Ralf Rangnick vs Paul Mitchell

There's offering words of support and there's saying McTominay could be a future United captain.
 
I've criticized Rangnick but really the issue is there was Rangnick the actual guy who worked at United, and Rangnick the "cleansing fire" that some United fans imagined he was. The actual Rangnick was nowhere near as extreme. He just said some things, mostly normal things, nothing too extreme. Whether he would have succeeded as DoF or not is an open question.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I've criticized Rangnick but really the issue is there was Rangnick the actual guy who worked at United, and Rangnick the "cleansing fire" that some United fans imagined he was. The actual Rangnick was nowhere near as extreme. He just said some things, mostly normal things, nothing too extreme. Whether he would have succeeded as DoF or not is an open question.
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If you check his director work. He did nothing that the guys who wanted him would love to claim he did.

Mane, Kimmich, Haaland, Nkunku. Had zero Ralf involvement.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
People also tend to ignore that Rangnick praised a bunch of players that are near-universally considered "not good enough for United." Maguire, McTominay, Fred.
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To be fair he'd only been here about a month when he praised McTominay, and Scott had actually had one of the best months of his career. Any manager would have praised him at that point, but I don't remember any praise later on after Scott's form fell off terribly. And Fred was our best player during Rangnick's tenure as a whole, while his normal level was better than any of our midfielders have been this season.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah just to feck off the scousers,however don't see us making two recruitment appointments
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While I believe that INEOS structure is a serious upgrade to the one we have, I still believe that it has a structural weakness. Blanc is a fantastic money man but his knowledge about football is limited. Its evident that the manager will see most of his power reduced which means that most of the decision making will fall on Mitchell's laps. That's an issue because if the DOF fails then the whole project fails. That happened at Juventus during Blanc's administration were Secco was kept way past in time resulting to mistakes at transfer market level/fitness level that eventually saw Blanc being pushed out of the club. Sure Mitchell is not Secco but while Mitchell has loads of experience as head of recruitment his knowledge as DOF is somehow limited.

Having Edwards around as an external consultant would mean giving Blanc and Brailsford an extra pair of eyes in a subject they have little knowledge about. Edward's CV is amazing, probably at par if not better to Mitchell. He resurrected a sleeping giant something Mitchell had never done and he did so in a role Mitchell has little experience in. Edwards can operate at INEOS football branch (Nice, Man united and Lausanne) which means that Mitchell won't feel that someone is literally breathing at his neck.
 
Amir said:
It's the Sunday Mirror reporting on something reported in the Star. It doesn't get any lower than that.
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Reports aren't credible but would it be such a bad idea to think a proper search with all types of candidates based on profiles is done rather than just settling for whatever high profile name they can come up with .
 
RedPed said:
Dear Lord! We are indeed doomed!!
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Oh the drama. I had been a minority against Murtough despite him being a Woodward's appointment whose achievement as DOF were non existent. At least this Freedman guy has actual football experience in the role. Not that he would be my favourite
 
I would love Rangnick to be back here, no doubt that he is miles better than Murtough. For added insurance, I think he should also bring back Mitchell to work as a team. Hope this combination is bullet proof to at least bring us back to a proper functional club and not a laughing stock in world football. We have already spent billions after SAF retired to play mostly counter attacking football.
 
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Yakuza_devils said:
I would love Rangnick to be back here, no doubt that he is miles better than Murtough. For added insurance, I think he should also bring back Mitchell to work as a team. Hope this combination is bullet proof to at least bring us back to a proper functional club and not a laughing stock in work football. We have already spent billions after SAF retired to play mostly counter attacking football.
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Rangy has burnt his bridges at United. He aint coming back
 
sglowrider said:
Rangy has burnt his bridges at United. He aint coming back
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the problem with top level DOFs is that they tend not to stay silent and let owners have their way. Rangnick, Mitchell and Paratici had spoke bluntly or resigned/left their club when they felt that their independence to operate had been threatened. That's why the likes of Murtough are so loved by the Glazers. He will feed fans with buzz words such as data analysts, sports scientists, assistant DOF and technical directors while concurrently toe in line to Joel/Woodward's wishes.
 
Redivy said:
Rangnick is more accomplished than Mitchell but also 23 years his senior.

Paul Mitchell is the best candidate for Manchester United. He was at Southampton when they were the production factory for the league, he was at Spurs during their best years. And then he went to Leipzig and they had their best ever finish (3rd). And most recently he was at Monaco.

At only 42 he has so much left to offer and would be able to grow into the role.
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Think Leipzig’s best finish was under Hasenhuttl/Ragnick wasn’t it?
 
If mansplaining is gender neutral, and means someone confidently asserting as fact things they have slmost no clue about, I think this thread is probably a good place to find lots of it.
 
RedPed said:
Dear Lord! We are indeed doomed!!
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Why because he’s from Palace? Check his track record. Freedom is always very much a football man.. we’ve seen him play through the leagues. Started his management very young and has a lot of experience from his early year mistakes.

You would also hope he knows what a United footballer looks like which is the most important part of this job.
 
gajender said:
Reports aren't credible but would it be such a bad idea to think a proper search with all types of candidates based on profiles is done rather than just settling for whatever high profile name they can come up with .
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It absolutely would. Just because someone wasn't more than a decent footballer and is currently working at Palace doesn't mean he isn't great at what he currently does.

But I expect we'll have more names thrown around by the tabloids over the next few weeks.
 
Amir said:
It absolutely would. Just because someone wasn't more than a decent footballer and is currently working at Palace doesn't mean he isn't great at what he currently does.

But I expect we'll have more names thrown around by the tabloids over the next few weeks.
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Oh I agree Tabloids would throw lot of names but I just hope who so ever is overseeing these changes does a thorough search and isn't just fixated on big names .
 
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Amir said:
It absolutely would. Just because someone wasn't more than a decent footballer and is currently working at Palace doesn't mean he isn't great at what he currently does.

But I expect we'll have more names thrown around by the tabloids over the next few weeks.
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There have indeed been some great football coaches/managers who had very average careers as footballers while being a great footballer certainly doesn't translate to management, just looking at Lampard as one recent example.
 
Ragnick doesn’t even want the job what’s the point of this thread
 
RedPed said:
Dear Lord! We are indeed doomed!!
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Amir said:
It's the Sunday Mirror reporting on something reported in the Star. It doesn't get any lower than that.
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gajender said:
Reports aren't credible but would it be such a bad idea to think a proper search with all types of candidates based on profiles is done rather than just settling for whatever high profile name they can come up with .
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devilish said:
Oh the drama. I had been a minority against Murtough despite him being a Woodward's appointment whose achievement as DOF were non existent. At least this Freedman guy has actual football experience in the role. Not that he would be my favourite
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I mean reading the actual article it seems like he'll be a part of the football department and not the actual DOF
 
Rojofiam said:
Do we know anything about Dougie Freedman?
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He brought a lot of good young players to Crystal Palace in the last couple of years and was praised for it. But then, Palace also sacked Vieira and brought back Hodgson to replace him, which points to the kind of stylistic 180-ing that we've been pretty guilty of. You could argue that he didn't have much choice in that matter after Palace's run of 1 win in 17 at the time though.

Before the Guehis and Ezes came in, I vaguely remember Palace letting something like 12 first team players run their contracts down in the same summer. Some may view that as poor planning, but I think they were earning quite a lot of money while playing poorly, and it was getting those players off the books that allowed them to pick up the younger talents. He also somehow convinced Olise to stay put this summer despite Chelsea trying very hard to sign him.

I mean he seems to be good at his job and he gets a lot of credit from people who work with him, but you never know.
 
The hype over DOF here kinda reminds me when « Big Data » was all the rage in the corporate world.
Nobody really knew what it was, what it meant or what was its purpose, but everyone was talking about it as a cheat code to success
 
Lot of hype around Paul Mitchell but can someone tell me what gems has he unearthed in previous he has been?
 
Zed is not dead said:
The hype over DOF here kinda reminds me when « Big Data » was all the rage in the corporate world.
Nobody really knew what it was, what it meant or what was its purpose, but everyone was talking about it as a cheat code to success
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Possibly but there’s no surprise clubs with good structures are doing well. City, Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton before Mitchell left, Brentford
 
People seem to hold Rangnick in high esteem because of his open heart surgery comments but I don't see how it would've gone well for him if he did stay on. He didn't have the strength of character to trust his own convictions as a coach and sacrificed all of his principles, that doesn't bode well for a man who you're going to let run your recruitment.

I expect he would've just signed players from the Red Bull group in a similar way to how Ten Hag has largely targeted current and former Eredivisie players. All the links were to physical players with limited technical ability from what I remember. It's a completely different proposition doing that at an established Premier League club to a small fry Austrian team or lower division German side ascending the leagues.

I don't really know if Mitchell has what it takes to be a success here but given the choice of the two, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the one who hasn't proven himself incompetent here already.
 
Redivy said:
Rangnick is more accomplished than Mitchell but also 23 years his senior.

Paul Mitchell is the best candidate for Manchester United. He was at Southampton when they were the production factory for the league, he was at Spurs during their best years. And then he went to Leipzig and they had their best ever finish (3rd). And most recently he was at Monaco.

At only 42 he has so much left to offer and would be able to grow into the role.
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@JPRouve
 
CM10 said:
People seem to hold Rangnick in high esteem because of his open heart surgery comments but I don't see how it would've gone well for him if he did stay on. He didn't have the strength of character to trust his own convictions as a coach and sacrificed all of his principles, that doesn't bode well for a man who you're going to let run your recruitment.

I expect he would've just signed players from the Red Bull group in a similar way to how Ten Hag has largely targeted current and former Eredivisie players. All the links were to physical players with limited technical ability from what I remember. It's a completely different proposition doing that at an established Premier League club to a small fry Austrian team or lower division German side ascending the leagues.

I don't really know if Mitchell has what it takes to be a success here but given the choice of the two, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the one who hasn't proven himself incompetent here already.
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That's why I think it shouldn't be a role undertaken by one person as their concepts may mean very different things to others and they're effectively committing transactions of hundreds of millions.
 
Ahmer Baig said:
Lot of hype around Paul Mitchell but can someone tell me what gems has he unearthed in previous he has been?
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I'm not that bothered if he hasn't identified some obscure players that have turned out brilliant, having come from Burkina Faso and played in Canada or something like that. Just as long as he can identify players who will be fit, totally committed, exhibit a strong desire to win and meet the necessary skills for our style of play that would be a great benefit. I'd much rather we had 'obvious' players selected for their roles who bond well and have a good rapport with themselves and the manager than trying long shots. They should all have a commitment to be constantly improving their skills as well because it's seemed like once some have arrived here, they don't push on for whatever reason.

Ideally, I'd like to see the team be greater than the sum of its parts rather than a collection of individuals.
 
Freak said:
I think we should just put them into a two round contest:

1. WWE style smack talking
2. UFC style fight
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I reckon Rangnick talks a lot more smack and will make many grown men cry with a mic in front of him. Having said that, I think Paul Mitchell is a beast of a man who will throw punches like a construction worker wields a hammer. And you just know the game is over when he gets you on the ground.
 
didz said:
He brought a lot of good young players to Crystal Palace in the last couple of years and was praised for it. But then, Palace also sacked Vieira and brought back Hodgson to replace him, which points to the kind of stylistic 180-ing that we've been pretty guilty of. You could argue that he didn't have much choice in that matter after Palace's run of 1 win in 17 at the time though.

Before the Guehis and Ezes came in, I vaguely remember Palace letting something like 12 first team players run their contracts down in the same summer. Some may view that as poor planning, but I think they were earning quite a lot of money while playing poorly, and it was getting those players off the books that allowed them to pick up the younger talents. He also somehow convinced Olise to stay put this summer despite Chelsea trying very hard to sign him.

I mean he seems to be good at his job and he gets a lot of credit from people who work with him, but you never know.
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Thanks
 
Andy_Cole said:
Possibly but there’s no surprise clubs with good structures are doing well. City, Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton before Mitchell left, Brentford
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Agreed but the structure comes from the very top, and a holistic approach to work has to be set up. Every cog must turn in the direction it needs to for the whole machine to work.

You can have the best DoF on earth but if there’s no direction from the owners and no structure in place, he’ll fail. Just like a good number of DoF who were praised for their work at a given club failed when they went somewhere else.
 
I think we need peak Phil and Grant Mitchell. Shame Peggy isn't with us anymore r. I.p.

She'd have been excellent in player sales "get outta my club".
 
Rojofiam said:
Do we know anything about Dougie Freedman?
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Would be a massive blow to lose him and I’m not surprised there’s interest, I’d say he’s the most important person at our club. The number of teams that have come and gone (and come back again in some cases) with much bigger budgets than us is quite amazing really.

He built our promotion side whilst Manager, signing some absolute gems like Joel Ward, Damien Delaney, Mile Jedinak, Yannick Bolasie and Glen Murray for literal peanuts. Since coming back as DoF he’s managed us through periods of having literally no money with smart signings like Vicente Guaita, Gary Cahill and Jordan Ayew who have all been vital, and in more recent times when he has been given some cash he’s got in the likes of Andersen, Guehi, Doucoure, Olise and Eze who would all sell for 3x what we paid for them.

Wouldn’t be a flashy appointment but I am sure you could do a lot, lot worse. Dougie with an actual budget is a scary prospect.
 
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