue the case for Arsenal... but for liverpool??????
 
Originally posted by Gillespie:
<strong>

Frankly,I think Fergie has lost the plot.....recent purchases have been poor (Diego and Seba (sic!)).His behaviour is becoming even more demented (did you see how he reacted to Niaill Quinn after Keane's sending off?) and I begin to wonder how good a coach he is without McLaren or Kidd ,not very is my assessment.</strong><hr></blockquote>

dick
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Originally posted by Gillespie:
<strong>

What makes you Mancs think that you can play any better than you have done so far?
Top form ?.....will still not be good enough,in my view......face the facts.....both the Arse and the scousers have passed you by.</strong><hr></blockquote>

so it's all about the Toon these days, eh Keith? oh how quickly they forget ;)
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Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


So the fact that we lost away to the Spanish Champions, on a ground where no english team has ever scored, makes us worse than yourselves...

Who lost at home to Bolton..

Try harder</strong><hr></blockquote>


I agree Arsenal is still superior at this moment. But I believe if we maintain our current form we can beat you. Our defence has improved a lot this season, and we started to scoring lots of goal again recently. I believe if we play against you now we will have over 50% chance to beat you.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>


I agree Arsenal is still superior at this moment. But I believe if we maintain our current form we can beat you. Our defence has improved a lot this season, and we started to scoring lots of goal again recently. I believe if we play against you now we will have over 50% chance to beat you.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I reckon you could beat us, but the more likely scenario is that you won't....
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Liverpool better than United?? <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
 
Originally posted by manuman:
<strong>Liverpool better than United?? <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>We have beaten united 5 times in a row.We came ahead of you last year in the league.And your team is in turmoil.Besides the fact we have more history and championships.I'd have to say its pretty clear your time has come and gone.1 good decade out of ten wasn't bad though for united.

:)
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Originally posted by njred:
<strong>We have beaten united 5 times in a row.We came ahead of you last year in the league.And your team is in turmoil.Besides the fact we have more history and championships.I'd have to say its pretty clear your time has come and gone.1 good decade out of ten wasn't bad though for united.

:) </strong><hr></blockquote>

The fact that Liverpool has more history and championships means nothing, all that matters is a teams current form, and Man Utd are now back to their winning ways, and with Roy keane coming back soon aswell it looks like we might have one of the most competitive seasons we've had in a while.

PS. make that two good decades, remember the Matt Busby era?
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To all the Scousers who think that the league is the only guide to which teams are better, one simple request:

State for the record that you think Valencia and Deportivo are both better than Real Madrid

So we can all have a good laugh
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Yes...that's right njred. Liverpool Football Club. 0 Premierships - 0 Champions Leagues - One plastic treble. etc.

Come back when you win something respectable.
 
I can`t believe that yet again a supposed thread on Manchester United has been hijacked by Arsenal and Liverpool supporters! ;)

As for the words `still win the League`, whoever decreed that the Premiership title is decided by October? Top players do not lose their ability over one season unless they are approaching retirement. Anyone who questions the ability of the Manchester United first team and squad to win the Premiership this season is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Sure we do not have Thierry Henry but we have a superb striker in Ole and he has more medals than Henry to prove it. He also has shown his class in a European Cup final against a tough Bayern Munich side that played shut down tactics yet scored the winner in the dying moments. Give me Ole anyday. We also have a young, experienced striker in Ruud who is yet to hit his peak.

Just look at our midfield - on ability players such as Keano, Giggs, Beckham,Scholes, Veron surpass their Arsenal counterparts. And the nice thing about these players is they and their agents don`t go running to the papers knifing their team mates in the back unlike one or two Arsenal players I could mention. Sure, Papin has the hots for Patrick Veiera but what kind of recommendation is that?

I think Arsenal are playing great football at the moment and they did last season. But whoever forgets Manchester United`s consistency in the latter part of the season is fooling themselves that the Premiership title for Arsenal is a certainty. I also predict tears in the European Cup for Arsenal. I don`t think they will cut it against the really testing teams which they have not played yet.

I have a feeling Arsenal will find out, contrary to their expectations, that it is very hard to stay at the top.

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
 
I have every bit of confidence in United catching up with Arsenal within the next month or so.

Arsenal are losing goals every game and so when their scoring spree dries up, they're going to be in trouble.

I will have to agree with Gary Neville when he said Arsenal in the '97-'98 double winning year look much more solid than this one.
 
Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>I have every bit of confidence in United catching up with Arsenal within the next month or so.

Arsenal are losing goals every game and so when their scoring spree dries up, they're going to be in trouble.

I will have to agree with Gary Neville when he said Arsenal in the '97-'98 double winning year look much more solid than this one.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree, Arsenal have been losing goals in almost all their matches, which suggests that as good as they are going forward, they have some big problems at the back. Our defencive problems are now looking like being something of the past. Give it a while, we arent out of it yet
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Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>Arsenal are losing goals every game and so when their scoring spree dries up, they're going to be in trouble.</strong><hr></blockquote>Hardly. 9 goals conceded in 9 Prem games, with a GD of +15 and 2 Prem clean sheets. On top of that, the goals conceded against Sunderland, Leeds, WBA (2) have been when they were cruising. Let's just concentrate on winning all our games, not what the Arse are doing.
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Let's face it: your "little blip" has now reached it's 19th month and there really is no reason to think that it is over.

It started when you were cruising and winning the league easily in March 2000, got kicked out of the Champions League in the 1/4 Finals, Keane and SAF blasted the team and it all went wrong from there.

Bad tranfers, SAF losing it, Kidd/McLaren going, Keane going gaga...

You've lost it as a team, you will have great spells where you will be playing excellent football and banging in goals, but you've lost the mental edge that gave you the consistency. And once you've lost that as a team, it just doesn't come back.

You'll have the spells of the wounded animal striking back, the dying lion roaring one more time, nothing more than that.

Great sides that loose their winning ways never come back.

It'll be back to the drawing board for your new manager.

TRM.
 
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> when you listen to these scousers and Gillspie you get the feeling that it's a case of repeating the same shite over and over again it might just become true.

Don't count us in then if it makes you feel better but why not feck off to your own boards and do that eh?

We've got a fair share of world class players, only matched by Arsenal and we can compete with the best unlike the workmanlike scouse team. You can only get so far with mediocre material / young promising talents and a system that is a relict from the 70s.
 
Originally posted by AhmedDimwitson:
<strong> You can only get so far with mediocre material / young promising talents and a system that is a relict from the 70s.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you suggesting you can't win anything with kids?

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Seriously Ahmed,
The writing's on the wall. I know that deep down a lot of Utd fans feel it. Everyone feels it. You see: SAF has made two fatal mistakes.

1. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
2. If it's broke, fix it.

He destroyed your midfield by adding personnel that was not needed. He destroyed your defence by selling personnel that was needed, as he did with your attack, without proper replacements.

Allow me to draw a comparison with two periods in lfc's 70-80s reign.

1. In the middle of this period, LFC gradually replaced most of the team, without ever rocking the boat. This resulted in a new team that could prolong our reign untill the early 90s.

2. The early 90s: dogged by injuries, with both Hansen and Lawrenson having to put a premature end to their carreers, and bad tranfers, loss of spirit ("The Spice Boys") and bad management, LFC did not replace the old generation in the right way, resulting in a fall from grace that opened the door for you.

Your situation now is a perfect carbon copy of our early 90s. Many LFC fans just recognise it, it's a gut feeling.

In a way, I actually find what I see at United quite painful in a way, because it brings back so many painful memories of those days... The sheer disbelief, the false hope that it would all take a turn for the better soon.

And it just didn't happen...

TRM.
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Originally posted by The Red Machine:
<strong>

Your situation now is a perfect carbon copy of our early 90s. Many LFC fans just recognise it, it's a gut feeling.

TRM.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good organizations recognize their faults and correct them. Your club was mismanaged and failed to react / correct the faults. Not all organizations follow the same pattern, there are good and bad ones and nothing just happens. So to summarize because it happened to you, doesn't necessarily mean it will happen to us.

history has showed that all empires fall in the end but quite often after a dramatic event such as the death of someone important etc. Well, we still have the core of the very successful team with a couple of additions. The Veron deal might have disrupted that balance but we still have the option of playing the old midfield so this is not anything dramatic. Now we've added the best CB in England.

And we have yet to play Arsenal or you, 12 points from top opposition to take away. You are 4 ahead of us at the moment and have been anything but convincing so we can take them both home / away I recon. Arsenal could be a bigger problem and a top class performance will be required, but as we have world class players and if everything "clicks" we can beat any team on the right day even on Highbury.
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Originally posted by The Red Machine:
<strong>

Are you suggesting you can't win anything with kids?

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Seriously Ahmed,
The writing's on the wall. I know that deep down a lot of Utd fans feel it. Everyone feels it. You see: SAF has made two fatal mistakes.

1. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
2. If it's broke, fix it.

He destroyed your midfield by adding personnel that was not needed. He destroyed your defence by selling personnel that was needed, as he did with your attack, without proper replacements.

Allow me to draw a comparison with two periods in lfc's 70-80s reign.

1. In the middle of this period, LFC gradually replaced most of the team, without ever rocking the boat. This resulted in a new team that could prolong our reign untill the early 90s.

2. The early 90s: dogged by injuries, with both Hansen and Lawrenson having to put a premature end to their carreers, and bad tranfers, loss of spirit ("The Spice Boys") and bad management, LFC did not replace the old generation in the right way, resulting in a fall from grace that opened the door for you.

Your situation now is a perfect carbon copy of our early 90s. Many LFC fans just recognise it, it's a gut feeling.

In a way, I actually find what I see at United quite painful in a way, because it brings back so many painful memories of those days... The sheer disbelief, the false hope that it would all take a turn for the better soon.

And it just didn't happen...

TRM.</strong><hr></blockquote>

1, We havent replaced most of the team.

2, By "old generation", who do u mean? as far as im aware, we have great replacements for past players, RIO, O'SHEA are 2 examples.

Our situation is nothing like Liverpools, you had an aging squad, we dont.

We had a bad season last year, and imho the title was given to Arse by us through various mistakes, which hopefully have been rectified.

I do admit to a feeling of wondering at SAFs decisions in the past year regarding formation, but this has worked wonders in some games, The Deportivo game was on of the best performances from the Reds ive ever seen for example.

I think you are wishing that we will drift into obscurity like yr team did, but deep down, you know it wont happen.
:p
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Originally posted by AhmedDimwitson:
<strong>

Good organizations recognize their faults and correct them. Your club was mismanaged and failed to react / correct the faults. Not all organizations follow the same pattern, there are good and bad ones and nothing just happens. So to summarize because it happened to you, doesn't necessarily mean it will happen to us.

history has showed that all empires fall in the end but quite often after a dramatic event such as the death of someone important etc. </strong><hr></blockquote>

So you would say that United have not been mismanaged since 1999-2000? I would. As I said before: SAF killed off your midfield, decimated your front line, failed to fix your defence. It is true that you still have many of the players that got you there, however: they too have lost the edge and have now failed to recapture it for 19 months and counting. That's a long time...

I would say the opposite of empires: they fall slowly, but once the decline has reached a certain phase, it becomes irreversible. It started with you getting kicked out of the CL in 2000 and slowly wrong reactions have been followed by wrong decisions, wrong transfers, bad results, worse reactions, worse decisions, ill-adviced tactics, more wrong transfers, books and so on...

Compare your 1999 team to your current team. Compare the players that have come in to those who left (obviously using their 99 form for the former players). Compare the form the players that have stayed have shown over the last 19 months to the form they had from 95-99.

You've already fallen very deep and it just seems your fall is gaining momentum, despite your purchase of Rio...

TRM.
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Originally posted by The Red Machine:
<strong>


You've already fallen very deep and it just seems your fall is gaining momentum, despite your purchase of Rio...

TRM.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fair enough, the other side of the coin that the main competitors want to belive. Pure speculation I say and more of a case of wanting to belive this because you dislike United so greatly. These days you can even read good stories where the authors seriously claim that the yanks never landed on the moon because they hate that country so much. Envy is not a quality to be proud of.
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Seems to me we're gaining momentum the other way. And we reached the semis of the CL last year.

A lot of the bad results that you allude to come from a change of focus. We're now geared towards winning the Champions League again. That's the reason for all the recent purchases and they've done their job to a certain degree. Unfortunately the league results have been shit, but ultimately we've not won enough in Europe, and that has to be the priority.

The only wrong transfer that I've seen in the last 18 months is the sale of Stam. Veron is starting to show what he can do (IMO he already did last year against Deportivo), Forlan may be turning the corner, and there hasn't been any doubt about Rio has there?

Sounds like you read the papers and reproduced everything here.

Don't blame you for your opinions, I wouldn't presume to know about Liverpool myself, besides what I read in the papers. That's all shit anyway, so I wouldn't post it on any bulletin board.
 
Originally posted by AhmedDimwitson:
<strong>

Fair enough, the other side of the coin that the main competitors want to belive. Pure speculation I say and more of a case of wanting to belive this because you dislike United so greatly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's were you're wrong, Ahmed. It do not hate Manchester United. I'm a Liverpoolfan, yes. I hope Liverpool do well, but I want LFC to win things because they are good, not because the rest are shite.

It is much more of an achievement to beat great sides than it is to beat piss-poor losers. Moreover: it is much more of an achievement to finish second with 90 points than it is to win the league with 75. It is to me, anyway.

I feel like I'm reading identical comments from the ones I read this time last year. Just replace 'Rio' by 'Seba'. Arsenal have since become a much stronger team and I feel that we have too. We've not scored this many goals since the Evans-era. Sure, we've conceded goals too, but we've got a +11 goal-average after 9 games. We've finished seasons with +21 over the last few years, so that surely is an improvement?

Spinoza,
None of it comes from the papers. Having moved away from Ireland/the UK this summer I haven't read any of the local papers. It's all just based on the games I've seen and memories. I agree that most of the stuff in the papers is nonsense. But facts are facts...

TRM.
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Originally posted by Cantona:
<strong>

The fact that Liverpool has more history and championships means nothing, all that matters is a teams current form, and Man Utd are now back to their winning ways, and with Roy keane coming back soon aswell it looks like we might have one of the most competitive seasons we've had in a while.

PS. make that two good decades, remember the Matt Busby era?</strong><hr></blockquote>Im sure when Keane comes back everything will be calm again.
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Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>Yes...that's right njred. Liverpool Football Club. 0 Premierships - 0 Champions Leagues - One plastic treble. etc.

Come back when you win something respectable.</strong><hr></blockquote>Sorry,I keep forgetting football started in the 90s.
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Originally posted by njred:
<strong>We have beaten united 5 times in a row.We came ahead of you last year in the league.And your team is in turmoil.Besides the fact we have more history and championships.I'd have to say its pretty clear your time has come and gone.1 good decade out of ten wasn't bad though for united.
:) </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yet at the end you won shit. I think You had a chance and did not take it, because simply you will always be second best, if not to us then the arse, and nobody remember who finishes second.
Even if things changed in football, we will always be up there, since we are richer and money talks. It is always been this way for us in the Last 11-12 years, we win 2-3 times then we lose our Hunger and determination for a yr then we dominate again, and I think it will be the same, but fortunatley Livershit are not good enough to take advantage and that suit us fine. :D
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Originally posted by ALGred:
<strong>
Yet at the end you won shit. I think You had a chance and did not take it, because simply you will always be second best, if not to us then the arse, and nobody remember who finishes second.
Even if things changed in football, we will always be up there, since we are richer and money talks. It is always been this way for us in the Last 11-12 years, we win 2-3 times then we lose our Hunger and determination for a yr then we dominate again, and I think it will be the same, but fortunatley Livershit are not good enough to take advantage and that suit us fine. :D </strong><hr></blockquote>Like I said football must have started 12 years ago.Your post just proved what most people think on here.No credit to any other team before the 90's.Even one that (yes believe it or not)are more succesfull than united.You can look it up.Or go ask someone.
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Originally posted by Gillespie:
<strong>

Normally,we regard the league champions as the best team in England and on current form there is no reason to contradict that......don't you agree ??</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh absolutely Gill...absolutely...

<img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
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Originally posted by Gillespie:
<strong>

Normally,we regard the league champions as the best team in England and on current form there is no reason to contradict that......don't you agree ??</strong><hr></blockquote>

:D Absolutely.

This one goes to the classics!
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We have a many super substitutes on bench especially Forlan.And thank god we have Veron playing for us.Thought the defence wasn't enough to make me happy,but luckily they r still young and very promising.And the brilliance of Sir Alex Ferguson!!

But it all comes from 1 word -- DETERMINATION
 
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

OMG! omg! davo, njred, trm, and gilleswank, come here and have a beer with us. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Originally posted by Gillespie:
<strong>

I agree with you that it would be foolish to rule the Mancs out completely.My own view is that the title will either go to us again or maybe you lot....I just don't see the Mancs doing it,they have the whiff of a once great team in decline.They'll still finish third ,though.I just find it amazing how blind the Mancs are to the failings of their current team and this belief they have that everything will come good again and Man Utd will be back again in their 'rightful' place at the top of the league.It's just wishful thinking and I ,for one,will welcome the enforced humility they will have to show after some more trophy-less years.</strong><hr></blockquote>

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