How can someone read about Ineos offer and want that? There is absolutely nothing in that bid to be excited for (except getting rid of Glazers).
Qatar or Ineos - which owners would you prefer? | Vote now Private
- Thread starter Zlatattack
- Start date
I think so. At least it would have changed my vote. His statement doesn't fill me with confidence to say the least.
Snatch!
But surely, you respect their right to have moral values and enact laws that fit their belief system, even though some of them are fundamentally contradictory to yours, right?
And what truth makes me uncomfortable?
It seems you are not comfortable with someone having the view that one should wait for all the facts before making assertions and coming to a conclusion. Because overall thats what I have mainly said with regards to the Qatar bid.
However apparently because that is not my stance and I haven’t jumped on the no this is bad because state ownership then you know my mind. Cool.
Even though I have said also that is probable that funds are from the state. I will make that assertion when the facts are known and not before.
You have then gone on to make false statements about billionaires in Qatar and not provided evidence when asked. We moved past that.
You then attempted to tell me what I meant with regards to respecting morals and values whilst disagreeing with some.
That is all. Have a good day.
It’s funny with INEOS and Nice, because those desperate for ME money want to ignore how successful INEOS sporting ventures have been and concentrate solely on Nice, pretending the whole thing has been some mass clusterfeck.
If you didn’t know better you’d imagine they were regularly finishing bottom half and been owned like Everton
They actually seem to have a very good structure in place now, and as you say, the club value has also increased.
How successful have they been? Ineos Grenadier has been worse than Team Sky. Mercedes have been slightly worse in Formula one but it's marginal, in Football between Lausanne and Nice there is no success to see, Lausanne even got relegated. And I don't know about sailing.
Share the success stories. Sporting success that is.It’s funny with INEOS and Nice, because those desperate for ME money want to ignore how successful INEOS sporting ventures have been and concentrate solely on Nice, pretending the whole thing has been some mass clusterfeck.
If you didn’t know better you’d imagine they were regularly finishing bottom half and been owned like Everton
They actually seem to have a very good structure in place now, and as you say, the club value has also increased.
I think we both know the uncomfortable truth you keep denying is that this is in every meaningful sense state ownership.
Ive not denied it. But keep lying
There's probably well over 500 pages on the Qataris over several threads and noone has mentioned Hitler so far.
Cant believe its even a debate whether a “private investor group” from Qatar is the same as state ownership. Its a dictatorship so of course it is. Formally it isnt of course.
You denied it in your first ever reply to me. It's there for everyone to see.
You can respect rights without respecting the outcome of those rights.
You have the right to sleep with which ever consenting adult you want to, I don't respect Giggs' choice to sleep with his brothers wife and I wouldn't hire him to manage United because of it.
My one go at this and this is my personal view. It's probably too simplistic for the modern world
Man United debt 2005 pre-Glazer: 0
Man United debt 2023 including transfer debt: approaching 1bn.
In a world where driving a diesel car is now considered heretic and affecting someone human rights. Indoctrination is rife in many forms within our society pushing this or that agenda I am sick to the back teeth. I want to support my team and switch off, however briefly, to the other disasters happening daily in the world. Sport should be one of the few things bringing us more together in a world that is getting more divisive by the hour.
I want to watch my team in a great stadium playing great football. If that is money from the Gulf, then so be it. If that attracts inward investment, building projects,job security etc in Manchester then take the money and run, I say. If Qatari gas can keep my house warm then they can buy a football team.
What I don't want, is to be sitting here in 5 years with 1.5b debt and Ten Hag being clapped into a meeting where he is handed a 50m budget for a summer spending spree and on a forum someone is stating "In Hindsight ...... "
Man United debt 2005 pre-Glazer: 0
Man United debt 2023 including transfer debt: approaching 1bn.
In a world where driving a diesel car is now considered heretic and affecting someone human rights. Indoctrination is rife in many forms within our society pushing this or that agenda I am sick to the back teeth. I want to support my team and switch off, however briefly, to the other disasters happening daily in the world. Sport should be one of the few things bringing us more together in a world that is getting more divisive by the hour.
I want to watch my team in a great stadium playing great football. If that is money from the Gulf, then so be it. If that attracts inward investment, building projects,job security etc in Manchester then take the money and run, I say. If Qatari gas can keep my house warm then they can buy a football team.
What I don't want, is to be sitting here in 5 years with 1.5b debt and Ten Hag being clapped into a meeting where he is handed a 50m budget for a summer spending spree and on a forum someone is stating "In Hindsight ...... "
What was so successful about Nice?It’s funny with INEOS and Nice, because those desperate for ME money want to ignore how successful INEOS sporting ventures have been and concentrate solely on Nice, pretending the whole thing has been some mass clusterfeck.
If you didn’t know better you’d imagine they were regularly finishing bottom half and been owned like Everton
They actually seem to have a very good structure in place now, and as you say, the club value has also increased.
There is a false assumption that the extra £1.6 billion would be spent on those things and not just pocketed by the owners. Most football clubs have debt (I read somewhere all but 4 in Europe are debt free). Perhaps you don't want debt at the level of the Glazers, but debt isn't some trojan horse that can't be managed
This obsession with spending even more in the transfer market than the club has already spent completely ignores what I said earlier - the manager has been the difference maker, not the money. United spent £1.5 billion on transfers in the last 10 years. How much more is needed?
It just feels weird and empty advocating for a club to have a money cheat code when they have already spent a ton, state-owned or not.
Why wouldn't they financially dope if they bought the club? Seems like wishful thinking.
Almost all football clubs have debt. You honestly think the Qatari's will wipe away all the debt and just let the club run itself? What is the precedent for that?
Nothing I said should trigger this reaction. Weird response.
As you said the problem is the size of the debt but also the nature of the debt. Most clubs would have accrued their debt investing in the club infrastructure not buying itself for broke owners. Glazer debt is a super liability because it came into existence without revenue generating payoff potential.
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The Simon Stone article doesn’t really have much, does it? I don’t get the sense he’s got news that the Glazer’s might stay, just that he knows Raine have told bidders not to make ‘critical’ statements about the Glazers, which is probably to be expected in corporate America (even though there’s not actually a problem with implying the Glazers haven’t been good for United).
There are a lot of people living in fantasy land. I do wonder if some think they have £5 billion laying around in a bank vault or if it's just plain willful ignorance.
Any entity that chooses to rely on help from hedge funds or from borrowing money from banks can go feck itself. I have enough of that Wall Street-like shite after nearly 2 decades, and Wall Street is full of leeches.
Nothing
Incorrect again
I'd err on the side of Ratcliffe, now dubbed Bumcliffe. There is no obvious favourite here, plenty of bad ones. From the reported bids, American investors supporting the current ownership would be the least palatable.
I have businesses paying 2.9% on loans from the last few years, so I fully understand Ineos would rather borrow cheap and keep their capital generating greater returns.
That said, our current loan of ~500: is from when the Glazers bought us for 800:. We are talking 5,000: here, plus another for OT. Even if they buy 70% that's 4,500: at, say, 4.5% (generously using "risk-free" Fed target rate) we would have to pay 2-3x as much in interest payments as we used to.
Where is the upside from that? Yeah, I know it's theoretically Ineos debt, but ultimately it is the club that has to generate returns to service that and it has struggled with a fraction of that.
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If the WSJ cannot get the scoop, Simon Stone certainly won't. It seems everyone at the club, from CEO to players, is in the dark.
I am shocked at how much plastic we have in our own ranks. Qatar? Should we accept that dictators buy the club in exchange for sporting success?
The buyers from Qatar represent the opposite of what football and Manchester United are all about.
We have a fantastic season this year, it's fun to see the development, it's exciting to see how ETH has turned everything around. We fight against teams like Mansour's (formerly City) and do not do badly at all. If we win titles this year, we know it will be despite the fact that the Glazers have sucked money out of the club, not because some dictator decides to play football club.
The soul of the club disappears with dictator owners, please never let that happen.
We should never respect a dictator as an owner. The fans should curse this owner's name every single game!
The buyers from Qatar represent the opposite of what football and Manchester United are all about.
We have a fantastic season this year, it's fun to see the development, it's exciting to see how ETH has turned everything around. We fight against teams like Mansour's (formerly City) and do not do badly at all. If we win titles this year, we know it will be despite the fact that the Glazers have sucked money out of the club, not because some dictator decides to play football club.
The soul of the club disappears with dictator owners, please never let that happen.
We should never respect a dictator as an owner. The fans should curse this owner's name every single game!
Tried to Google it/ what is it they proposed?
It's a matter of public record I'm afraid
I'm not sure what you mean by financial doping?
Our problem post Fergie hasn't been lack of money for transfers or player salaries. The club makes plenty of money but is poorly run and Old Trafford is falling apart.
There wouldn't be a need to throw unearned money at us. Especially now that things finally are shaping up.
But my point is still that potential financial doping isn't the main reason for why I and others don't want Qatari ownership.
It's not. That's not how any of Ineos' other sporting ventures have worked. They've been Ratcliffe using Ineos money to buy himself toys.
redo the poll titles
1) billions of debt
2) billions in the bank
1) billions of debt
2) billions in the bank
He owns 60% anyone know who the others are?
Possibly but also quite a lot of posters are not getting involved in the discussions. Perhaps it's because we have very little info on the bids or because we've no way of influencing who comes in anyway.
999 votes are in. Who’s the lucky 1000th.
Right on cue! Congrats fellow anonymous.
Yeh but has he hinted about a new stadium and Mbappe?
If not, it's probably the reason nobody wants him as owner.