He should be publicly bringing everyone together under the same cause, all while quietly yet ruthlessly shipping out the misfits/underperformers.
Realistically how brutal does Erik Ten Hag need to be?
- Thread starter fastwalker
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He should start by clearly setting expectations. That includes performance in training and the ones not up to will soon reveal themselves. He’ll likely cull a few of the bad apples this summer (in addition to the ones we know are already leaving) but it’s not realistic for it to be more than that. If he goes full scorched earth right away these players will down tools again, and he needs some of them to play next season.
That's about it. He can wrap it in sugar coat but basically all are in clean slate. Hopefully the new recruits will fit right in, demonstrating to the rest of the squad as what it should be like playing at top level. Cut out a few weeds next summer, and we should have a core squad of 13-15 players. Not necessarily good enough to fight at the top on a consistent basis, but at least show us what MU should be like
Honestly I'm worried about keeping Bruno, that's how bad I think it is. With him playing as a 10, it means you're gonna have 2 central midfielders and will be overwhelmed in midfield. We may need to play 4222 or play him on the wing.
Varane is the only one I'm comfortable backing to be here in 3 years.
Varane is the only one I'm comfortable backing to be here in 3 years.
He should be Godzilla V Bambi brutal and step on these inflated egos.
To be honest, one of the reasons I am angry that we missed out on Conte is that I think he would have been much tougher and, sad as it is, I think we need that right now. It's also one of the reasons I wanted Enrique (although I knew there was no chance with the World Cup stupidly being awarded to a country where it has to be staged half way through the season).
Not sure ETH will be tough enough (he doesn't have to be brutal) although hopefully he won't be as weak as Ole seemed to be - I still think much of the failing this season came from not being as fit as some other clubs right t the start of the season)
Not sure ETH will be tough enough (he doesn't have to be brutal) although hopefully he won't be as weak as Ole seemed to be - I still think much of the failing this season came from not being as fit as some other clubs right t the start of the season)
He'll know after about 3 days which players actually want to improve and which players really don't care. It's a good thing for him I suppose as it will be blatantly obvious, that's how low it's got
It’s irrelevant at this juncture when by the time he officially starts Pogba’s contract will have finished. I didn’t say you said Pogba did us in against Brighton though did I? I highlighted how idiotic it is to focus on a soon to be expired contract when EtH has far more pressing concerns. Focusing on that contract, when RR has stated he isn’t signing it doesn’t pay attention to EtH’s real problems.You won't see me claiming that Pogba did us in at the Amex yesterday, but it was a nice strawman try.
The club still has a massive contract offer in front of Pogba, which he may or may not decide to sign before ETH arrives at Old Trafford. You might be right that Pogba is leaving, but we might all wake up tomorrow morning to find out that he's actually signed the contract, laughing all the way to the bank.
ETH needs to be given wide latitude in deciding who is and who isn't going to be a member of the squad going into next season, a point no one can reasonably dispute. There are more than a few players who need to go and we may not be able to get of them, such as Martial. Fair enough. But why we still have a contract offer in front of a player who has made it a very public point that he will not commit to United boggles the mind. Yet we do and unless the contract offer is withdrawn, ETH may find that he has a player on his hands he doesn't want and can't get rid of. On the other hand, if ETH does want Pogba that's a different matter.
What good does publicly withdrawing the contract do? It gives people like yourself one last win in a battle you’ve taken up against our own player but you do understand there’s not some table with a contract on that Pogba walls past on his way into Carrington don’t you? It’s a turn of phrase. He can’t simply sign it in the dead of night.
The most worrying contract EtH has to now work with is the one we gave to Bruno despite a worrying downturn in form on terms that benefit the player not club. I’m just not so sure why posters are worrying about Pogba still when looking at Saturday the issues run far deeper than a man on the way out, hence the pogba contract vs Brighton comment, it just doesn’t focus on the actual issues.
Totally agree with are fitness levels being not up to standard. They have been for years. I'm sure for ETH"s system to work you have to be very fit. I think a few players are in for a shock, fitness wise.
What I would also add is that people forget how much of a difference playing with desire, in a proper system, can make. Yes it’s a shame player desire doesn’t come from within but alas that’s the state of a modern footballer and if we only sought those players we’d struggle to find them. To my mind ETH doesn’t need to be brutal, he needs to identify the players who will work in his system and who have a desire to win but are just low on confidence. He can work and develop those guys and they can have a role to play. It’s all to easy to underestimate the amount of impact that can have. There are however toxic and problematic players in our squad, who must be “brutally” dealt with immediately. I don’t know how many that is.
If what you said does happen then I am afraid nothing is going to change at United, the board has to be realistic and set realistic targets for ETH, if the board has such a short-term vision it's like they are shooting themselves in the foot again like they have been doing since SAF left. It's high time the fans also realise it's going to take time and effort for United to get back to the top and start playing good football (like an actual team), there's no point in making the manager the scapegoat again and again.
No quarter given. These players (sans the new buys) deserve absolutely nothing and the excuses being made for them is exactly why we're in the rut we're in.
The reality is many are going nowhere unless the club pays them off or subsidises them elsewhere, once that is factored in, more players that have outstayed their welcome will be going nowhere unless told they won't be playing and care enough about that because it's a World Cup year.
Whatever the rot is within the club, it needs to be sandblasted out and a treatment of weed killer applied to that; ten Hag should take whatever approach he thinks is best, but if he wants as many out as possible, the club has to try and facilitate it.
People on here still backing these players beggar belief. These same players that don't mind getting thumped on the road whilst paying support are left to look like mugs. For all the stick Ronaldo has had on here, if the rest of these players had his personal pride and sense of duty to something, we wouldn't be in this mess, nor be indifferent to 90-something percent of the squad being removable.
The reality is many are going nowhere unless the club pays them off or subsidises them elsewhere, once that is factored in, more players that have outstayed their welcome will be going nowhere unless told they won't be playing and care enough about that because it's a World Cup year.
Whatever the rot is within the club, it needs to be sandblasted out and a treatment of weed killer applied to that; ten Hag should take whatever approach he thinks is best, but if he wants as many out as possible, the club has to try and facilitate it.
People on here still backing these players beggar belief. These same players that don't mind getting thumped on the road whilst paying support are left to look like mugs. For all the stick Ronaldo has had on here, if the rest of these players had his personal pride and sense of duty to something, we wouldn't be in this mess, nor be indifferent to 90-something percent of the squad being removable.
Radahn pre-patch
Definitely. Klopp never called anyone out in public but he took one look at his goalkeepers and the likes of Moreno and replaced them asap. We don't need histrionics from Erik in public, just action.
He needs to be the one that knocks
He has to be tough in decision making, and must show he is the boss and take no nonsense from the very start.
He probably needs to be more brutal than he'll be allowed to be, I hope I'm wrong.
He will be reasonable and give everyone a chance to prove themselves. He will give clear instructions as to how to implement his gameplan. Those who do not comply will be subbed immediately or will not start the next game or both. That's the first step.
We should be getting rid of 90% of the sqaud within 3 windows brutal.
Not as brutal as people on here would want, more brutal then he will probably be allowed to be.
I dont think he needs to be ’brutal’ per se. We already know which players will leave this summer. So the key for Ten Hag’s success here will be the new additions to the first team.
Im sure he’ll have a clear idea of which players can improve not only the team but also our current slacking culture at the club. We need a mix of physical and high energy players. Exciting times coming now.
Im sure he’ll have a clear idea of which players can improve not only the team but also our current slacking culture at the club. We need a mix of physical and high energy players. Exciting times coming now.
There is already so many players leaving that I do not see him kicking anyone else.
At best he will get 3 players + maybe a free transfer in. So he will already have less players.
I do not see that he will remove anyone not asking for it this summer.
And if we have to wait for ETH to start before we contact new potential players I doubt that we will be in time this summer.
At best he will get 3 players + maybe a free transfer in. So he will already have less players.
I do not see that he will remove anyone not asking for it this summer.
And if we have to wait for ETH to start before we contact new potential players I doubt that we will be in time this summer.
Ten Hag is an intelligent manager who can get the best out of players while not worrying about benching or omitting players who aren`t up to a particular game or style of play. He won`t come in throwing his weight around but he will be decisive and if he has the full backing of the Manchester United board and organisation, he will be able to cull the squad without putting on any public show of strength or engaging in drama.
From what we can find out about his character and managerial style, it seems he will focus on getting what he can out of players based on how they fit the system he will implement. He will be canny enough to let the players know he`s not coming in with assumptions but they will have to up their work rate and show they really want to be at United and learn from him.
I think he will be inclined to give players such as Bruno, Maguire, Marcus, Fred, Sancho, Varane and McTominay opportunity to show what they can do under him and ask Ronaldo to stay. But hopefully Pogba, Bailly and Shaw for starters will be told they are not required. I`m a fan of those three but it`s time for Paul to move on, Bailly hasn`t got the right attitude and Shaw is also out of time and his attitude has left too much to be desired. Those three names must go to set the tone at the beginning.
From what we can find out about his character and managerial style, it seems he will focus on getting what he can out of players based on how they fit the system he will implement. He will be canny enough to let the players know he`s not coming in with assumptions but they will have to up their work rate and show they really want to be at United and learn from him.
I think he will be inclined to give players such as Bruno, Maguire, Marcus, Fred, Sancho, Varane and McTominay opportunity to show what they can do under him and ask Ronaldo to stay. But hopefully Pogba, Bailly and Shaw for starters will be told they are not required. I`m a fan of those three but it`s time for Paul to move on, Bailly hasn`t got the right attitude and Shaw is also out of time and his attitude has left too much to be desired. Those three names must go to set the tone at the beginning.
Why can't we have a wholesale clearout in one season? What's going to happen? We finish 7th in the league?
I think ETH should be brutal with all the fringe dross and sideline them entirely. You leave or you're in the reserves.
With the first team players he wants to work with, he needs to be equally strict - if you survive the cut you need to prove your worth next season or you're gone in the summer.
If there are gaps in the squad which aren't filled with transfers, then promote promising youth for the season.
The same attitude should be taken with the coaches, backroom staff etc - where we are not up to scratch, he should be demanding better.
If it was up to me...
Out Summer 22
At all costs - Pogba, Matic, Cavani, Mata, Lingard, Grant, Jones, Bailly, Martial, Periera,
If we can find a buyer/replacements - Telles, AWB, Shaw
Last Chance Saloon 2022/23
Everyone other than DDG, Bruno, Ronaldo, DVB, Sancho and Varane
Out Summer 23
Anyone not upto scratch, Shaw if he's still about, AWB if he's still about, McTomminay (he's not very good).
To my mind the players that will probably be here and very much still around the first XI:
DDG
Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Fred
Sancho
Bruno
Ronaldo
Thats at least 4 positions that need filling and probably 5-6 to have any level of comfort. I think Fred or Bruno will be benched a fair bit but also be used a lot. Both of them have a good work ethic and will do as they are told but its perhaps not great having both of them together on the pitch.
DDG
Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Fred
Sancho
Bruno
Ronaldo
Thats at least 4 positions that need filling and probably 5-6 to have any level of comfort. I think Fred or Bruno will be benched a fair bit but also be used a lot. Both of them have a good work ethic and will do as they are told but its perhaps not great having both of them together on the pitch.
Yes, it’s the contract offer to Pogba that did for us in the 4-0 yesterday & multiple other drubbings he’s not took part in.
If there were no contract extension offer in front of Pogba as we speak, it would obviously be ridiculous to speak of a contract extension offer that does not exist. But the contract extension offer does exist and although it's true that as it stands right now Pogba will be out of contract on June 30, it's entirely possible that Pogba will not be satisfied with his other options, or lack thereof, and that he'll sign the contract extension offer before ETH takes over.
All I'm suggesting is that ETH be given the maximum flexibility -- even to the point of "brutality" when it comes to rebuilding the squad. We don't know what ETH's thoughts on Pogba are, but it would not be stellar management on the part of the club to have signed a massively expensive contract extension for a player that the incoming manager might not want.
We've seen extremely poor club management over the last decade, have we not?
Very brutal and cannot fall for the trap of becoming just another puppet or else we are doomed...
I agree with this
I am not confident he can.
I believe we will have to buy in new players (or promote youth).
In 2 years, we'll know who was right.
When MUTV changes to this, you know he’s being brutal enough
He should go full, 100% scorched Earth!
If Maguire leaves the first training session with less than 2 black eyes I say we suck the soft fecker.
SAF brutal
He needs to dismantle the squad in the same way that Klopp did at Liverpool. It will take a few summers but it’s necessary.
If we keep relying on same players we’ll just go full circle and be back in similar scenario in 2-3 years time.
If we keep relying on same players we’ll just go full circle and be back in similar scenario in 2-3 years time.
He needs to be very brutal, we can't keep seeing these highly paid players put in one bad performance after another & get rewarded with constantly starting games & given new contracts, enough is enough.
Jose had his faves, Ole & RR both kept giving players who were awful & needed to be dropped a place in the starting XI in the next game, if ETH does the same I will be furious but I'm hoping that ETH will actually have us start to win matches from now on.
Jose had his faves, Ole & RR both kept giving players who were awful & needed to be dropped a place in the starting XI in the next game, if ETH does the same I will be furious but I'm hoping that ETH will actually have us start to win matches from now on.
Its either scorched earth or a much more rational and logical approach this summer. Should be the first but will be the second.
Erik ten Hag will be brutal at first. When he started at Fc Utrecht and Ajax on both occasions he collided with the player group.
He is a long term coach that will set some new rules. Players will have to do their defensive job for example. He wont set rules that are out of border.
Ten Hag is a decent guy and might not be loved at first but will be after they get to know him just like he did at Ajax and Utrecht.
He is a long term coach that will set some new rules. Players will have to do their defensive job for example. He wont set rules that are out of border.
Ten Hag is a decent guy and might not be loved at first but will be after they get to know him just like he did at Ajax and Utrecht.
The obvious answer is he has to be ruthless to the intent of kicking people out the club BUT I don’t think it will happen. We had the same discussion about Ole and a lot on here agreed as he’s a club legend he’ll put them straight or they’ll be out the door, if he couldn’t do it I can’t see ETH given that respect but I hope I’m proved wrong and he’s given the green light to get rid of as many players as he do wishes!!!
I disagree. Think its more of a personality thing and Ole clearly was a guy with a more laid back approach, where ETH seems the opposite. ETH also is just a higher stature of manager than Ole, having won the Dutch league 2 soon to be 3 times and made a very impressive run in the CL.
I know it looks all doom and gloom now, but with the right manager we can turn it around in 2 years. Lets hope ETH is our guy.