Put a price on how much it would cost us to genuinely compete for the title

I honestly think we are £500-600m off challenging.

That includes the cost of new training facilities to ensure we get the best out of our players (£150-200m - Cities cost £150m) and a good 300 - 400m on a squad revamp. That is selling anyone not up to the standard and replacing with better players.

That's a 2-3 season project and if you want to maintain that level - we need a new stadium too and our debts cleared so our commercial income increases and we are not pushing FFP rules to the edge.
 
If it was only about spending, All the money we spent over the last 6-8 seasons should have had this club consistently challenge.

However countless millions spent terribly leaves us nearly the same place we have been since Fergie left.

Hopefully under Ten Hag and new ownership the quality of the purchases improve, as well as the club’s football recruitment and development.
 
Someone willing to pay a 10 million bonus per week to any team that defeats City in the EPL. just kidding..

Realistically, it would take 2-3 seasons of 150million transfer windows.. need at least 6-7 really good players that will start or can rotate/come off the bench. Too many games in multiple competitions for us to compete with the lack of depth we have compared to them.
 
Judging by how Chelsea is doing 1.2bn quid. If we don't waste the money, £300M should freshen up the squad quite a bit.
 
It isnt about a certai cost, Chelsea have spet a fortue and gone further behind, PSG have spet fortunes and still got o closer to the champions league than years ago and lets not forget our net spend is massive and we have barely progressed from a good season to the next.

Ourst first eleven is maybe four players short and back up wise in the squad another 3/4players short but buying Rice, Belligham, Kane, Omishen....doesnt guarantee success.

We have from early signs the right manager but its about getting the right players ad balance....for me purely squad wise we have failed i three key areas:

1) Moving on players. Held o to many too log and failed to bring in decet revenues for the majority that have left, Dan James been the only decent one in years. We let 3/4 go for peanuts each summer bar last (only due to contracts of players again we held on for too long) when we should be getting rid of players in double figures....and guess what despite these cotracts running down ad a couple more this summer.....there are still over 10players we should be selling and I doubt we sell five of them, we loan a couple and keep hold of a few more should be off

2) We are not buying in enough players. Agai we are in the same positio where we really need 5-8players, we probably sign four

3) We are generally over spending on certain players.....and this also means we end up in the same window making a make weight signings, or even worse last ditch loan signings this season. Just look at the striker situation Falcao, Ibrahimovic, Cavani.....all short termr siginings as good as the were and now all the talk is spending near £100m on a 30year old with a year left on his contract, crazy....and now eyar linked, coudl be hogwash but "o brainer, loan".....if we are payin ghis wages thats spending ear £50m on a 31year old over a season.

Lukaku, Antony, Sancho.......1/4 of a billion pounds, pure madness

I really think cost wise, we should be raising £150m+ from sales this summer from a lot of players movning on and we can sign seven players and still finish with a net spend of around £150m........a far smaller net spend than last summer. And it doesnt have to involve huge signigs like Kane, or good journeyman free signigs aroud 30 or older, there are several of players established and at the right age or breaking through at probably relegated clubs in our own league and a whole plethora of good ones on the contient....I feel the only problem position that may need big expenditure is striker, but second choice keeper, first choice RB, second choice CB, seonc choice DM, first choice CM.....none of these positions require transfers over £50m and several a mere fraction of that......none of this guarantees success and any side from any era struggles to topple CIty currently, we are a log way behind, there is a lot of work and deals to do.....but we need to do more ins and outs and sig more of the right profile of player, we have maybe made five of those signings in several seasons, huge summer doesnt have to be ahuge net spend
 
At the end of last season, we all had our wish lists, and Ten Hag came in and made lots of signings that we were not expecting. On the whole, his signings were a big success. We have a solid back 4. And a half decent midfield.

I'm gonna leave it up to Ten Hag and his team to go and get who they want, instead of spaffing off on here about Declan Rice and Harry Kane.
 
The title next season is a pipe dream. We need to get over the line against Chelsea and next season aim to get over that top 4 line even sooner and try and close the gap a little.

We aren't going to challenge City next season. Would take something rather ridiculous for that to happen.
 
Mwooyo said:
150m that's all that's needed. It's not about how much we spend but if we spend it on the right players.

Alan varela (15m)
Enzo le fee (20m)
Rasmus Hojlund (35m)
Jurriens timber/Axel disasi (30m)
Robert Sanchez - GK (is being benched by Steele and will be cheaper than raya. 20 to 30m)

Get rid of Maguire, Mctominay, martial. Don't renew de gea. Bring back Amad.
Click to expand...

This will for sure get us a top 10. What a load of crap this is. Le Fee isnt even in French national team and wont be either. Varela is a poor mans Enzo Fernandez. Sanchez is a bottler in important games..

This reeks football manager
 
There is no specific level you need to reach to challenge for the title. It's all about the competition and it's very difficult to judge how good the competition will be every season. Look at Liverpool, from being close to a quadruple, they are 5th. Chelsea were in mid table the season after winning the league in the mid '10s. If we rate teams out of 10 for the sake of argument, being 8/10 was enough to challenge and maybe even win you the league from around 2010 (post Ronaldo) to 2017 (pre Guardiola and Klopp). Leicester and average City and Chelsea sides won it only to be humiliated in Europe. Over the last few years, the bar has been raised and 8/10 won't do as is the case this season for Arsenal. I'd rate us now at around 7 so if City continue on the same pace they set this past few years, nothing really we can do about it as improving from a 7 to a 9 or maybe even a 10 is just not done in one season no matter what you do. But I'd be very surprised if they keep the same pace so the question is by how much they will regress, hopefully.
 
Going to cost a lot less than some here are predicting. Firstly need to become a well run club again and getting rid of the Glazers and their business men buddies who rule over transfers and player contracts is step number 1. Competent people replacing them who's focus and ambition matching Ten Hag will equal success.
 
Laurencio said:
Judging by how Chelsea is doing 1.2bn quid. If we don't waste the money, £300M should freshen up the squad quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Chelsea spent half a billion to get worse. Judging by them, if we spent 1.2bn, we'd be relegated. :lol:
 
Woziak said:
Think we could get smart in this transfer window we need to generally improve squad depth as well as first 11 and maybe just maybe if everything goes well we might be able to add 3 players in the winter window. The issue with this season is the number of games we’ve played, a mid season World Cup and how tired our players are because they squad depth is so poor plus the high level of injuries we’ve had.

We need to make 3 or 4 top level transfer in summer, 3 free transfers and 1 or 2 young emerging players that are relatively cheap. I think we will have £180m maximum to spend after player sales, loans and releases;

Player Sales ; H Maguire, E Bailey, A Telles, E Laird, Fred, B Williams, A Martial, DVB, A Elanga max £80m for all those players.

Loans ; M Greenwood, F Pellistri, A Fernandes,

Key Signings ; D Raya (30m) KMJ(45m), R Hojlund(55m) L Sane, K Coman or O Dembele (50m)
Total £180m

Free Signings ; Y Tielemans, A Rabiot and M Thurham

We need squad depth and we need players who want to compete to get in starting 11 we won’t get Kane and Osimhen will blow the budget and we need a genuine speedster like Sane, Dembele or K Coman to give us a true threat down the right and Sancho should be trained as number 10 and compete with Bruno.

In January when Henderson is fit from injury, Greenwood value has gone up on his loan and Mctominay can’t get regular football we should sell all 3 for hopefully £70-75m, loan out Amad to mid table PL team and then go get the following

Winter Window; Harry Kane £50m, Moses Caciedo £85m J Frimpong or D Dumfries £35m net spend £120m
Two of the most talented youngsters in South America for £20m , one number 10, one attacking young left back

Summer Squad after transfer ;
GK (4) - D Raya, D De Gea, T Heaton,
D Henderson (InJured)

Defenders(9) - D Dalot, AWB, T Malacia, L Shaw, KMJ, V Lindelof, R Varanne, L Martinez, T Mengdi

Midfield(7) - Casemeiro, Eriksen, Bruno, A Rabiot, S Mctominay, Y Tielemans, J Sancho

Attack(7) - M Rashford, R Hojlund, O Dembele, Garnaucho, M Thurham, Antony
Amad Diallo

Our first 11 after summer ; D Raya, D Dalot, R Varane, KMJ, L Shaw, Casemeiro, A Rabiot , Bruno, Dembele, Hojlund, Rashford

Bench - De Gea, AWB, Lindelof, C Ericsen , Tielemans, Sancho, Antony, Thurman, Garnaucho

Our first 11 after winter transfer- D Raya, DumFries, KMJ, L Martinez, L Shaw, Casemeiro, Caciedo, Bruno, Dembele, Kane, Rashford

Bemch - De Gea, AWB, R Varane, A Rabiot, Ericsen, Hojlund, M Thurham, Garnaucho, Y Tielemans

One of Sancho and Antony might be sold by then too and the squad will carry injuries so we will have probably only 23 from 27 players and a young talent like Shay Lacey may emerge at 17/18 by winter. We only challenge if we start well in the season we would need 44-46 points from 20 PL games before New Year which means 14/15 PL wins. This squad has goals, pace, experience, solid defence and creativity but you only play if your in form and fit.

Long answer we need £300m, over two windows and an awful lot of luck to get the right signings and a good start.

Most important Factor however is. Glazers Need To F….OFF ASAP
Click to expand...

Would be staggered IF Caicedo or Kane are still on the market in January. I also feel Rabiot could be the only free signing in the summer (like Eriksen last year) but could end up being proved totally wrong.

Dembele/Coman/Sane are all interesting wide options who are upgrades but I do wonder are we even looking to bring one in.
 
Fortitude said:
Per the title, let's assume we're purchased and the new owners are deadly serious about having us compete for the league next season (yes, yes: transactions mightn't go through this summer in the real world, and also FFP, but for this hypothetical, we have a normal summer window), and they fully intend to buy out deadwood and their contracts to free up places in the squad.

How much do you think it would cost, all-in, from a team and squad basis, for us to challenge for the title?
Click to expand...

half a billion at least.. if you want to do it in one transfer window.
 
i reckon about 10k would be enough. it’s not enough to change my life, but allows for a guilt free holiday with the kids and i’d be happy to watch us compete next year.
 
It depends how well we spend the money. If we spend as we have in the last decade, we could probably chuck close to £1bn at it and still manage to mess it up. We need 6 or 7 high quality players to get there, if all of them are established you're probably looking at close to £500m.
 
Compete for the title, probably 400-450M

Maignan 80M
Kim 60M
De Jong 120M
Ndidi 30M
Maddison 40M
Kane 100M

---------------------------------------Maignan--------------------------------------
Wan Bissaka----------Kim-----------------Martinez----------------Shaw
----------------------------Casemiro----------De Jong-------------------------
Antony-------------------------------Bruno-----------------------------Rashford
-------------------------------------------Kane------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------Martial----------------------------------------
Garnacho--------------------------Maddison--------------------------Sancho
---------------------------------Ndidi--------------Eriksen---------------------------
Malacia-------------------Lindelof----------Varane--------------------Dalot
-------------------------------------------De Gea---------------------------------------
 
I don't think we're as far off as people make out.

*IN*
Kane (ST) - 80Million
Rice (Cm) - 100Million
GK - 50Million
Kim (CB) - 40million

Total = Approx 270Million

*OUT*
Maguire - 30million
Fred or Mctom = 20million
Bailly - 10Million
Telles - 5Million
Brandon Williams - 5million
DVB - 15million
Tuanzebe / Weghorst / Sabitzer / Jones - released

Total = Approx 85Million

Net spend would be around 200 million, and the improvement would be huge.
 
Chaky_Best said:
Compete for the title, probably 400-450M

Maignan 80M
Kim 60M
De Jong 120M
Ndidi 30M
Maddison 40M
Kane 100M

---------------------------------------Maignan--------------------------------------
Wan Bissaka----------Kim-----------------Martinez----------------Shaw
----------------------------Casemiro----------De Jong-------------------------
Antony-------------------------------Bruno-----------------------------Rashford
-------------------------------------------Kane------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------Martial----------------------------------------
Garnacho--------------------------Maddison--------------------------Sancho
---------------------------------Ndidi--------------Eriksen---------------------------
Malacia-------------------Lindelof----------Varane--------------------Dalot
-------------------------------------------De Gea---------------------------------------
Click to expand...

De Jong doesn't want to leave Barcelona, why are we still so hung up on him ???
 
Hughes35 said:
I don't think we're as far off as people make out.

*IN*
Kane (ST) - 80Million
Rice (Cm) - 100Million
GK - 50Million
Kim (CB) - 40million

Total = Approx 270Million

*OUT*
Maguire - 30million
Fred or Mctom = 20million
Bailly - 10Million
Telles - 5Million
Brandon Williams - 5million
DVB - 15million
Tuanzebe / Weghorst / Sabitzer / Jones - released

Total = Approx 85Million

Net spend would be around 200 million, and the improvement would be huge.
Click to expand...

Rumored RIce is going to Arsenal.
 
We have got to get Caciedo in from Brighton - £70mill. He's twice the player Rice is and he's younger. Kim from Napoli sounds done for £40m. Amad back - FOC. Greenwood - FOC. Strikers (take your pick) - £100m.
Then we offload Hendo £30m / Maguire £40m / Martial £25m / Mct or Fred £30m / Elanga £5m / Wout FOC / Bailey £5m.
If we do that we should be at least nailed on for top 4 again.
Plus ETH has probably got a bolter up his sleeve - a midfielder we havent heard of etc.
Looking forward to the transfer window - Caciedo please!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Andersonson said:
This will for sure get us a top 10. What a load of crap this is. Le Fee isnt even in French national team and wont be either. Varela is a poor mans Enzo Fernandez. Sanchez is a bottler in important games..

This reeks football manager
Click to expand...

Biggest problem I see here is you think quality is attached to the price of the player. Was Ronaldo in the national team by the time we signed him...how about evra, ok how about carrick or nani...etc. How has national team status ever mattered when signing a player. I don't know where you got this criteria from. Furthermore, How is bottler in important games even measured. People say Bruno always goes missing in our big games, doesn't mean he isn't a quality player for us. Fred and Mctominay are said to step up in big games, they are still lousy players. Somehow you have invented your new criteria for measuring player performance in your head which is a new level of crazy
 
I honestly don't believe it's money. As others have said it's about who we get in. For example getting in thuram, rabiot, ndicka, dembele would be free this summer. They may work, they may not, but there are players that would immediately make us better, if not by getting straight into the 11 then by pushing the current first team on.
 
I honestly don't believe it will cost more than 200 million. We are shite in the market mainly because Ed Woodward, Richard Arnold etc go out thinking it is a business transaction when it is quite the opposite. I believe it is that way because of the massive debt we have in the club. The players are to be an asset and they instead keep them and then sell them off if they have not played well, that is one of the fundamental reasons why the players never up their game when they know the club won't sell them off. The amount of time we have allowed players to fulfil their contract and them knowing that they will not be earning remotely close ever to any other club.

We can see this in Newcastle, the players' mindset change when knowing that if they do not perform they will be shipped off. As much as ETH can motivate the players it is fundamentally down to the player to know that their job at Manchester United can be gone if they do not perform just like any other company where a person does not perform they will be removed from the company. Why else do you think when players leave Manchester United and somehow revive their careers? I read is because the manager was the reason but really it is the club's ethos of being run as a business.
 
We need about 5/6 players for team, and also some additions to squad whether they come from youths or young players brough in.
Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool and Newcastle will add more players to their teams this summer also, so we need a good squad to compete.
I don't think we can do it in one transfer window, but maybe 2/3. It will cost 7/8 hundred Million imo.
 
I really think we're looking at upwards of £500mm of spending if the question is how much to trigger a title challenge.

Selling clubs would know, so it would be expensive, we'd need world class players in 4 areas and absolutely class players ready to take over, a title challenge is relentless in how we would have to push and make competition crack.

I'd like to think we could be very smart in scouting but that's not been a great feature in recent years but ideally we'd source some academy talent as well but it's just not going to happen without a massive commitment.

And most of all we'd have to trust the board to give the manager freedom and not cut off funding at £250mm only to give it to someone else to start again.
 
It is not always about how much you are prepared to spend.
It is much more about how you spend it and the value you get for it.
Other teams like Brighton for example must have a significantly better recruitment set up and are much more advanced in the use of data.
I mean just look at Sancho and Antony. Loads has already been written about them.
But why have we had to find out about Sancho mentality after spending a fortune.
And while Antony may well come good, can you imagine Pep spending so much money on a player who is so one footed.

No. If United are to be able to seriously challenge, we need a significantly better squad of much more technically capable players.
They are definitely out there because other teams are able to find them.
As well as that, we need to have a stronger Academy such that we are able to sell on players we don't need as a revenue stream.
When was the last time we sold a player that came through for good money.
 
Hackman2210 said:
We have got to get Caciedo in from Brighton - £70mill. He's twice the player Rice is and he's younger. Kim from Napoli sounds done for £40m. Amad back - FOC. Greenwood - FOC. Strikers (take your pick) - £100m.
Then we offload Hendo £30m / Maguire £40m / Martial £25m / Mct or Fred £30m / Elanga £5m / Wout FOC / Bailey £5m.
If we do that we should be at least nailed on for top 4 again.
Plus ETH has probably got a bolter up his sleeve - a midfielder we havent heard of etc.
Looking forward to the transfer window - Caciedo please!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I think your outgoing values for Maguire and Martial are crazy.

I think we'll be lucky to get 25 million for Maguire and 10-15 million for Martial.

What makes you think that Maguire and Kim Min-jae are worth the same amount? And if they're on equal footing, why does every United fan on the planet desperately want Maguire out?
 
For those who think that if we spend £200M we could win the league - you are completely deluded.
We've spent 5x that in the last few years and a distant 2nd place is all we could muster.
For an actual league title, we need to spend on the right players and it will likely be above £500M.
 
sunama said:
For those who think that if we spend £200M we could win the league - you are completely deluded.
We've spent 5x that in the last few years and a distant 2nd place is all we could muster.
For an actual league title, we need to spend on the right players and it will likely be above £500M.
Click to expand...
That's a bit of a moot point because we spent the money on shit players.

For the sake of this thread we obviously have to assume the players we sign in this hypothetical scenario deliver what would be expected of them based on their quality they've shown previously.

Let's say we finish on 75 points this season.

Let's say we need 90 points to "challenge" for a league title, and sometimes you'll win it if City have an off season but maybe most of the time you fall short, but you still challenged because you ran them close.

How many players would we need to squeeze an extra 15 points out of this side? How many points would an elite striker, elite midfielder and elite goalkeeper have been worth this season? I don't think it's outlandish to suggest they'd have been worth 15 points. Especially the striker given we've barely had a premier league level striker this season, a competent striker would have been worth a lot of points, a world class one would have been even more.

So in that sense, £200m on 3 players isn't an absurd claim to get close to a title. Obviously that depends on us not wasting the money on flops like we usually do.

If you can supplement those 3 signings with shrewd freebies/cheaper signings to add to squad depth, and raising money from squad sales to replace them with upgrades them maybe you can be in a position where you have a genuine chance.

That's the positive spin on it. The negative spin on it is this team still can't retain possession of a football, so it needs some serious surgery to bring the technical quality up to an acceptable level where we could realistically compete with City. And that surgery probably takes several windows.
 
This is obviously riddled with guesswork and weak assumptions, but going on which areas of the team clearly need upgrading relative to that standard;

Two new goalkeepers - at least 75m, minus maybe 25 received for Henderson = 50m
A CB - hopefully a wash with whatever we can get for Maguire and Bailly
RB - 45m
A top #8, and a good young #6 - 140m, minus 50m or so from selling McTominay and Donny = 90m
Two good strikers/attackers - let's say 160m, minus maybe 25 received for Martial= 135m

So, a bit more than 300m. By the time we've spent that, we'll need to start looking for replacements for the likes of Eriksen, Casemiro and maybe Varane. Serious title challenge in 3-4 seasons, if all goes reasonably well? Or maybe we'll just get lucky, who knows.
 
Todd said:
I think your outgoing values for Maguire and Martial are crazy.

I think we'll be lucky to get 25 million for Maguire and 10-15 million for Martial.

What makes you think that Maguire and Kim Min-jae are worth the same amount? And if they're on equal footing, why does every United fan on the planet desperately want Maguire out?
Click to expand...

Maguire is English - hence a premium. And he’s PL proven. £40m is a good price for someone like him. Martial well who cares just give him away I’m not bothered. Key for me is Caiceido - he is the one.
 
Hackman2210 said:
Maguire is English - hence a premium. And he’s PL proven. £40m is a good price for someone like him. Martial well who cares just give him away I’m not bothered. Key for me is Caiceido - he is the one.
Click to expand...

I tend to think in similar terms as you on Maguire's speculative valuation, but it's really quite hard to assess. The question is, what's his market? I doubt he'll be wanting to leave United to play for a lower-tier PL club, and certainly not to continue warming the bench somewhere else. Maybe he'd consider a mid-tier club, like Villa or West Ham or maybe even Wolves, but does he match what they need from a regular starter? He is clearly most at home in a deep-lying, 3-man line - and there aren't many of those among the top half of PL clubs. If he does find a fit, then I see no reason why he shouldn't command a fee in the area of 40m, or more. You don't get quality starters for a decent PL side for less than that, generally.

If the market is more in the area of 20m, that means interested clubs either don't see him as a key piece, or are small clubs who probably lack the prestige and wage structure to be attractive options for Maguire. In that case, it's hard to see why he'd agree to leave.

I think it's also difficult to envisage a move to a different league. For reasons both financial and stylistic.

Wildcard option: How about a return to his hometown, to captain Sheffield United? Haven't watched them in the Championship, but at least they used to play 3 at the back. He'd be perfect for that sort of game.
 
justsomebloke said:
I tend to think in similar terms as you on Maguire's speculative valuation, but it's really quite hard to assess. The question is, what's his market? I doubt he'll be wanting to leave United to play for a lower-tier PL club, and certainly not to continue warming the bench somewhere else. Maybe he'd consider a mid-tier club, like Villa or West Ham or maybe even Wolves, but does he match what they need from a regular starter? He is clearly most at home in a deep-lying, 3-man line - and there aren't many of those among the top half of PL clubs. If he does find a fit, then I see no reason why he shouldn't command a fee in the area of 40m, or more. You don't get quality starters for a decent PL side for less than that, generally.

If the market is more in the area of 20m, that means interested clubs either don't see him as a key piece, or are small clubs who probably lack the prestige and wage structure to be attractive options for Maguire. In that case, it's hard to see why he'd agree to leave.

I think it's also difficult to envisage a move to a different league. For reasons both financial and stylistic.

Wildcard option: How about a return to his hometown, to captain Sheffield United? Haven't watched them in the Championship, but at least they used to play 3 at the back. He'd be perfect for that sort of game.
Click to expand...

I can see him at Villa or West Ham for £40m. He's worth that easily. What does £20m get you these days - some guy no one has ever heard off from ligue 1. Maguire really isnt as bad as some of us think. Hes a man with no confidence he can be rebuilt. I would put money on it that he has a MOTM performance against us over the next few seasons.
 
Kane: £90m
Caicedo: £70m
Min-Jae: £50m
Goalkeeper: £30m

Amad back in the squad.

Maybe someone experienced / cheap to rotate like... Mane?

£240m.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.