It's not overly simplistic at all.
Rafael is clearly a talented player. Our manager should be taking him and ironing out any perceived faults, not freezing him out.
This is one of a number of areas where LvG is fecking up.
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It's not overly simplistic at all.
Rafael is clearly a talented player. Our manager should be taking him and ironing out any perceived faults, not freezing him out.
This is one of a number of areas where LvG is fecking up.
Different kind of injuries, different players You need to be a lot more careful with a pulled hamstring or a groin strain than with a injured shoulder or rib. Herrera hurt his back. That's a type of injury that you don't want to become frequent. Rafael has always been very injury prone. That's not normal. You just want to throw him on the pitch again only to be injured again like usual? Last couple of times he got minutes he didn't come out clean.
Do you mean that utterly arbitrary substitution of Shaw whilst actually being one of our best players on the pitch?
This goes back to Nov/Dec, and like it or not he remains a better influence at RB than Valencia. If the debate centres around who should play RWB however, well then maybe Tony holds sway there.
Can you actually quantify the number of weeks this season for which injury has indisputably ruled him out of the matchday squad, or are you simply implying the above based upon hearsay and perception?
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Yub. Part of the stubbornness. Decided before the game that Shaw should only play 60 minutes at the advice of his physio, doesn't sway from that conviction despite of performance.
^ We could just as well have hired a member of the Borg Collective, it wouldd intimidate the media just the same and march on regardless.
Why do you all keep using Blind as an example of coming straight from injury to playing? He was back in training for almost 3 weeks before making his first appearance and van Gaal has said he wasn't meant to play the full 90 but van Persie got injured and he had to.
No he's not. Valencia's been comfortably the better of the two this season.
Rafael may have been better two seasons ago but what manager picks his team based on form from two years before he took over?
And Rafael has been in 'training' for weeks on end too.
If I've interpreted LvG's statements correctly, he's playing 352 because he feels that it suits the likes of Valencia and Young better, which is fair enough. But Rafael is undoubtedly a preferable option for a four at the back system, which is what a number of us want to see.
I agree that Valencia's form has been pretty decent overall.
The form he demonstrated earlier on in the season (along with Di Maria) was far more beneficial to the team than anything we've seen from Valencia. The 3-5-2 does give Valencia an advantage over Rafael i would agree, should we continue to employ it, however so far as RBs go there is a marked difference in quality.
Van Gaal ought to be deciding on a way by which to start them both.
Well if/when we play a back four and Rafael remains on the bench, that would be the time to complain.
To be honest, though, Rafael's been so poor in his last couple of appearances (and Valencia so solid) I'm not sure I agree with that either. Would certainly not be picking on form.
Maybe at RB but I guess not at RWB, which is where LvG clearly wants a player for. Valencia must be showing more in training.
He was back in training for a couple weeks and then got to play where he injured himself again and is back out. Valencia has also been good this season so there is no need to rush Rafael. The fact is Rafael isn't slaving away at training for weeks while Blind is hoping out of the physio room and straight onto the pitch. He also trained for nearly 3 weeks before playing. Thus, keeping with the philosophy.
You make a fair point on Valencia's individual form. Don't see why LvG doesn't just play him at right back. Sure, he may get occasionally caught out positionally, but he's a pretty diligent player overall and playing a system that the majority of our team are comfortable in would mitigate any discomfort Valencia might feel.
I just think LvG has used his 'lack' of full backs to persist with the 352, which has been rotten in terms of creativity.
That post is, with perhaps the exception of describing Valencia as good (relatively speaking mind you), quite awash with falsehoods. From the number of weeks you say he spent training to the his status of being out injured now.
If the summit of LVG's present ambition is to use solely Valencia down the right flank, well that speaks for itself IMO.
I don't like Valencia either, never have, but he has been quite good lately and there is no denying that. Number of weeks in training for who? Rafael or Blind? Because Blind was in training for 2.5 weeks before playing. For Rafael I said a couple, so 2-3 weeks w.e it is similar to Blind.
Whether van Gaal's ambition is to use Valencia or not isn't really to do with my initial point anyway. van Gaal is being criticized for supposedly favouring Blind because he has come straight back from injury which he hasn't. He trained for 2.5 weeks before playing and van Gaal has said he wasn't meant to play the full 90. Exactly in accordance with his philosophy.
That's what I thought until Rafael and Shaw both started against Yeovil, in a 352.
True.
Perhaps he doesn't trust any combination of our defenders in a four.
It's just a bemusing situation to me. I'd much prefer being more open at the back but carrying a proper attacking threat.
The solution seems so obvious to me - 4231 with Blind and Carrick protecting the back line.
Absolutely. 100% agree. Bugs the shit out of me that Van Gaal evidently feels differently.
I think he's right in persisting with Valencia ahead of Rafael though. He's really getting to grips with his new role and has been very consistent. Rafael's been very hit and miss for one and a half seasons now.
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Yeah, that was usually my thought but then if you're clutching at straws you could say it was only yeovil with both McNair and blackett in so he didn't mind shoe horning them in a 3-5-2... Also young and valencia have been amongst our better and most consistent players to be fair this season.
So far as we can be aware, and this would include the modest 2/3 day period in which he didn't train following the cheekbone injury, Rafael has spent much of the past 6-8 weeks (if not more) absent from the team in spite of fitness.
The Blind comparison doesn't bother me in isolation, what conclusions we might draw regarding the side's formation, do. As does his general policy so far as injured players go, is his philosophy in that area even producing better outcome for the squad?
No he hasn't. He was on the bench on Dec. 20, played on the 26th, 28th, Jan. 1st and 4th when he got injured. Hardly absent from the team for the past 6-8 weeks. Some of those appearances came off the bench but van Gaal simply may prefer Valencia and be rewarding Valencia for his good displays.
Whether his injury philosophy is benefiting the side, I don't know, nobody can really know, but it is besides my point. People are complaining Rafael is being forced to sit out longer after injuries than Blind which simply isn't true. They both had to train for 2-3 weeks before playing, keeping with van Gaal's philosophy. Whether Rafael can't break into the first XI once back has nothing to do with the injury philosophy but to do with van Gaal seeing Valencia as a better choice.
Your case is that of 115 minutes of football, none of it as RB, for a player who began training in third week of November if memory serves. Considering the possible opportunities for game time and starts in that period, "much of the past 6-8 weeks" does indeed sound like a fair description. He could be starting now too, i suspect that Fergie would have done so under the circumstances.
And as for rewarding Valencia, do we do so at the expense of what is best for the team? Simply because Young and or Valencia have had an Indian summer f sorts, albeit the latter to a noticeably lesser degree, doesn't mean that you build a team around them. United surely aims for the best that it can be, not merely...solid.
Christ, man. He's not "building a team round" Valencia. He's picking him ahead of a player who's been worse than him so far this season. It's not even as though this is one of those occasions where we're having to trust the managers judgement about players he's seeing in training when we're not. We're seeing it on the pitch. Valencia's been playing well. Rafael has not.
I'm glad you've backed down on this weird conspiracy theory about Van Gaal treating injured players differently (without manning up and actually saying so) but you're making the selection decision at fullback/wingback far more complicated than it needs to be. Van Gaal has two options and has picked the form player. That's really all there is to it. Rafael did get picked ahead of Valencia earlier in the season (I think?) but he's not been playing well and is further down the pecking order right now. Justifiably so.
I've never made such a claim, neither do i believe it to be so. For as long as Van Gaal continues to prefer the 3-5-2, Valencia will have an edge over Rafael. Many of us would argue against the formation's use in the first place however, in which case the team could benefit from both players.
Apologies. I thought you had come up with the injury stuff @limerickcitykid was debating.
I'm with you on the formation thing. Just not sure that Rafael (on the form of the last season and a half) would be part of our best XI in any formation.
With his "recent" dip in form I started to wonder if Fabio's departure could've been connected with this. 
Great player on his day, but we need someone who is available more than half the season.
I don't think the 3-5-2 is isolated to just protecting our wingbacks. We started that game with McNair and Blackett too who Van Gaal clearly doesn't trust and I honestly think won't be here next season.
I would consider that to be rather harsh treatment, particularly with regard to McNair. And if Van Gaal intends to part company with one or more of the club's elder CBs, he may as well see how they develop over another season.
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I've explained why in other threads but I'll explain my reasons here:
Firstly, I don't think either has ever been particularly highly regarded by the club. I think they were drafted in during an "unexpected" (by Van Gaal anyway) injury crisis where we have had constant simultaniously injuries to Smalling, Jones, Evans and Rojo leaving us severely depleted.
I think as the situation stands, they are both aware that we will not be in that position next season as we will reinforce both the centreback and fullback positions meaning more competition for less spots (2CBs rather than 3CB system).
That means that the contract they will be signing will essentially be one that ties them to the club for the next X years where they will be loaned out. It's unlikely the club will be making any sort of competitive financial offer for two players who they intend to loan when the club stands to get compensated if they leave on a free while they will both get more competitive wage offers from lesser clubs in a more important squad role.
Also, if they did choose to stay here and go on loan for a season or two, by the time they come back to compete for a first team spot they're going to be facing competition from the highly regarded Fosu-Mensah, Taunzebe and/or Borthwick-Jackson.
They've done well this season but I don't think the club owes them any sort of contract for filling in where needed. I think they can be grateful for how much it enhanced their profile and the experience it has given them. I think they will both get Premiership moves to mid table clubs.
So is he fit or injured again. No idea why he didn't start against QPR. Need's to be played into form IMO.
He's got a fractured cheekbone which won't have healed yet and so wasn't risked.
Does it matter? Valencia was starting ahead of him even when Rafael was fit.
I think that's because he didn't look too sharp when he came back from injury, but he should have started against QPR.
When Rafael is all patched up and is deemed fit for duty, I don't see why he can't do well as wingback. First, he's a better defender than Valencia; and second, his attacking play isn't shabby at all. There may not be a lot of daylight between the two overall (Valencia better attacking, Rafael better defending), but I don't see why Rafael should be ruled out as a wingback.
That said, I'd like to rule out the 352/532 altogether when Rafael anad Shaw are both fit and in form.
That said, I'd like to rule out the 352/532 altogether when Rafael anad Shaw are both fit and in form.
Not for the last 1.5 seasons
Nonsense. He's a better defender than Valencia, there's no debate there. Valencia has played well at wingback as he's found a balance between attack and defend that came quite natural to the pragmatic winger he is. As far as defending goes and the right back position Rafael is better.
I don't think I agree and will stick to my "nonsense". Valencia has been very good in his defensive duties this season, even if he's not been great going forward. Rafael might be the better defender overall, but thats definitely not been the case this season. He's been prone to making lapses
This is where the problem lies.
I know it's a little harsh with the current injury since it's a facial one that was unavoidable, but the fact is he will be injured again after a short run of games.
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