Rashford - New contract or sell?

What to do with Marcus Rashford...

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Dion said:
This isn't some case that needed a crystal ball, it's common sense.
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Its not common sense when you are paying someone £250k+ per week.

Then it becomes an argument of how much their value will drop if they have another poor season. If Rashfords form continued into this season from the last then his transfer value would plummet. He would be on a wage that was ridiculous for his value. It has all worked out for the best but if it hadn't hindsight would be telling us we should have sold him last summer.

As to his back issue, thats by the by. If he never recovers from that then he never recovers. You don't pay someone £250k/week because they used to be good no matter what the reason.
 
mctrials23 said:
Its not common sense when you are paying someone £250k+ per week.

Then it becomes an argument of how much their value will drop if they have another poor season. If Rashfords form continued into this season from the last then his transfer value would plummet. He would be on a wage that was ridiculous for his value. It has all worked out for the best but if it hadn't hindsight would be telling us we should have sold him last summer.

As to his back issue, thats by the by. If he never recovers from that then he never recovers. You don't pay someone £250k/week because they used to be good no matter what the reason.
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You do pay them if you think there's a very good chance that they will be an excellent player for 5+ years and their current problems are temporary ones.

There's a long list of players who've had bad injuries, a couple of seasons of struggle then recovered fully. That list is disproportionately young players who look after themselves well, of which Rashford is undoubtably one.
 
Dion said:
You do pay them if you think there's a very good chance that they will be an excellent player for 5+ years and their current problems are temporary ones.
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Out of interest, how long would you keep a player you are paying £250k/week when they are playing like someone worth less than half that? 2 years? 3 Years?
 
mctrials23 said:
Out of interest, how long would you keep a player you are paying £250k/week when they are playing like someone worth less than half that? 2 years? 3 Years?
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As long as it took to be sure they weren't capable of recovering and continuing on their development path.

Del Pier had 2 extremely difficult seasons after his injury. I don't think that was particularly exceptional.
 
mctrials23 said:
Out of interest, how long would you keep a player you are paying £250k/week when they are playing like someone worth less than half that? 2 years? 3 Years?
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Honestly, just stop. He’s reportedly on £200k a week. Why exaggerate it? Sancho is on miles more and was even worse last season, without the back up of having been excellent for us for the past two seasons and without the excuse of having had an operation. Should we have got rid of him after one bad season as well?

You called it wrong. It was highly likely you were going to be wrong. End of.
 
Strelok said:
Great then :D

Even at his lowest I'd never doubt his talent. And I refused to think he has some attitude issues because from his breaking through imo one of his biggest strength is his mental strength. Lad is quite right in the head.

I was so gutted and sad to accept the thought he'd no longer have a future here back then. What a waste of talent and a big big shame for us if it was the case. He is one of us.

Tbh till today I still don't understand what's wrong with him last season. Probably only him and ETH does. But I'm super happy with him turning things around and looking happy again. Let's just move on and enjoy this guys. And give the lad some slack if one day he unfortunately goes through another bad period. Long may it last :D
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Sometimes players just have stuff going in their lives that doesn't make the news and affects their performances negatively.
 
Doracle said:
Honestly, just stop. He’s reportedly on £200k a week. Why exaggerate it? Sancho is on miles more and was even worse last season, without the back up of having been excellent for us for the past two seasons and without the excuse of having had an operation. Should we have got rid of him after one bad season as well?

You called it wrong. It was highly likely you were going to be wrong. End of.
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So how long would you be prepared to give Sancho?
 
Loon said:
Wanted him and the rest of them gone after last season. Wanted Ten Hag to build a squad he could trust. He obviously saw something in Rashford and Rashford has reacted to it. Fair play, I was wrong. Incredible turnaround for the man.
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Pretty much. He looked broken last season and he was one of the worst offenders in terms of effort. Something that couldn't be fixed with good coaching and tactics. Hence, why I voted sell. Never in a million years would I have thought he would have this kind of season.
 
Doracle said:
Honestly, just stop. He’s reportedly on £200k a week. Why exaggerate it? Sancho is on miles more and was even worse last season, without the back up of having been excellent for us for the past two seasons and without the excuse of having had an operation. Should we have got rid of him after one bad season as well?

You called it wrong. It was highly likely you were going to be wrong. End of.
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So hes reportedly on £200k/week but I am exaggerating when I say £250k despite there being reports for £200-250k/week. Even ignoring that, £200k/week is a lot of money.

As to Sancho, I would 100% want to sell him if he didn't come good after 2 season if he wasn't showing clear progression. I think Sancho is a cracking player but he was never going to thrive under Ole because he played the polar opposite type of football to the style Sancho thrives in. If we still had Ole now and he was still underperforming I would sell him because there is no point having a player that doesn't suit your manager.

We will almost certainly sell Maguire in the summer for that very reason. He is a good CB in the right team but United are not that team and he is on a big wage for a player not delivering. I'm pretty sure that I said we should see how he does under the new manager when this was discussed last season. I be selling him this summer if he hadn't turned it around.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
So how long would you be prepared to give Sancho?
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That’s tricky as I think Sancho has a lot of promise and I like the fact we are using him as a number 10 at times now. I’m expecting him to come good. Even if he doesn’t kick on this season, given his age and prior form, I’d probably try and get him a loan to a premier league club next season in the hope that he could thrive and come back stronger. In short, I’d give him a lot of chance to come good.

The difference I guess is that he’s on a long term contract. If it expired in 2024, I’d only be negotiating on significantly lower wages currently and assessing the position very carefully this summer (which is basically where I was on Rashford at the start of this season).
 
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Forevergiggs1 said:
So how long would you be prepared to give Sancho?
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This is Alessandro Del Piero's career at Juventus. How long after his injury at the start of the 98-99 season would you have given him before you sold him?
 
Dion said:
tBpTUiz.png

This is Alessandro Del Piero's career at Juventus. How long after his injury at the start of the 98-99 season would you have given him before you sold him?
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That's actually a good question, even though the issues with Sancho has nothing to do with injuries.

Personally I think its fair to give younger player more patience for around 2 years or at max 3. If you went shite for 3 years straight, chance is, you are likely going to be shite for rest of your career.

But Rashford has been in poor form after his injuries for 18 months, now he is world class. So we should all keep this in mind too.

Sancho is currently at 18 months of poor form, lets see if he could turn this around soon.
 
mctrials23 said:
Its not common sense when you are paying someone £250k+ per week.

Then it becomes an argument of how much their value will drop if they have another poor season. If Rashfords form continued into this season from the last then his transfer value would plummet. He would be on a wage that was ridiculous for his value. It has all worked out for the best but if it hadn't hindsight would be telling us we should have sold him last summer.

As to his back issue, thats by the by. If he never recovers from that then he never recovers. You don't pay someone £250k/week because they used to be good no matter what the reason.
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Exactly, like I said Liverpool would have been ridiculed if they held on to torres hoping for a return to form, when there was a 50m offer on the table, it's fine to say in hindsight that we should have rejected any sale and in hindsight I agree, but at the time he looked like he'd totally lost any ability, not didn't fit in tactically, couldn't beat a man, had a shit first touch looked like he couldn't do the basics.

Now I'm delighted he's come back to form, but to ridicule people who though we should sell when he wasn't playing well and there was no guarantee he'd ever get back to form is just wrong
 
Whatever we think is of course irrelevant. I would give him the contract because I am quite sure that Erik Ten Hag has rejuvenated him and got him back to his best and in fact to even better than ever. I think ETH will do the same with Sancho and could do so with almost any player. ETH is the best thing to happen to our club in a very long time.
 
jm99 said:
Exactly, like I said Liverpool would have been ridiculed if they held on to torres hoping for a return to form, when there was a 50m offer on the table, it's fine to say in hindsight that we should have rejected any sale and in hindsight I agree, but at the time he looked like he'd totally lost any ability, not didn't fit in tactically, couldn't beat a man, had a shit first touch looked like he couldn't do the basics.

Now I'm delighted he's come back to form, but to ridicule people who though we should sell when he wasn't playing well and there was no guarantee he'd ever get back to form is just wrong
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Torres was 2 months away from his 27th birthday when he was sold to Chelsea and was desperately trying to leave. Those two situations don't seem strong comparative points.
 
RedRonaldo said:
That's actually a good question, even though the issues with Sancho has nothing to do with injuries.

Personally I think its fair to give younger player more patience for around 2 years or at max 3. If you went shite for 3 years straight, chance is, you are likely going to be shite for rest of your career.

But Rashford has been in poor form after his injuries for 18 months, now he is world class. So we should all keep this in mind too.

Sancho is currently at 18 months of poor form, lets see if he could turn this around soon.
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This just isn’t accurate for Rashford. We know he was playing through injury at the end of the 20/21 season and he stupidly delayed his operation until after the Euros.

He returned in October and his last match of that season was in April, so he had 6 months of poor form after his operation. That’s the real period of time we are looking at on which people were making a decision to sell one of our star players over the previous couple of years.
 
Doracle said:
This just isn’t accurate for Rashford. We know he was playing through injury at the end of the 20/21 season and he stupidly delayed his operation until after the Euros.

He returned in October and his last match of that season was in April, so he had 6 months of poor form after his operation. That’s the real period of time we are looking at on which people were making a decision to sell one of our star players over the previous couple of years.
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Yes but I did mean 18 months since his injury which happened at around end of 2020/early 2021, not after he was back from his operation. And sure you may still argue its 16 months instead of 18 months.
 
Dion said:
Torres was 2 months away from his 27th birthday when he was sold to Chelsea and was desperately trying to leave. Those two situations don't seem strong comparative points.
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It wasn't meant to be like for like, the point was sometimes a player will be absolutely brilliant, then go through some bad form and you get an offer for them, sometimes they'll regain their form and you were wise to turn it down, or they never do and you look like idiots for turning it down. It's great saying with the benefit of hindsight that it was a no brainer keeping it but it could have gone differently and we'd look stupid for having turned down 60m
 
jm99 said:
It wasn't meant to be like for like, the point was sometimes a player will be absolutely brilliant, then go through some bad form and you get an offer for them, sometimes they'll regain their form and you were wise to turn it down, or they never do and you look like idiots for turning it down. It's great saying with the benefit of hindsight that it was a no brainer keeping it but it could have gone differently and we'd look stupid for having turned down 60m
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I don't think anyone looks back at Tottenham and thinks it was a no brainer for them not to accept 30-40m for Dele Ali even if he never recovered his form for them.

There's inherent risk in trusting the development of youth players, the risk for Marcus wasn't exceptionally high and the risks weren't low. To find a player who was as good as Marcus in 2019-20 would have cost more than £60m, and probably not far off his wage demands.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone else a little worried that Rashford’s recent form might be a touch of the Mark Viduka? There’s a very long list of players who save their best form for contract renewal…
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That thought has crossed my mind. But I think this time it is probably in large part due to EtH's coaching team's doing a great job.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone else a little worried that Rashford’s recent form might be a touch of the Mark Viduka? There’s a very long list of players who save their best form for contract renewal…
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The celebration is him doing the maths in his head as to how much he's now worth per week after each goal. It all makes sense.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone else a little worried that Rashford’s recent form might be a touch of the Mark Viduka? There’s a very long list of players who save their best form for contract renewal…
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Adebayor turned into prime Messi around contract renewal time.
 
Traub said:
Adebayor turned into prime Messi around contract renewal time.
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There’s loads of them that have done it over the years. Look world class, sign a fat new contract, then immediately go to shite. Always seemed nuts to me that a footballer might be capable of playing that well all the time yet somehow decide not but, you know, footballers…
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone else a little worried that Rashford’s recent form might be a touch of the Mark Viduka? There’s a very long list of players who save their best form for contract renewal…
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No - he was excellent in his two years straight after renewing before and has had one poor year out of 4 under this contract. His improvement this season is entirely in keeping with a world class player coming to their peak under a good coaching team.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There’s loads of them that have done it over the years. Look world class, sign a fat new contract, then immediately go to shite. Always seemed nuts to me that a footballer might be capable of playing that well all the time yet somehow decide not but, you know, footballers…
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Yeah there are few players like that, especially Matic for Manutd but Rashford played very well after his contract renewal. He had his best season of his career after renewal.

Don't think this form is due to contract renewal, it's more to do with him coming back to his full fitness, EtH's tactical set up.
 
The "it was the right choice at the time" brigade really can't stop embarrassing themselves, can they? It doesn't matter how many times they repeat it, it will never be true: it was not a matter of blind faith. He had been excellent for United before + had and played through injury + the team in general and the coaching in particular were absolutely terrible = the right decision was to at the very least give him another chance once he was reasonably injury-free and the team was reasonably well coached. When those two conditions were met, he became once again the player we're now enjoying, as he was always very likely to. It wasn't really that insightful to want to keep him, it was just really dumb to want to get rid of him.
 
Rashford, Martial, de Gea are so typical for United in the recent years. Pogba and Shaw to a lesser extent.

All good players in their right, and key players even that are so on and off that you can't greatly rely on them. But when they are on, they are so good that you can't even think about getting rid.

Rashford will not be a player that plays well for the majority of matches, on a consistent basis. But he makes stuff happen and is decisive often, pick your poison.
 
This thread really should be locked during matches to protect people from themselves.
 
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