Is the club just not aware that ETH is even more hotblooded than this? We will have two authoritarian disciplinarians. The days of that liberal atmosphere they enjoyed are dead. Ralf is almost bedding them for what is to come. I noticed ETH's comment about Ronaldo already had social media fans triggered. Wait till they find out how deeply he meant those words.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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Is the club just not aware that ETH is even more hotblooded than this? We will have two authoritarian disciplinarians. The days of that liberal atmosphere they enjoyed are dead. Ralf is almost bedding them for what is to come. I noticed ETH's comment about Ronaldo already had social media fans triggered. Wait till they find out how deeply he meant those words.
The point I am making is regardless of the manager our structure is wrong. We have an extremely poor scouting set up and an even worse set up for coaching and developing players, be they youth or investments.
There's at least 5 or 6 players from the LVG era still here (Jones, Mata, Martial, Rashford, Lingard) probably a few more form Jose's stint and then we've added further problematic players during Ole's tenure.
The only players in the squad today that are good enough to stick around for ETH are De Gea, Varane, Bruno, Sancho and Ronaldo. Even at that, most of them could and will be moved in in the next 2/3 years for various reasons.
Expecting "more" from them is irrelevant... the "more" will still not be enough to close in on City or Liverpool.
"The reason why the club contacted me in November was the fact they just conceded too many goals too easily." - Ralf Rangnick
He was brought in to push for top 4.
This guy might have elite footballing ideas, but as a manager he's not that great tactially.
Ole is twice the tactician but people will never be ready for that conversation
Ole is twice the tactician but people will never be ready for that conversation
It's an interesting one. I do think he is quite clearly a very average coach (at best, as his CV shows), but there's no doubt in my mind that the players saw an interim manager coming from Russia with no titles to his name and lessened their work rate even further. I don't think he is lying when it has been reported that players are actively playing against how he is trying to coach them. Whether his methods would be successful or not is another question, but flatout refusing to play to his system is dooming us from the outset.
But with that said, his man management has been atrocious. I do think we have a bunch of whingebag's at the club, but constantly using every press conference to say it probably is a bit much...
But with that said, his man management has been atrocious. I do think we have a bunch of whingebag's at the club, but constantly using every press conference to say it probably is a bit much...
I just don’t buy that the players would actively play against his tactics. Ultimately, they want to win matches and aren’t immune to the fact that they are getting immense criticism themselves.
My suspicion is that he’s been incapable of properly getting across what he wants them to do. That’s then causing confusion and disharmony as he’s then getting frustrated that they aren’t fulfilling whatever vision he has and the players, in turn, are probably getting frustrated that he’s blaming everything on them when they probably see him as a major issue.
The reality is that calling the players out publicly is only ever a manager trying to protect their own reputation. It is never going to be productive. As an interim especially, RR should definitely not be doing that. Even if he thinks they are all a total waste of space, that should be part of his report to the board, not something to share with the media.
My suspicion is that he’s been incapable of properly getting across what he wants them to do. That’s then causing confusion and disharmony as he’s then getting frustrated that they aren’t fulfilling whatever vision he has and the players, in turn, are probably getting frustrated that he’s blaming everything on them when they probably see him as a major issue.
The reality is that calling the players out publicly is only ever a manager trying to protect their own reputation. It is never going to be productive. As an interim especially, RR should definitely not be doing that. Even if he thinks they are all a total waste of space, that should be part of his report to the board, not something to share with the media.
I do, you mean the same players that are leaking inside talk to the media...the thing you round out your comment with as being the wrong thing to do?
Lingard is openly posting photos of his time at WH to his social media profiles and clearly reporting to ex players like Scholes as we say and heard on Saturday.
My suspicion is we've a mix of players that A) aren't intelligent enough to adapt to his requirements and B) just toxic and are downing tools and the latter is absolutely acceptable to call out.
Ralf's last press conference is on May 20th - Are we going to get a complete massacre on everything within the club ?
Its only when Pep and Klopp come to Man Utd and Fail with the current squad that people will finally realise that it might actually be Players!
Which proves the point that players will only play when they want to. What they're currently doing is the real world equivalent of going to work and smashing your keyboard to bits and taking a shit in the coffee machine because your manager is 'bad' based on your personal opinion. Only in football can you completely phone in your performances and get your boss sacked.
Let's not forget they got Ron Atkinson sacked too.
It proves no such thing.
If you actually believe football players only play when they want to then why even bother hiring a manager.
The problem was ... nobody was calling out anyone and nothing was getting addressed and therefore each year we were getting the same old crap repeating itself.
What Ralf is doing is questioning the whole United set up and demanding changes and even better, he's putting it out there to the whole world to see.
Because of all this, we might actually start to see real progress in how our football club is run.
Getting top 4 without him would have changed nothing going forward, we needed someone like him to come in and say it as it is.
Pretty much
The poster said that most these players aren't involved much anymore, doesn't matter. Mata is seen as a senior figure who is supposed to set the standards for the club... akin to Kompany when he was in his final days at City. It's apples and oranges stuff then when you compare the too.
We've invested heavily, but poorly for a decade.
It doesn't matter what player you single out or under which manager... they can do better, but their best is still not enough to close the gap to City and Liverpool.
Rangnick already said all this stuff about United underperforming and not signing the right players in 2019.
Nothing changed because saying things doesn't matter unless you have the authority to implement those changes. Does he? He's been hired as an outside consultant. United doesn't have to do anything he says.
I'm not so sure know why people are shocked with our poor results under RR, i was already felt pessimistic when he was first appointed mainly because of the squad we have is ill-suited to his preferential system and his coaching credential is questionable after being out of coaching job for nearly a decade, so i kinda expected things to be real bad though the lack of humility he's shown so far is quite shocking (when he was first arrived we had fire broke out in our front yard, worrying but still salvagable today the whole house is under fire and RR is partially responsible for that) even then i still hope we will stick with our original plan with him, which is re-building a modern club with modern mindset and RR is the only person in this club with credential and expertise of doing that.
They don't have to, but clearly...they have.
He recommended ETH... He's the new manager.
The board aren't going to hire someone, pay them a few mill to fully ignore them. Some of his ideas will be followed through on, others perhaps not.
Which is exactly how you'd expect it to go.
You expect ETH to have 100% control of the squad, including the in's and out's? prepare to be dissapointed, LvG was the only manager gifted with that privilege, the others had to deal with the board intervening their job this is how we kept Jones, Rojo, Lingard, Romero, Darmian, Martial, Pogba, etc, even when the managers saw no use of them.
They hired Ten Hag and supposedly are looking at hiring Mitchell, I'd say they seem to be listening to him
Also I'd say its a good thing he had that opinion in 2019
He wasn't brought in for the consultant role, it was a demand he made. He didn't want to leave his Lokomotiv Moscow job for a 6 month interim position.
Pretty much
The poster said that most these players aren't involved much anymore, doesn't matter. Mata is seen as a senior figure who is supposed to set the standards for the club... akin to Kompany when he was in his final days at City. It's apples and oranges stuff then when you compare the too.
I think you're on to something here mate. Mata, Jones and DeGea are the only 3 players to play for Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole that are still here but both Jones and DeGea played for SAF and won titles so they can't be bad influences. But Mata arrived in January 2014 and 3 months later Moyes gets the sack, coincidence?
And then he was here when Van Gaal, Mourinho and Solskjaer all got sacked, Mata's been the problem all along hasn't he?
Who'd have known that cheeky little Spanish hug giving bastard was a bad apple responsible for the poor dressing room culture over the last decade. Rangnick probably has a dossier on him as thick as a phonebook.
I don't think so.
I think it's more a case of Ralf's ideas are dated.
If you can't pass out from the back and be extremely competent at retaining possession you won't have the required energy to press teams effectively.
Ralf hasn't improved our passing out from the back at all hence our pressing hasn't really improved much.
His whole philosophy is to press and then try to get a shot within 6 seconds of winning the ball back.
That's impossible in the way football is played in 2022 and as he hasn't spent much time coaching in the last 10 years he hasn't developed his ideas on how to play out from the back.
I know as a club we're very incompetently run but to bring in an interim who hasn't had much success as a manager as opposed to a consultant in a role he's proved to be one of the worlds best doesn't make any kind of sense. People are just reaching their own conclusions to keep sticking a knife in the man.
FFS. I think that's the most bizarre take I've heard on here. Give Ralf 3 years and 400m and I'd bet large amounts of money we wouldn't be in the situation we're in today. And that's coming from someone who doesn't rate Ralf as interim.Ole is twice the tactician but people will never be ready for that conversation
This. It´s always been so strange how people, pundits and supporters, built up the narrative around this. It was obvious it was a construction to get him as an interim and it was also the easiest PR choice. As Ten Hag is too. That said, they could still make a difference in their respective roles.
What I don’t get is this argument that these players have downed tools under three managers, they clearly haven’t…
1) the players are completely different from LVG to now, unless we think Jones is the only player at fault.
2) various players have had various dips under different managers. Take martial for example. He was great under LVG, bailed out Mourinho on occasion and even performed very well for Ole, he’s just fallen off a cliff since but how can you put that down to ‘downing tools’? Same point can be made for many of those players and when even new signings are coming in and underperforming, at what point do you have to shift the blame away from the individuals and instead point at the platform?
The players deserve criticism for the way this season has gone, but if you can’t see that the dressing room confidence is in shambles right now then you’re watching a different sport. All of these players too a man have been thrown under the bus by our fanbase including those that have already proven their quality (I.e Bruno, Ronaldo, even Rashford and Maguire to a degree). The fact remains, when every single player looks out of sorts, unmotivated and devoid of confidence the buck stops with the manager. It doesn’t matter if it takes 100 managers, it is their job to get the players up for it and it’s their job to provide the platform for them to succeed.
Ragnick speaks well, he makes some brilliant points and I fully agree with his assessment of our board and many of the squad. What I firmly disagree with is this notion he’s done well under the circumstances as an interim. He’s clearly done an objectively poor job and when you look at the state of Arsenal and Spurs you can’t tell me this Utd team can’t finish above them with some competent coaching and motivation.
1) the players are completely different from LVG to now, unless we think Jones is the only player at fault.
2) various players have had various dips under different managers. Take martial for example. He was great under LVG, bailed out Mourinho on occasion and even performed very well for Ole, he’s just fallen off a cliff since but how can you put that down to ‘downing tools’? Same point can be made for many of those players and when even new signings are coming in and underperforming, at what point do you have to shift the blame away from the individuals and instead point at the platform?
The players deserve criticism for the way this season has gone, but if you can’t see that the dressing room confidence is in shambles right now then you’re watching a different sport. All of these players too a man have been thrown under the bus by our fanbase including those that have already proven their quality (I.e Bruno, Ronaldo, even Rashford and Maguire to a degree). The fact remains, when every single player looks out of sorts, unmotivated and devoid of confidence the buck stops with the manager. It doesn’t matter if it takes 100 managers, it is their job to get the players up for it and it’s their job to provide the platform for them to succeed.
Ragnick speaks well, he makes some brilliant points and I fully agree with his assessment of our board and many of the squad. What I firmly disagree with is this notion he’s done well under the circumstances as an interim. He’s clearly done an objectively poor job and when you look at the state of Arsenal and Spurs you can’t tell me this Utd team can’t finish above them with some competent coaching and motivation.
That post made no mention (directly or in passing) about having 100% control of the squads ins and outs. Perhaps are you mixing the terms "authoritarian" with "autonomy". When one says ETH governs his players like an authoritarian style of leader, this is not the same as talking about how much squadbuilding autonomy he gets in relation to the higher ups, board , directors, etc. The amount of autonomy he'll have is a totally different topic. For one no one actually knows how Arnold will run the club.
Christ on a bike, I'm assuming your full time occupation is stand up comedian yeah? Here's an insane idea, maybe... just maybe don't take things a billion percent so literal? Mind blown I know right?
Mata was and never was on the calibre of Kompany. The obvious point you didn't / don't comprehend cause you're too busy trying to be a funny smart arse is this... Mata is not a leader, nor was he ever. Yet the club saw fit to put him in this role, why?
Now if you had say... Ronaldo in a similar type role, wouldn't it be completely different? Did I blow your tiny mind again?
Again, Mata isn't a singular problem... I used him as an example, you can consider Matic also if you wish and probably countless others for various reasons be they simply not good enough technically as players (Dalot, AWB, Maguire), lack in game intelligence (AWB, Shaw, Maguire, McTominay) to learn and adapt to a managers requests, bad attitudes (Martial, Cavani, Lingard, Pogba).
Look forward to more great stand up lines in your next retort.
That didn't work for Ole and in case you missed it and the point we are addressing is, players are refusing to follow his instructions.
Maybe if they did they might actually learn something and be able to do what he is requesting?
Quite surreal to see people still defend our players, if we had you and few others running the club Jones would be in line for another contract this summer.
I swear a lot of our fans enjoy us being consistently shit just so they have something to moan about
They dont have to, thats why hes a consultant. But the people in authority put Rangnick in high esteem and evidently follow his advice.
Was the 2 year consultancy role the club's idea though? Or was it a condition of Ralf's for leaving Moscow to take the Interim job?
The Times reported back in November that a position at United on a 2 year deal was Rangnick's condition for leaving his job at Lokomotiv.
Crazy that all these changes are coming about 3-years later than promised. During Ole's interim period, we were promised huge structural changes and a thorough process in appointing Jose's successor. The club instead chose a band aid to paper over what required major surgery, by appointing Ole as permanent manager.
The club has known for years that changes were required, but they buried their head in the sand because Ole got some ok league finishes. I imagine they couldn't believe their luck when he got 3rd and 2nd, and seemed to have unanimous support from the fanbase. It gave our Board a nice easy 3-years.
Ralf has come in and reinforced what needs to be done; but I do feel the club was always aware of this and were ridiculously praying that Ole was the answer. It's hard to say what impact Ralf has had, but I like his honesty. I understand that some may feel differently, and so-be-it.
How come we've been as bad and even worse at times under Rangnick except the first 20 minutes vs Palace? Isn't he the tactical genius that Klopp and Tuchel learned from? Isn't he the one we expected would make the team organised and press well?
How come Dortmund studied our games vs City before their quarter-finals vs City last year? Because after Liverpool we were the only team that gave them a game until Tuchel joined Chelsea.
Do you see this current team beating PSG away from home convincingly? Or beating City? Hell, we couldn't even beat Lampard's Chelsea at the moment (and that's not difficult)
Under Ole we were actually going somewhere until we brought in Ronaldo and he tried to shoehorn too many passengers into 1 team (Ronaldo, Pogba, maybe even DDG) that eventually cost him his job. Hell, he even found a good position for Pogba on the left where he had probably the most impact during his 6-year tenure at the club. Our 20/21 side with Ole would absolutely destroy this 21/22 side with Rangnick.
Like I've said, people aren't ready for this conversation and never will be, because the media narratives destroyed Ole's reputation for good unless he comes back into management and achieves something big at another team.
Well put!
The managers brought in the players. It´s the whole spectra - board, profile of the club, players, managers.
The managers brought in the players. It´s the whole spectra - board, profile of the club, players, managers.
Wow what an angry overreaction to an attempt at bit of light hearted banter in what has become a super serious and somewhat nasty thread.
I wasn't trying to take the piss out of you or your post. I was obviously making a joke about the idea that Juan fecking Mata, the almost universally loved little scamp in the squad, who signs off social media posts with 'Hugs'' is somehow a bad boy with a toxic influence on the rest of the players and the cause of 4 managers getting sacked.
This notion that Ralf was purely brought in to secure top four needs to die at the hill it was planted on. How some people cannot see that he is a means to the ultimate end of long-term restructuring of the footballing direction of the club is astounding.
Yes, we haven't been good under Ralf.
Yes, we perhaps won't make top four this season under Ralf.
Little picture. Narrow perspective. If you only see one battle to the next, you'll never understand how to win a war.
Ralf was brought in by Murtaugh to evaluate and assess the squad in preparation for the next manager to build upon.
Ralf was brought in to be a part of the process of ensuring that the next manager continued a revised sporting direction.
Big structural changes take time.
Yes, we haven't been good under Ralf.
Yes, we perhaps won't make top four this season under Ralf.
Little picture. Narrow perspective. If you only see one battle to the next, you'll never understand how to win a war.
Ralf was brought in by Murtaugh to evaluate and assess the squad in preparation for the next manager to build upon.
Ralf was brought in to be a part of the process of ensuring that the next manager continued a revised sporting direction.
Big structural changes take time.
Wow what an angry overreaction to an attempt at bit of light hearted banter in what has become a super serious and somewhat nasty thread.
I wasn't trying to take the piss out of you or your post. I was obviously making a joke about the idea that Juan fecking Mata, the almost universally loved little scamp in the squad, who signs off social media posts with 'Hugs'' is somehow a bad boy with a toxic influence on the rest of the players and the cause of 4 managers getting sacked.
Aye, I get that... thing is, tone is lost in text.
He isn't the toxic sort, simply not a leader yet the club put him in that role. We've any number of issues at the club as pointed out in my reply.
Shouldn't come as a surprise that supporters are on edge right now
I agree
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