Yup, standards were set from day one and it was either get onboard or be gone.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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Yup, standards were set from day one and it was either get onboard or be gone.
If this happens at UTD then those players need to be off loaded immediately.
I mean it's a cute debating point but you don't need to be the love child of ETH and Jurgen Klopp to work out that if you are pressing with even one less player then the other team can just outpass you. It's like expecting to win with a player sent off. That's why so much emphasis is placed on sweeper keepers.
And they're much worse when he plays.
And how long did it take Klopp to put together a winning team?
What does "winning team" even mean?
Klopp reached two finals in his first half-season. Was about to win Europa League if not for Mignolet and Moreno. Only mean-spirited, or obtuse, naysayers would claim that Klopp took a long time to "get it right", let alone Pep. Both were instant successes, within a sensible range of expectations. As they were in their previous jobs. As are Tuchel, Conte. As I imagine will be Ten Hag. .
You will have a horde of fans right here on the caf baying for ten hags blood.
I’m not suggesting we press with 7 players. I’m saying 7 players who are clearly good athletes is enough to play a pressing game and reasonably cover the physical deficiencies of the other players in the team, provided they’re putting a shift in. Like Klopp’s Liverpool did with physically deficient players such as Lucas or Allen.
A shitshow essentially.
We need to quickly dismantle this squad and start again. Too many protected players that are bigger than their boots.
ETH will have a big battle on his hands to begin with IMO.
No one asked Rangnick to put together a winning team, he was asked to put pressing team. You gave Klopp as an example and it took him one game to show what he is implementing at Liverpool. ManUtd fans are just full of excuses, to what level they come up with excuses is directly proportional to how much they love current manager or dislike previous one.
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Exactly, at ManUtd all we have is people come up with bunch of excuse for why mighty Rangnick can't ask the team to press.
Is clear there’s at least a couple of players who are causing issues behind the scenes. I wonder who they are? Let’s hope it is some of those moving on this summer (or being sold) then we can start fresh.
I see Ralf’s made some mates in the media.
‘Given that he himself is not exempt from blame for an awful season’
Reads as though it will be someone like Rashford if I’m honest as Lingard and Pogba haven’t been involved enough (could be the latter but I’m not sure it would be).
Reads as though it will be someone like Rashford if I’m honest as Lingard and Pogba haven’t been involved enough (could be the latter but I’m not sure it would be).
Liverpool league positions under Klopp going backwards in time : 2 (hopefully), 3, 1, 2, 4, 4, 8
I think most people would agree that he took 5 seasons to win the league.
This is very true. And they like to talk rubbish about things they've made no attempt to understand. Largely because they don't want to.
Fundamentally our fans are experiencing what psychologists call cognitive dissonance. They hand over their money because they want to belong to a tribe, a big gang. But to the club they are just customers, and particularly stupid ones at that, who can be fleeced with the promise of future success and phony narratives. The Glazers couldn't care less about anything the club does except its capacity to make money.
Yep it's certainly more than 1.
Wouldn't be surprised if Shaw,Lingard,Rashford,Henderson were the group tbh.
We shall see whether things improve next year, but ETH doesn't seem the type to accept this type of nonsense. I think Rangnick found it hard with such a short contract to really establish any respect/dominance.
Hopefully the club fully back him, even if it means moving on 'homegrown talent'
Will be glad for his managerial reign to come to a close today.. but glad he exposed so much going on at the club. It will spur the club to have to act because he’s made it so public, so for that, cheers ralf!
So irrelevant.
Cant wait for this tenure to be over, overall it was shit but aint even close to be worse than damage done by guy before him. ETH better not make same mistakes RR, he cant fix them, he needs to remove them from first team in any way and its not impossible even if you aint able to sell/loan them.
And yet Klopp finished 8th in his first season?? You need more attributes than, can run a lot to make the pressing game work. Football intelligence is also key. As well as actually being a decent footballer.So taking those factors into consideration we probably have 3 or at most 4 who meet the criteria. So yes. Well under half the team.
Ralf could of taken the easy way out and reverted back to the counter attacking we've been playing for the last number of years but if the club have decided they want to change tactics and play a more pressing type of football (hiring ETH proves the point) then what would be the point of reverting back? We've went through 6 months of very disjointed football but we did need to go through it because ETH isn't going to change his style and now it's becoming more obvious the players who are suited to his style and those who aren't which in turn will take a little bit of the pressure off of him because those problem areas have already been identified.
They finished 8th because they lacked quality on the ball. This is an argument about why Ralf didn’t have us pressing, not about our on ball qualities.
I don’t care who those players mentioned in the tweets above are. Whether it’s, Bruno, Rashford or even Ronaldo. They need booting out of the club.
Thank feck this is the end of Ralf in the dugout. It’s been grim.
This the big worry!
I get the impression, as information has leaked out, that every manager (including towards the end SAF) has had to battle on a number of fronts inside the club, not just with players and training schedules etc., but on transfers, on comings and goings, lots of people giving conflicting information that eventually overwhelms any coherent approach. Hope enough sh**e, hangers on, assistants, directors of, etc. have been off-loaded and ETH can hit the ground running... but not holding my breath!
And where do you think our quality on the ball is to turn it all around?
To play the pressing game as I've already mentioned isn't just a case of running around a lot. Everything needs to be coordinated down to a tee which is where the football intelligence comes into play but the most important factor is that the players buy into the philosophy. If they don't then it's impossible for the system to work. All it takes is one person not prepared to put in a shift and it all goes wrong.
With us half the team decided they didn't like the physical work it took to put this philosophy into action after the first game under Ralf. You can teach all you like but if the players don't want to learn then there's only going to be one outcome. And here we are today.
As you say, nothing is every as simple and straight forward as it should be at this club.
There is hope though now that Woodward has gone things might become less mickey mouse and more football related. You have to say the signs in the background so far are moving in a positive direction.
I think the penny might have dropped with the Glazers finally. You can't just spend a few quid in the transfer market and hope for the best with average coaching staff.
Maybe the right manager never came up at the right moment, but I really do feel confident in ETH. He has the right mix of everything to succeed here, but the fans have to be patient with him.
Source?
Agree with more or less everything you say. Actually I don't think there was such a thing as a' right manager' after SAF; as it seems there had been no coherent succession planning, that took into account the way football at PL level was changing.
However, we can all be wise after the event, I think Ralf's stint as manager will come to be seen as something of a watershed in the future. He is obviously more consultant than actual team manager and has asked for something he did not get it so he stood back and let the whole thing topple over under the dead weight, exposing the short comings in 'direct sunlight' so to speak!
ETH can only hope the 'minefield' he is about to enter has been plotted out properly!
Common sense is the source. You don't bring in someone famed for their philosophy in gegenpressing and after half a game have him completely change his way of thinking because it seemed like a good idea at the time.The only logical explanation is the players didn't fancy it and decided to take the rest of the season off but I'd be willing to listen to any other scenarios on why it went so wrong so quickly.
Yeah but that doesn't mean that he hadn't created a good team that successfully played his style long before that. Only one team can only ever win the league per season, does that mean only one manager is creating a "winning team" per year? That's a silly way of labeling it.
I don't doubt that the players let their foot off the gas, I mean we've seen this before and we also know the morale has been terrible. But I don't really buy into the whole 30 minute Palace thing.. if I remember correctly, whe Rangnick came in his preparations were immediately disrupted by either an international break or a lockdown, or both, because I remember reading about him doing training sessions over Zoom. So I seriously doubt he managed to implement a coordinated press in one or two training sessions. It looked more like a new manager bounce and initial excitement before they eventually became disillusioned by the training methods and lost confidence in the coaches. Some of them complained about the lack of preparation and we can definitely see that, for example when he decided to go 5 back at the last minute and everyone looked lost.
I'm the first to admit that Ralf has many faults his worst (best?) being his man management but there has to be a logical explanation on why we haven't seen any gegenpressing since that first 30 minutes against CP when his specific strength is in that area.You make valid points citing the interruptions when he first came in but not when he's had extended runs on trying to get his philosophy across.
Of course the coaching side will effect how the players respond and in this case the players didn't respond favourably but the situation we're in is a lot more complicated than simply saying Ralf is shit. We are all in general agreement that our players this season haven't gave a good account of themselves yet it's Ralf taking all the blame. I just find it ironic when Ole found himself in difficult situations he was almost absolved with people blaming the players but with Ralf it's the exact opposite. There just doesn't seem to be a happy medium for some which is why I think people are over compensating in their defence of Ralf and I have to say I include myself in this. He isn't good enough to be manager but that doesn't mean he can't be beneficial to the club when his interim comes to a close today and I find it difficult to understand why people want to discard him because he failed in a job he wasn’t qualified for in thr first place.
This whole “mates in the media” lark is getting really tiresome
No offense but I think you're talking obvious rubbish. In his first season he finished 8th and now he's reached two Champions League Finals and might do the quadruple. He started off with a bit of a mess and built something really good over time. If these facts don't fit your alternative thesis then your thesis is wrong.
Probably something along the lines of ‘a poor manager through the course of his career brought in poor coaches and wasn’t able to explain what he wanted’
It’s mental the way people cling on to those 60 minutes vs Palace 
Seems like he starts the process of letting go Ronaldo. Making it easy for ETH.
He just can't stop himself from putting his Swabian cheese foot into his mouth, the obnoxious twat. What an insufferable person. Just the worst. Austria hates him already, too.
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