Sure, he's a superb player with a high work-rate. My post was rather about Sjor, so polemical-intended
Reality-Monopoly Draft - QF: Enigma vs Skizzo
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
Sure, he's a superb player with a high work-rate. My post was rather about Sjor, so polemical-intended
Beckham is better than Boniek at those apsects without a shadow of doubt and I can't think of too many players better than Beckham for that zona mista RM role. Also Neville's overlapping always tends to be over-emphasised when it comes to Beckham's game
As I mentioned above, the benefit to beckham as opposed to others, is that he wouldn't necessarily have to push all the way up to be effective. Having him slightly more withdrawn gives him the ability to pressure defensively, as well as drawing Capdevilla out of his LB spot if he wants to try and shut down his service.
I'm also not solely relying on him as a main creative outlet as implied above. Playing in a counter attacking system means we will look to spring forward quickly when the opportunity arrives. Dasayev, Popescu, Xabi Alonso and Beckham all offer incisive passing from deep, or have the ability to play the simpler pass when the long ball isn't on.
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As much as that Neville-Beckham flank was a joy to watch, I honestly think that partnership benefited Neville more so than it did Beckham. The opposition was so concerned about Beckham's deliveries, it gave Neville that extra little by of space or time to make the run. Additionally, he knew he could commit to that overlap because he knew Beckham was so industrious, he'd cover him if he was caught out of position.
Gone for Skizzo. I think Enigma team lacks goal threat to overcome the back 3 of Skizzo. Rensenbrink/Burgnich should be tasty. Also don't like Nedved in a 4-3-3. He's better off as a orchestrator in a deeper role. A more attacking WF would have been nice for Enigma.
Expect RvN to sneak one in off a Becks cross.
Expect RvN to sneak one in off a Becks cross.
No problem if you like to play with words.
You and Skizzo tell the same story: a Super Beckham supposed to own the whole flank.
I don't criticize anybody or any choice >> it just makes me smile to see you having a double-speak
nah, its a really poor attempt of a dig but i dont mind
What i said in both threads, Becks can easily play as a wingback at highest level therefor he wont be a liability but in no way shape or form he will be on the same level or better then his right mid version where he was best winger in the world and IMO pretty much everything you want from a winger, perfect player.
Have to disagree on that baisis. Think there is a lot more goal scoring threat coming through Rensenbrink, Villa, Nedved and Luisito than Kaka and RVN who are the biggest threats on the pitch for Skizzo personally.
There is also a lot more diversity in our attack and Skizzo's forwards are up against the best CB's on the pitch in Rio and Kohler.
Also Nedved vs de Boer I think we have a pretty good edge and the Czech should come on top.
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If you have the time, definitely worth a watch, if for no other reason just to remember what it's like having an absolutely clinical striker at United.
A few Beckham deliveries to Ruud to the back of the net.
The fourth goal in particular, against Newcastle, highlight his ability to find that little bit of space with a defender on his back and still find the net. Look how many of his goals come from one clinical touch to finish a chance.
A few Beckham deliveries to Ruud to the back of the net.
The fourth goal in particular, against Newcastle, highlight his ability to find that little bit of space with a defender on his back and still find the net. Look how many of his goals come from one clinical touch to finish a chance.
Sometimes we forget(i know i had before this draft) how brilliant Villa was as a pure striker, absolute beast....
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which is funny is its own right as I'm sure no one doubts Villa and Ruud's abilities to score anyway. Always worth watching them again though.Come on. It's just Villa and Resnebrink. I wouldn't consider Nedved and Luisito as goal threats. They score goals, not an wide forward threat. With Burgnich on Rensenbrink, Villa might get the bulk responsibility.
On paper yes but with Gerets free as a bird on the right(still think thats the biggest mismatch on the pitch, Gerest vs nobody) the goal threat of both Suarez and specially Nedved raises in this particular match up. If Tigana doesnt help both Gerets and Nedved will run rings around Bossis and eventually against De Boer. If Tigana helps, then opens up the space in midfield where Suarez operates with the help of Rensenbrink.
Either way, Gerets is the key man and in our opinion he has the quality to win us the game with either his actions or even with movement.
A bit on the goalscoring options in both teams and the respective defences, to back up the more variety in our attack.
We have 2 wide goalscoring options in Nedved and Rensenbrink:
Rensenbrink has scored more than 250 goals for club and country in his career and at his best scored over 20 goals in 6 consecutive seasons winning the CWC twice (with 2 Super cups where he scored 3 goals).
At his best he was leading goalscorer for his team in a very tough Belgian championship and in Europe as well.
In 1976 when he won the Onze D'or and was runner up in Ballon D'or he scored 31 goals in 44 matches.
Nedved has had 4 seasons with 10 or more goals(in all comps) in a tough Seria A league and was leading goalscorer for Juve in their CL run in 02/03.
For Villa - There are 168 league goals, despite not playing for one of the country's very best sides. Valencia have finished fifth, 10th, fourth and third in the seasons Villa has spent there; Zaragoza were 12th twice. Over the last five years, only Samuel Eto'o has scored more goals than him. And Eto'o only has six more – in a team that racked up 129 more than Villa's sides.
There are of course Luisito and Coluna who both have scored over 100 goals for club and country in their careers.
As it stands we have 5 different goalscoring routes on the pitch but IMO most importantly is that all of them can beat the keeper from outside the box and are notorious for their long range accuracy and scoring outside the box which would help when Skizzo is camped in his box.
On the other side I think it's safe to say that Kaka and RvN are Skizzo's best goalscoring threats and RvN is up against probably the best marker in history, whilst also being a perfect fit for his physical and no-nonsense style at the back.
We also have plenty of bodies to handle Kaka and solid defenders like Rio, Gerets whilst also aided by Netto when handling him
Going by the game mechanics I think we have an advantage when it comes to defence vs attack in both phases and we should win this one.
We have 2 wide goalscoring options in Nedved and Rensenbrink:
Rensenbrink has scored more than 250 goals for club and country in his career and at his best scored over 20 goals in 6 consecutive seasons winning the CWC twice (with 2 Super cups where he scored 3 goals).
At his best he was leading goalscorer for his team in a very tough Belgian championship and in Europe as well.
In 1976 when he won the Onze D'or and was runner up in Ballon D'or he scored 31 goals in 44 matches.
Nedved has had 4 seasons with 10 or more goals(in all comps) in a tough Seria A league and was leading goalscorer for Juve in their CL run in 02/03.
For Villa - There are 168 league goals, despite not playing for one of the country's very best sides. Valencia have finished fifth, 10th, fourth and third in the seasons Villa has spent there; Zaragoza were 12th twice. Over the last five years, only Samuel Eto'o has scored more goals than him. And Eto'o only has six more – in a team that racked up 129 more than Villa's sides.
There are of course Luisito and Coluna who both have scored over 100 goals for club and country in their careers.
As it stands we have 5 different goalscoring routes on the pitch but IMO most importantly is that all of them can beat the keeper from outside the box and are notorious for their long range accuracy and scoring outside the box which would help when Skizzo is camped in his box.
On the other side I think it's safe to say that Kaka and RvN are Skizzo's best goalscoring threats and RvN is up against probably the best marker in history, whilst also being a perfect fit for his physical and no-nonsense style at the back.
We also have plenty of bodies to handle Kaka and solid defenders like Rio, Gerets whilst also aided by Netto when handling him
Going by the game mechanics I think we have an advantage when it comes to defence vs attack in both phases and we should win this one.
And Skizzo's are Kaka and RvN?
Kaka has 120 odd goals for Milan and Real in 400 games and never past the 20 goals mark in a season in all comps. Are those numbers that for off Nedved really? Considering he took penos and FK's as well?
Burgnich on Rensenbrink is a fair match up, but Nedved and de Boer and Villa vs Popescu is IMO in our favor.
On the other end I'd like Kohler chances against Ruud - and him getting the better of Ruud whilst Kaka has plenty of bodies to handle him like Rio, Netto, Gerets, etc..
Not to mention Beckham supporting the flank when Capdevila goes forward and Gerets doubling on de Boer when we're on the ball.
So does Beckham.
For Villa - There are 168 league goals, despite not playing for one of the country's very best sides. Valencia have finished fifth, 10th, fourth and third in the seasons Villa has spent there; Zaragoza were 12th twice. Over the last five years, only Samuel Eto'o has scored more goals than him. And Eto'o only has six more – in a team that racked up 129 more than Villa's sides.[/quote]
Which still pales in comparison to Ruud's peak where he averages .71 goals a game.
Souness has 99 for club and country. Popescu has 84.
Deep line with counter attacking set up doesn't mean we camp in our box and let you pop off shots all game. Especially when Alonso, Souness and Tigana will all be hounding you.
So you have Kohler man marking Ruud and apparently Netto, Gerets, Coluna all on Ferdinand at different points? How do you expect to organize that when we're countering? You can't just hand him off to someone else while we attack, so there'd be confusion and open runners coming in. You're not the only one with shooters from the outside, with Beckham, Alonso and Souness all around.
We also have plenty of bodies to handle your attackers. Your argument is you outnumber is in both phases by having extra people on Kaka and Ruud, and then have your open players on offense? Are you playing with extra people?
Not in wingback role where he has a fair share of defensive responsibility tho.
In much inferior side.Look at their international records - Ruud 35 goals in 70 games, Villa 59 goals in 97 games. EURO 2008 golden boot, 2010 WC silver shoe, Spain leading goalscorer, etc..
Popescu got most of them in midfield, here he is in defence.
Souness had 99 in over 700 games for club and country - both Suarez and Coluna for 500 and less.
You would invite pressure tho which would mean we will have space around the box, especially with such a versatile attack.
I think based on their individual quality Ruud would have much tougher time against Kohler than Nedved and Villa against de Boer and Popescu tbh. You will be hard pressed to find more tactically astute players than Rio, Netto, Gerets and Coluna defending on counter tbh. All of them are very well known to have high tactical discipline and are pretty intelligent players.
How do you intend to cope with our right flank and Nedved/Gerets on for Bossis as a wing back and de Boer?
We also have plenty of bodies to handle your attackers. Your argument is you outnumber is in both phases by having extra people on Kaka and Ruud, and then have your open players on offense? Are you playing with extra people?
no, not really. My point is that we have advantage in the direct encounters - Kohler over Ruud, Villa on Popescu and Nedved on de Boer. Kaka will be free roaming but having in mind Beckham's defensive duties and the other threats coming from midfield we can double him whilst keeping the line.
Also Beckham and Bossis are obviously quality players but they are not the paciest players on the pitch and Gerets who for example will track back - is.
Not a wing back role. Who said that?
And Villa did all that in a much superior side to Ruud's Dutch side.
I assume all of your players goals came in the same roles and positions they are playing in here? I was just pointing out there's players on both sides who have similar goal scoring records.
Didn't you also state you were playing in a counter attacking set up? So you'd be inviting pressure in your game also...either that, or you've prepared them for a game plan which you're no longer implementing.
Ruud's goal scoring pedigree speaks for itself in league, international, and Champions League play. Trying to Man mark him out of the game is somewhat suicidal, especially with Kaka roaming around looking to exploit open space.
Would i be hard pressed to find more tactically astute players? When I have de Boer, Tigana, Bossis, Burgnich...all who played in systems which requires an understanding of everything going on.
We'll be playing to limit space to operate. I doubt Gerets will be attacking as much as you'd expect him to, as Kaka wouldnfpot into that open space to look to start counters. I don't care how fast you think Gerets would be getting back, once Kaka is off, he's off.
So you expect to double him with who? Whatever double teams you intend to deploy on him, which aren't guaranteed to work anyway, means someone else is open.
I'm not sure what the point is here? Beckham isn't the paciest? No, but he's only needing to beat Capdevilla on offense, and help out if necessary defensively when he'd be somewhat withdrawn anyway. He's not playing as an attacking right winger, nor does he have a specific marking job out wide. Same with Bossis. He'll help out on defense when necessary, and look to work forward when there's space to do so.
Either Nedved moves with Bossis when he moves up, or Gerets steps out to meet him. Either way it forces a reshuffle of your side which may be too much to ask at times when your players are trying to figure out who's double teaming Kaka at any given moment.
"David Beckham will man the right side flank, and has the ability to be up and down the wing all game" - from the description it is pretty close to a wing back role tbh. A similar description you have for Bossis. Either way he's assigned a lot more defensive role to having Gazza behind him.
Sure, but Huntelaar had better goal scoring ratio in similar side(even worse) at that time. Villa was right up there on the goal scoring charts of La Liga playing for a team that couldn't even finish top 10.
There is a big difference in midfield and attack tho. Popescu played as a sweeper at CB whilst of course as midfielder he was in a much more advanced role. Beckham also has a lot more defensive responsibilities manning the whole flank compared to Luisito, Nedved, etc.
I'd imagine the two sides would be playing a direct style. Probably you have a much deeper approach so we will have to step up - at least from the deep line and overall description. Obviously our task when we lose the ball is to get it back and start a counter.
Really? Nistelrooy is by far your best attacking threat, countering him and Kaka should really diminish a lot of your attacking output and Ruud's style falls directly into Kohler's. He will outmuscle and outbattle him on the pitch.
Sure, so are Rensenbrink - total football, Luisito - the architect, Gerets and Coluna who are also great battlers and grafters on the pitch and Netto who played in 3-4 positions at top level in his career, not to mention Nedved who is also one of the most versatile midfielders in history and possesses stamina levels comparable to Cafu, Davids and well - Gerets.
Obviously your players are also tactically sound, but I was responding to how we will organize in defence
As I've said, apart from Kaka you still have to have bodies forward and whilst Kaka will be duly noted our players in transition are perfectly capable of defending their lines and tracking back.
He won't be as I mentioned you have 2 players that could possibly outpace our midfield on counter - Tigana and Kaka. Souness, Becks, Bossis, etc - all need some time to hit top speed. Whilst our wing backs, Nedved, Rensenbrink, etc when in transition could catch up with them.
of course, but in this way Becks is more of a provider than a goalscorer which again underlines my point that we have more direct(and various) threat in attack.
Coluna, Netto, Rio, Gerets, Capdevila? Any two of them could double him whilst Nedved moves in to transition.
I dunno about that. He lacks pace, but he has every one of those other qualities in abundance. I'm unconvinced either Boniek or Conti have more application and fitness to be honest. Beckham was exceptional in those respects even by the standards of the modern game.
Went for Enigma because Skizzo's side to me seems like its in two minds about how it wants to play. Too many players that just excelled in different systems while I don't see this tactic as really bringing them all together in a better than the sum of the parts way. Although I do like Beckham in that role.
The cross to RvN tactic against the CBs looks very low percentage while Kaka just looks a bit lonely with this mix of personnel. Enigma's side lacks the premier goal scorer name but I see it more capable of consistent team goals than Skizzo's side.
The cross to RvN tactic against the CBs looks very low percentage while Kaka just looks a bit lonely with this mix of personnel. Enigma's side lacks the premier goal scorer name but I see it more capable of consistent team goals than Skizzo's side.
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No love for Villa?
Hey you didn't quote the full quote "premier goal scorer name" I actually rate Villa as a goal scorer but I just meant he isn't typically considered as prolific as others in their peak yes?
Headed to bed and may not be back around for the end of this.
Good game so far @Enigma_87 @Šjor Bepo and good luck for the rest
Good game so far @Enigma_87 @Šjor Bepo and good luck for the rest
dont know tbh, i always considered him as a top goalscorer.....but yeah, you are right, he probably isnt seen as one(which doesnt mean he isnt one). Reckon his Barca spell screwed him a bit in that aspect, he was fantastic for them dont get me wrong but it was a totally different role so people forget a bit how brilliant he was as a striker.
At the end his best days as a striker came in a lesser club which harm his records and achievements there and goal record for national team probably wont be enough to compare him with the very best.
Missed the final whistle on this one but would have gone for Enigma for the clarity of his structure, likely under-appreciation of Villa in an all-time context, and relative narrowness of the Skizzo attack which would have allowed Enigma to defend compactly.
Headed to bed and may not be back around for the end of this.
Good game so far @Enigma_87 @Šjor Bepo and good luck for the rest
cheers, good game as well. Both you and pat are out now, reckon edgar is over the moon with that outcome
Headed to bed and may not be back around for the end of this.
Good game so far @Enigma_87 @Šjor Bepo and good luck for the rest
Cheers mate. Good game, and commiserations, always tough to face your teams.
Cheers, Gio. I think Villa is one of the top forwards since the turn of the century and deserves his place in all time context. Have no doubt that at his peak would hit the same figures Suarez is hitting for example given he gets similar service.
cheers, good game as well. Both you and pat are out now, reckon edgar is over the moon with that outcome
As long as it's not by his team, I'm ok with that
Cheers mate. Good game, and commiserations, always tough to face your teams.
Cheers mate. Good luck going forward