Real Madrid’s £700-Million Stadium Redevelopment

[PeterWunited]

Expanding the stadium would have meant making a lot more money in the following years. Doing it in a season with no fans would have saved them money compared to limiting seating for renovations in a normal season.

One thing you cannot accuse the Glazers of not being is business men. I am sure they will have done a cost/ benefit analysis of expanding the capacity at OT. They will have looked at funding it by future ticket sales etc., To expand an existing stadium gets to the point where it no longer becomes financially viable. Retrospective development costs are invariably more expensive than new builds.
In United's case it probably meant building over the railway and demolition of existing properties. Very expensive.

 

[JPRouve]

No they just get the government to buy their training ground for 400m more than it is worth.

When did Madrid sold training grounds for 400m? The city of Madrid paid 22.7m and the commission estimated that it was overvalued by 18.4m, EU courts later cancelled the commission decision because according to them the commission evaluation didn't appropriately evaluated the context and didn't prove that there was an actual benefit for Real Madrid.

 

[90 + 5min]

I hate how every stadium is turning into a soulless bowl.

I agree. One thing is to fix if it has problems but clubs building modern stadiums all over world is just wrong in my opinion.

Worst case of soul distraction must be Highbury. I understand it was ”smal” but Highbury was Arsenal. Their new arena is modern and beautifle but that is it. Nothing else. Just like every new stadium that is buildt.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You can't really plan this kind of things at the last minute between financing and construction permits.

Its hindsight. No one can anticipate how long the pandemic would last or how longer its can still drag on. So if I was management I would focus on what I can control. Too many unknowns with stadium refurbishment. What if there was another lockdown and all the work has to stop in mid-season?

True, I didn't think of that. Just seems like it was an opportunity, maybe we could have done smaller renovations, like the roof seating etc.

 

[The Cat]

You are shifting the goalposts to an absurd degree after making a completely false statement.

The "government" did not "buy Real Madrid's training ground" for "400m more than it is worth." There is literally no truth to this statement; every single part of it is wrong. You are repeating half-remembered bits and pieces you've read over the years like a drunk at a bar.

You don't understand exaggeration either then. Ok believe that Madrid have not benefited to millions of euros if you like.

 

[RUCK4444]

We need a stadium that’s going to be fit for purpose for the next 100 years.

More importantly we need a team that’s fit for a £800 million redevelopment such as this Madrid one.

This is so far down the list of priorities right now it’s untrue.

What would you rather... a cheese room and a cinema or Sancho flying down the wing and the holes in our squad fixed?

If I go to a stadium I go to watch football. I’ve been to Nou Camp, place was a concrete shite hole when I went there, did that matter one single bit when you see it full at kick-off? Of course not.

This is fan snobbery at its finest. I’d like a developed stadium, same as you, I’m not being overly sentimental here about Old Trafford, I’m just surveying what needs to be prioritised and this is really one of them.

 

[stevoc]

Chelsea is such a tight site.

i wish they could have moved to Battersea, that stadium design was spectacular.

That was another really interesting design. Would have been a unique stadium.

 

[PeterWunited]

More importantly we need a team that’s fit for a £800 million redevelopment such as this Madrid one.

This is so far down the list of priorities right now it’s untrue.

What would you rather... a cheese room and a cinema or Sancho flying down the wing and the holes in our squad fixed?

If I go to a stadium I go to watch football. I’ve been to Nou Camp, place was a concrete shite hole when I went there, did that matter one single bit when you see it full at kick-off? Of course not.

This is fan snobbery at its finest. I’d like a developed stadium, same as you, I’m not being overly sentimental here about Old Trafford, I’m just surveying what needs to be prioritised and this is really one of them.

You are right the Nou Camp is a dump. If you want a souless ground this is one of the best, yet it is lauded as a marvellous place.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

More importantly we need a team that’s fit for a £800 million redevelopment such as this Madrid one.

This is so far down the list of priorities right now it’s untrue.

What would you rather... a cheese room and a cinema or Sancho flying down the wing and the holes in our squad fixed?

If I go to a stadium I go to watch football. I’ve been to Nou Camp, place was a concrete shite hole when I went there, did that matter one single bit when you see it full at kick-off? Of course not.

This is fan snobbery at its finest. I’d like a developed stadium, same as you, I’m not being overly sentimental here about Old Trafford, I’m just surveying what needs to be prioritised and this is really one of them.

we Can, and should be doing both. We have spent a fortune on the playing squad over the past 7 years.

we don’t need redevelopment or a new stadium as a priority - but we do need some repairs.

however, we should be planning now for changes to OT, they take years to implement - start planning now, and we might get something completed before Sancho hits 30.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

That was another really interesting design. Would have been a unique stadium.

I love those towers. Would have loved something better than a block of flats, even if it meant Chelsea playing there. Shame.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Yeah that way is borrowing money.

Would you like to see the Glazers take out a £400-500m loan and load that debt onto the club to redevelop OT in a similar fashion?

Now? No way because we have all the Glazer debt to deal with that we have paid off neatly twice over.

It started around 500 mil - We have paid approx 800 mil and as of today it's still around 500mil.

But that said if we never had The Glazers personal debt put on us then yes taking out loans to improve the stadium is fine.

Sure we could have done it with that 800 mil we lost. We have debt for NO reason or fault of our own. Debt to better the stadium is acceptable.

Just another example of how shite the Glazers are to the club.

 

[golden_blunder]

I’d like them to update the training ground first. Smaller money but more impact for the players

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I’d like them to update the training ground first. Smaller money but more impact for the players

what do you think is wrong with the training ground?

 

[golden_blunder]

what do you think is wrong with the training ground?

Temporary buildings, fans can walk in, facilities compared to City etc. It’s the detail that can win players in transfer talks

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

When did Madrid sold training grounds for 400m? The city of Madrid paid 22.7m and the commission estimated that it was overvalued by 18.4m, EU courts later cancelled the commission decision because according to them the commission evaluation didn't appropriately evaluated the context and didn't prove that there was an actual benefit for Real Madrid.

Real Madrid sold its old training grounds (or rather, the land) for 480m euros. But as GatoLoco mentioned earlier, the city of Madrid didn't buy it, private investors did. They used it to build a bunch of skyscrapers which are pretty well-known. The local government's involvement was that the land had to be re-zoned in order to make the project legal, which Perez lobbied for.

It's not really illegal or even unethical. You can debate as to whether selling the land for 480m to build skyscrapers instead of doing something else was the best idea, but that's just basic city governance stuff. Madrid's kept the same party in power for decades so I would guess people there are fine with this view of how to develop a city.

 

[JPRouve]

Real Madrid sold its old training grounds (or rather, the land) for 480m euros. But as GatoLoco mentioned earlier, the city of Madrid didn't buy it, private investors did. They used it to build a bunch of skyscrapers which are pretty well-known. The local government's involvement was that the land had to be re-zoned in order to make the project legal, which Perez lobbied for.

It's not really illegal or even unethical. You can debate as to whether selling the land for 480m to build skyscrapers instead of doing something else was the best idea, but that's just basic city governance stuff. Madrid's kept the same party in power for decades so I would guess people there are fine with this view of how to develop a city.

Since he mentioned an overvaluation I assumed that he was talking about the EU decision.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Real Madrid sold its old training grounds (or rather, the land) for 480m euros. But as GatoLoco mentioned earlier, the city of Madrid didn't buy it, private investors did. They used it to build a bunch of skyscrapers which are pretty well-known. The local government's involvement was that the land had to be re-zoned in order to make the project legal, which Perez lobbied for.

It's not really illegal or even unethical. You can debate as to whether selling the land for 480m to build skyscrapers instead of doing something else was the best idea, but that's just basic city governance stuff. Madrid's kept the same party in power for decades so I would guess people there are fine with this view of how to develop a city.

Which skyscrapers are built where that training ground was?

 

[carvajal]

Which skyscrapers are built where that training ground was?

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuatro_Torres_Business_Area

 

[RUCK4444]

we Can, and should be doing both. We have spent a fortune on the playing squad over the past 7 years.

we don’t need redevelopment or a new stadium as a priority - but we do need some repairs.

however, we should be planning now for changes to OT, they take years to implement - start planning now, and we might get something completed before Sancho hits 30.

Yeah I’m all for planning ahead and agree we’ve wasted money hand over fist.

We also should have more cash at our disposal for this if it weren’t for the owners of course, which is why I’m concerned with spending a lot of the cash we do get to spend anywhere else other than the playing staff.

 

[Avero]

Looks great (and expensive), I don't think it will look too futuristic when it is actually built

I don't understand the "no soul" comments either, a stadium doesn't have to be old and shitty to have soul

 

[RoyH1]

Very nice however, not sure why it would be necessary to install a fully closed roof in Madrid. Should save themselves a hundred million or so and drop that.

I thought so too, and then I was told that Perez is very much planning in using the stadium as an indoor venue for big events like eSports, boxing and bringing NBA teams for exhibition matches.

For those asking how it's funded, well the same as anyone would, with a 30 year loan from a bank. Not really something that will break their back.

 

[stevoc]

Now? No way because we have all the Glazer debt to deal with that we have paid off neatly twice over.

It started around 500 mil - We have paid approx 800 mil and as of today it's still around 500mil.

But that said if we never had The Glazers personal debt put on us then yes taking out loans to improve the stadium is fine.

Sure we could have done it with that 800 mil we lost. We have debt for NO reason or fault of our own. Debt to better the stadium is acceptable.

Just another example of how shite the Glazers are to the club.

Well in that case I agree had the Glazers not bought United and the club remained a PLC. Old Trafford wouldn't be in the state it is. 92, 95, 99, 00 and 05 OT seen major redevelopment work. 5 expansions in 13 years and all that stopped when the Glazers took over. Virtually nothing in the 16 years since.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Well in that case I agree had the Glazers not bought United and the club remained a PLC. Old Trafford wouldn't be in the state it is. 92, 95, 99, 00 and 05 OT seen major redevelopment work. 5 expansions in 13 years and all that stopped when the Glazers took over. Virtually nothing in the 16 years since.

there should obviously have been maintenance. But I don’t think we can expand OT that much more, both in terms of infrastructure and demand. I’m not supporting the Glazers at all, but the stadium is about as big as it gets.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

One thing you cannot accuse the Glazers of not being is business men. I am sure they will have done a cost/ benefit analysis of expanding the capacity at OT. They will have looked at funding it by future ticket sales etc., To expand an existing stadium gets to the point where it no longer becomes financially viable. Retrospective development costs are invariably more expensive than new builds.
In United's case it probably meant building over the railway and demolition of existing properties. Very expensive.

You're probably right.

 

[fergies coat]

there should obviously have been maintenance. But I don’t think we can expand OT that much more, both in terms of infrastructure and demand. I’m not supporting the Glazers at all, but the stadium is about as big as it gets.

The slopping roofs need sorting out though they are awful. You get a poor view if your high up and it makes the stands look smaller than they are. St James's park looks huge compared to Old Trafford.

 

[AkaAkuma]

How will the natural light be for this new development? Doesn't look to be a large space for sun light.

Also there's something I like about the helicopter shots of a fully lit stadium at night, looks like this will be lacking.

I think the design is fine, but for a club with so much heritage, I'd have hoped they could have modernized the exterior while keeping some aspects for history.

 

[Lj82]

Its an interesting argument -- people have been re-looking at what to do with traditional spaces for a couple of decades now. Downtowns of cities are nearly empty after office hours and are constantly in need of some sort of rejuvenation or it slumps into some crime ridden area after dark.

OT would be empty if not for the tours and Megastore and thus underutilising the space.

Singapore's Changi Airport has utilised the passenger terminals to the next level -- instead of having a facility that has drab buildings that welcomes arriving and departing passengers, they have built what was a former car park between terminals into a facility that locals, passengers with a few hours to kill can kill:

Didn't expect to see a video of Changi Jewel in a thread about Real's new stadium

 

[stevoc]

there should obviously have been maintenance. But I don’t think we can expand OT that much more, both in terms of infrastructure and demand. I’m not supporting the Glazers at all, but the stadium is about as big as it gets.

I don't mean necessarily more expansions. But the PLC demonstrated that they were willing to regularly invest money into improving the stadium every few years. I'm sure they maybe would have expanded or renovated the south stand at some point. And then after that I imagine other improvements would have taken place in the years since.

 

[sglowrider]

Didn't expect to see a video of Changi Jewel in a thread about Real's new stadium

It's the same basic philosophy with all new football stadiums -- How to maximise the space being used rather than just for its primary functions -- both to optimise the land use but also revenues.

 

[kingwaynerooney]

I have been to madrid's stadium. It is incredible. Compare that to barcelona's, which is boring.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuatro_Torres_Business_Area

Cheers! I thought it might be those atrocities