Put a price on how much it would cost us to genuinely compete for the title

[Abraxas]

I'm not sure it's easy or even works to put a figure on it because of what winning the league entails. You have to anticipate that you need to win nearly every single game. The room for messing up is tiny.

To do that you probably need a squad that all understand their roles and system perfectly. It will be difficult to expect the relentless consistency City have just because you've bought brilliant players. They've got that but they've also got a squad the manager has worked with over a long period which they refresh each year in some positions.

However if I was to play the game I would say that 300 million would have a right good go at addressing our obvious weaknesses. Striker, couple midfielders, a CB, RB, keeper. If we assume they all work perfectly and all hit the ground running which generally would be unlikely, I could see us substantially improving our points haul.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

350m over 4 years of great coaching.

 

[Theonas]

Because the financial dopers have completely changed the landscape, you need to spend enough to buy you two teams of 50m+ players in every position to compete with what they’ve got.

Bearing in mind you’ll have a failure rate of approx 20-50% depending on how good or bad your scouting is, you then will need to be allowing for a significant waste budget on top.

So you might get lucky and compete in a title challenge by dint of the dopers having an off-season which they do once every 3-4 years but it won’t last the season after because they’ll simply spend another cool £200m of the sheikh’s pocket money to re-establish their dominance.

If we take City's starting 11 vs Real Madrid as their first team, here is their second team:

Ederson - Ortega: free transfer from a yoyo club in the Bundesliga
Walker - Aké: Chelsea reject and playing for relegation candidates Bournemouth
Dias - Laporte: top talent and big buy
Akanji - Gomez: from Anderlecht for 13m
Stones - Lewis: from academy
Rodri - Phillips: big buy of almost 50m but hardly a top talent, yet at least.
Silva - Mahrez: top talent and big buy
Gündogan - Palmer: from academy
De Bruyne - ?:
Grealish - Foden: from academy
Haaland - Alvarez: cost14m

Could you please explain how is this a squad that is made of two 50m signings in every position?

 

[AndersB]

Don't think we will win the title in the next 3-4 years tbh.

If Pep walks away and we get our act together on and off the pitch then maybe there's a chance. City probably just go and get the next best thing after Pep though. They don't mess about.

I hear Pep has been told he's allowed to pick his successor, and will go for Lopetegui

 

[Lee565]

Zidane as manager who has proven at the very least that he can deliver when given a side full of great players and if money is not an object you can then give him a great 11 to work with

 

[Theonas]

We were in a similar situation in 2007 albeit Chelsea were not as consistency good as we're up against now but it's the closest example. They steamrolled the league with big margins and broke some records on the way. Their perceived area of weakness was an underwhelming Drogba at the time who they went out and upgraded with one of the most lethal strikers in the planet at the time in Shevchenko. Our response? We lost RvN and Keane and replaced them with Saha and Carrick. The rest is history of course. Not saying that's the way to do it, my point is simply that there is no formula for this sort of thing with too many variables from both sides.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Ignoring ffp we would need to sign the best players in the world that aren't at city and that is a function of offering stupid wages as much as transfer fees. Like how much would mbappe play for us for if he is on 1m at psg, 2m a week ?

 

[Infra-red]

Arsenal have competed for the title this year, despite having a squad that cost a fraction of our own. You can't really put a price on it, because ultimately, having lots of money to spend on players is a necessary but not sufficient condition for challenging for the title.

 

[AlPistacho]

Let's genuinely give this a try:

So, to actually compete for the title against City (not just fighting to stay top 4) we would need the following in my opinion:

Striker - £100m
Backup striker - £30m
Midfielder who can play #6 and is versatile - £60m
Good right winger to compete with Antony
Right back - £40m
Centre back (backup or alternate) - £40m
Goalkeeper - £50m
And possibly a backup left back -£25m

We can't just have Antony as our right wing options and play Bruno out of position there. I don't think Amad will be good enough. I think the above numbers would be roughly right.

We can offer this by selling a few players:

McTom - £20m
Martial -£15m
Maguire - £25m
Sancho -£25m
De Gea? - £25m
Amad - £20m

All in all, I think £200m of GOOD spending and we could be looking to challenge. I don't think we'd win it but we could be fighting it out until the last part of the season.

If we were to get someone like Osimhen or Kolo Muani for the striker then we might be in with a fighting chance but we would need Antony to figure out how to pass and not just do the same shot every time, Rashford would need to replicate his purple patch from this season etc.

If Amad wasn’t on loan at Sunderland.. they’d be selling him to a top 6 club this summer for £50m plus.

 

[eire-red]

Somewhere between 300-400m to get 3/4 proper world class players in key positions - GK, CM, CB, CF.

Easily 300m plus in today's market.

 

[wolvored]

To challenge we need better players than we have so a fortune is needed. I reckon a WC experienced forward and an up and coming forward as backup would cost at least 140 mill. A WC box to box midfielder at least 80 mill. A WC goalie another 60 mill. This is the minimum requirement IThink. 280 mill minimum spend

 

[7even]

This is doable
GK - Diogo Costa (£50m)
CB - Kim Min Jae (£35m)
DM/CM/RB - Moises Caicedo (£90m)
CM - Adrien Rabiot (Free)
ST - Victor Osimhen (£100m)

Total gross ca £275m

To have a chance to challenge City
Above +
Alexis Mac Allister (£70 m)
Mason G
Out
Maguire
Bailly
Telles
Tuanzebe
DvdB
MacT
Fred
Sabitzer
Wout Weghorst
Elanga
Pellestri
Sancho (to fragile)

 

[Kag]

Whatever the cost of a decent goalkeeper, a right back, a midfielder and a genuinely good striker is.

A lot, basically.

 

[theballisround]

6billion and the Arabs.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Pep retirement fund plus £200m.

 

[CaseHero]

It's hard if yet unfair to estimate how much it will cost due to the "Utd Tax"
It is also useless to compare our layout to city's due to their illegal methods.

 

[glasgow 21]

It's hard if yet unfair to estimate how much it will cost due to the "Utd Tax"
It is also useless to compare our layout to city's due to their illegal methods.

Well if the stories were true we could have had Enzo and Alvarez for less than 40m the pair (Rangnick) Haaland for 4m (Ole) and Caicedo for 4.5m ( himself states) and Utd supporter. So we just need better makers and shakers. Yes there will be a lot of horses bolted reviews on these players but they were available, so our scouting system/ contacts stinks. I can't remember the last time we stole a player for the senior team. We reportedly K/B'ed Caicedo for 4.5 whilst spending 36m on Amad. The ones that are really annoying is Caicedo, a UTD fan due to Valcenia and the 10 plus reports on Alphonso Davies also ignored. All these stories can't just be made up at least one of them must be true and shows we have sleepwalked for years. Alvarez for 14m and the fact he kid would be a starter all year for us and not used as sick cover for Haaland.

 

[Revan]

It is more how we spent rather than how much we spent. We have spent in signings more than City since they hired Pep, and in a combined XI, only Shaw makes it, with Varane, Casemiro and Rashford probably being 50-50 in making it. So we have just spent money bad while they have spent money wisely. I think it was @Sarni who posted top 15 most expensive signings of both clubs and the difference in quality was night and day.

So unless we get our shit together and start buying wisely, we won’t make a team near as good as City’s even if we spend as much as them (or a bit more).

 

[FerociousCorgis]

It is more how we spent rather than how much we spent. We have spent in signings more than City since they hired Pep, and in a combined XI, only Shaw makes it, with Varane, Casemiro and Rashford probably being 50-50 in making it. So we have just spent money bad while they have spent money wisely. I think it was @Sarni who posted top 15 most expensive signings of both clubs and the difference in quality was night and day.

So unless we get our shit together and start buying wisely, we won’t make a team near as good as City’s even if we spend as much as them (or a bit more).

exactly, weve splashed around plenty of cash that with competent transfer strategy and scouting network we couldve easily been at their level. I mean shit i still remember us bringing sanchez in and thinking we have martial/rashford both playing decently well right now at LW, absolutely no reason we are bringing in another LW player. And yet there sanchez went. Spending 50 million on a RB who had absolutely no attacking game to speak of was just crazy. 80 million for a lumbering oaf in maguire was just stupid as feck. could go down the line but we hardly make smart signings it seems.

 

[Revan]

exactly, weve splashed around plenty of cash that with competent transfer strategy and scouting network we couldve easily been at their level. I mean shit i still remember us bringing sanchez in and thinking we have martial/rashford both playing decently well right now at LW, absolutely no reason we are bringing in another LW player. And yet there sanchez went. Spending 50 million on a RB who had absolutely no attacking game to speak of was just crazy. 80 million for a lumbering oaf in maguire was just stupid as feck. could go down the line but we hardly make smart signings it seems.

75m on a winger who is now third choice?
80m on an one-trick pony winger?
70m on an awesome but 30 years old midfielder?
85m on a midfielder who was bad after his first season.
60m on a pretty good defender but who has many weaknesses (including making Lindelof look competent in aerial duels in comparison).

Honestly, the only great 50m signing we have ever done is Bruno. We have signed some good players but that have some problems:

Casemiro is awesome but he has shown signs that his legs are going a bit, so I wouldn’t be surprised if next season is his last world-class season.

Varane is a top 3 CB in the league but quite injury prone.

Martinez is one of the best ball-playing defenders in the world, a leader and reads the game very well but is slow, can be easily dribbled, and is very weak in the air.

After these 4 big-signings, better don’t check for the others cause they have been from underwhelming (Antony) to catastrophic (Sancho, Maguire, AWB).

 

[FerociousCorgis]

75m on a winger who is now third choice?
80m on an one-trick pony winger?
70m on an awesome but 30 years old midfielder?
85m on a midfielder who was bad after his first season.
60m on a pretty good defender but who has many weaknesses (including making Lindelof look competent in aerial duels in comparison).

Honestly, the only great 50m signing we have ever done is Bruno. We have signed some good players but that have some problems:

Casemiro is awesome but he has shown signs that his legs are going a bit, so I wouldn’t be surprised if next season is his last world-class season.

Varane is a top 3 CB in the league but quite injury prone.

Martinez is one of the best ball-playing defenders in the world, a leader and reads the game very well but is slow, can be easily dribbled, and is very weak in the air.

After these 4 big-signings, better don’t check for the others cause they have been from underwhelming (Antony) to catastrophic (Sancho, Maguire, AWB).

thnk you are vastly underrating martinez. He has looked much better than varane this season in my opinion, and would hardly say slow/easily dribbled/weak in air.

 

[Sarni]

It is more how we spent rather than how much we spent. We have spent in signings more than City since they hired Pep, and in a combined XI, only Shaw makes it, with Varane, Casemiro and Rashford probably being 50-50 in making it. So we have just spent money bad while they have spent money wisely. I think it was @Sarni who posted top 15 most expensive signings of both clubs and the difference in quality was night and day.

So unless we get our shit together and start buying wisely, we won’t make a team near as good as City’s even if we spend as much as them (or a bit more).

It was me.

Worth quoting here:

1. Grealish £100m - still at the club and having an important role this year
2. Dias £60m - still there and important
3. Rodri £60m - plays every game
4. Mahrez £60m - important squad player
5. Laporte £55m - important squad player
6. Cancelo £50m - used to be vital, will probably be sold for profit
7. Haaland £50m - incredible
8. Mendy £48m - in jail
9. Stones £47m - recycled into a class defender / defensive midfielder
10. Walker £45m - gave then years if quality service
11. Sane £45m - sold for profit
12. Bernardo £40m - incredible
13. Phillips £38m - shite
14. Ake £37m - turned into a quality defender
15. Ederson £35m - awesome

So basically out of 15 players he bought, maybe 2-3 were really overpriced, 11 are still there and have a role, 1 has been sold for significant profit after some good years, 1 is on loan after some decent years, 1 has no real use and 1 is in jail. And when you go down the list, it still has some quality cheap signings like Akanji, Alvarez, and hardly any that were complete waste of money.

Compare this to our list in the same period:

1. Pogba £90m - released for nothing at the end of his contract
2. Antony £80m - probably going to be a decent squad player
3. Maguire £80m - awful
4. Sancho £75m - awful
5. Casemiro £70m - probably good, though short term signing
6. Bruno £58m - awesome
7. Martinez £55m - awesome
8. Wan-Bissaka £50m - overpriced like hell
9. Fred £50m - overpriced as hell
10. VDB £38m - waste of money
11. Mkhitaryan £36m - waste of money
12. Varane £35m - great when healthy
13. Lindelof £34m - mostly bench fodder
14. Matic £34m - had maybe two good seasons
15. Bailly £30m - waste of money

If anything, out of those two clubs during this era we have been utilizing 'replace expensive player with another expensive player' approach far more.

We can afford to match their transfer outlay even with Glazers. Any wealthier owners will make it easier but it’s not absolutely necessary. We just have to stop going about our business like a bunch of morons.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Given it would likely be impossible to purchase a team that could immediately compete with this City team without having the bed in first, I think the amount needs to include however much it would cost to buy out Abu Dhabi Group and release all of the City players.

 

[RC89]

Every season we fantasise about raising loads of money with sales and it never happens, we end up stuck with players we wanted rid of for another year or we have to loan them because we can't find a buyer. When we do sell most of the time it's for pennies.

We're not getting these figures for most of the players listed.

I mean 25m for Martial is insane, we couldn't even sell him at all, we'd have to let him go for free to get rid.

I don't think it is an insane fee. Insane to believe we could get it? Sure. Our track record of selling is atrocious, but £25m for Martial I think is fair market value.

I did make a point to state that there's no way we'd achieve anything close to the above.

 

[RC89]

United will never get that much money from sales because the players are overpaid
PSG overpay even more and is forced to loan and still pay part of the salary

That’s the strength of City. They don’t overpay
20M£ a year for kdb and Haaland
Bernardo Silva, Marhez and Gundogan are under 8M£

Who would pay 25M for Martial or Maguire and then pay them 13 and 10M a year?

Agree. The salaries kill us.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

If we take City's starting 11 vs Real Madrid as their first team, here is their second team:

Ederson - Ortega: free transfer from a yoyo club in the Bundesliga
Walker - Aké: Chelsea reject and playing for relegation candidates Bournemouth
Dias - Laporte: top talent and big buy
Akanji - Gomez: from Anderlecht for 13m
Stones - Lewis: from academy
Rodri - Phillips: big buy of almost 50m but hardly a top talent, yet at least.
Silva - Mahrez: top talent and big buy
Gündogan - Palmer: from academy
De Bruyne - ?:
Grealish - Foden: from academy
Haaland - Alvarez: cost14m

Could you please explain how is this a squad that is made of two 50m signings in every position?

Nobody will reply to you because of coping mechanism and trying to blame others for our own shortcomings.

Main difference between City and United is, City have a better coach.

We are still playing 4231, City have gone to inverted defender in midfield, we are not yet even in 433 setup. You see how the inverted defender setup is effective with how City and Arsenal of first part of the season were.

I will sing this song till forever, until ETH changes the team setup we will not win anything big. we will sign Martinez City will sign Akanji but they will concede less goals than us. We will sign Casemiro and Antony but city will control a match better than us with Rodri and Bernardo Silva.

City will have a striker who touches the ball sub 30 touches in almost every game but they will have over 60% possession. Can our setup carry a striker who has 20 touches? Never. Why because in our setup striker is our outlet/pressure reliever.

 

[Revan]

thnk you are vastly underrating martinez. He has looked much better than varane this season in my opinion, and would hardly say slow/easily dribbled/weak in air.

He has a win percentage of 51% of aerial duels, averaging 2.33 aerial duel attempts per match. That is extremely bad.
For example, Lindelof who is considered very meh in the air has won 66% of his aerial duels, attempting 2.59 duels per match. So more attempts, at a far higher win rate. I think he has come from bench in a few matches, so his attempts per 90 mins should be even higher.
Varane on the other hand is very good in this aspect. 75% win rate in 2.5 attempts per match.

I do not think that Martinez has been anywhere as good as Varane, but is just having his honeymoon (first season) evaluation when Caf loses their shit praising new signings (just check how much Maguire and AWB were praised in their first season). Although to be fair to Martinez, he is much better than those two and easily better than Lindelof. But he is nowhere as good as Cf thinks (top 5 in the league, world class etc). My best comparison would be someone like Heinze (on his first season) who while very good and a fan favorite is a level below greats like Vidic or Rio (or Evra). In this case, I think Martinez is clearly a level below Varane, Van Dijk or Dias. Which still makes his our second best CB in post-Fergie time.


From my eye test, he looks to me a bit slow and gets easily dribbled. But on the other hand, he has a phenomenal understanding of the game which well-compensates for it. And his passing is immense, as is his leadership.

Again, to clarify, I am happy with that signing. I think that only Rashford, Casemiro, and Varane have had a better season, so with Bruno I have him in our top 5 players. Just that I do not think that he is (or will ever be) world-class. Which is fine, I do not think that Ake or Akanji are, and City is doing fine.

 

[Revan]

It was me.

Worth quoting here:



We can afford to match their transfer outlay even with Glazers. Any wealthier owners will make it easier but it’s not absolutely necessary. We just have to stop going about our business like a bunch of morons.

Completely agree. Seeing that posted list makes me sad.

On a side note, if Bernardo Silva is incredible, so should be Bruno. They cost around the same, and are around the same quality. For what is worth, I think both are awesome (Haaland is incredible on the other hand, as your rightly rated).

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Completely agree. Seeing that posted list makes me sad.

On a side note, if Bernardo Silva is incredible, so should be Bruno. They cost around the same, and are around the same quality. For what is worth, I think both are awesome (Haaland is incredible on the other hand, as your rightly rated).

Silva doesn't have the pressure of being City's only top class creative player though. If he doesn't produce, there's always De Bruyne. Or Grealish. Or Mahrez or Foden off the bench. He can afford to have an off day.

Bruno is under pressure to produce all the time because Antony has no end product, Sancho is a waste of space and Garnacho is still only young and now coming back from injury.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

So you are saying Maguire is worth the same as Sancho. Unbelievable Jeff.

Personally I don't think so, but for some reason there seems to be interest in Maguire. Haven't heard much interest in Sancho so he's worth what he plays like.

De Gea is worth nothing, he's out of contract unless he signs a new one and that would mean he's staying, and why would you ever sell Amad, at worst he's competition for Antony unless that's Pellestri which seems unlikely, so the one to sell is Pellestri

Can't see Sancho or Martial leaving, they earn too much and they'll never get that kind of money elsewhere, DvB could leave but he's worth next to nothing given his injury, Henderson should go but he'll be hard to sell with his wages

I thought De Gea was signing a new contract? Then we can sell him for a little bit if so. Amad is ok but don't see him being good enough to be a United player and certainly not if we're looking to compete with teams who have two top class stars in every position. Yeah forgot about DvB, that's another £10m maybe.

If Amad wasn’t on loan at Sunderland.. they’d be selling him to a top 6 club this summer for £50m plus.

They definitely wouldn't. One decent season in the championship does not make you a £50m player. He won't be getting into our team next season and will likely be loaned out again.

 

[BootsyCollins]

We need a world class goalie and forward, pluss some backup att CDM, RB and MF to challange imo. So whatever Kane, a goalie, Caicedo, Frimpong and a midfielder costs.

 

[horsechoker]

24

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Who was the last top quality performer for United that we got for a snip? We used to be famous for it under Fergie, he bought the likes of Schmeichel, Irwin, Cantona and Solskjaer for buttons, and they went on to be legends for the club.

Every signing now is for eye watering amounts, and half of them turn out to be flops. There's no skill or guile in our recruitment, just lob out the chequebook and pay over the odds for overrated, mediocre players and hope they come good.

 

[JakeC]

Who was the last top quality performer for United that we got for a snip? We used to be famous for it under Fergie, he bought the likes of Schmeichel, Irwin, Cantona and Solskjaer for buttons, and they went on to be legends for the club.

Every signing now is for eye watering amounts, and half of them turn out to be flops. There's no skill or guile in our recruitment, just lob out the chequebook and pay over the odds for overrated, mediocre players and hope they come good.

I mean times have changed. Of course our recruitment isn't good enough, but you don't get Oles, Cantonas, for that money anymore. Looking back you'd think Roy Keane was bought for buttons, but he broke the record for a British selling club.

30 million is the new 5.

Last transfers we've done very well out of, scouting wise, imo are the following.

Current players.

Dalot - 20 million pound (only 6 pro starts)
Shaw - 30 million pound (teenage record at the time)
Martinez - 50 million pound will be a bargain, he's world class. Obviously Ajax are showing us up, we should be getting them straight from an original club instead of using the likes of them, Dortmund, Porto etc as brokers, but I don't think until now we've been an attractive proposition to young talent. That's changing.

As a second point, if we had a more rational (and ruthless) attitude to selling we would have made very good money out of the likes of Smalling, Herrera, Rojo, Blackett, McNair, Lingard, Elanga, Blind, Welbeck, Nani, and scores of others.

Its a culture that I genuinely trust ETH to reset.

 

[lex talionis]

I haven’t read every post here, but more than a few have rightly noted that the amount of spend isn’t the right question. It’s the quality that really matters. It also helps to have fortune on your side. Example: We know that Martial and Sancho have it in their DNA but for whatever reason both have been shite the last two seasons. We can spend 500m on new players on the basis of the best scouting possible but if they all turn out to be the another group of Martials we’re fukked. If we buy promising but not crazy expensive players who turn out to give it everything they’re got, like Martinez, we will lift major trophies.

 

[JB7]

If we take City's starting 11 vs Real Madrid as their first team, here is their second team:

Ederson - Ortega: free transfer from a yoyo club in the Bundesliga
Walker - Aké: Chelsea reject and playing for relegation candidates Bournemouth
Dias - Laporte: top talent and big buy
Akanji - Gomez: from Anderlecht for 13m
Stones - Lewis: from academy
Rodri - Phillips: big buy of almost 50m but hardly a top talent, yet at least.
Silva - Mahrez: top talent and big buy
Gündogan - Palmer: from academy
De Bruyne - ?:
Grealish - Foden: from academy
Haaland - Alvarez: cost14m

Could you please explain how is this a squad that is made of two 50m signings in every position?

I take the general point that City have built their squad better than we have over a number of years, both in terms of buying and selling players - I do struggle to look past the fact that they were massively helped by the period before any real rules were put into place where they spent absolutely ridiculous amounts of money that everyone seems to conveniently ignore - but some of this is a little odd in truth.

Regardless of where he came from, Ake cost them £41m. Laporte was £57m. Lewis may well have come through the academy but the reality is they have sent a £60m full back out on loan to bring him through and another £60m full back that everyone's just forgotten about. They spent £50m on Phillips for him to play 105 minutes in the league so far this season. They paid £60m for Mahrez. They also spend £10-15m on a lot of players who never play for them, sometimes it works out, sometimes not. Additionally they spent very very aggressively on their youth system in the years immediately after the takeover, it's about time they had a few coming through into their own team fairness.

I don't want to disagree too much overall because I am also of the opinion that you don't have to spend £50m on every position to significantly improve the position - goalkeeper being one of the most obvious ones for us right now - but I do think you went a little further than necessary to show your point.

 

[Red in STL]

Who was the last top quality performer for United that we got for a snip? We used to be famous for it under Fergie, he bought the likes of Schmeichel, Irwin, Cantona and Solskjaer for buttons, and they went on to be legends for the club.

Every signing now is for eye watering amounts, and half of them turn out to be flops. There's no skill or guile in our recruitment, just lob out the chequebook and pay over the odds for overrated, mediocre players and hope they come good.

Depends what you define as a snip, SAF made his fair share of expensive flops as well, but you can't compare those days with now, managers of todays era don't get the benefit of time so they aren't going to take many gambles, not at the top end of the PL, in today's world SAF would have been sacked before he actually won anything

 

[Devil81]

People need to realise, it wasn't just the side with City. The major investment they made that has put them where they are today was the backroom staff from Barca and Pep.

If we'd have signed most of those players during our dark period they'd have failed like many of our players did. They've been coached better, they know their system and are so well drilled.

I'm sick of hearing City fans say we've spent more than them. We've not built a training complex, improved the stadium, playing squads at all levels and the elite coaching and backroom staff.

They've bought the best of everything. It's game over guys.

 

[Theonas]

I take the general point that City have built their squad better than we have over a number of years, both in terms of buying and selling players - I do struggle to look past the fact that they were massively helped by the period before any real rules were put into place where they spent absolutely ridiculous amounts of money that everyone seems to conveniently ignore - but some of this is a little odd in truth.

Regardless of where he came from, Ake cost them £41m. Laporte was £57m. Lewis may well have come through the academy but the reality is they have sent a £60m full back out on loan to bring him through and another £60m full back that everyone's just forgotten about. They spent £50m on Phillips for him to play 105 minutes in the league so far this season. They paid £60m for Mahrez. They also spend £10-15m on a lot of players who never play for them, sometimes it works out, sometimes not. Additionally they spent very very aggressively on their youth system in the years immediately after the takeover, it's about time they had a few coming through into their own team fairness.

I don't want to disagree too much overall because I am also of the opinion that you don't have to spend £50m on every position to significantly improve the position - goalkeeper being one of the most obvious ones for us right now - but I do think you went a little further than necessary to show your point.

My only point is that I hate us turning to how our rivals behaved in the '90s and '00s. They looked small and whiny crying over how we were richer than them and could afford to do this and that and how Fergie had the refs, the FA was scared of us and the league was full of his disciples who let him win. It was petty and small time. Now I see some of our fans doing the same and it just makes us look small time.

City's resources and how they built their squad are not significantly higher than any super club in Europe, including us. Where that money came from is an ethical issue and one can argue about it separately. But when it comes to how that money was used, they have simply done brilliantly. It's up to us and the rest of Europe to challenge that because we do enjoy similar resources, even if you want argue, our resources are more ethically sourced, it still doesn't justify their mismanagement.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

We know that Martial and Sancho have it in their DNA but for whatever reason both have been shite the last two seasons.

That's the problem, they DON'T have it in their DNA!