I would have liked to see the poll differentiate between fans from the area with lifelong attachment to the club. I would be shocked if the poll would be so in favour of the Qataris then.
Qatar or Ineos - which owners would you prefer? | Vote now Private
- Thread starter Zlatattack
- Start date
Its debt that has to be paid though, its not going to just sit quietly in the background and be allowed to spiral out of control year on year whilst SJR/Ineos pump funds into the clubs infrastructure is it?
If the money doesnt come directly from the club, it will certainly come out of whatever the owners would be willing to spend on the club going forward which again leaves us standing still.
I mean his local boy persona.
If it wasn't for his image being linked, how romantic does it sound?
It would be a petrochemical company, backed by investment bankers.
This will be the situation when he dies.
Its 14 miles from my front door to OT, and I've lived in and around the area all my life.
There have been absolutely no problems with PSG’s women squad (which is better than ours) or with their LGBTQ+ community. We can expect something similar, in that aspect, for United.
I'm 1.2miles from the ground. I voted Qatari .
Debt free.
Investment in teams, ground and surrounding area.
Debt free.
Investment in teams, ground and surrounding area.
Rebuilt!
My view is that it is by far the worst thing we can do.
You are sidestepping the LGTB+ issues.
The women team and the Rainbow Devils have already spoken out against the Qatar bid, with their concerns.
He's talking about giving YOUR money and YOUR support to the club while they do terrible things in THEIR country (Qatar).
PSG fans suffer from the same dilemma, we have a few here who already shed light on the subject of sportswashing.
There is a scenario where Ratcliffe could be willing to pay 200m/year over 30 years to service the debt that he contracted. The issue is how long are the terms of that loan and what happens when Ratcliffe passes away before his 100th birthday?
I do not appreciate the implication of this comment. I agree that match-going fans are special and deserve more of a say in the process but the implication that fans from elsewhere do not share the same lifelong attachment to the club is not appropriate. Furthermore, more substantively on your point that match-going fans might feel differently about Qatar, Gary Neville said that in his poll of roughly 200 people at OT before the game yesterday, 70% wanted the Qataris.
https://www.gurufocus.com/term/Effe...C#:~:text=2022 was $781.7 Mil.,2022 was 4.80%.The reason I showed you a 10 year old report is because that is when the long term loan was agreed.
I hope you understand what long term means. They dont change the interest every year in a long term loan
Also, your words "
there are different kinds of debt, it makes far more sense to take a low interest loan and pay it off long term with the extra revenue, than it does to spend your available cash.
That’s not what the Glazers have done, that is a very different kind of debt for a very different reason. "
I am asking you what is the different kind of debt the Glazers had to Ineos, you said it not me.
That looks like 4.8% to me, but again, not a financial expert.
Jesus Christ. The Glazers took out a loan, to finance the takeover, against the club. The club is liable for the debt. SJR is using Ineos for the loan. The club is not liable. leveraged buyouts are not possible now as far as I am aware. This is also different to potential stadium debt because we would have an asset that generates higher income, used to pay off the debt, without the club being worse off. That obviously didn’t happen with the Glazers debt because even though they grew the asset, they pocket all the income through dividends, instead of paying off the debt.
Whats your view on Saudi Arabia pumping millions upon millions into the club over the years?
Well if he borrows the entirety of 6bn it would take 30 installments of 200m, that's without interests.
They don't make any decisions at the club, are barely visible.
Reposting from elsewhere:
Third option: outside investment.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/manches...e-fund-to-remain-as-man-united-owners-sources
We should not consider Qatar (repressive homophobic scum) and no one seems excited by Ineos either.
Third option: outside investment.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/manches...e-fund-to-remain-as-man-united-owners-sources
We should not consider Qatar (repressive homophobic scum) and no one seems excited by Ineos either.
The money we give to the club will be spend on the club. While possible, it is extremely unlikely that they will take money out of the club.
Exactly.
3 miles from the OT
50+ years invested
Voted Qatari bid with reservations.
Don't like or trust the INEOS bid.
Want what is best for the team.
If there was no team, Manchester United would be irrelevant to me.
50+ years invested
Voted Qatari bid with reservations.
Don't like or trust the INEOS bid.
Want what is best for the team.
If there was no team, Manchester United would be irrelevant to me.
This is a very serious concern. Let's say JR does have the best interests of the club at heart, what happens when he's gone and someone else has to take over? What if they just see the club as a way to make money/not invest in.
Arsenal had something of a reverse, where Stan's son seems far more invested in the team than he was.
They have, and their ask is for any prospective owner to 'commit to making the sport for everyone'; if the Qataris are successful I fully expect them to provide these commitments, and to go on to support and fund the womens team and support LGTBQ+ rights, as Qatar already have at PSG.
Elliot will have higher interest than the banks. From banks like JPMorgan etc, you could probably expect 6% interest right now, so a 5B debt over 20 years would cost around 8.6B or around 430m/year.
It feels like choosing between a woman you can’t afford to divorce, she offers familiarity but is slowly going to bleed you dry (Ineos) or a stunning new girlfriend (Qatar) who gives you a great time, but has a past and could drop you like a hot potato if she finds something new and more interesting.
That’s where my head is at.
That’s where my head is at.
A lot of wasted energy here. Ratcliffe is in it for the money, he will drop out soon now he knows for sure the Qatar bid is real.
How the hell is the club to supposed to pay that off?
Saddened that so many people are in support of Qatar.
For years most fans have been saying they just better owners than the Glaziers, yet when it comes to it people are happy that we sell our soul to the devil.
Under Qatar ownership any success will feel incredibly hollow.
For years most fans have been saying they just better owners than the Glaziers, yet when it comes to it people are happy that we sell our soul to the devil.
Under Qatar ownership any success will feel incredibly hollow.
Right, so on one hand I am told by you wait till the details and on another hand you are telling me how SJR is going to finance it?
So you think that all the income was pocketed? So you actually think Manutd make £11m profit a year? In 10 years they taken 1.2bn dividends, if that is all the profit, its not going to change much is it?
Finally, the details came out that SJR will use banks like Goldman Sacks to clear the debt, nothing on how he will finance the 5bn to buy the club?
INEOS will take on debt to purchase the club, and they will service it. They will also service the current debt. They will also invest into the squad and the infrastructure, despite not owning the entire club. They won't take dividends. INEOS will continue to do all of this even if Ratcliffe is no more, because they will be "proud owners".
Pass me whatever you are having, because this is proper dreamland stuff. Delusional.
Pass me whatever you are having, because this is proper dreamland stuff. Delusional.
0.1 miles from the ground
I went to the first ever Newton Heath match
I have given every penny I've earnt to the club
I had my name legally changed to Manchester Ferguson Busby United Charlton
I voted for Qatar
I went to the first ever Newton Heath match
I have given every penny I've earnt to the club
I had my name legally changed to Manchester Ferguson Busby United Charlton
I voted for Qatar
So you prefer not to have success?
With the Glazers it would cost less since Joel and Avram own a third of the club. With someone else it could cost way more. Ratcliffe can sell some of his assets to finance the purchase faster, from the outside Ratcliffe and the Qatar bids seems to be the least damaging and potentially positive but they all come with big issues.
I’m not sure what exactly constitutes a ‘sugar daddy’, but there’s still risk and jeopardy involved with INEOS ownership as the company can go bust.
There’s effectively none involved with state ownership, outside of boredom or, in this particular case, the prospect of Qatari involvement in some sort of regional war/conflict.
It won’t. It will likely be covered by Ineos, but then they might decide to take some money out of the club. With them owning just 70% of the club, it will also mean that they likely won’t spend their own money in the club (as I explained in some previous post, it does not make sense to put money in the club where a large part of it is owned by other people, in this case it would be the equivalent of buying 70cents for 1 dollar), and they already mentioned that they won’t clear the current debt.
Local fan or whatever, but from what we have seen so far, the Qatar bid looks much better for United.
NB: I think Elliot is just Glazers trying to show that they are not eager to sell. There is also some chance that it might be related to two of the Glazers wanting to (partially) buy the other 3, which is by far the worst case scenario and essentially worse than the original takeover by them. In that case, we will be literally fecked.
If you listen to some here, they won't.
INEOS and JP Morgan always dreamed of giving money away to a football club in London the North West of England.
Why do we need Qatar to be successful? My view is that we don't we just need a better model than we have under the Glaziers.
Yeah it's a very sketchy bid that. Clearly we need more details.