Rafael, Smalling, Evans, Fabio

Walrus said:
Would this have been a better and more consistent back four for us over the last ~5-10 years than what we have had?
How would they stack up right now (current ages) against our current defensive options?

I remember back in the day thinking that between Evans and the twins, we had 3/4 of our backline sorted for the next decade. I always rated Smalling too, and think his whole "cant pass" memery is very overstated - when he first joined us he looked like the natural successor to Rio as the ball playing defender.

I am of the opinion that a lot of our defensive woes stem from the lack of a DM, and a GK who is glued to their line. I think you could put Van Dijk or any elite defender (eg Varane) into our system and they would struggle. Nonetheless, given the amount of money we have spent on defenders over the last 5-10 years (Rojo, Bailly, Darmian, Blind, Dalot, Telles, Maguire, Varane.. probably others ive forgotten), I cant help but wonder if we would have been better off just sticking with what we had.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers Smalling being an excellent ball player under Fergie. He was pinging long passes to feet in 2011.
 
dove said:
None of them were that good and all of them had quite a few glaring weaknesses in their game so the answer is no, it's just a case of time healing wounds. They were definitely not better than our current bunch or anything we had in the last 5 years really.
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Jonny Evans won the league. Chris Smalling is probably no worse than Maguire if we're being honest. The problem with @Walrus back four isn't talent, though, it's the fact that they were all injured for 20+ games a season so you'd maybe see that back four for a few games at best.

I think Maguires lack of injuries is an understated benefit. We have regularly looked WORSE without him - but fortunately he's rarely that injured. Our problems stem from having awful backups and anybody next to him being absolute calamities in addition to his totally bereft of confidence year himself.
 
I think it was the right decision to sell the likes of Smalling and Evans at the time. We had world class defenders like Rio and Vidic when they were playing for United who were obviously miles better.

The reason it seems a mistake now is more due to how poor our defence was last season and how much we've regressed as a team even though I think both are very good players.

Rafael I would have kept for longer however.
 
It's only worth selling if you get an upgrade. At the time we thought we were, but in hindsight both Smalling and Evans could've been useful players, given the expensive flops we have turned over.

Both of them have done well at smaller clubs, a little bit out of the spotlight perhaps, so for them it worked out OK.
 
Having to watch Turn Back Tony at fullback was more than enough to make me long for the days of Rafael.

As others have said, the selling wasn’t so much an issue as the replacing. You don’t let Smalling & Evans go to ultimately land on Maguire for £80mil.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The hypothetical PL/CL challenging Manchester United team would have a back four made out of players good enough to thrive at other teams with similar ambitions. Seeing as not one of the players in the OP had that sort of career after leaving us then we were obviously right to try and upgrade them.

Did we do a good job of upgrading them? Another obvious answer. No.
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this is not necessarily a good indicator of quality. koulibaly , Jamie Vardy, Reus, Rice etc where not in contention for any major title I. The last 3 years but there is absolutely no doubt that they have world class quality. It takes more for a big team to purchase a player. Things like injury record, asking price, age , necessity etc. for example, we needed Rafael more than any of the top 4 teams
 
I still feel it was a mistake to let Smalling go but I'm made up for him as he's doing well in Italy and won a trophy.

Evans, not so much. We let him go at the right time for me.
 
big rons sovereign said:
Evans was shocking. Made Maguire look like prime Baresi. He still drops plenty of brainfarts at Leicester too.
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Glad someone said this.
Fergie left a clapped out team destined for mid table, and Evans being quality are two of the most infuriating revisionist pieces seen on redcafe.

Evans had some decent seasons next to all time greats, but his last season for us was one of the all time worst centre back seasons we've seen.

He probably could have stayed as a Bailly/Jones style 4th choicer though.
 
In an alternative universe, Rafael and Evans both stay in the United squad for at least five years longer than they actually did.
 
Tavern in the town said:
Getting rid of Evans was a huge mistake and he’s been solid for Leicester for years.
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Before we got rid of him he was absolutely appaling. He could have been a very good defender, if we handled SAF departure better, but when we sold him he absolutely needed a change of scenery.
 
There has probably been a thread about the Brazilian players at United through history, but my god how do we always get that wrong. Rafael was definitely one of the better ones but I never felt relaxed about him and he was nowhere near world class. His brother, the less said the better.
 
Other than Smalling, none were reliable fitness-wise. For that reason alone, it didn't make sense to build a back line around them.
 
The aspirations of this club at the time was to have the best defence in the literal world ,and every single one of those players were measured against that yardstick. Relative to the defensive lines we put out during our record-breaking defensive runs, only Evans had that level of talent, and indeed contributed to that run next to Vidic (and no, not because Vidic became a Godforce and carried him, as Evans outshone him at points in said run and was quality in his own right).

Relative to that scale, next came Rafael, who although a rash, clearly had the makings of a top class RB, but injuries utterly ruined him, and he was never the same player after that.

Things drop a level or two for the others as relative to the aspirations of those times, Smalling's lack of ability on the ball made him stick out like a sore thumb, also his inability not to reach for opposition shirts had him heavily scrutinised. In fact, he was rarely allowed to grow and be his own man here as he was always measured against the creme de la creme of defenders and obviously never stood a chance in that regard - both he and Jones were seen as a bit of a joke because they were measured against Rio and Vidic and every mistake made was amplified because of that.

Fabio's tenure is and was shrouded in mystery as he was stated as the de facto better twin during their youth, but never got anywhere near Rafael at the professional level or in our shirt. There's nothing he showed then that would usurp Shaw at any point in their careers.

The issue with Evans is the way our fans turned on him and rewrote his history here, which is evident in this thread and practically any other he is mentioned in. He clearly had the talent, but he suffered a crises of confidence and never recovered from that, partly because of how he was subsequently treated, which made no sense then or now. Ultimately, he didn't have the mental fortitude to handle pressure right at the top of the food chain; he was actually superb at his best, but mistakes and bad decisions really disrupted him and from there things cascaded. It's a real shame as far as I'm concerned because unlike the others, it was what was going on upstairs and manifested on the pitch that was his downfall.

Anyway, relative to what we have become and the calibre of player we have: both an on form Smalling or Evans could easily contest with Maguire; Rafael has no competition at RB except his own body; Fabio stands no chance and a fit Varane isn't losing out to anyone from that group, so it's a 50:50 blend.

As a whole unit, I think it's quite close, but you would say at the peak of their performance levels the current lot would take it because Fabio never in his life had a run of games like some of AWB's, and Shaw's peak is the best of all those full-backs. Evans' top form is a match to what either Varane or Maguire have shown in a United shirt at their own best, but Smalling ultimately has limitation problems so you're getting a defender who can't play there, which is problematic in itself.
 
As a 4 over these last 10 years I dont think we would be any different to what we were now. Rafael always jumped in and you could see a card happening. Good going forward though. Evans looked ok when playing with a good CB like Rio, but wasnt so good when he was the leading CB. Smalling scored a few goals, but wasnt a good CD and Fabio was better on the right.
None of them were elite players when you consider the players we have had.
 
I remember Rafael putting Ronaldo in his pocket abd Ronaldo having a hissy fit.

I remember Evans was part of the defence that set a new record fir consecutive clean sheets when vidic was struggling with pace.

I don't remember smalling ever struggling against anyone physically.

None of our defenders have shown anything like this aside for Shaw in one season.
 
Smalling is comfortably the best CB Utd have had, performance wise, in the post Fergie era. Maguire is much better on the ball( I don't know where this idea that Maguire is shit on the ball comes from, he has the odd woeful moment, but generally he is quite good) but a far, far, weaker defender. Varane, if he was even 90% of his peak might take that throne, but not optimistic there.
 
Kostov said:
You put VVD and Kompany behind Fred and MCT they’d still concede 40+ goals. We have lacked a proper CDM for years. If we bought Fabinho and had Smalling and Evans as CBs, we’d have something we never had, a functional core.
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Agreed. Look at how our CBs at the club have performed since Carrick declined/retired (bar the one stretch under Van Gaal who placed incredible emphasis on that part of the pitch)
 
Dont know why people romanticize these players. I liked Rafeal but look at where he is playing now. You think every club is silly for not buying him?
 
Fabio and Rafael really shouldn't be grouped together as footballers. One of them made a hundred league appearances for us in one of the club's most successful spells and went on to have a respectable career at Lyon - the other played 22 league games for us and was playing in the Championship by the age of 24.

We let all 4 of them go at the right time. Evans and Rafael were both great in our last title win under Fergie and it's fair to wonder if they would have kicked on if he stayed another couple of years - but he didn't, and they were both poor under Moyes (Evans was even worse in Van Gaal's first season). Smalling was good under Van Gaal but shocking for three seasons under Mourinho - I've seen people here post the numbers a few times showing we consistently leaked more goals when he was on the pitch. Another one who needed to move and has found his level - I'd still have him back but only because I think Lindelof is garbage and Bailly is useless.
 
Rafael was the one player out of those 4 I miss.

Smalling was at his best when he had Blind next to him thinking for him.

Evans was so good at one point that if Rio or Vidic were missing you wouldnt be worried about Evans stepping in. But when he was off form he was woeful. The move away from United probably was the best thing for him even if Van Gaal was too quick to get rid of him and replace him with Blackett/MacNair.

Rafa Smalling, Evans and Fabio is a back four Fergie would have played as rotation. Would never have been first choice then and shouldnt ever have been afterwards but then we did do an appalling job of replacing Rio,Vidic and Evra.
 
Rafael > Smalling > Evans > Fabio

Rafael was sold to soon basically because LVG doesn't like Brazilians. Could've done a job for longer.

I was happy to see the other 3 go for different reasons.
 
All I can think about in this thread is how much moaning referees would have to put up with if we had both Bruno and Evans.
 
Rafael if he could stay fit would have been a really good player for us, the rest meh...

Evans has too many errors in him to be a centerback for a team with title aspirations. Smalling is a great defender if your ambition is pushing for CL spots but his passing is nowhere near the quality for a team beyond that.

Fabio never really had a chance, his body wasn't capable of being a professional footballer.
 
Dante said:
Evans and Fabio were decent, but not really good enough to be starters for a top 4 team (Evans had the ability, but seemingly lacked the mentality).

Rafael and Smalling probably were just about good enough. But Rafael was no better than Valencia. And Smalling was worse on the ball than any other defender we've had since. I don't think either would have been an upgrade on what came after them. We could have saved a lot of money if we'd stuck them, though.
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Agree with a lot of this. Evans had mentality issues. Fabio and Rafael with injuries. Smalling just didn't have the technique.
 
Letting first Evans and then Blind go for peanuts, and then signing Maguire for £80 million is ridiculous. And we should’ve kept the ones with the right mentality and sufficient ability (Rafael, Chicharito, Herrera), even as squad players for a few years.
 
If Fergie had been 5 years younger, they all would have stayed on. No way Rafael or Evans should have been sold when they were. Smalling was a good player who needed a better centre back with him.
 
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