Yeah, I don’t think you have to convince many United fans that the squad shouldn’t be in this state. I’m just saying that after the transfer window had ended, it’s been inevitable that Højlund has gotten most of the minutes (especially considering Rashfords situation). As sad as that is, Højlund is our best option at no. 9.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 22
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 1
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
It will be a long way back. I mean we are at a stage where a 8th place finish let's you keep your job. That's how low we have fallen. Our squad is of mid-table quality and we are skint. Long road ahead.
He’s a shit CF. There’s no glossing over him anymore. His touch is incredibly crap and he’s not that quick either. He doesn’t get away from defenders and he misses too many chances. He’s like Lukaku without the goals.
Center-forwards transfers in the Premier League since summer 2023 (in euros, only those above 15m)
Havertz to Arsenal - 75m
Joao Pedro to Brighton - 32m
Nkunku to Chelsea - 60m
Jackson to Chelsea - 37m
Beto to Everton - 25m
Hojlund to United - 74m
Wood to Forest - 17m
Archer to Sheffield - 21m / back to Villa - 18m / off to Soton - 17m
Cunha to Wolves - 50m
Evanilson to Bournemouth - 37m
Unai to Bournemouth - 16m
Igor Thiago to Brentford - 33m
Rutter to Brighton - 46m
Nketiah to Palace - 29m
Delap to Ipswich - 18m
Zirkzee to United - 43m
Solanke to Spurs - 65m
Fullkrug to West Ham - 27m
Truth be told and trying to be objective, I don't know if there's a single team in the league that did a worse piece of business than us. We can complain about shortage of strikers and pretend there are none on the market, but even on this list you will find a lot of players that were potentially attainable by United, but went to another club.
Havertz to Arsenal - 75m
Joao Pedro to Brighton - 32m
Nkunku to Chelsea - 60m
Jackson to Chelsea - 37m
Beto to Everton - 25m
Hojlund to United - 74m
Wood to Forest - 17m
Archer to Sheffield - 21m / back to Villa - 18m / off to Soton - 17m
Cunha to Wolves - 50m
Evanilson to Bournemouth - 37m
Unai to Bournemouth - 16m
Igor Thiago to Brentford - 33m
Rutter to Brighton - 46m
Nketiah to Palace - 29m
Delap to Ipswich - 18m
Zirkzee to United - 43m
Solanke to Spurs - 65m
Fullkrug to West Ham - 27m
Truth be told and trying to be objective, I don't know if there's a single team in the league that did a worse piece of business than us. We can complain about shortage of strikers and pretend there are none on the market, but even on this list you will find a lot of players that were potentially attainable by United, but went to another club.
If we are skint in January surely at the very least we will look at some cheap loan deal or free agent as a forward option.
There has to be some available
There has to be some available
Seeing Zirkzee on that list as well is such a kick in the balls.
I doubt we would get 30m for him if he was put up for sale. He needs a spell in a lower league, and might stay there. Such a disappointment.
Another disastrous big money signing.
So... 70 odd million can get Newcastle Alexander Isak. For about the same money, we get Hojlund. I, for one, am feeling very jealous. Other than that, it would actually be funny if it wasn't happening at our club. Just when you're ready to get rid of both Rashford and Martial, after putting them on these stupid wages, you can't sign anyone else because you've already spent 100 million on Hojlund and Zirkzee. You can't make that stuff up. Please bring back the days when Liverpool were breaking the bank to sign Andy Carroll.
Had we signed Isak, he would’ve been shite. That’s the state of the club. I can’t explain it, i don’t know how, but it is what it is. The moment a player puts a united shirt, he becomes a failure.
Seeing Isak up front for Newcastle just puts into perspective how limited Rasmus is.
And Rasmus cost more. Madness.
Our transfer policy over the past 10 years is going to be studied for years to come.
And Rasmus cost more. Madness.
Our transfer policy over the past 10 years is going to be studied for years to come.
I see where you're coming from, and things definitely look bleak, but, ultimately, it's the players who make any system work. You can't let them off the hook so easy. Watching both last night, only one looked like a proper footballer, and it wasn't Hojlund. I'm not talking solely about goals but movement, timing your runs, occupying the right pockets of space, have an eye to set up a good one-two, creating chances for yourself etc. All these things Isak could do since he was a teenager (before the goals came) - an unfinished product - hence the price tag. I remember him being the only player on the pitch, alongside Ibrahimović, who understood how football works in a godawful Swedish side. On the other hand, we spent 70 million on Hojlund... for what exactly?
We shouldn't be signing 70 million pound children though, whether that's Isak or Hojlund. We should be signing them once they're ripe, for 100 million plus. Let a smaller team develop them into sure things. Big clubs don't develop players, they fecking win things.
No wonder we are 14th. Our starting striker, who scored 2 goals in league, "did ok because he run so much". Bloody hell, our standards are now even bellow rock bottom.
You watched Isak yesterday, right? Guy gets the ball, easily dribbles past two defenders and shoots. Guy gets the ball with defender on his back, he controls the ball, gets free of defender and starts attack. Also, when was needed he was on right place in penalty box.
When will people learn finally? Top class striker makes huge difference. Same as top class playmaker in midfield.
It's been the case for a long time. I remember saying that we could have signed Messi and made him look like Lingard. Nobody has an answer for it. It's like we are cursed.
There is some truth to that but the poster you are responding to has a good point also.
Isak spent 4 years learning his trade at a stable and well run club in Real Sociedad where there was continuity and a plan to develop his natural abilities. He moved to Newcastle two years ago and has again had the benefit of playing for a settled side, with a settled coaching staff and a clear style of play. His environment at both clubs was conductive to developing his potential and setting him up for success.
Over the past 3 years, Rasmus has played for 4 different clubs, in 4 different countries, with a multitude of different coaching staffs and playing styles landing up at United during what has been even by our standards an especially dreadful 18 months of terrible football, with no identity and another manager fired. This is definitely not setting him up for success and that this happened between the ages of 18 and 21 means it is no surprise that he looks so confused over how best to play his role in the team.
This is not to say that Hojlund is better than Isak or vice versa, just making clear that the environment players find themselves in has a lot to do with whether they succeed or fail. Right now, this club ruins players. I hope that Amorim can turn the tide in this respect and it is one of the reasons I am fully behind his determination to stick to his tactics and principles. Players like Rasmus, Yoro, Garnacho and Amad are young enough that it is not too late to get them on the right track but that will only happen if we can establish a real identity and continuity.
Isak was a solid player when Newcastle bought him, we bought potential. It really isn't his fault anything that is happening, you can see he gives it his all, he really does but the quality simply isn't there yet. You are completely correct that United is probably a very bad place to develop but he shouldn't have been made first choice striker, it's unfair to him and to the club. If he had any potential we are throwing it away.
Honestly, forgetting everything else for one moment, if you just take a look at Hojlund's baseline goal and assist stats it's absolutely mind-boggling that we spent £64 million on him. I know that they don't paint the whole picture but I think it's fair to say that, when spending that much money on a striker, it should be supported by some solid empirical evidence that they're capable of a high-level of output in a top-tier league. I'm going to get a reputation for being a number bod with all the tables I've been posting of late but here's a birds-eye view of Hojlund's output prior to joining United (source is FBREF):
Now, given that Hojlund was 20 when we signed him, it'd be fair to point out that he was signed for his potential far more than just for his current ability. This is correct but does also miss the fact that, when Hojlund was signed, we didn't have an alternative option up front that would allow him the requisite breathing space to properly adapt to the Premier League and potentially afford him the opportunity to go out on a loan which I think he probably needs to develop himself into a player who is ready to be starting for a club which aspires to finish even in the top-half of the Premier League table. We then went and compounded the problem by signing Zirkzee, yet another striker who hadn't yet demonstrated himself capable of a high-level of output in a top-tier league, meaning we were left with two strikers which we'd spent a combined sum of around £104 million on and neither had ever proven themselves capable of the output we'd likely require to finish in the top half of the Premier League, let alone the Champions League spots.
| Club (League) | Minutes Played | Goals | Assists | Goals per 90 | Assists per 90 |
| FC Copenhagen (Danish Superliga) | 471 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Sturm Graz (Austrian Bundesliga) | 1554 | 9 | 3 | 0.52 | 0.17 |
| Atalanta (Serie A) | 1834 | 9 | 2 | 0.44 | 0.10 |
| Overall | 3859 | 18 | 5 | 0.42 | 0.12 |
Now, given that Hojlund was 20 when we signed him, it'd be fair to point out that he was signed for his potential far more than just for his current ability. This is correct but does also miss the fact that, when Hojlund was signed, we didn't have an alternative option up front that would allow him the requisite breathing space to properly adapt to the Premier League and potentially afford him the opportunity to go out on a loan which I think he probably needs to develop himself into a player who is ready to be starting for a club which aspires to finish even in the top-half of the Premier League table. We then went and compounded the problem by signing Zirkzee, yet another striker who hadn't yet demonstrated himself capable of a high-level of output in a top-tier league, meaning we were left with two strikers which we'd spent a combined sum of around £104 million on and neither had ever proven themselves capable of the output we'd likely require to finish in the top half of the Premier League, let alone the Champions League spots.
I have been a big fan of his and still have some faith he can succeed although he desperately needs to understudy a more experienced striker for a couple of years. That said, we overpaid massively. He clearly has talent as PSG were also looking at him when we signed him but equally PSG, who have much deeper pockets than us, dropped their interest once the price went above 50M.
Yeah I've heard that he ''pulled off a shot off'' and ''more involved than Zirkee' ''put himself in a good positiion to recieve a pass'' as justifications for keeping this donkey as our main striker. I've also heard he's big and strong, he's big but definitely not strong as he gets rag dolled by any decent defender and is wrestling on the floor as if e's auditoning for Vince McMahon's WWF. Macheda was better and more dynamic then this guy and he was moved on because he wasn't simply good and consistent enough at elitelevelI swear to God Hugil is better than this dude, if Hojlund came through the academy we wouldn't bat an eyelid with him disappearing and not hearing about him again like what happened to Charlie Savage, Zidane Iqbul and Hannibal. And it's a joke there are still fans convincing themselves he's going to suddenly blossom into Harry Kane/Rooney level as soon as he reaches 24/25 and keep using '''he's only 21''' excuse even then he's 22 in a months time, god knows what excuses are going to made once that excuse is washed up
I swear to God Hugil is better than this dude, if Hojlund came through the academy we wouldn't bat an eyelid with him disappearing and not hearing about him again like what happened to Charlie Savage, Zidane Iqbul and Hannibal. And it's a joke there are still fans convincing themselves he's going to suddenly blossom into Harry Kane/Rooney level as soon as he reaches 24/25 and keep using '''he's only 21''' excuse even then he's 22 in a months time, god knows what excuses are going to made once that excuse is washed up
you seem tense, calm down.
I'm calm af buddy, I let it play out considering since I joined I told fans on here thats this dude was never good enough and was bombarded with the usual ''he's only 21'' and there apparently no other world class strikers showed elite ability until they turned 24/25 apparently and we should wait untii we're in the championship to find out if this donkey ever comes good 3 more years down the line and keep giving him excuses and blame his team mates for not giving him service i.e spoon feeding him the ball for him to tap in to hell with movement and creating your own chances, only generational talent can do that apparently. So apparently a strikers job at our club is to sit in the box and wait for others to pass the ball into their feet so they can toe pok it in and then that's classified world class potential.
I'd challenge you to find a post after the Newcastle game saying that Højlund should be our main striker for the long term. Personally I haven't seen any.
He made it up, nobody has said that
Who said these excuses were made after Newcastle game? I think the penny has finally dropped with most regarding his standard and limited ability. The excuses I quoted were peddled out after the Wolves game where he did nothing of any value but desperate fanboys clutched at straws saying he made a good run and pulled off a shot on target to try and justify his place in the first team and complained about garnacho not passing him the ball
I more than most wanted this guy to prove me wrong, as last season when he had that purple spell, I wasn't convinced, very good finisher but his all round game from strength, heading, passing, ball retention, movement is severely lacking to be anywhere good enough to be playing as main man for an elite team. And most of those attritutes cannot be improved upon, you either have it or you don't. For Example Jackson for chelsea will never become a clinical goal score neither will Nunez, likewise Hojlund will never learn how to better control a football and learn positioning awareness and natural striker instinct.
The best thing about him is he works hard and can finish when given a chance. He's simply a glorified Alan Smith
No way can he be relied upon. For such a big bloke, he's knocked off the ball so easily. His hold up play is non existent and his 1st touch is that of someone trying to use a pinball flipper after 10 pints.
Agree. We develop academy players, buying a kid for 70 million to develop is actually stupid
I don’t want to defend Hojlund because I have not seen anything special so far. But to be fair to him, he is playing in a very rigid team that does not know how to play football. I have not enjoyed most of our games over the last years. Forget winning, the football is so poor and this definitely impacts someone as young as rasmus. I agree with the isak/hojlund comparison you made, but let’s look at the whole team. Newcastle (in the first half) were playing very fluid football which made everyone look good. We were passing sideways for 90 minutes.
Fair enough, I thought "pulled off a shot" was a reference to his chance against Newcastle. Still, I'd love to see a post after the Wolves or even the Bournemouth game saying saying he should be our long-term striker. I simply don't think that anyone posted that, like you claimed.
I think you didn’t get my point. Isak is world class and he showed it yesterday. Very comfortable in a team with players clear on their roles. Fantastic player no doubt. What i meant is that over the years, all players we signed struggled. I guess we’re cursed
And this is where you lose any credibility.
Hugill is playing on loan in League one and has 4 career goals across 3 loan spells despite being the same age as Rasmus. Hojlund scored more goals than that just in last seasons CL and already has 7 goals this season. You are entitled to your opinion and we can all see that Rasmus is not at the required level, at least not yet, but you cannot expect to be taken seriously when you talk nonsense like that.
League one is all you need to know to understand he's playing with sunday league players. Hojlund only scored 9 goals in Serie A. I've followed Hugill from academy days and he has better movement, can actually header and uses his pace and just as good a finisher as Hojlund. Put him in the same united team and he'd produce the same numbers even better. let's put this in perspective zirkee as two less league goals than Hojlund and less starts and everyone considers him trash
Put Hojlund in league one and h'e'd do nothing.
I am not sure it is worth engaging with this but lets give it a go. Hojlund has 23 goals in 64 games for United, not pulling up tress but not a terrible return and we are a bloody awful team right now. Hugill has not been able to keep his place in the Wigan Athletic side and has 2 goals to his name halfway through the season and yet you think he is much better?
This is not the hill to die on pal. You don't like Rasmus, fine. You think we can do better, fine. You think Joe Hugill is a PL striker, you are a laughing stock.
Oh my what a way to put words in my mouth. No where did I suggest Hugil is a prem level striker. Rasmus has has camisero, mainoo, bruno, amad, eriksen supplying him and hugil has sunday league midfielders surrounding him who no one has ever heard of. Hojlund goals have come against mid table teams and factory workers in Europa. The only top 4 team he's ever scored against in the prem is Tottenham at home last season. Hugil in a better team would be putting in a better performance, you seem to judge football on simple stats with no context.
I mean it's a pretty dumb argument because the flavour of the month Gyökeres wasn't doing any big numbers and pulling up trees for Coventry in the championship but when he moved to a better team he showed his ability and you would be crazy to think that Guy is not superior to Hojlund
I don't need to look at paper stats to know Hugil's all round game is better as he is better aerially, knows how to use his pace, better movement and instincts and is just as good as a finisher. This isn't about a personal dislike for hojlund it's simply about accepting the fact we've been scammed for 72 million player who is medocre and any time you point it out you get hounded by his fanboys who think a few more years and he's going to be good enough when he has fundamental flaws which won't ever improve with age.
Are you at least open to the idea that Højlund also has to go against PL defenders, whereas Hugill is going up against defenders no one has ever heard of?
League One is not the Sunday League no matter how many times you say it and continuing to repeat that line betrays your ignorance of the game, but leaving that aside it surely says something that the coaching staff at this supposed Sunday League side he is playing for have not given him a start since October and are supposedly considering terminating the loan in January.
Your analysis of the goals Rasmus has scored conveniently left out the Champions League where he scored a brace against those well known minnows Bayern Munich last season, he also scored against Villa, Newcastle and Brighton last year who are not exactly the mid table duffers you seem to think he only scores against.
I am totally ok with the idea that Rasmus has flaws in his game, I see them just as others do but sadly he has been terribly coached for the last 18 months as evidenced by the fact that the coaches in question were sacked. I genuinely believe he should not be our first choice striker right now but understudying someone else and that is a direct failing of the club who overpaid and had no real strategy for his development when they knew they were not buying the finished article.
I am not ok with the notion that Hugill is better because it is a fantasy that exists in your mind alone. You have no monopoly on watching Academy games and nobody is identifying Joe as a future first team player here. More to the point professional coaches from pretty much every club in the football pyramid will be aware of him and will also know that we would probably bite their hand off if they offered us just a nominal fee for him and yet not one of them has done so. I am going to assume that professional scouts and coaches are better judges than you and their judgement seems to be that Hugill might just have a career in the lower leagues if he can improve on what he is currently offering but right now he looks to be headed on the same trajectory as D'Mani Mellor.
Just watching Delap vs. Chelsea. This guy is Hojlund's age, but clearly superior.
Better touch, can stretch defences with the right runs, uses his body well to shield the ball and bring others into play, draw fouls when isolated, etc.; better passer. And I don't even think he's top, top (yet). These are just CF fundamentals.
I remember going onto RAWK back during the good times to see how they overrated their players. Who can forget Dirk Kuyt, the best defensive winger in the world? I fear we are doing the same. Let's not let the shirt/badge fool us. Comparing Delap and Hojlund, I know whom I'd rather have leading the line for us.
Wasn't there a story in The Athletic about a scout at the club (holdover from Fergie's time) who kept knocking back recruitment recommendations because he kept saying: 'Not good enough'? A reason for letting him go apparently. Maybe he was onto something seeing the absolute dross we've gathered at the football club.
Cunha, Pedro, and Wood, for less money than we paid for Hojlund and Zirkzee, and probably all on less money combined aswell.
In every area of the pitch you could easily bring up a similar list and say the same thing.
Honestly one of the worst and most non-sensical bits of business I've seen.
I remember some people shouting down any that spoke on how ridiculous it would be to sign him as our number one striker. He literally does not have a track record of anything, yet he is Manchester United's number 9. It is one of the biggest leaps I have seen and with no clear reasoning behind it. He may become great some day, but it's not as though he was some sort of Neymar, Rooney, Zlatan type of young player whose game was clearly special and some day you'd expect goals and assists tallies to grow - he is pretty basic and is in no way qualified to be the number one striker at a club above mid-table. It's not even as though he is a Chido Obi or Bojan or Giuseppe Rossi just destroying youth level and you're hoping he translates it. The fact that it was him, Kolo Muani and Ramos getting bids of huge figures, and Nunez before them makes me quite sad looking at the state of forwards in football currently.
I sincerely hope he comes good, but he is looking like a broke mans Lukaku right now and Lukaku wasn't good enough. We need at least 2 quality forward options ahead of him. We likely need to bring in at least 1 CF and 2 versatile forwards that can score and assists at a good clip.