Rangnick on Fletcher: What his role is, I don't really know

[SparkedIntoLife]

These quotes seem to be from a Fans Forum. Anyone know if there’s a video or bigger transcript somewhere or was this not allowed to be filmed?

 

[roseguy64]

RR probably wants Fletcher's technical director job and not the consulting gig he's going to get. He's putting feelers out there in the press - who talks like this about another senior employee to the press? He knows what he's doing. Sounds like a swell guy to work with ... not!
The positive is that it makes me believe that United have told him that he is not going to be manager next year.

You realise that if he gets Fletcher's job then he would be junior to Murtough? A person who he's supposed to be mentoring? FFS.

 

[roseguy64]

So now we know what Darren Fletcher does.

We knew that before Rangnick's comment. Murtough said what Fletcher does. Someone posted the tweet in here where it was clarified and its basically what Fletcher himself said in the Fan Forum meeting.

This was always a non-story.

 

[roseguy64]

These quotes seem to be from a Fans Forum. Anyone know if there’s a video or bigger transcript somewhere or was this not allowed to be filmed?

This link has the meetings up to December 2021:
https://www.manutd.com/en/fans/fans-forum/meeting-minutes

 

[Greck]

Obviously not too thrilled by the structure that got him there but I actually like how Fletcher has effectively taken up the role of assistant manager. Having a liaison office did something good after all. If there's anyone to scrutinize it's Phelan's.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

This link has the meetings up to December 2021:
https://www.manutd.com/en/fans/fans-forum/meeting-minutes

Cheers for this

 

[Grande]

We knew that before Rangnick's comment. Murtough said what Fletcher does. Someone posted the tweet in here where it was clarified and its basically what Fletcher himself said in the Fan Forum meeting.

This was always a non-story.

Agreed. If, by ‘we’, you mean ‘some of us’.

 

[Gavinb33]

Can anyone say truthfully hand over heart that Murtough and Fletcher were there best candidates for their roles? This is where the problem lies. Some on here are convinced that hiring these 2 is proof things are changing, it’s more glazer yes men on board to not rock the boat and toe the company line.

Had you heard of Michael Edwards before he became a thing at Liverpool, the best people for the role are not the ones trumpeted all over the place they are the ones best suited to the role

 

[romufc]

Had you heard of Michael Edwards before he became a thing at Liverpool, the best people for the role are not the ones trumpeted all over the place they are the ones best suited to the role

Thank You.

Also to add to that, has anyone heard of Julian Ward? he is the Edward's replacement. Guess where he worked ? Yep Liverpool as assistant.

We are clearly making changes, can we not wait and see how it develops before using criticise first method?

 

[Adnan]

Thank You.

Also to add to that, has anyone heard of Julian Ward? he is the Edward's replacement. Guess where he worked ? Yep Liverpool as assistant.

We are clearly making changes, can we not wait and see how it develops before using criticise first method?

Just to add to your post, Ward was the 'loans and pathways' manager before he was promoted to assistant football director at Liverpool.

 

[romufc]

Just to add to your post, Ward was the 'loans and pathways' manager before he was promoted to assistant football director at Liverpool.

Also, Chelsea have Cech and the like working in their set up. Their fans quite enjoy having them.

Its only United fans who think we need someone external to do the job, without giving the change to the new setup.

I find it weird the amount of criticism our fans put on Fletcher's role.

 

[Revaulx]

Also, Chelsea have Cech and the like working in their set up. Their fans quite enjoy having them.

Its only United fans who think we need someone external to do the job, without giving the change to the new setup.

I find it weird the amount of criticism our fans put on Fletcher's role.

Indeed. The fact that the very much external Ralf has spoken in public about how much he values Fletcher should have been enough to silence the criticism, regardless of one’s opinion on the process that got Fletcher a foot in the door in the first place.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Indeed. The fact that the very much external Ralf has spoken in public about how much he values Fletcher should have been enough to silence the criticism, regardless of one’s opinion on the process that got Fletcher a foot in the door in the first place.

Enough of the straw man arguments. Its about hiring people with the right qualifications. Chelsea had a top DoF, if I am right he left recently. Butt did a good job but then seemed to get pushed out. Fletcher seems a 'good' guy but with zero qualifications and a joke when noone knows his role. Technical director or something, so Ralf likes him around so its all dandy, even if Ralf doesnt even know what his job is. We have ex players who have proved themselves, like VDS, but noone at United has the balls to give him the top job. And did Liverpool care about old boys when they appointed Klopp?

Its about havng a clear strutcutre, with football decisions take by experienced football people and not to sell shirts or popcorn. We dont have that. This is a huge business worth billions, not some mates club.

 

[romufc]

Indeed. The fact that the very much external Ralf has spoken in public about how much he values Fletcher should have been enough to silence the criticism, regardless of one’s opinion on the process that got Fletcher a foot in the door in the first place.

Yes but also do you find it strange that when Ralf said "he doesn't know what he does at the club" alot of people criticise because it suits the narrative, yet when in the same sentence said he appreciates having him, that is ignored by the fans?

I have seen numerous United fans saying what is Fletcher doing on the bench, Fletcher is picking the team. Its all childish behaviour really.

Ralf and Fletcher are going to be working together in the coming months, why not work together now? I actually see it as a positive because:

1. Ralf and Fletcher can assess the squad together and bounce ideas
2. Identify weaknesses in the type of player required.
3. Identify the style of football they want to play

Didn't we all want footballing people at board level? So surely having a technical director during the interim period alongside Ralf is a bonus?

 

[romufc]

Enough of the straw man arguments. Its about hiring people with the right qualifications. Chelsea had a top DoF, if I am right he left recently. Butt did a good job but then seemed to get pushed out. Fletcher seems a 'good' guy but with zero qualifications and a joke when noone knows his role. Technical director or something, so Ralf likes him around so its all dandy, even if Ralf doesnt even know what his job is. We have ex players who have proved themselves, like VDS, but noone at United has the balls to give him the top job. And did Liverpool care about old boys when they appointed Klopp?

Its about havng a clear strutcutre, with football decisions take by experienced football people and not to sell shirts or popcorn. We dont have that. This is a huge business worth billions, not some mates club.

I love this post, these are the kind of posters who are just critcise criticise criticise without any research.

So you know who Liverpool's Managing Director is? Clearly you do because you have mentioned Liverpool, experience and old boys

Liverpool's MD is Andy Hughes - He was COO at Guoman Hotel Management UK until 2013, then joined Liverpool as CFO until 2016, in 2016 he got made MD. From 0 football experience and Klopp took over in 2015 and a Liverpool old boy got MD in 2016.

Liverpools CEO Billy Hogan was chief commercial officer from 2012 and in 2020 was made CEO - please tell me about his expertise and previous experiences

Liverpools ex DoF - Michael Edwards - joined Liverpool in 2011 as chief analyst and in 2016 a Liverpool old boy got DoF a few months affter Klopp took over.

Liverpools current DoF - Assistant DoF being promoted with no experience of being a DoF

Can you tell me where these guys got their qualifications? Cause it is clear to me they worked their way up at Liverpool, NONE of them got the big job unless they worked their way up.

 

[Gordon Godot]

I love this post, these are the kind of posters who are just critcise criticise criticise without any research.

So you know who Liverpool's Managing Director is? Clearly you do because you have mentioned Liverpool, experience and old boys

Liverpool's MD is Andy Hughes - He was COO at Guoman Hotel Management UK until 2013, then joined Liverpool as CFO until 2016, in 2016 he got made MD. From 0 football experience and Klopp took over in 2015 and a Liverpool old boy got MD in 2016.

Liverpools CEO Billy Hogan was chief commercial officer from 2012 and in 2020 was made CEO - please tell me about his expertise and previous experiences

Liverpools ex DoF - Michael Edwards - joined Liverpool in 2011 as chief analyst and in 2016 a Liverpool old boy got DoF a few months affter Klopp took over.

Liverpools current DoF - Assistant DoF being promoted with no experience of being a DoF

Can you tell me where these guys got their qualifications? Cause it is clear to me they worked their way up at Liverpool, NONE of them got the big job unless they worked their way up.

Stop being a pr*ck. I dont just criticise without knowing anything I suspect I know far more about management than you. Why dont you answer me one question, how has the United approach of appointing bankers to be CEO and then a random selection of individuals with varying to zero levels of actual experience actually done for us? What do we have for the highest wage bill in the league? Anything? How balanced is our squad? How has the Ole 'rebuild' left us?

You appoint bankers and amuteurs, this is what you get. Moron

 

[Revaulx]

Yes but also do you find it strange that when Ralf said "he doesn't know what he does at the club" alot of people criticise because it suits the narrative, yet when in the same sentence said he appreciates having him, that is ignored by the fans?

I have seen numerous United fans saying what is Fletcher doing on the bench, Fletcher is picking the team. Its all childish behaviour really.

Ralf and Fletcher are going to be working together in the coming months, why not work together now? I actually see it as a positive because:

1. Ralf and Fletcher can assess the squad together and bounce ideas
2. Identify weaknesses in the type of player required.
3. Identify the style of football they want to play

Didn't we all want footballing people at board level? So surely having a technical director during the interim period alongside Ralf is a bonus?

Oh absolutely. Though I can see why people are sceptical about the whole process through which Fletcher was given a job in the first place. There does seem to have been an air of “he’s a good lad; let’s put him on the payroll now, give him a suitably vague title and work out what job to give him later”. The fact that it’s worked out well and he’s been able to carve out a useful niche appears to have been more down to luck than planning.

Whatever, it’s turned out ok in the end; at least for the time being. Let’s be glad of that and not use it as another pretext for moaning.

 

[Revaulx]

Enough of the straw man arguments. Its about hiring people with the right qualifications. Chelsea had a top DoF, if I am right he left recently. Butt did a good job but then seemed to get pushed out. Fletcher seems a 'good' guy but with zero qualifications and a joke when noone knows his role. Technical director or something, so Ralf likes him around so its all dandy, even if Ralf doesnt even know what his job is. We have ex players who have proved themselves, like VDS, but noone at United has the balls to give him the top job. And did Liverpool care about old boys when they appointed Klopp?

Its about havng a clear strutcutre, with football decisions take by experienced football people and not to sell shirts or popcorn. We dont have that. This is a huge business worth billions, not some mates club.

Not sure where you’re getting a straw man from.

It’s fair enough to criticise the club for the way Fletcher was appointed; I thought it was very odd at the time, and the fact that his role seems to have changed several times since he started supports the notion that the club hadn’t a clue what his role was going to be. Which I agree is idiotic.

Continuing to moan about Fletcher when he’s managed to end up in a role where he’s actually being useful also seems idiotic though. Even if he only ended up in that role by accident.

 

[Giggsy13]

Had you heard of Michael Edwards before he became a thing at Liverpool, the best people for the role are not the ones trumpeted all over the place they are the ones best suited to the role

They also have owners who are committed to winning trophies.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Stop being a pr*ck. I dont just criticise without knowing anything I suspect I know far more about management than you. Why dont you answer me one question, how has the United approach of appointing bankers to be CEO and then a random selection of individuals with varying to zero levels of actual experience actually done for us? What do we have for the highest wage bill in the league? Anything? How balanced is our squad? How has the Ole 'rebuild' left us?

You appoint bankers and amuteurs, this is what you get. Moron

You don’t even know the simple difference between bankers and accountants so would be surprised you know far more about anything.

Since appointing accountants, not bankers, we’ve won 20 trophies. Dylan Moran.

 

[romufc]

Stop being a pr*ck. I dont just criticise without knowing anything I suspect I know far more about management than you. Why dont you answer me one question, how has the United approach of appointing bankers to be CEO and then a random selection of individuals with varying to zero levels of actual experience actually done for us? What do we have for the highest wage bill in the league? Anything? How balanced is our squad? How has the Ole 'rebuild' left us?

You appoint bankers and amuteurs, this is what you get. Moron

Your response is the reason I know you don't know much, once someone starts throwing personal insults, you know they are rattled and have no clue whats going on.

Also, I responded to your point about Liverpool, you used them as an example and all of their board is Liverpool people, been promoted, from what footballing background? You don't know. Just saying things hoping it fits your narrative.

So I guess then you were not a Manutd fan when we were winning trophies? We appointed Gill, do you know what his background was? Finance.

Again, It is so clear you have 0 clue, 0 idea of what actually goes on.

I think everyone agrees the way money has been spent is not right, the squad is not balanced.

Stop pretending like you know how football clubs are run, go have a look at most football clubs, CEO's are not footballing people. City's CEO is a government minister.

So instead of throwing personal insults, do your research properly.

 

[romufc]

Oh absolutely. Though I can see why people are sceptical about the whole process through which Fletcher was given a job in the first place. There does seem to have been an air of “he’s a good lad; let’s put him on the payroll now, give him a suitably vague title and work out what job to give him later”. The fact that it’s worked out well and he’s been able to carve out a useful niche appears to have been more down to luck than planning.

Whatever, it’s turned out ok in the end; at least for the time being. Let’s be glad of that and not use it as another pretext for moaning.

I think it may look like that but when it was first reported that Manutd are looking for a DoF, Darren Fletchers name was mentioned.

I know he's a ex player and all that but he was actually highly rated at United for his technical side, which is why out of all the ex players, its Fletcher who is getting this job.

 

[Gordon Godot]

I think it may look like that but when it was first reported that Manutd are looking for a DoF, Darren Fletchers name was mentioned.

I know he's a ex player and all that but he was actually highly rated at United for his technical side, which is why out of all the ex players, its Fletcher who is getting this job.

I am sorry but this is all pathetic and just another example of why United are in such a mess. We get all the PR rubbish about thorough processes and scouting, then make stupid appointments. Its not clear that Fletcher even has coaching badges, he certainly had no formal coaching role at United or elsewhere before his appointment.

I was criticised for a post yesterday with someone claiming Liverpool appoint from within. But they appoint people with strong experience, both externally before they join Liverpool and then a proven track record within the club.

For example Michael Edwards is the Liverpool DOF who is now leaving. Before joining in 2011 as head as performance analytics, he had had similar roles at Spurs. After his pro career ended he got a degree and then started analytics at Portsmouth, where he became head of analytics. Ater 6 years he was asked to build the analytics team at Spurs. After two years he was head hunted to Liverpool by the then DOF. AFter a number of years as head of analytics, he became DOF.

Lets contrast that experience with Fletcher. Not to say he is not a 'good lad' but he has ZERO qualification for this role, with several officials from Murtough to Ralf struggling to really explain what he does. If people are happy with amuteur hour then fine, but dont be surprised that we continue to fail and be a joke. Professionalism and real experience trumps good lad and United DNA every day of the week.

 

[romufc]

I am sorry but this is all pathetic and just another example of why United are in such a mess. We get all the PR rubbish about thorough processes and scouting, then make stupid appointments. Its not clear that Fletcher even has coaching badges, he certainly had no formal coaching role at United or elsewhere before his appointment.

I was criticised for a post yesterday with someone claiming Liverpool appoint from within. But they appoint people with strong experience, both externally before they join Liverpool and then a proven track record within the club.

For example Michael Edwards is the Liverpool DOF who is now leaving. Before joining in 2011 as head as performance analytics, he had had similar roles at Spurs. After his pro career ended he got a degree and then started analytics at Portsmouth, where he became head of analytics. Ater 6 years he was asked to build the analytics team at Spurs. After two years he was head hunted to Liverpool by the then DOF. AFter a number of years as head of analytics, he became DOF.

Lets contrast that experience with Fletcher. Not to say he is not a 'good lad' but he has ZERO qualification for this role, with several officials from Murtough to Ralf struggling to really explain what he does. If people are happy with amuteur hour then fine, but dont be surprised that we continue to fail and be a joke. Professionalism and real experience trumps good lad and United DNA every day of the week.

Its all well and good but lets all ignore the fact that Rangnick, is going to be involved too.

I love how people ignore this just because it suits their narrative. Your response will be, his role isn't defined. Who cares, we are trying to change with Rangnick there to help us, unless you feel he lacks the experience and knowledge.

 

[Hansi Fick]

I am sorry but this is all pathetic and just another example of why United are in such a mess. We get all the PR rubbish about thorough processes and scouting, then make stupid appointments. Its not clear that Fletcher even has coaching badges, he certainly had no formal coaching role at United or elsewhere before his appointment.

I was criticised for a post yesterday with someone claiming Liverpool appoint from within. But they appoint people with strong experience, both externally before they join Liverpool and then a proven track record within the club.

For example Michael Edwards is the Liverpool DOF who is now leaving. Before joining in 2011 as head as performance analytics, he had had similar roles at Spurs. After his pro career ended he got a degree and then started analytics at Portsmouth, where he became head of analytics. Ater 6 years he was asked to build the analytics team at Spurs. After two years he was head hunted to Liverpool by the then DOF. AFter a number of years as head of analytics, he became DOF.

Lets contrast that experience with Fletcher. Not to say he is not a 'good lad' but he has ZERO qualification for this role, with several officials from Murtough to Ralf struggling to really explain what he does. If people are happy with amuteur hour then fine, but dont be surprised that we continue to fail and be a joke. Professionalism and real experience trumps good lad and United DNA every day of the week.

But Edwards was not in the comparable job to Fletcher. The comparable job is Murtough, who is your DoF, and I must say the way you present Edwards' CV it sounds very, very similar to Murthough's, with Murtough being even more involved not just in analytics but also organizational reform.

So if Edwards was qualified, so sure is Murthough. And if it took a while, and a fortunate managerial appointment, for Edwards' work to be recognized, so it will take with Murthough. Without Klopp, noone here would be singing Edward's praises, which wouldn't mean he'd have done a bad job.

Not sure how it is at other PL clubs, but there's loads of Bundesliga clubs where the Fletcher role is enacted by a former player right after he finishes his career, as it's a connection point between the dressing room and the board and staff. I.e. Kehl at Dortmund. There's nothing 'pathetic' about it, the way I see it.

 

[Gordon Godot]

But Edwards was not in the comparable job to Fletcher. The comparable job is Murtough, who is your DoF, and I must say the way you present Edwards' CV it sounds very, very similar to Murthough's, with Murtough being even more involved not just in analytics but also organizational reform.

Not sure how it is at other PL clubs, but there's loads of Bundesliga clubs where the Fletcher role is enacted by a former player right after he finishes his career, as it's a connection point between the dressing room and the board and staff. I.e. Kehl at Dortmund. There's nothing 'pathetic' about it, the way I see it.

Mate, you miss the point entirely. I am not specifically having a go at Fletch, though a few things. We are one of the biggest clubs and sports businesses in the world. So what some Bundesliga clubs do is not the starting point, I would also suggest that even there they start off lower down before become say Technical director.

Secondly, I hope Ralf has some influence, but we have no idea. HE was not backed in Jan window, several reports from Germany say he wasnt that happy. And after end of season he has a 'consultancy' role. As anyone in business can tell you, that is as vague as it gets and can be terminated in an instant. Going forward we need to work with what is there, but lets stop trying to pretend all is fine and dandy or becuase someone was a good player they 'must' be good. Its the same rose tinted rubbish that gave us Ole and his fan club.

Answer is simple, if we want to be the best then we hire the best. We then run the club for football reasons not shirt or popcorn sales. Simple

 

[devilish]

I am sorry but this is all pathetic and just another example of why United are in such a mess. We get all the PR rubbish about thorough processes and scouting, then make stupid appointments. Its not clear that Fletcher even has coaching badges, he certainly had no formal coaching role at United or elsewhere before his appointment.

I was criticised for a post yesterday with someone claiming Liverpool appoint from within. But they appoint people with strong experience, both externally before they join Liverpool and then a proven track record within the club.

For example Michael Edwards is the Liverpool DOF who is now leaving. Before joining in 2011 as head as performance analytics, he had had similar roles at Spurs. After his pro career ended he got a degree and then started analytics at Portsmouth, where he became head of analytics. Ater 6 years he was asked to build the analytics team at Spurs. After two years he was head hunted to Liverpool by the then DOF. AFter a number of years as head of analytics, he became DOF.

Lets contrast that experience with Fletcher. Not to say he is not a 'good lad' but he has ZERO qualification for this role, with several officials from Murtough to Ralf struggling to really explain what he does. If people are happy with amuteur hour then fine, but dont be surprised that we continue to fail and be a joke. Professionalism and real experience trumps good lad and United DNA every day of the week.

Fletcher has United DNA and if he was available he would have squashed Oep's Barca on his own

 

[Hansi Fick]

Mate, you miss the point entirely. I am not specifically having a go at Fletch, though a few things. We are one of the biggest clubs and sports businesses in the world. So what some Bundesliga clubs do is not the starting point, I would also suggest that even there they start off lower down before become say Technical director.

Secondly, I hope Ralf has some influence, but we have no idea. HE was not backed in Jan window, several reports from Germany say he wasnt that happy. And after end of season he has a 'consultancy' role. As anyone in business can tell you, that is as vague as it gets and can be terminated in an instant. Going forward we need to work with what is there, but lets stop trying to pretend all is fine and dandy or becuase someone was a good player they 'must' be good. Its the same rose tinted rubbish that gave us Ole and his fan club.

Answer is simple, if we want to be the best then we hire the best. We then run the club for football reasons not shirt or popcorn sales. Simple

Petr Cech does the same at Chelsea, "technical and performance advisor". Nedved was hired by Juve right after his playing career, to an even higher position if I understand right. Salihamidzic was even appointed as Bayern's DoF without any previous experience in the role at all.
It's not that weird to have ex-players who are smart and capable getting a job at clubs right away. If you assume Fletcher is not smart and capable, it's on you, while you have no real indication how well or badly really he does his job.

As for the bolded, that comes in summer. You need to hire the best possible future manager then, and that is not Rangnick (and it will not be Rangnick).
It is however entirely possible (even if not really my personal opinion..) that getting Rangnick in as interim midseason, and Murthough getting some further advisory input from then on, was among the best possible decisions at the time of Ole's sacking.

 

[devilish]

Petr Cech does the same at Chelsea, "technical and performance advisor". Nedved was hired by Juve right after his playing career, to an even higher position if I understand right. Salihamidzic was even appointed as Bayern's DoF without any previous experience in the role at all.
It's not that weird to have ex-players who are smart and capable getting a job at clubs right away. If you assume Fletcher is not smart and capable, it's on you, while you have no real indication how well or badly really he does his job.

As for the bolded, that comes in summer. You need to hire the best possible future manager then, and that is not Rangnick (and it will not be Rangnick).
It is however entirely possible (even if not really my personal opinion..) that getting Rangnick in as interim midseason, and Murthough getting some further advisory input from then on, was among the best possible decisions at the time of Ole's sacking.

Some clubs have a culture to develop some great football people past their football career. Juventus for example developed the likes of Trapattoni, Capello (with AC Milan), Conte and Zidane. United had never had such culture. Its no surprise that throughout its history we had 2 successful managers one of which happened to be a former Liverpool captain and the other was from Glasgow. I can't think of one former Manchester United player who had ever won the league title as a manager and if you follow the interviews of the likes of Ole, the Neville brothers and Rio Ferdinand you figure out why. We can produce some top talented players but we need people from the outside to do the thinking.

 

[Withnail]

Can anyone say truthfully hand over heart that Murtough and Fletcher were there best candidates for their roles? This is where the problem lies. Some on here are convinced that hiring these 2 is proof things are changing, it’s more glazer yes men on board to not rock the boat and toe the company line.

Can you say truthfully, hand on heart, that Murtough and Fletcher are glazer yes men?

 

[Revaulx]

I think it may look like that but when it was first reported that Manutd are looking for a DoF, Darren Fletchers name was mentioned.

I know he's a ex player and all that but he was actually highly rated at United for his technical side, which is why out of all the ex players, its Fletcher who is getting this job.

Yes; LvG praised him for his intelligence and leadership when he arrived. Plus, although no doubt many on here would ridicule it, his experience at "lesser" clubs following his United playing career would have done him no harm at all.

I still don't think it's great that United would have considered him for senior positions at which he'd had no experience whatsover other than being a bright guy who "knows the club". Though bringing him on board ahead of other ex-players in the expectation that a role could be found for him (which has indeed happened) seems perfectly acceptable.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

I am sorry but this is all pathetic and just another example of why United are in such a mess. We get all the PR rubbish about thorough processes and scouting, then make stupid appointments. Its not clear that Fletcher even has coaching badges, he certainly had no formal coaching role at United or elsewhere before his appointment.

I was criticised for a post yesterday with someone claiming Liverpool appoint from within. But they appoint people with strong experience, both externally before they join Liverpool and then a proven track record within the club.

For example Michael Edwards is the Liverpool DOF who is now leaving. Before joining in 2011 as head as performance analytics, he had had similar roles at Spurs. After his pro career ended he got a degree and then started analytics at Portsmouth, where he became head of analytics. Ater 6 years he was asked to build the analytics team at Spurs. After two years he was head hunted to Liverpool by the then DOF. AFter a number of years as head of analytics, he became DOF.

Lets contrast that experience with Fletcher. Not to say he is not a 'good lad' but he has ZERO qualification for this role, with several officials from Murtough to Ralf struggling to really explain what he does. If people are happy with amuteur hour then fine, but dont be surprised that we continue to fail and be a joke. Professionalism and real experience trumps good lad and United DNA every day of the week.

Fletcher coached our reserves during his sickness absence in his playing days (several months, if not a year). He coached at Stoke. He’s a very intelligent guy.

There’s a lot of things we can legitimately call out about our football club but some people just gravitate towards negativity dogmatically. Kieran McKenna a big example of that. He got slaughtered by lots of people here despite coming in with a decent pedigree. Now he’s left, he’s earning plaudits for how he’s turned around Ipswich.

Sometimes people need to accept that we don’t know everything of the inner workings of this club and that not everything is absolutely terrible.

 

[romufc]

Yes; LvG praised him for his intelligence and leadership when he arrived. Plus, although no doubt many on here would ridicule it, his experience at "lesser" clubs following his United playing career would have done him no harm at all.

I still don't think it's great that United would have considered him for senior positions at which he'd had no experience whatsover other than being a bright guy who "knows the club". Though bringing him on board ahead of other ex-players in the expectation that a role could be found for him (which has indeed happened) seems perfectly acceptable.

Exactly, people tend to forget that too.

Yes, he has limited experience. However; he knows what it takes to be successful, he knows the requirements and hopefully he can bring the right changes.

Also, with Ralf supporting him, I don't think the lack of experience is that bad, if we didn't have someone like Ralf consulting it would be different.

 

[devilish]

Can you say truthfully, hand on heart, that Murtough and Fletcher are glazer yes men?

Both got a number of promotions despite coming into the setup of one of the most disastrous times in United's recent history (ie the Woodward's time). Why would that be the case?

 

[Giggsy13]

Can you say truthfully, hand on heart, that Murtough and Fletcher are glazer yes men?

Cronyism has defined our club since 2013 re: promote people on knowledge of culture not merit. What the club needs and needed is a complete wash of the previous regime, which Murtough and Fletcher were a part of. The academy revamp has been impressive (the only thing we’ve done well post Fergue), but what part of that was actually Nicky Butt’s contribution and not Murtough and/or Fletcher.

 

[Withnail]

Both got a number of promotions despite coming into the setup of one of the most disastrous times in United's recent history (ie the Woodward's time). Why would that be the case?

Do you have any actual facts on the matter, or just the usual insinuations based on feck all?

It's very easy to call people puppets and yes men.

 

[Withnail]

Cronyism has defined our club since 2013 re: promote people on knowledge of culture not merit. What the club needs and needed is a complete wash of the previous regime, which Murtough and Fletcher were a part of. The academy revamp has been impressive (the only thing we’ve done well post Fergue), but what part of that was actually Nicky Butt’s contribution and not Murtough and/or Fletcher.

So that's a no then?

 

[Giggsy13]

So that's a no then?

It’s not my fault some of you are so brittle that you can’t handle an alternative viewpoint. Keep the blindfold on and be happy, Murtough just like Edwards, we’ll be the next Liverpool yay!

 

[Withnail]

It’s not my fault some of you are so brittle that you can’t handle an alternative viewpoint. Keep the blindfold on and be happy, Murtough just like Edwards, we’ll be the next Liverpool yay!

It's not my fault that you can't back up your claim. Explain to me why they are bad appointments with something more substantial than phrases like 'yes men' and 'puppets' and I'll listen.

Demanding a clean break for clean break's sake is ridiculous. When the boss isn't good enough you don't gut the whole company. Where does this idea come from? Do you think this is a good approach in any other part of your life?

 

[Giggsy13]

It's not my fault that you can't back up your claim. Explain to me why they are bad appointments with something more substantial than phrases like 'yes men' and 'puppets' and I'll listen.

Demanding a clean break for clean break's sake is ridiculous. When the boss isn't good enough you don't gut the whole company. Where does this idea come from? Do you think this is a good approach in any other part of your life?

I already presented a viewpoint that you conveniently ignored re: Nicky Butt had more of an impact in revamping the academy than Murtough yet he’s gone and wasn’t considered for even Fletcher’s role.

Murtough has been here since 2013, almost a decade in which we’ve had a scatter gun transfer approach, over a billion spent and a largely failed transfer strategy. Is Murtough absolved of that now?

Some are lauding that he brought in Rangnick as an interim and a future consultant with the club. Do any of you not see the irony in that? What top DOF in the world brings in a consultant to help advise them on how to do their fecking job!?