The guy is right. Liverpool's problem's in midfield stem mainly from Lucas whatever the Brazilian coach may think of him.
Raul Meireles
- Thread starter jgraham
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The guy is right. Liverpool's problem's in midfield stem mainly from Lucas whatever the Brazilian coach may think of him.
I rate Meireles but he might end up as just another Tiago Mendes...
A lot of Liverpool fans share Thai's opinion of Lucas. If Meireles (replacing Lucas) turns into a Tiago Mendes we'll have already improved our midfield visibly.
Indeed. Lucas doesn't suit the type of football Liverpool want to play. For Brazil he fits in just fine, because they concentrate their magic on the flank and in forward areas. Rather than in central midfield.
He's a lot more similar to Tiago Mendes than to Xabi Alonso, if that's what you're wondering.
He had a very bad season last year, except for the national team... Let's see if the Premier motivates him and he adapts, but I sincerely don't see him making a huge difference in a top-8 team. He's not awesome at anything, and the area where he's certainly usually below average (his fitness level) might hurt him more in the Premier than it did in Portugal.
For 4 years he was routinely the first player to be subbed, out of exhaustion. And we have a 30-games league, not 38.
I maintain what I always said, he's a useful option to have, not a game-changing player. I couldn't see him getting into Porto's first team this year with the current options we have.
He had a very bad season last year, except for the national team... Let's see if the Premier motivates him and he adapts, but I sincerely don't see him making a huge difference in a top-8 team. He's not awesome at anything, and the area where he's certainly usually below average (his fitness level) might hurt him more in the Premier than it did in Portugal.
For 4 years he was routinely the first player to be subbed, out of exhaustion. And we have a 30-games league, not 38.
I maintain what I always said, he's a useful option to have, not a game-changing player. I couldn't see him getting into Porto's first team this year with the current options we have.
Excellent 
And Pool have just gone out and bought him. Oh Dear.
Has the transfer actually gone through?
He was in the stands at Anfield yesterday.
So they've gone out and spent a large bulk of their budget on a player who's just a little more than a hardworker. I used to think that Woy was a very good manager, some of his transfers at Liverpool so far are a bit bemusing to say the least.
Any truth in them going after Carlton Cole too?
His excellent World Cup maintained his value pretty high, but if anyone understands Portuguese you'll get an idea of how much his sale was celebrated among Porto supporters.
Best to leave any criticism of him until after we play Liverpool.
Hi Arruda, getting contradicting statements about this guy. Apparently he's a Tiago, who's known for his engine and hard work, yet Miereles has average fitness levels.
Miereles is not as technical as your other midfielders, e.g. Moutino, so his primary role is of a hardworker. Yet, again, you mention he gets subbed because his fitness levels have been substandard for you.
What are we getting here? A hard worker in the Tiago sense or a technical Berbatov-esque player who can't break into a jog? Has to be one or the other or he would never had played a single game for Porto. Surely?
Whenever I watched Porto, Lucho was the one who orchestrated things. So this chap must be the one doing the donkey work...which makes sense since he is replacing a world class donkey in Masherano.
Yet reading Arruda's (a little bitter) posts Miereles has no fitness levels. So he's a dead donkey that played for Porto for a number of years and no one noticed how bad his fitness was until a few days ago when he was sold.
I like the way Dumpstar has taken to punctuating his own posts with little houllier smilies (surely long overdue being changed to :benitez: btw?) it saves the rest of us the hassle.
Where have you been Pogue? I put posters up on every lamppost down south here. Do you have kraftwerker with you? He hasn't reported back and isn't responding to the whistles.
Hi Arruda, getting contradicting statements about this guy. Apparently he's a Tiago, who's known for his engine and hard work, yet Miereles has average fitness levels.
Miereles is not as technical as your other midfielders, e.g. Moutino, so his primary role is of a hardworker. Yet, again, you mention he gets subbed because his fitness levels have been substandard for you.
What are we getting here? A hard worker in the Tiago sense or a technical Berbatov-esque player who can't break into a jog? Has to be one or the other or he would never had played a single game for Porto. Surely?
The part where I think he resembled Tiago is on his technical ability and positioning. And I think a player can be hard-working and still get exhausted early, and that's how Meireles was on his prime phase.
Yet reading Arruda's (a little bitter) posts Miereles has no fitness levels. So he's a dead donkey that played for Porto for a number of years and no one noticed how bad his fitness was until a few days ago when he was sold.
Not really, he was an instrumental player on our last four consecutive leagues and he was very appreciated here and we are all thankful for his performances at that time. That still doesn't prevent me from having an opinion on which players from our squad could have a say in a big premier league team, and on that regard I think only Bruno Alves, Lucho and Lisandro Lopez were at that level.
Some people here were already comparing him to Xabi Alonso and that's insane, his play-making ability is nowhere near that. I don't know the Premier League very well, but from what I read here I'd say he resembles more Fletcher. Not extraordinary, but very balanced, tactically disciplined and (when on top form, not like last year) consistent on his performances.
His fitness is not a subjective data related to bitterness (whose reasons I explained previously), it's an irrefutable fact, for the last 2 or 3 seasons he couldn't consistently play for more than 60-70 minutes and 90% of the times was the first player to be subbed, even on good performance days.
I don't know how Liverpool usually lines up, but Meireles on Porto, always played on a 3-man midfield.
--------Fernando/Assunção--------
-----------------------Meireles----
----Lucho/Belluchi-----------------
He didn't do all the donkey work alone, he always had a more defensive-minded player behind him. He occasionally replaced Fernando or Assunção (who I assume to be more similar to Mascherano) but that clearly wasn't his best role.
Quickly, we have to hide Giggs. Anderson just stood there and stared.
Now he has come to UK to finish...
Giggs rates him a 5 at bumming
And if you want objective data, a comparison of his average minutes-per-game of him and another first-team midfielder (João Moutinho) from the same league at the same time:
2006/2007: 71' vs 88'
2007/2008: 78' vs 90'
2008/2009: 80' vs 90'
2009/2010: 73' vs 90'
Both started almost every game, but you will always have to "spend" a substitution with Meireles. Maybe the downside of his hard-working, but the truth is that there is one Meireles before the 60th minute and one after it.
2006/2007: 71' vs 88'
2007/2008: 78' vs 90'
2008/2009: 80' vs 90'
2009/2010: 73' vs 90'
Both started almost every game, but you will always have to "spend" a substitution with Meireles. Maybe the downside of his hard-working, but the truth is that there is one Meireles before the 60th minute and one after it.
That doesn't necessarily negate the point I was making though, does it? it's like when people blamed our poor midfield on Fletcher back in the day - it was a sign that our midfield's not of the highest quality but it didn't mean Fletcher's a bad player.
Likewise, Lucas isn't a bad player. You'd think him starting for Brazil would imply he's at least decent, no? Menezes was the one who got the best out of Lucas when he was playing in Brazil so he obviously knows he has talent.
Thanks Arruda. Wasn't sure of what to make of Meireles as have only seen him for Portugal and he's always done well. But then so do so many average players for their countries.
We need Lucas replaced asap. He is gash. If we're getting a Fletcher type (i.e. more skill than Lucas and more intelligent movement) then that's an improvement for us. Big improvement.
Christ on a bike...do people never learn?
Lucas is your Fletcher who is Chelsea's Mikel who is Arsenal's Denilson. People expect so much so quick.
I'll happily grant you your point, Brwned. But, good player or not, Lucas is the catalyst for Liverpool's midfield problems and doesn't suit the way we are trying to play in my view.
Lucas is our Anderson. I'd be very happy if he was our Fletcher. But that's just not true.
Where's your guarantee that the likes of Mikel. Denilson and Lucas will develop in the same way that Fletcher did? Who's to say they're not their Liam Miller?
Fwiw, I rate Lucas and I do think he's been unfairly scape-goated for Liverpool's woes. It was was nuts to expect an over-priced Italian crock to provide adequate cover for Alonso's departure in his first season in the Premier League, which put Lucas right in the firing line instead.
Out of the three players you named above, I think Lucas is the most likely to "do a Fletcher" but there's absolutely no guarantee he'll ever amount to anything.
Well it would be unfair to compare any of them to Miller as they all already have a significant number of first team apps under their belts at big clubs. Miller started a grand total of three league games for us.
Alan Smith then?
Or Phil Neville? (the midfield general)
EDIT: Meh. They weren't that young. You get my point though.
Or Phil Neville? (the midfield general)
EDIT: Meh. They weren't that young. You get my point though.
He's not a scapegoat, Pogue, he is simply not up to it. His passing is poor, he never makes himself available and his defending of both space and players is naive in the extreme.
He seems like an affable bloke but Liverpool is not his level. He may develop into the next Socrates but I very much doubt it.
Next time you watch Liverpool play, concentrate on him and his movement and what he does with the ball and what he does after he has moved it on (sideways).
Fairy muff. You've watched him a lot more than me.
My opinion is also skewed by the fecker consistently playing a blinder against United.
Yes, because Anderson is gash....right.
I'm not saying that they will progress like Fletcher, I'm saying they're thrown in at the deep end purely because the more talented player is constantly injured(Essien, Diaby, Aquilani) or some poor transfer decisions(Djemba-Djemba/Kleberson in, Alonso out) and despite playing well for their age, they take the majority of the criticism for midfield problems. It's got little to do about how they're genuinely progressing as a footballer and more about them being an easy target, I feel.
I'm not suggesting that they are going to become very good footballers, just that it's stupid that year after year a young player takes the brunt of the blame for something that's not really his fault and in the end draw huge amounts of undue criticism.
Undue criticism?
The criticism maybe over the top from some quarters but it is not undue in my view. Your post comes across as naive as some of Lucas' positional play!
Lucas' positional play itself may be naive but it's a new role to him, to be fair, he never had to have that level of positional discipline in Brazil and he still doesn't in the Brazil national team currently. It's not something you just pick up, and I reckon that the criticism of his positional play is somewhat exaggerated if he was consistently picked by a positionally obsessed manager like Rafa.
He's certainly shown some very intelligent movement as an attacking player from central positions when he was occasionally given the freedom to get forward, I thought. One game in particular he stood out last season for me with it, although I'm not entirely sure which one right now.
He's got some growing to do but I do think you're being overly harsh and he does have it in him, personally.
He's certainly shown some very intelligent movement as an attacking player from central positions when he was occasionally given the freedom to get forward, I thought. One game in particular he stood out last season for me with it, although I'm not entirely sure which one right now.
He's got some growing to do but I do think you're being overly harsh and he does have it in him, personally.
Fair enough, Brwned. It's all about opinions after all.
Its not what I meant, but Fletcher is miles ahead of anything Anderson can hope to be right now.
After this post I expect Anderson to win Ballon d'Or next year
After this post I expect Anderson to win Ballon d'Or next year
Probably, but I was using general consensus from the ManUtd forum since his £18 million signing.