Reality-Monopoly Draft - R1: RedTiger vs Enigma

With players at peak, who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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...................................... TEAM REDTIGER .................................................................................. TEAM ENIGMA ......................................

Team REDTIGER

Team Roles

Samir Handanović - Goalkeeper

Claudio Gentile -CB
Jaap Stam - CB

Fernando Rendono - DM
Jean Tigana - Defensive B2B
Clarence Seedorf - Attacking B2B

Jose Antonio Camacho - LB
Orvar Bergmark - RB

Paulo Futre - LW
Gabriel Batistuta - CF
Luis Enrique - RW

Subs - Stuart Pearce, feliciano rivilla, Thomas Helveg

I shall be playing a direct 4-3-3.

In defence i have a quick and strong core in Stam and Gentile, they are also flexible enough to deal with a variety of attackers. The full backs are also well rounded and will support the centre backs.

The team will play through Redondo, rated as one of the best deep lying playmakers off all time. Next to him are Seedorf and Tigana who will play the box to box role. Both are tenacious defenders as well as offering fantastic attacking outlets. They are also very good on the ball and with Redondo will be able to retain possession and dominate the midfield.

In attack, Futre will come inside as a second striker with Enrique pushing forward on the other wing when in possession or falling back to midfield when not in attack. Seedorf will be expected to cover the runs of both Camacho and Futre on the left , a hard job but no-one better qualified to carry it out due to his work rate and high energy levels. Upfront is Batistuta who will be feeding off all the great ball players behind him, whether it be through the centre or down the wings.


Team ENIGMA

Formation: 4-3-3
Defensive line: Normal
Style: Counter attacking - direct style

Players:

GK: Harry Gregg
- one of the best keepers in United history. Over his 35 year career as a player and a manager, Harry Gregg achieved more than most. He was a part of the famous "Busby Babes" for almost 10 years, was voted the best 'keeper in the world after his heroics for Northern Ireland in the World Cup in 1958, and for a time he was the most expensive goalkeeper in the world. Gregg beat the likes of Yashin and Beara at the time for the best gk at WC accolade.

LB: Joan Capdevila - Balanced full back who is solid in defence but also contributes going forward. Ever-present throughout the ultimate victorious World Cup Finals campaign. He was also the only player who started the final that did not represent either Real Madrid or Barcelona. Won the EURO's 2 years prior as undisputed starter in the golden era of Spanish football.

RB: Eric Gerets - One of the best full backs in the 80's Gerets was tough, disciplined and tactically shrewd right back. Considered to be one of the greatest players in Belgian football history and at his peak he was regarded as one of the best right-backs in Europe. His contribution to PSVs success is immeasurable; he provided the stability season after season and this allowed the club to build on their success. The bravery, courage and heart he offered on the pitch earned him a nickname: “The Lion (of Flanders)”.

CB: Jürgen Kohler - When you are looking at the greatest players in certain position you can't look further than Kohler in the stopper role. EURO champion in '96, world champion in '90. CL winner with Dortmund, 3 times Bundesliga winner and once Seria A winner in its heyday. He won it all on club and international level while fending off the best forwards in the game. Kohler was dubbed a Fussballgott when he ended Eric Cantona's United run in Champions League semifinal in 97. His duels with Marco van Basten during the 1988 tournament will never be forgotten. Coming out of the famous Mannheimer Schule, Kohler was a rock-solid defender, and much more than that. Interesting fact about Jurgen Kohler is in all his games with Juve or Germany, Marco van Basten never scored against him.


CB: Rio Ferdinand - arguably the best CB in United history, he formed a rock solid partnership with Vidic, wining more than 10 titles with United in it's best days domestically and in Europe.

DM: Claude Makélélé - Rarely you name a position or a role after a player, but Makelele made the DM position his own over the last 15 years or so. He was a class act who brought success everywhere he went, albeit not the most shiny name on the team sheet. Some quotes from Martin Samuel when Chelsea won the title in 2006, yet Makelele wasn't nominated for the player of the year award:

The best team in the country is driven by the instincts and quick-thinking of not so much a midfield enforcer, as a ninja. So good, so deadly, he is almost invisible.

Take Makelele from Chelsea and it would be like losing half a team.

He protects the back four, breaks up play in midfield and gets the ball to his team-mates quickly.

There are those who think he is merely a destroyer. Look again. Better still, ask his peers. They have a players' player award at Stamford Bridge, too — and guess who won it this year?

When Chelsea played Barcelona, the battle in midfield was awesome. Deco was extraordinary.

Lampard was tested beyond his limit. Makelele was entirely in his element. The tougher it got, the better he played.

On the rare occasions Michael Essien has been used in his position, witness the difference.

There is a two-second delay while Essien computes his pass. Makelele never needs that.

CM - B2B - Mário Coluna - a complete midfielder, energetic, with enormous work rate and solid defensively. True leader in the best Benfica team alongside Eusebio and one of the all time greats in his position.

AM/Playmaker - Luis Suárez Miramontes - The Architect" Luis Suarez Miramontes is regarded as the greatest Spanish footballer of all-time and the best European midfielder in the early 1960s, is one of the greatest midfielders in history of European Cup. Luis Suarez is also one of the best passers ever. He was the great organizers of the classic era. Not content to direct from a distance, he help modernized the forward-looking more free-ranging creative midfielder and known as his elegant movement. He was also noted for his perceptive passing and explosive shot. Suárez first played as an inside left for Barcelona and in 1960 he became the only Spanish-born player to date to have won Ballon D’or awards. In 1961 Suárez became the world's most expensive footballer when Barcelona sold him to Inter Milan where he was an equally prominent member of the legendary Great Inter side of the 1960s as a deep-lying playmaker. He retired as a player after the last three seasons at Sampdoria. Luis Suarez also finished fourth place Ballon'Dor in 1959.

LW: Rob Rensenbrink - The hit-man went by many nicknames. At various times they called him ‘the snake man’, ‘the serpent’ and ‘the contortionist’ but today, those names are a distant memory. To those he worked alongside, he was one of the all time greats. Around this time, teammates described watching the silent Rensenbrink during training sessions and describing his movement and skill as art. More beautiful, in fact; more precise. By all accounts, watching Robbie in these sessions were akin to peering into the Leonardo’s sketch books; the smooth, elegant way of releasing the ball or his dribbling technique when he retained it. When not in possession; quick acceleration, his movement off the ball and ability to find space met with comparisons to George Best. Rensenbrink was lethal in front of the goal with 208 goals in 467 matches in a very strong at the time Belgian league, achieving great success with Anderlecht and also the Netherlands, whilst finishing 2nd and 3rd in Ballon D'or ahead of the likes of Platini, Cruyff and Gerd Muller.

RW: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge - One of the best forwards in the game, who needs no introduction. Scoring more than 300 goals in his career and winning almost everything for club and country, along with 2 Ballon D'ors to boot.


CF: David Villa - Probably the greatest Spanish striker of all time. Probably Acebal the Sporting Gijón former manaeger describes him best - the key to his game is his movement – desmarques de rotura, the ability suddenly to shake off defenders, made him stand out.

At his peak he played for Valencia side which was inferior to the giants Real and Barca but individually he was a terrific footballer a quote from 2009:

He has scored free-kicks, headers, volleys, chips and screechers. There is a certain obsessiveness about him. "I can't remember every goal," he says, "but if I sat down with a pen and a piece of paper, I'm sure I'd remember most of them." There are a hell of a lot to remember. There are 168 league goals, despite not playing for one of the country's very best sides. Valencia have finished fifth, 10th, fourth and third in the seasons Villa has spent there; Zaragoza were 12th twice. Over the last five years, only Samuel Eto'o has scored more goals than him. And Eto'o only has six more – in a team that racked up 129 more than Villa's sides. Then there's the fact that for most of that time he has taken Valencia's corners and free-kicks – and however good a player is he can't head in his own crosses.


Player roles:


GK: Gregg - excellent shot stopper, controlling his own box.
LB: Capdevila - balanced full back contributing in both phases
RB: Gerets - balanced full back contributing in both phases
CB: Kohler - stopper
CB: Ferdinand - ball playing defender
DM: Makelele - breaking up attacks, getting back the ball and protecting the back four.
B2B: Coluna - Box to box midfielder contributing in both phases
AM: Luis Suárez Miramontes - All action midfielder and main playmaker of the side - controls the tempo and flow of the game
LW: Rob Rensenbrink - great dribbler that can stretch the opponent and provide Villa/Kalle with assists, but also finish himself given his great goalscoring output.
RW: Kalle Rummenigge - right wing forward - beating opposing defenders with his high speed, physical power and technical abilities and excellent finishing abilities to boot.
CF: Villa - Complete striker with top notch movement and excellent finishing

Key Points:
- Excellent defensive unit protected by one of the best in that role(Makelele). Rio and Kohler is actually an upgrade on the Rio/Vida partnership with Kohler taking Vida's place as probably the best stopper in the game.
- complimentary midfield full of steel, determination, creativity and passing ability
- deadly on counters with Kalle and Rensenbrink on each wing complimented by overlapping full backs.
- Complete center forward in Villa who also can make space for both wingers/wing forwards to attack the box.
- a fluid front three that will interchange positions all the time while also providing tremendous support to their midfield as every single on of them is very good defensive wise and has a great work ethic
 
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To kick it off a little piece on Kohler - :

For fans of a certain generation Jürgen Kohler represents, along with Lillian Thuram & Paolo Montero, one of the greatest foreign defenders ever to play for Juventus. With a tradition of having the best Italian defenders available it takes an extremely talented player for la Vecchia Signora to look further afield when it comes to reinforcing the back line.

In the early 1990’s Juve were trying in vain to overhaul the dominance of Arrigo Sacchi’s Milan side, perhaps the greatest club team ever assembled. With the revolutionary tactics of the coach, & the goals of Marco Van Basten, the Rossoneri looked invincible & then Juve President Giampiero Boniperti knew he had to help his club topple Berlusconi’s machine.

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During both the European Championships of 1988 & the World Cup of 1990, Kohler had come closer than anyone to nullifying the threat of Van Basten & Juventus quickly added the Bayern München defender to their squad in the summer of 1991. By then he had already won both the World Cup & Bundesliga titles, having made his International debut aged just 20.

He made his professional debut two years before that at SV Waldhof Mannheim, before moving to FC Köln then catching the eye of the Munich giants. Kohler’s ability to read the game & intelligent closing down of attackers, his formidable tackling & imperious heading all contributed to making him one of the best defenders of his era. The German also had an impressive goal scoring record for a defender, with 36 to his name.

With Kohler settled into the team, he formed an excellent defensive unit with men like Ciro Ferrara, Massimo Carrera & Andrea Fortunato. First came a UEFA Cup win in 1993, then an Italian Cup victory in 1995. That was also the year Juve finally overcame Milan, winning the league by ten points, with Kohler playing a vital role in all three victories.

It was sadly his last season in Turin, as he moved back to Germany, joining Borussia Dortmund, the team Juventus defeated in that 1993 Final. There he won another league title in his very first season. His second year would be even better, helping his new club to the Champions League Final & coming full circle to face Juventus. Impressive in the 3-1 win he would play another six years for Dortmund, winning another league title, the Intercontinental Cup & a UEFA Cup.

But perhaps as much as his impressive displays for Juventus, fans will remember the German for something he did following that Champions League win in 1997. Collecting the trophy & his medal, he displayed affection for his former club, wearing a Bianconeri scarf given to him during the lap of honour. A true gesture of lo Spirito Juve he embodied, & for that Jürgen Kohler will always be a Juve legend.

In terms of defensive abilities such as tackling, marking and heading; Kohler probably is the best German defender of all time. He played for the German national team in the 1986-1998 period, helping his country win the World Cup 1990 and Euro 1996. Kohler's toughness even made many best strikers in the world, such as Van Basten and Maradona, feel overwhelmed.
 
Both sides look really good here, but my word, Enigma's side looks so exciting! :drool:

All-rounded threats from Kalle and Rensenbrink. Luisito causing all sorts of problems for Enigma from the midfield, and Mario Coluna in there to top it all off.

RedTiger's midfield is really good as well, but for me, the wide threat seems sort of limited. Even though Batistuta is there to link up and get Lucho into good goalscoring positions, the team being way too central will be a bit of a problem for them, particularly as the full backs aren't that enterprising going forward.
 
Both teams have employed a direct style. Comparing their midfield, I find Enigma's team more suited to it. Those wingers aren't bad either.
 
Both sides look really good here, but my word, Enigma's side looks so exciting! :drool:

All-rounded threats from Kalle and Rensenbrink. Luisito causing all sorts of problems for Enigma from the midfield, and Mario Coluna in there to top it all off.

RedTiger's midfield is really good as well, but for me, the wide threat seems sort of limited. Even though Batistuta is there to link up and get Lucho into good goalscoring positions, the team being way too central will be a bit of a problem for them, particularly as the full backs aren't that enterprising going forward.

Cheers mate, I'm particularly happy with our CB pair. Rio/Kohler is absolute immense pairing that is also very complimentary, especially with also Makelele covering in front of them.

Picking Kalle in the 5th or 6th round was really a lifeline seeing that we've lost Iniesta and Eto'o in the rounds before.
 
Great effort by @RedTiger, but @Enigma_87's side is simply flawless (with understandable exception of Capdevila, who still looks good here).
 
I'm losing this badly at the moment :(

Is it because of the direct style?

Player for player, I found your midfield better if anything. But the direct style suits enigma's team more imo.

I also found the front three a bit lacking creatively, especially since you mentioned Futre as the second striker. Perhaps take off a midfielder for a number ten?
 
I'm losing this badly at the moment :(

Is it because of the direct style?
Score is pretty close tbh mate and still very early in the game.

Think direct style actually suits your players more than possession. It will be down to the voters which team are more fond of and probably complimentary pairings, style etc as we're using the same formation basically :)
 
Two lovely crafted sides.

The midfield of RedTiger and the attack of Enigma/Sjor are bang on the money.
 
Two lovely crafted sides.

The midfield of RedTiger and the attack of Enigma/Sjor are bang on the money.
Cheers mate.

I'm going to shamefully take some of your gifs for Luisito to underline his overall game and absolute quality on the ball :)

El Arquitecto vs USSR in Euro 1964 final (the one with the bandage on his arm for identification purposes)
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(Wins the ball, playing a one-two before pinging a :drool: that is well intercepted by Yashin)

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(Plays a nice one-two befuddling the Soviet midfielder before playing a nice pass)

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(Wins the ball, plays another nifty one-two and crosses accurately for the opening goal)

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(Intercepts the initial pass and closes down ferociously to hurry the Soviet midfielder into a bad pass)

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(Wins the ball once more and hold on to possession)

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(Once again regains possession from the Soviets and looks for a 1-2 with a direct and pacy run out wide)

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(Tackles the ball out for a throw in)

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(Exhibiting his defensive nous - senses the danger and makes an intelligent defensive run to cut out a defense splitting pass. Watch how he doesn't close down the player on the ball like most players do, but tracks the runner like the intelligent player he is.)

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(Reacts first to the knock down ahead of the Soviet midfielder and progresses forward with the ball)

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(Another raking ball of his)

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(Another tackle)

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(Remarkable recovery speed to win the ball again to cut out a promising counter...)

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(makes a well timed cheeky back heel which culminates in a goalscoring chance)
 
and part two - again courtesy of
@Joga Bonito

Some serious :drool: moments in this segment.

Just look at him - he is as complete as they come. Intercepting balls, playing long balls from a deeper area, going forward intelligently only when it was required to supplement Pareda and Amancio - instead of being an unwanted presence hindering his attacking players, tackling, dribbling from out wide, playing 1-2s and most importantly being where the situation needs him to be. He wasn't hogging the ball, solely playing one-twos/passes like a Pirlo/Xavi, he wasn't purely attacking/dribbling like an AM and he wasn't just doing defensive work like a pure DM. He was doing all off the above in fine balance. Seriously, he is one of the most tactically accomplished, malleable and complete players of all time and people criminally seem to overlook quite a few of his qualities. There are a few players that you watch and you think - now there is a tactical mastermind at work like Xavi/Scholes etc. Suarez was exactly that but an all-round package as opposed to his average playmaking contemporaries. You could place 10 dogs or 10 Maradonas around him and he'll still function beautifully.

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(After another :drool: pass, doesn't stand idle admiring his work but rather makes a decoy run to take away the marker, resulting in room for the shot)

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(That feckin technique :eek:)

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(Gets to the ball first and looks for a quick one-two with yet another rapid off the ball run)

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(Oh boy :drool:)

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(Jinxes past 2 players before finding the winger in space which results in a dangerous cross)

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(Wins the ball before doing a 'Clodaoaldo')

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(Immense work rate and recovery speed to win the ball back in a dangerous situation)

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(Pings another glorious ball which should have resulted in a penalty but was't given)

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(Another incisive long ball (I'm running out of words :lol:) which results in a good chance)

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(Goes on his trademark mazy run)

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(Leaves a Soviet midfielder on his arse)
 
Both teams are really well set up here, but Enigma has the edge in match-winning quality and flair in attack and has that wonderfully complementary centre back partnership.

Interesting fact about Jurgen Kohler is in all his games with Juve or Germany, Marco van Basten never scored against him.

Although this is definitely incorrect :D.



 
Player for player, I found your midfield better if anything
Interesting. I personally think that midfields are pretty much even - with Suarez clearly ahead of the rest (wait until Aldo sees it), and Makelele slightly behind
 
Both teams are really well set up here, but Enigma has the edge in match-winning quality and flair in attack and has that wonderfully complementary centre back partnership.



Although this is definitely incorrect :D.





Damnit, saw it as a peculiar fact on couple of places and was a remarkable achievement but didn't verify it as both played a lot of games. Can't trust the internet these days.

and also here:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jürgen-kohler.362103/
 
Very good side by Tiger, midfield is fantastic, attack is pretty good and the only thing that i dont really like is defence or to be exact CB pair. Two proper stoppers suit our attack perfectly and their movement is going to be to much for them to handle even with 2 defensive fullbacks next to them.

With two defensive or to say two fullbacks that arent that great offensive wise our front three will have a lot of time and space to help out around tiger's midfield and with all 3 being fantastic defensive wise that is a huge advantage.
@Annahnomoss maybe im wrong about Bergmark being a defensive fullback, you probably know the best so help out :)
 
Interesting. I personally think that midfields are pretty much even - with Suarez clearly ahead of the rest (wait until Aldo sees it), and Makelele slightly behind
Would you change your mind if I dropped Futre and played a 5131? Ie.

Rivilla---camacho---Stam---Gentile---Bergmark
Redondo
Enrique---Tigana---Seedorf
Batistuta
 
Would you change your mind if I dropped Futre and played a 5131? Ie.

Rivilla---camacho---Stam---Gentile---Bergmark
Redondo
Enrique---Tigana---Seedorf
Batistuta
My mind about personal comparisons between midfielders? Unlikely.
My mind about the game? No, your original team is much better, plus you can't drop Futre anyway (plus I think that the subs aren't allowed even if it wasn't your assigned player) — but I still like Enigma's more; not even tactically, but player for player Rensenbrink-Rummenigge > Futre-Enrique, plus the complimentary nature of Kohler-Rio
 
he also made a video for him :)


@RedTiger dont think you can drop Futre in first game :)


Amazing performance and it's hard to find such industrious and tactically versatile playmakers.



Here's another performance by him for those interested.

Interesting. I personally think that midfields are pretty much even - with Suarez clearly ahead of the rest (wait until Aldo sees it), and Makelele slightly behind

:lol: Surely he's not going to contests that but then again he places him in the same tier as Matthäus and Rijkaard so nvm...
 
For me I prefer Red Tiger's midfield. I think it would work especially well against Makelele by exposing his weaknesses.

But Kohler and Ferdinand are ideal to shutting down Batigoal while Tiger's backline just doesn't have the right combination of skills to shut down Enigma's attack.
 
For me I prefer Red Tiger's midfield. I think it would work especially well against Makelele by exposing his weaknesses.

But Kohler and Ferdinand are ideal to shutting down Batigoal while Tiger's backline just doesn't have the right combination of skills to shut down Enigma's attack.
Yeah, it's a monster midfield while making Makelele (a #10 specialist) a bit surplus to requirements relative to, say, Mauro Silva. But Enigma is just too strong across the board.
 
so many votes yet so little comments....
 
For me I prefer Red Tiger's midfield. I think it would work especially well against Makelele by exposing his weaknesses.

But Kohler and Ferdinand are ideal to shutting down Batigoal while Tiger's backline just doesn't have the right combination of skills to shut down Enigma's attack.

While defending Makelele covers anyone that comes inside his zone and surely people would get inside the final third, most likely Lucho from the right so its not really Makelele will stand in his zone with hands in his pocket just because he isnt against a proper number 10.

Offensive wise he will sit deep and keep it simple, providing insurance so Suarez and Coluna can bomb forward freely....
 
Redondo-Tigana-Seedorf is a robust & superb midfield that would provide the front 3 with a lot of freedom. However, this midfield lacks goalscoring capacities so you need 3 other guys capable to score a lot.... in a context of a 'Redcafe Fantasy Draft'

Futre can play on the left and right wings. He's left-footed so it would have been great to have deployed him on the right so that he can cut inside and score more goals. >> See the European Cup final in 1987 where Futre was MOTM by playing on the right.

Another interesting game




>>> Futre as a right-winger could have been an option.
 
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Luis Enrique version 97-98: career peak in terms of stats (25 goals in 47 games)
I understand he was one of the 3 central midfielders because of Figo on the right & Rivaldo on the left.

I would have removed Tigana or Seedorf and built the following midfield

----------------- Batistuta
---- Futre/?? ------------------------- ??/ Futre
---- Tigana/Seedorf ---- Luis Enrique version 97/98
--------------- Redondo

I don't know if you have another winger on the bench.
 
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Yeah, it's a monster midfield while making Makelele (a #10 specialist) a bit surplus to requirements relative to, say, Mauro Silva. But Enigma is just too strong across the board.

Its interesting because each side has one generation's premier man-marker type. But each team has the personnel and tactic which minimizes the influence of a man-marker type defender. I don't see either Gentile or Makelele having a good game here.
 
Its interesting because each side has one generation's premier man-marker type. But each team has the personnel and tactic which minimizes the influence of a man-marker type defender. I don't see either Gentile or Makelele having a good game here.

Im sorry but since when is Makelele a man marking specialist? Can he man mark, sure he can but more then 90% of his career or his peak he didnt do that and just played like a proper DM/holding midfielder how ever you want to call that position/role.

Same probably goes for Gentile, not the biggest fan of his but just because he did a job on Diego, Zico and who ever that doesnt mean he would be lost without that task.
 
Im sorry but since when is Makelele a man marking specialist? Can he man mark, sure he can but more then 90% of his career or his peak he didnt do that and just played like a proper DM/holding midfielder how ever you want to call that position/role.

Same probably goes for Gentile, not the biggest fan of his but just because he did a job on Diego, Zico and who ever that doesnt mean he would be lost without that task.

Well Gentile more did the job on Diego and Platini than Zico ;) but that's where their skill set is the strongest.

I understand your point but I just don't see Makelele excelling against this midfield. Nor do I see Gentile-Stam being well suited to match up against Rensenbrink-Villa-Rummenigge
 
I understand your point but I just don't see Makelele excelling against this midfield. Nor do I see Gentile-Stam being well suited to match up against Rensenbrink-Villa-Rummenigge

Is there any other issue except this crap that he wont have anyone to man mark? :)
Just to keep "debate" going a bit because the the game is dead....