Rank our post-SAF managers

One thing about Moyes. He was overwhelmingly the fans favourite when he was appointed don't forget.

I didn't like how he was disrespected following his appointment he tried his best he just wasn't the right fit. But the intention behind Moyes was to appoint a long term manager, not join the merry go round that everyone else was on of three or four seasons then a change.

The pressure to remove Moyes was so much that no time was given to finding a successor to SAF and so it went on.
 
Objectively speaking, judging by coaching ability alone:

Mourinho
Ten Hag
Van Gaal
Moyes
Solskjaer

That said, all of them were horrible fit for United that aspires to return to Sir Alex level and style, except for Erik.

Ironically he is the only one who has the right background to bring United to what it should be long-term. Unfortunately it is not working at all, for reasons of both: he is acting weird, and club is run horribly
 
AshRK said:
So basically you are just basing on this season (which has more than half a season to go) and are totally not considering what happened last season. Strange way to judge someone. Unless we are looking at which season was bad. In that case let the season atleast be over.

Strangely in gw 19 under Moyes, we were 6th , just like this season with 34 points. 3 points more. Hardly special. In fact I will argue that's even more worse considering he was taking over a side which had champion players who knew how to win titles. Unless now you will argue this squad is better than that.
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We've crashed out of the CL. That's done and dusted. If he ends up doing well in the league it's not like it is set in stone. Any current manager will be able to climb and fall.
 
PSV said:
We've crashed out of the CL. That's done and dusted. If he ends up doing well in the league it's not like it is set in stone. Any current manager will be able to climb and fall.
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Yes we have crashed out and that is definitely a black mark on eth. But still doesn't make him a worse manager for United than Moyes who was awful from start to finish, out of depth.

As for Moyes didn't get much signings. Looking at players he signed , I am glad he didn't get to waste more money. Would have signed jagielka or oviedo. The fact that he was showing ferdinand and vidic videos of Jagielka tells us everything.
 
Managers:
Mourinho
Ten Hag
Van Gaal
Moyes
Ole

Job they did here:
Ten Hag
Mourinho
Ole
Van Gaal
Moyes
 
AshRK said:
Yes we have crashed out and that is definitely a black mark on eth. But still doesn't make him a worse manager for United than Moyes who was awful from start to finish, out of depth.

As for Moyes didn't get much signings. Looking at players he signed , I am glad he didn't get to waste more money. Would have signed jagielka or oviedo. The fact that he was showing ferdinand and vidic videos of Jagielka tells us everything.
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and Fergie signed Zaha for him and agreed terms with Thiago. Both were what United needed.
so Moyes came with 2 new signings indeed.

Moyes just scrapped signing Thiago and placed Zaha in the fridge just because of his "why am I tucked with players I never asked for" ego.
 
AshRK said:
One took a team that won the title with 89 points and were one of the top European clubs abd made them finish 7th, yes not 3rd or 4th, 7th with 64 points.

The other took over a side that finished 6th with 58 points and made them finish 3rd with 75 points with a league cup and fa cup finals and europa qf.

Yeah but moyes did better than eth.
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Ten Hag, in his best season, managed to lose 7-0 to Liverpool.

And that's just one example in a very long list of negative records. After spending 400 million.
 
Mourinho - Before he went a bit mental like normal
LVG - When it looked like was going somewhere, and before it got constipated
Ole - Longest reign? Didn't watch, got bored with how things were going by then.
Moyes - Nobody wanted to sign for him
Ten Hag - Even the people he bought in don't seem to want play for him, but can he turn it around? Maybe, I voted sack in the thread, but maybe, just maybe, he'll turn the tide finally now the cloud has been lifted.

Best caretaker: Carrick > Giggs > Ralf (AFAIK)
 
noodlehair said:
ETH - First season did pretty much everything right. Turned a mess into a competitive side that finished 3rd on merit and won a trophy, and didn't go out of a single competition without coming close to winning it and putting up a massive fight. Second season he has looked to build on this by seemingly going completely insane. Ongoing saga. Rating pending.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Maybe we should view this differently? Which of these managers had the worst 19 game phase?

Moyes:
- 2nd half of 13-14 season: 30 points
LVG:
- 1st half of 15-16 season: 31 points
Mourinho:
- 1st half of 18-19 season: 26 points in 17 games ~ 29 points in 19 games (he was sacked after 17 games, so linearly extrapolating here)
Ole:
- 1st half of 19-20 season: 28 points in 19 games
- 1st half of 21-22 season: 17 points in 12 games when he was sacked ~ 27 points after 19 games
Rangnick:
- 2nd half of 21-22 season: 27 points
ETH:
- 1st half of 23-24 season: 31 points

So that equates LVG and ETH as having the "lowest" low, assuming 2nd half doesn't get worse under ETH. For both of these managers, this low phase also coincided with significant injuries (someone correct me if I got LVG injury timing wrong)

I think having been through a lot of these crappy phases, I do not think our current low is "that" bad. We're still 6th, and have hope that Spurs will be Spurs and Villa will slip up at some point.
 
Moyes really screwed us up and set us up for the current situation we are in.

1) Failed to basically realise we needed a rebuild in the team, and 3-4 new players. Would have helped if he kept the existing coaching team

2) Transfers - basically did no scouting, it was from Bale and Fabregas to Fellaini and Baines. Apparently dithered on all the club's other targets because he didn't know them.

3) Basically destroyed all of the aura and winning mentality around the club in a single season.

LvG then came in and a lot of his transfers were really suspect. We basically ended up in a situation where he ended up dropping or selling most of his signings and had a really hollowed out squad of ex SAF players and new academy players. We played some great possession football but basically didn't have enough quality upfront and struggled as a result.
 
Eugenius said:
Moyes really screwed us up and set us up for the current situation we are in.

1) Failed to basically realise we needed a rebuild in the team, and 3-4 new players. Would have helped if he kept the existing coaching team

2) Transfers - basically did no scouting, it was from Bale and Fabregas to Fellaini and Baines. Apparently dithered on all the club's other targets because he didn't know them.

3) Basically destroyed all of the aura and winning mentality around the club in a single season.

LvG then came in and a lot of his transfers were really suspect. We basically ended up in a situation where he ended up dropping or selling most of his signings and had a really hollowed out squad of ex SAF players and new academy players. We played some great possession football but basically didn't have enough quality upfront and struggled as a result.
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LVG did far more damage than Moyes to the squad. The first thing he did was veto the signing of Kroos.
 
AshRK said:
One took a team that won the title with 89 points and were one of the top European clubs abd made them finish 7th, yes not 3rd or 4th, 7th with 64 points.

The other took over a side that finished 6th with 58 points and made them finish 3rd with 75 points with a league cup and fa cup finals and europa qf.

Yeah but moyes did better than eth.
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A finished team. Obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes. Losing Scholes was a massive, massive issue.
 
Leftback99 said:
LVG did far more damage than Moyes to the squad. The first thing he did was veto the signing of Kroos.
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If only Moyes realised we needed a player like Toni Kroos - it would have solved so many problems. Unfortunately he clearly failed to spot this and set up a transfer….
 
It still amazes me there has not been a throughly researched book going into the Ferguson/Moyes years.
 
AshRK said:
And even then Moyes vetoed thiago and went for fellaini. That tells you everything about him.
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We went for Fellaini as Woodward failed to get any other deals over the line despite flying around like a plonker in his little jet.
 
1. Solskjaer

2. Mourinho

3. Ten Hag

4. LVG

5. Moyes

(of course Ten Hag could rise with a strong 2nd half to the season or an impressive 3rd season if still in charge)
 
1. Solskjær
2. Mourinho (reluctantly, can't stand him)
3. Van Gaal
4. Ten Hag
5. Moyes

Hopefully Ten Hag will climb to the top.
 
Mourinho, Ole and ETH are a little bit less shit than LVG and Moyes.
All of those names bar ETH are unquestionably crap managers, end of discussion.

ETH I don't know yet,
I'm willing to watch him at his next 1-2 clubs once he gets the sack here,
before concluding that he is overall a bad manager.

He's certainly doing a very bad job and I don't think he will ever succeed here.
Shit football bar the odd exception, shit signings, Shit costs of signings (If he insists on Antony as the easiest example, then he also has to take the blame for the ludicrous price),
All over the place tactically this season.

At this stage, saying that he'll do well at another club with easier circumstances is nothing but a gamble.
Could have been said about Poch, Potter... every "up-and-coming manager" really.
 
NewGlory said:
Objectively speaking, judging by coaching ability alone:

Mourinho
Ten Hag
Van Gaal
Moyes
Solskjaer

That said, all of them were horrible fit for United that aspires to return to Sir Alex level and style, except for Erik.

Ironically he is the only one who has the right background to bring United to what it should be long-term. Unfortunately it is not working at all, for reasons of both: he is acting weird, and club is run horribly
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It didn't work for Sir.Alex in the first few years either. He finished 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th in his first 4 full seasons but we had far sighted executives who could see the work he was otherwise doing and stopped bothering about fan perception. ETH won't be sacked for this exact reason. Second season drop after an over performing first season is quite common.
 
I have LVG ranked below Jose and Ole just to make that clear, but I do think he had the best transfers overall.

Shaw, Herrera and Blind were good transfers in my opinion. Yes, he signed many flops but so did every other manager. Another key difference is that none of his flops were expensive (unless you count Martial as a complete flop).
 
The selectivity in some of these posts… I’m not sure the posters are even aware they’re showing huge bias.

How can Moyes be lambasted for signings, but ten Hag not? Whether we should have a set up in place that removes the interference of the manager or not, one of these guys has had almost 1/2 billion frittered away on mostly rubbish and the other a fraction of that amount. On signings alone ten Hag is rock bottom before the rest of the stuff is factored in.

There’s a loathing for Moyes that permeates posts regarding him whilst ten Hag is posted about in much fonder, forgiving terms. None of that should factor into assessment of the work done here.

ten Hag’s X-factor is he may still turn it around, but if the season stopped dead for him here, there’s no question he is bottom of the barrel if this season is assessed in isolation to this exact point in time.
 
Even if we go by their most expensive signings it tells its own story except for Moyes who wasn’t here long enough.

Jose - Pogba
Ole - Maguire
LVG - Di Maria
EtH - Antony

The first three brought immediate quality to our team and improved us but at one point all lost their way. Antony has been shite from his third game until now.
 
doughole said:
One thing about Moyes. He was overwhelmingly the fans favourite when he was appointed don't forget.

I didn't like how he was disrespected following his appointment he tried his best he just wasn't the right fit. But the intention behind Moyes was to appoint a long term manager, not join the merry go round that everyone else was on of three or four seasons then a change.

The pressure to remove Moyes was so much that no time was given to finding a successor to SAF and so it went on.
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I think we thought Fergie was right and could do no wrong, picking Moyes, rather than the majority thought he was the best manager out there. It wasn’t until a few years later that the news leaked he was Fergies 3rd/4th choice as others had turned it down.
I do still wonder if Mourinho had followed him whether we would have at least another title by now.
 
LawmanMan said:
We went for Fellaini as Woodward failed to get any other deals over the line despite flying around like a plonker in his little jet.
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We went for fellani (and baines) because Moyes wanted them. Yes Woodward is a cnut but that's a whole different topic.
 
If I just look at results and not their impact on the club:

Mou. Most trophies, best points total in league.
ETH (likely will drop down one place a the end of this season but 3rd plus a cup is better than Ole’s best season).
Ole. Back to back top 4’s with a second place finish being peak. No trophies.
LVG. Got us back into top 4. Won cup year after.
Moyes/Ragnick. Not much to say on either.

If I think of overall impact on club I’d say currently I think it’s this order.

LVG. Tried to enforce a lot of change. Clears out average players. Had a comparatively short stint and signings probably were the best value we’ve seen.

ETH. This could really swing at the end of the season but to have survived Ronaldo, Sancho, Greenwood, Antony situations whilst clearly going after the culture of the club can’t be understated. First season very good. This season could be a disaster but I think we will recover. Has a plan, sticks to it and is actually qualified. Signings very mixed.

Mou. Was wrong from the start in how he set teams up but had success and ended up with hindsight being right about a number of things. Mixed signings, awful off field for our reputation as a club and really the start - as I see it - of the club moving from being a big club that faltering to one to mock at every turn. A bad appointment.

Moyes. Poor but moved on swiftly so the damage was simply we’d hired someone not quite at the calibre we wanted and then moved on. How it should have been dealt with and a manager who wasn’t really qualified.

Ole. For me the most detrimental of hires for the long term. Coming off the club backing players over Mou. They appoint a club legend who is not qualified and has a terrible albeit small PL track record. All would have been fine and Ole might even be #1 or #2 for me if we’d done what a normal club would have done and waited to make a decision until the end of the season on him and then seen the fall off in form. We signed big egos and problem players and seemed intent on appeasing everyone - the damage from which has riddled ETH’s time here and I suspect will affect the next manager as well if ETH is sacked. There was very clearly no rocking of the boat from within, which Mou and LVG did, and so we festered as a massive spending counter attacking club nicely summed up by the ‘trophies are for egos’ quote.

Ragnick. NA.

All have been ‘bad’ overall but at least with LVG, Mou and ETH there is a plan and they stick to that plan. They are the three ‘qualified’ managers we’ve signed and it’s not surprise they are the three who have won things.
 
Overall management:
Jose
Ole
Ten Hag
LVG
Moyes

Transfer signings under them:
Jose, Ibra, Pogba, Dalot, Matic
Ole, Varane, Sancho, AWB, Bruno
LVG, Martial, Blind, Rojo, Di Maria
Ten Hag, Martinez, Onana, Casemiro, Amrabat, Eriksen, Hojlund
Moyes, piss off
 
Just rating permanent mangers so:
1) Jose (quite convincingly to be fair)
2) Ole
3) LVG
4) ETH
5) Moyes
 
Overall quality
1. Jose
2. Ole
3. LVG
4. Moyes

This is the most important metric and therefore the order I would rank them in.

Some significant albeit less important metrics:

Entertainment
1. Ole
2. Jose
3. Moyes
4. LVG

Transfers
1. LVG
2. Ole
3. Jose
(not enough to rank Moyes fairly)

Personality
1. LVG
2. Ole
3. Moyes
4. Jose
 
bringbackbebe said:
It didn't work for Sir.Alex in the first few years either. He finished 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th in his first 4 full seasons but we had far sighted executives who could see the work he was otherwise doing and stopped bothering about fan perception. ETH won't be sacked for this exact reason. Second season drop after an over performing first season is quite common.
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Sir Alex was clearly building for the future, got a lot of dead wood out and instilled culture of ruthless competitiveness.

I fail to see where Erik is building for the long-term. We have ton of high-paid players who down tools all the time and the style of football we play can only be described as "survival game with no style or chemistry".

There is HUGE difference between what Sir Alex was doing and what Erik is doing. Just because it took Sir Alex time doesn't mean you can sit and watch patiently somebody completely different in a completely different context

Serious questions should be asked of Erik in June. And I am sure questions will be asked because we are a mess and what he is doing is not the only or even the biggest mess but he seems a mess too
 
NewGlory said:
Sir Alex was clearly building for the future, got a lot of dead wood out and instilled culture of ruthless competitiveness.

I fail to see where Erik is building for the long-term. We have ton of high-paid players who down tools all the time and the style of football we play can only be described as "survival game with no style or chemistry".

There is HUGE difference between what Sir Alex was doing and what Erik is doing. Just because it took Sir Alex time doesn't mean you can sit and watch patiently somebody completely different in a completely different context

Serious questions should be asked of Erik in June. And I am sure questions will be asked because we are a mess and what he is doing is not the only or even the biggest mess but he seems a mess too
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A lot of what Sir.Alex did in hindsight is pretty clear, but it wasn't the case to the fans back in the late 80s. Posters were hung about wanting him sacked and two bottom half finishes didn't aid the cause here. Maybe someone who has lived through that era can explain what it was like.

Most of the dead-weights were inherited by Ten Hag and were not his fault. None of his signings of last year were dead-weights and it's too early to judge Onana, Hojland and Mount. Also, look at the number of academy players he's allowing to break through to the first team and also just go through the youth section of this forum and you'll see how competent our academy is now. There is a lot of structure brought into this club that's not reflected in the football yet but it will eventually show up.
 
wolvored said:
I think we thought Fergie was right and could do no wrong, picking Moyes, rather than the majority thought he was the best manager out there. It wasn’t until a few years later that the news leaked he was Fergies 3rd/4th choice as others had turned it down.
I do still wonder if Mourinho had followed him whether we would have at least another title by now.
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I think there is an element of Alex covering his backside here. He had been grooming Moyes for years and had even acted as a career adviser.

Put it this way, he may have gone through the motions with these approaches, but I think he had a long-term favorable view of Moyes and was very keen to see him in the role.
witchtrials said:
1. van Gaal
2. Ten Hag
3. Solskjaer
4. Mourinho
5. Moyes
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1 - Mourinho
2 - Ole
3 - Moyes
4 - LVG
5 - ETH

Louis and Erik are peas in a pod as their spells are by far the most damaging. I really do not understand what ETH is trying to accomplish here.
 
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