[JBG]

I'm usually one of his defenders on here... but oh my, has his performance dropped to even worse levels. As mentioned above as well, his willingness to press and throw himself around has also gone lately.

 

[manutddjw]

I've constantly defended him because i think he's shown he's a good finisher with minimal opportunities but I'm starting to lose patience with him. Like most young players he's streaky he'll have a really good game and then 3 stinkers after that. I'd start Zirkzee, but my fear with Zirkzee is that he hasn't been good when he's started games either but he's somewhat in form so it's worth a shot.

 

[Brightonian]

Zirkzee doesn't have the running power to play as an actual #10. We did that combination once I believe (against Newcastle) and it failed horribly.

If anything I'd be tempted to do the opposite if we play them both together again. Have Zirkzee be the #9 who can play with his back to goal, holding off the defenders, moving deeper and making the defenders uncertain whether to follow him or stay in position. Hojlund then plays the deeper role in a similar way as Garnacho or Rashford do, so that instead of playing with his back to goal and constantly fighting with defenders he can get up to speed as he hits the defensive line to get on the end of through-balls (some by Zirkzee as he turns and releases it as he seems good at doing). It's not ideal, but I suspect it'd work better than the opposite.

I think the way Zirkzee manages to be more effective at receiving and holding up the ball than Hojlund is precisely by avoiding ending up in that #9 position on the pitch. He pulls deeper so the CBs can't just sit on top of him with their arms around him all game long. I reckon if you force him to play in the #9 position the way Hojlund does, he'd probably be no more effective. Whereas if you use Hojlund there to pull the focus of the CBs and let Zirkzee sit deeper as #10 but still aim the long balls at him, we might have a bit more luck.

Then again I didn't manage to watch the Newcastle game live so if you say we tried it and it didn't work, I'll take your word for it. I agree his movement and dynamism leave a lot to be desired. All of this is making do with what we've got and just signing a really top class striker who fits the brief would be preferable.

 

[Apokalips]

I was arguing this from early on last season. We’re not stupid, everyone has seen young players before. Ronaldo came at 18 and scored 5 goals first season. It was clear what he had, and it was clear what could be improved with more experience. Nobody was demanding the finished article from Hojlund. But I quickly became concerned when I saw that he wasn’t even missing chances, or playing poor passes. There was just nothing. Game after game with no attempts.

Garnacho, for example, is 20 himself. He probably averages at least 3 shots per game. He misses a huge amount of shots. But with those misses, you can chart a clear path of improvement linked to experience. If he starts taking even half of those chances, he’d be a real player. With Hojlund, it’s like we need to teach him how to play football from scratch. How to run, how to control. This is before he even starts MISSING some chances with frequency. That is not a player with top potential. We have to do too much. The basics are not there. He’s a decent finisher. So was Jordan Rhodes. He’s never a top-end difference making forward player. Not good enough players like Solanke and Richarlison had far more tools as young strikers.

Exactly this, it would be fine if he showed very obvious world class potential but he doesn't even know how to get himself into games.

There is also this crazy train of thought that the only reason he doesn't get chances is because his teammates do not pick him out, as if a striker just sits around waiting for tap ins and that their movement and anticipation is not a thing.

Garnacho is able to get on the end of chances, create chances and make things happen for himself but Hojlund is unable to get hold of the ball or even take shots. How often does Hojlund even keep the ball for more than 2 seconds? He gets beaten to the ball or dispossessed so easily and is so anonymous every match. We can't be carrying passengers in possibly the most vital position on the pitch.

He is a huge reason for our struggles because the ball doesn't stick with him so we can't progress up the pitch. He is in the exceptionally low percentiles for touches and shots and also offers nothing in terms of the defensive part of his role. It's weird how convinced some are that he is good enough but that Zirkzee is trash.

 

[Rozay]

I’m curious to see how many shots he has had across his last 3 starts. Even 5 starts. Heck, all season even. Not even shots on target, just shots of any description. I’d genuinely be surprised if he’s had much more than 10 shots in the PL all season. He’s a relegation level striker. His biggest quality, by far, seems to be the fact that he is 21 years old. That seems to be the biggest plus point.

 

[Gandalf]

I've constantly defended him because i think he's shown he's a good finisher with minimal opportunities but I'm starting to lose patience with him. Like most young players he's streaky he'll have a really good game and then 3 stinkers after that. I'd start Zirkzee, but my fear with Zirkzee is that he hasn't been good when he's started games either but he's somewhat in form so it's worth a shot.

Neither is great when starting games but I think Zirkzee has to start at the moment as much as anything because of how we approach games. We tend to start very slowly and often seem intent on sitting in deep which means our only hope of getting out is to play with a striker with his back to goal holding up the ball, probably the weakest part of Hojlund's game, so Zirkzee offers us more control. In the last 20 minutes we seem to go hell for leather and start progressing the ball much more rapidly, this suits Hojlund who is best when running onto through balls facing goal. We need an actual top class starting striker but until we get one using the two we have in ways which maximize their best traits and does not expose their weakest traits is a must. I think Amorim will see it this way too after yesterdays game.

 

[jesperjaap]

His confidence is shot, can get better. Though I have to confess I really thought he would be a top striker here and nothing to do with current form or stats, but doubting it now. He look like he ha all thae attributes to be a top triker big, strong, fast, good instinctive finishing....but his movement is poor, his hoild up play poor, he doesnt win duels. Certainly looks way over priced at this point

 

[Lay]

Bring back Ighalo

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

His confidence is shot, can get better. Though I have to confess I really thought he would be a top striker here and nothing to do with current form or stats, but doubting it now. He look like he ha all thae attributes to be a top triker big, strong, fast, good instinctive finishing....but his movement is poor, his hoild up play poor, he doesnt win duels. Certainly looks way over priced at this point

Was obvious from day one that his touch was very poor and also his movement. Our scouts are terrible when anyone can spot those flaws.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I’m curious to see how many shots he has had across his last 3 starts. Even 5 starts. Heck, all season even. Not even shots on target, just shots of any description. I’d genuinely be surprised if he’s had much more than 10 shots in the PL all season. He’s a relegation level striker. His biggest quality, by far, seems to be the fact that he is 21 years old. That seems to be the biggest plus point.

He is championship quality. Same as Antony, he needs to improve by a lot to even become a decent sub for us.

 

[gaffs]

He's been bad but there is a coincidence. Most of the 'good' performances from our strikers have been when they've come on as subs or when we 'turn it on' aka come back from behind.

Zirkzee deserves to start but it's hapless task being a Utd striker when you have Bruno and Garnacho spamming shots instead of trying to find your striker.

The problem with Hojlund is that he is often not in the right positions to be found.

Take the Bruno goal v Arsenal. Garnacho squared to Bruno for a great goal. But look at Hojlund's movement.

He a) does not help by creating space or moving a defender out of position
and b) doesn't put himself in a position where he can be passed to.

He's just not got the football IQ.

 

[Idxomer]

I’m curious to see how many shots he has had across his last 3 starts. Even 5 starts. Heck, all season even. Not even shots on target, just shots of any description. I’d genuinely be surprised if he’s had much more than 10 shots in the PL all season. He’s a relegation level striker. His biggest quality, by far, seems to be the fact that he is 21 years old. That seems to be the biggest plus point.

He has taken 12 shots in the league this season, 2 less than Martinez.

 

[V.O.]

His confidence is clearly on the floor. Needs to be a sub for a while for his own good.

Luckily Zirkzee seems to have just started to come out of the doldrums himself.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I’m curious to see how many shots he has had across his last 3 starts. Even 5 starts. Heck, all season even. Not even shots on target, just shots of any description. I’d genuinely be surprised if he’s had much more than 10 shots in the PL all season. He’s a relegation level striker. His biggest quality, by far, seems to be the fact that he is 21 years old. That seems to be the biggest plus point.

12 all season thus far (1032 minutes), 38 in the whole of last season (2171 minutes), 54 (1835 minutes) in his last season in Bergamo. During the previous two seasons, he averaged one league goal every 210 minutes. Now, it's every a goal every 516 minutes (thus far).

 

[Lay]

He has taken 12 shots in the league this season, 2 less than Martinez.

Yikes. That's dire

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Rather than poor performance, my biggest worry is his drop in mentality. He seemingly doesn't try as hard as he did last year.

His drop in level of pressing and willingness to engage in duels is very dramatic.

This. There was one point in the second half when he just opted out of a ground duel and sections of the home crowd groaned

 

[Denis79]

He has taken 12 shots in the league this season, 2 less than Martinez.

Wow that is awful.

 

[Rozay]

He has taken 12 shots in the league this season, 2 less than Martinez.

Completely unacceptable. And Martinez has even had injury trouble if I recall correctly. We’d not get much worse if we stuck Maguire upfront instead.

For a centre forward, for Manchester United no less, to have 12 shots (of any description) more than half way into a season is pathetic. This issue flagged to me from very early. I would have been far more encouraged if he were at least missing chances. Players like Casemiro offer us far greater goal threat from the centre of midfield even.

Out of curiosity, how many shots has Zirkzee had? I’m sure his shots per minute is far higher.

 

[MadDogg]

I think the way Zirkzee manages to be more effective at receiving and holding up the ball than Hojlund is precisely by avoiding ending up in that #9 position on the pitch. He pulls deeper so the CBs can't just sit on top of him with their arms around him all game long. I reckon if you force him to play in the #9 position the way Hojlund does, he'd probably be no more effective. Whereas if you use Hojlund there to pull the focus of the CBs and let Zirkzee sit deeper as #10 but still aim the long balls at him, we might have a bit more luck.

Then again I didn't manage to watch the Newcastle game live so if you say we tried it and it didn't work, I'll take your word for it. I agree his movement and dynamism leave a lot to be desired. All of this is making do with what we've got and just signing a really top class striker who fits the brief would be preferable.

We wouldn't want Zirkzee to play #9 the way Hojlund does. He should do it the way he already does, which is what opens up space both for himself (if the defenders don't follow him) or for others to run into (if the defenders do follow him). And it's not like it's only because he's dropping deep, he's also better at just holding defenders off while still winning the ball. He's bigger, stronger and has a better first touch and all-round better technique than Hojlund. He is still inconsistent at it as there were some games earlier in his time here where the defenders were constantly getting the better of him, but there have also been games (especially more recently) where he's been winning a significant amount of those duels and coming away with the ball.

It's Zirkzee's ability, or lack thereof, to run in behind that limits him, which is why we do need at least one of the #10's to be direct runners capable of hitting the line with pace to be on the end of passes from the likes of Bruno and Zirkzee himself. Something that Rashford at his best was great at, and where I think Hojlund might be able to have a bit more luck than he currently is.

Zirkzee looked lost in the #10 role against Newcastle. Fair enough the entire team was atrocious so I'm not ruling him out, but I really don't think he suits the role. A false nine is still more of a #9 than it is a #10.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I know the service Hojlund gets is mostly absolute shit. I know the vast majority of strikers would have struggled playing for us in the last 18 months, we've been horrendous. It's the worst Utd side for about 50 years.

But 12 shots on goal for the season when we're well into January is just pitiful.

I've defended Hojlund a lot and I still think there's a player there but you just can't defend that. He's absolutely zero threat at the minute, defenders must love coming up against him. It's the easiest game they could have.

 

[MadDogg]

Completely unacceptable. And Martinez has even had injury trouble if I recall correctly. We’d not get much worse if we stuck Maguire upfront instead.

For a centre forward, for Manchester United no less, to have 12 shots (of any description) more than half way into a season is pathetic. This issue flagged to me from very early. I would have been far more encouraged if he were at least missing chances. Players like Casemiro offer us far greater goal threat from the centre of midfield even.

Out of curiosity, how many shots has Zirkzee had? I’m sure his shots per minute is far higher.

In the league this season:

Zirkzee has had 17 shots in 8.3 games worth of minutes. 8 of those have been on target, with 3 goals scored.
Hojlund has had 12 shots in 11.4 games worth of minutes. 6 of them have been on target, with 2 goals scored.

 

[Alemar]

To be frank, Chido Obi wouldn’t do worse now

 

[Waynne]

He has taken 12 shots in the league this season, 2 less than Martinez.

Zirkzee has 8 shots on target in the league this season. Said it another thread, they're both shite. Zirkzee is just less shite but still shite.

Quite incredible that we have the two worst CF in this club's history.

 

[soapythecat]

I work with mostly Rangers and Celtic fans and they are always laughing about how poor Hojlund is. The Rangers lads are hoping he plays against them next week. I don't even think he could do a job for these teams in the SPL. I was laughed out of the Caf for suggesting he wouldn't hit double figures in the league this season and he's only just got into double figures for shots. He's laughably poor.

 

[hellhunter]

To be frank, Chido Obi wouldn’t do worse now

He'd do much much worse

 

[Captmfla]

Hojlund is special at times. I mean one can tell he's a great poacher and his finishing is better than Zirkzee. Sometimes he come out with good techniques to score so he's not a one trick pony like Antony. Plus he can run tremendously fast for such a buff striker.

 

[Rozay]

In the league this season:

Zirkzee has had 17 shots in 8.3 games worth of minutes. 8 of those have been on target, with 3 goals scored.
Hojlund has had 12 shots in 11.4 games worth of minutes. 6 of them have been on target, with 2 goals scored.

How can we possibly justify Hojlund being this automatic first choice over Zirkzee? It’s clear when you watch them that Zirkzee has one or two situations per game that can threaten a keeper, whereas Hojlund goes games without so much as a shot. And that’s before we get to the fact that Zirkzee is a far better footballer and links better with his teammates.

Neither are doing great things, but it’s clear Hojlund is doing worse. A number 9 with 6 shots on target in 11.5 full games is pathetic.

 

[Adamsk7]

He’s got everything but he’s not putting it all together. He really really needs to work on his hold up play

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Utd on Youtube recently uploaded all of Rooneys goals for Utd and the last goal Rooney ever scored for us is the sort of goal Hojlund just seems incapable of.

It's really simple, winger gets to the byline and drills the ball across goal and Rooney gets to it before the defender to tap it in. He gets to it first because he feints to run one way, checks back on himself to go the other way, then checks back again and goes the original way. The defender has no idea where Rooney is and it's an easy finish. It's all about proper movement, knowing what to do as a striker. Basic stuff.

This was a Rooney miles past his best too, but he still knew the runs and movements to make as a striker. Hojlund still seems to have no idea about any of that, it's madness he's been entrusted with the role of main forward for Utd.

 

[That_Bloke]

He’s got everything but he’s not putting it all together. He really really needs to work on his hold up play

He does not.

 

[Zoid]

He's just a bad striker, maybe one day he'll reach an average level, but right now he's just bad. He has no striker instinct, he either has it or he doesn't, he doesn't have it and never will.

 

[Alemar]

He'd do much much worse

It’s relatively easy to check. If Amorim plays him, we will find out

 

[hellhunter]

It’s relatively easy to check. If Amorim plays him, we will find out

He hasn't even played u21s yet

 

[JJ12]

It’s relatively easy to check. If Amorim plays him, we will find out

He won't because he knows its not a good idea

 

[Alemar]

He won't because he knows its not a good idea

I didn’t mean tomorrow, let’s say this season

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

I know the service Hojlund gets is mostly absolute shit. I know the vast majority of strikers would have struggled playing for us in the last 18 months, we've been horrendous. It's the worst Utd side for about 50 years.

But 12 shots on goal for the season when we're well into January is just pitiful.

I've defended Hojlund a lot and I still think there's a player there but you just can't defend that. He's absolutely zero threat at the minute, defenders must love coming up against him. It's the easiest game they could have.

I'm actually beginning to get tired of the "he gets no service" argument.

Any ball that's played up to him bounces off him and gives possession straight back to the opposition. So many of our attacks break down at his feet.

I rarely ever see him make a good run where I'm screaming at a player "go on, play Hojlund in!"

And it's happened so many times where balls have been played across the 6 yard box but he's hanging back by the penalty spot. Or he's made a run to the back post when he should be trying to get in front of the defender at the near post.

I'm beginning to think he's just not a very good footballer.

 

[FrankDrebin]

He's utterly dependent on his teammates creating a opportunity or goal for him. He hasn't got the technical capability to create something out of nothing.
There's nothing remotely special about him as a forward.

 

[cirilus]

I'm actually beginning to get tired of the "he gets no service" argument.

Any ball that's played up to him bounces off him and gives possession straight back to the opposition. So many of our attacks break down at his feet.

I rarely ever see him make a good run where I'm screaming at a player "go on, play Hojlund in!"

And it's happened so many times where balls have been played across the 6 yard box but he's hanging back by the penalty spot. Or he's made a run to the back post when he should be trying to get in front of the defender at the near post.

I'm beginning to think he's just not a very good footballer.

Exactly. He would work well with 2 strikes. He like to open wide, he like to touch and carry the ball until release.

Thats why he did some good cameos coming from the bench. He cant deliver playing centrally and with the back against the goal.

Like you said, not a top level footballer.

 

[Shane88]

Hojlund is special at times. I mean one can tell he's a great poacher and his finishing is better than Zirkzee. Sometimes he come out with good techniques to score so he's not a one trick pony like Antony. Plus he can run tremendously fast for such a buff striker.

He’s got everything but he’s not putting it all together. He really really needs to work on his hold up play

How?

What poaching? He never makes the right run to poach.

And "everything"? He has nothing but strength which he uses ineffectively and straight line speed which is only effective when he has lots of grass to run into. He gets that opportunity maybe once every 4 or 5 games and he inevitably wastes it.

He is a very poor footballer and we can't rely on him to be our striker. He needs to be moved on this summer. He will have had a 2 year audition by then and unless he has storming final 3 months of the season, which doesn't seem likely, he didn't take his chance. Unfortunate but we don't have the luxury of sentiment anymore.

 

[Mani]

No way he should be our lead striker next season, I would definitely keep him as 3rd or 4th choice where he would have less pressure to learn and train hard.His game IQ is poor atm at least give a try of watching great strikers of past which could help.
Worrying signs for us going into the remaining part of the season as our lead striker not producing any goal threat.