Randal Kolo Muani

devilish said:
You're entitled to your opinion of course. I think that its not the case. He doesn't score enough goals to be the main striker and he lacks the pace to play as no 10
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Is pace a key component in Amorims no 10s/inside forwards? Doesnt he usually have one who is more pacey and another who is more a playermaker type like Zirkzee?

Not even saying he will do well
 
If were are shipping Antony out and moving Rashford to CF then this would be a decent signing to cover the attacking positions till the summer
 
Fortunately the source is fairly bad. Otherwise he cemented himself as the baguette eating Welbeck.
 
Cassidy said:
Is pace a key component in Amorims no 10s/inside forwards? Doesnt he usually have one who is more pacey and another who is more a playermaker type like Zirkzee?

Not even saying he will do well
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I am far from an expert on Amorim but from my research I got the idea that he goes for a more conventional no 10 and an inside forward. I can't see Zirkzee going for the inside forward role as he lacks the pace while as no 10 there's already Bruno and Mount.

My point is this. We paid relatively little for Zirkzee whose still respected alot in Italy. I can see Serie A club paying us as much as we bought him which would then free funds for the players Amorim would want.
 
devilish said:
I am far from an expert on Amorim but from my research I got the idea that he goes for a more conventional no 10 and an inside forward. I can't see Zirkzee going for the inside forward role as he lacks the pace while as no 10 there's already Bruno and Mount.

My point is this. We paid relatively little for Zirkzee whose still respected alot in Italy. I can see Serie A club paying us as much as we bought him which would then free funds for the players Amorim would want.
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I think the point is Zirkzee is more of a conventional 10 than you seem to think, and operated as such in Seria A hence the coin term of 9.5 or false 9
Not opposed to selling him though and Mount by the way
 
golden_blunder said:
Well you basically said United shouldn’t buy a player if that club is on a downward spiral.
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I meant we should aim for better than the likes of Isak.

Mind, you are probably right and Isak is about our level now. He and Muani. Which is quite ominous.
 
devilish said:
I am far from an expert on Amorim but from my research I got the idea that he goes for a more conventional no 10 and an inside forward. I can't see Zirkzee going for the inside forward role as he lacks the pace while as no 10 there's already Bruno and Mount.

My point is this. We paid relatively little for Zirkzee whose still respected alot in Italy. I can see Serie A club paying us as much as we bought him which would then free funds for the players Amorim would want.
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From what I’ve heard about Amorim heMs supposed to be quite adaptable and not independant on archetypes in his side if that makes sense?

I’m sure he’d be able to adapt to whatever players he has available. That could mean Højlund leading the line with two tens like Bruno and Amad supplying. Whilst when Zirzee plays, assuming he doesn’t take the role of a ten, he could be paired with wide attackers such as Garnacho or Rashford providing the threat in behind that Højlund would otherwise provide.
 
I wouldn’t be against swapping him for Rashford but that’s probably the only way that I would take him.
 
Crostien said:
A damning indictment of the EPL's strikers, that.
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Id agree that there isn’t many to choose from anymore, these modern systems seem to be making more Jack of all trades players and less individual players, if you know what I mean.

However i disagree with you on isak, I think he’s a very good forward who would probably do better under a better team
 
JohnnyLaw said:
From what I’ve heard about Amorim heMs supposed to be quite adaptable and not independant on archetypes in his side if that makes sense?

I’m sure he’d be able to adapt to whatever players he has available. That could mean Højlund leading the line with two tens like Bruno and Amad supplying. Whilst when Zirzee plays, assuming he doesn’t take the role of a ten, he could be paired with wide attackers such as Garnacho or Rashford providing the threat in behind that Højlund would otherwise provide.
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It's all speculation of course as no one knows what amorim is planning. All I can say is that I can't see Zirkzee leading the line or play as no 10 in amorim system but as said I'm no expert on the matter

All I can say is, if we aren't planning to use him then we should sell him now as his stock is still high
 
Hammondo said:
I'm not sure how impressive that is.
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Better than 1 in 2 in the Premier League for a side that isn't great is very good.

It's a nearly 0.6 ratio. We would love a striker who can reliably do that.

Haaland, Ronaldo and the like have created a false economy.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Better than 1 in 2 in the Premier League for a side that isn't great is very good.

It's a nearly 0.6 ratio. We would love a striker who can reliably do that.

Haaland, Ronaldo and the like have created a false economy.
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I'm not sure. He moved to the pl at a great age, has played 61 games, it's not the same as say Palmer who's younger and started playing pl games 20/21 (just to give an example).

Playing for a good team, he's done well not amazing.
 
Hammondo said:
I'm not sure. He moved to the pl at a great age, has played 61 games, it's not the same as say Palmer who's younger and started playing pl games 20/21 (just to give an example).

Playing for a good team, he's done well not amazing.
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What Palmer has done productivity wise is absolutely exceptional, in the running for the best player in the league.

What a weird player to cherry pick as a point of comparison.

Isak has been very good in the Premier League.
 
devilish said:
You're entitled to your opinion of course. I think that its not the case. He doesn't score enough goals to be the main striker and he lacks the pace to play as no 10
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1. Number 10s have never required exceptional pace. Just exceptional link up play and creatvity. Besides Lets not pretend Zirkzee is slower than Berbatov. Frankly he is even quicker than the current version of Harry Kane.

2. Amorim likes his cf to be a presser and good at link up play. Zirkee is good at both. All he lacks is out right pace like a Rasmus.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
1. Number 10s have never required exceptional pace. Just exceptional link up play and creatvity. Besides Lets not pretend Zirkzee is slower than Berbatov. Frankly he is even quicker than the current version of Harry Kane.

2. Amorim likes his cf to be a presser and good at link up play. Zirkee is good at both. All he lacks is out right pace like a Rasmus.
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Good points.
I think he looks like a good player and while I do not think he will be a prolific striker I think there is a good chance he could do 20 goals in a season and add assists and just be a good team player.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
1. Number 10s have never required exceptional pace. Just exceptional link up play and creatvity. Besides Lets not pretend Zirkzee is slower than Berbatov. Frankly he is even quicker than the current version of Harry Kane.

2. Amorim likes his cf to be a presser and good at link up play. Zirkee is good at both. All he lacks is out right pace like a Rasmus.
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Berbatov played as a shadow striker (mezza punta) and quite frankly he wasn't a success either. Amorim's system require his no 10 to move up and down the pitch, chasing players and be available as much as possible. That requires pace mate

@Sly can add some solid info to this discussion
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Haaland, Ronaldo and the like have created a false economy.
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The real 'false economy' has been created by state or franchise owned club, Abramovich and the like.

A good albeit unspectacular forward costs about 80 million these days. Muani and Isak won't particularly take us to any new height but, like Hojlund, would cost an absolute packet.

We need to react to these terms and start prioritising creating our own, because the market is getting smaller and tighter.
 
devilish said:
Berbatov played as a shadow striker (mezza punta) and quite frankly he wasn't a success either. Amorim's system require his no 10 to move up and down the pitch, chasing players and be available as much as possible. That requires pace mate
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Zirkzee at Bologna was constantly used to shuttle back and forth off the ball and to lead counter attacks. He was always the outlet. Thanks to his vision and link up ability. Its not remotely the same role a Berbatov had at United. Where we instead tried to utilize Berba as the lead cf. I also insist he does not lack pace to the extent you claim. He isn't Ericksen, Maguire nor Weghorst slow. He is about the same pace as Lisandro Martinez.
 
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Bondi77 said:
Good points.
I think he looks like a good player and while I do not think he will be a prolific striker I think there is a good chance he could do 20 goals in a season and add assists and just be a good team player.
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Exactly. He is a rotation option. A potentially very good one.

For me rather than looking to replace our strikers we should be looking to fix their supply lines. Which have been freaking garbage to out it mildly.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Exactly. He is a rotation option. A potentially very good one.

For me rather than looking to replace our strikers we should be looking to fix their supply lines. Which have been freaking garbage to out it mildly.
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He should have had a brace against Liverpool....it was bad finishing on his part in that one.
 
Bondi77 said:
He should have had a brace against Liverpool....it was bad finishing on his part in that one.
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I agree. His finishing has always been a weakness of his. A reason why he has never been particularly prolific. Yet it is an improvable one. IMHO he just never strikes the ball with the perquisite needed power consistently enough. Often trying to finesse the ball home. He also has to improve where he chooses to send the ball. I believe with the right coaching he can improve on that like a Watkins did at Vlla did under Emery. Or even how Arteta improved Sterling's from laugh out loud awful to decent at City.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I agree. His finishing has always been a weakness of his. A reason why he has never been particularly prolific. Yet it is an improvable one. IMHO he just never strikes the ball with the perquisite needed power consistently enough. Often trying to finesse the ball home. He also has to improve where he chooses to send the ball. I believe with the right coaching he can improve on that like a Watkins did at Vlla did under Emery. Or even how Arteta improved Sterling's from laugh out loud awful to decent at City.
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Zirkzee has to get up to pace with the speed of the Premier League so I am really not going to judge him until Feb/March.
 
devilish said:
Berbatov played as a shadow striker (mezza punta) and quite frankly he wasn't a success either. Amorim's system require his no 10 to move up and down the pitch, chasing players and be available as much as possible. That requires pace mate

@Sly can add some solid info to this discussion
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I don't see Zirkzee as a no 10. I see Zirkzee playing in the Paulinho role (former Sporting player under Amorim).

As I've written previously.

I think Zirkzee can play the role Paulinho had at Sporting when we played two up with him next to Gyokeres specifically in games against bottom tables clubs with ultra defensive setups. Paulinho played like a false winger, forward, playing from the inside which enabled us to fill the spaces that a very mobile forward like Gyokeres opens up. Opposing CB would have to deal with two mobile references which made their work way harder. Zirkzee like Paulinho would have more chances to finish due to Hojlund mobility and work rate.

With Amorim tactical approach, I think both Hojlund and Zirkzee can be compatible in certain circunstances. They could play off each other, in opposite movements. When one looks for support, the other could play in depth. I think United could have an interesting dual threat.
 
Sly said:
I don't see Zirkzee as a no 10. I see Zirkzee playing in the Paulinho role (former Sporting player under Amorim).

As I've written previously.

I think Zirkzee can play the role Paulinho had at Sporting when we played two up with him next to Gyokeres specifically in games against bottom tables clubs with ultra defensive setups. Paulinho played like a false winger, forward, playing from the inside which enabled us to fill the spaces that a very mobile forward like Gyokeres opens up. Opposing CB would have to deal with two mobile references which made their work way harder. Zirkzee like Paulinho would have more chances to finish due to Hojlund mobility and work rate.

With Amorim tactical approach, I think both Hojlund and Zirkzee can be compatible in certain circunstances. They could play off each other, in opposite movements. When one looks for support, the other could play in depth. I think United could have an interesting dual threat.
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I agree. For me he is very much a second striker rather than a traditional number 10.
 
Sly said:
I don't see Zirkzee as a no 10. I see Zirkzee playing in the Paulinho role (former Sporting player under Amorim).

As I've written previously.

I think Zirkzee can play the role Paulinho had at Sporting when we played two up with him next to Gyokeres specifically in games against bottom tables clubs with ultra defensive setups. Paulinho played like a false winger, forward, playing from the inside which enabled us to fill the spaces that a very mobile forward like Gyokeres opens up. Opposing CB would have to deal with two mobile references which made their work way harder. Zirkzee like Paulinho would have more chances to finish due to Hojlund mobility and work rate.

With Amorim tactical approach, I think both Hojlund and Zirkzee can be compatible in certain circunstances. They could play off each other, in opposite movements. When one looks for support, the other could play in depth. I think United could have an interesting dual threat.
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Thanks for the info mate and you know very well that I respect your views especially around Portuguese football

I can't see our wingers being able to slot in the wingback position. They simply lack the defensive awareness and workrate to do so. Therefore I believe they'll compete in the inside forward role (whom I can see them doing better there then Zirkzee does). The other slot will be taken by Bruno with mount as his cover

Thus all that is left is the stk position. TBF I believe that Zirkzee is a better player then he is currently showing. Though is he good enough for amorim not to sell him and then use the money to get gyokores in? Cause there's enough interest in Italy that would allow us to recoup the money we spent on zirkzee + there's no way (in my opinion) that we would have gyokeres, Zirkzee and hojlund on our payroll at the same time.
 
devilish said:
Thanks for the info mate and you know very well that I respect your views especially around Portuguese football

I can't see our wingers being able to slot in the wingback position. They simply lack the defensive awareness and workrate to do so. Therefore I believe they'll compete in the inside forward role (whom I can see them doing better there then Zirkzee does). The other slot will be taken by Bruno with mount as his cover

Thus all that is left is the stk position. TBF I believe that Zirkzee is a better player then he is currently showing. Though is he good enough for amorim not to sell him and then use the money to get gyokores in? Cause there's enough interest in Italy that would allow us to recoup the money we spent on zirkzee + there's no way (in my opinion) that we would have gyokeres, Zirkzee and hojlund on our payroll at the same time.
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It should be said that most fullbacks are also totally unable to play as wingbacks. The spaces that you have to cover and attack are totally different, it's a specialist role. Some fullbacks can do it but it's not a given.
 
JPRouve said:
It should be said that most fullbacks are also totally unable to play as wingbacks. The spaces that you have to cover and attack are totally different, it's a specialist role. Some fullbacks can do it but it's not a given.
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True. However I can't see our own wingers covering that space either. Quite honestly I fancy mazraoui's and dalot's chances there more then Garnacho's and Rashy's
 
devilish said:
True. However I can't see our own wingers covering that space either. Quite honestly I fancy mazraoui's and dalot's chances there more then Garnacho's and Rashy's
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Of course but that's true for nearly 99% of wingers, not just ours. As for Mazraoui and Dalot(for Porto), they have played as wingbacks and in the case of Mazraoui, he is one of those fullbacks that had a role with Ajax that look a lot like a wingback.
 
Crostien said:
The real 'false economy' has been created by state or franchise owned club, Abramovich and the like.

A good albeit unspectacular forward costs about 80 million these days. Muani and Isak won't particularly take us to any new height but, like Hojlund, would cost an absolute packet.

We need to react to these terms and start prioritising creating our own, because the market is getting smaller and tighter.
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I don't think anyone is advocating spending big money on Kolo Muani.
 
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