Sad that Rog had to retire today, he's such a good dude on top of being a phenomenal rider. That third or 4th stage (i forgot) was just too brutal.
Pro Cycling 2021
- Thread starter RobinLFC
- Start date
At this point it's a distinct possibility - the times they're putting are ridiculous
The other day Mohoric raced 250km with over 3000 meters of elevation in 5 hrs 29 minutes. Followed by Teuns doing 150 km, + 3500 meters of elevation, in wet roads, < 4 hrs.
It's just defies belief.
The only questions is PEDs or small motors on the bikes?
The other day Mohoric raced 250km with over 3000 meters of elevation in 5 hrs 29 minutes. Followed by Teuns doing 150 km, + 3500 meters of elevation, in wet roads, < 4 hrs.
It's just defies belief.
The only questions is PEDs or small motors on the bikes?
Just no, get out with those questions.
You forget that this is one of the best young talents of the last 30 odd years and his main competition is who exactly? A nearly retired Rigoberto Uran, Wilco Kelderman, Enric Mas, Lutsenko, Carapaz? All but Carapaz haven’t even come close to actually competing for a grand Tour, let alone they’ll be a match for Pogacar in the form of his season. The Watts he’s producing are very high but nothing suspicious about them either.
Just enjoy a talented rider.
You forget that this is one of the best young talents of the last 30 odd years and his main competition is who exactly? A nearly retired Rigoberto Uran, Wilco Kelderman, Enric Mas, Lutsenko, Carapaz? All but Carapaz haven’t even come close to actually competing for a grand Tour, let alone they’ll be a match for Pogacar in the form of his season. The Watts he’s producing are very high but nothing suspicious about them either.
Just enjoy a talented rider.
I say just enjoy the ride knowing it’s a possibility. It’s naive not to.
Why did MVDP retire by the way?
Wout, Aliaphillipe, Roglic MVDP the whole Ineos team…. He’s just blown by them.
Im a huge Pog fan, and I enjoy his successes but there’s a question on the back of my mind that there’s maybe just maybe a possibility he’s not riding clean. It would break my heart, but I can’t suppress my skepticism sorry
Doubt it. His record right from the off has been exceptional. Just check his Palmares - The guy is a serial winner and likely a one in a generation type of rider. I say that in one breath knowing we have Remco but you get the drift.
He has achieved everything he wanted in this Tour. Got his stage win and held the yellow jersey for a good chunk of the first week. I believe the Olympic MTB race is just 3 weeks away so he really needs some time on his MTB. It was always very unlikely that he would finish the Tour.
I see, I thought he was a GC contender.
Another question - why does the yellow jersey get a lion with no pants but the green jersey gets a mountain cat with pants?
(lil niece wondering)
Another question - why does the yellow jersey get a lion with no pants but the green jersey gets a mountain cat with pants?
(lil niece wondering)
Great ride in stage 9 by O’Connor.
You can see how much it means to guys like that when they win their 1st stage. That will stay with him his whole life. Their grandkids will be hearing the story for ages.
He didn’t hurt his overall standing either!
You can see how much it means to guys like that when they win their 1st stage. That will stay with him his whole life. Their grandkids will be hearing the story for ages.
He didn’t hurt his overall standing either!
But the guys you mention are not climbers? Van Aert can stay relatively close because he can produce outrageous W/Kg for a reasonable period of time but he's not a climber. Pogacar already quite handily beat him in the Tirreno-Adriatico back in March when he wasn't even on top of his game.
The Alps are too long for Alaphilippe. VDP has never and will never be a climber (weighs >10kg more than Pogacar), Ineos is decimated and really only has Carapaz as a very good climber, and Roglic is a different story because of his injury. I'm pretty sure he would've been able to stay close to Pogacar if fully healthy.
There's no doubt they are of course taking everything which is legally allowed to improve their performances, but everyone does that. Perhaps some teams are using stuff that others don't (e.g. Quick-Step if you look at Cavendish' revival and how badly riders perform after they leave Quick-Step), but it would still be something that isn't on the "not allowed list" and I doubt it would be something as simplistic as the epo or blood doping they were using a decade (or two) ago.
In Pogacar's case though there's no reason to doubt his performances so far. It's not like his whole team is dominating like Sky or US Postal used to do either, it's just him who is incredible. His rise to the top was steady through the Vuelta and then the Tour, he has been touted as a wonderkid for half a decade by now, and he's racing against probably the most average field of competitors for the GC in a very, very long time imo. It sucks because the tension is most likely gone from the Tour if he doesn't crash but I'm just gonna enjoy it, and who knows what happens of course.
Think it's quite possible that he's microdosing various stuff but don't think there's a new super drug around, which some seem to believe. We know from Operation Aderlass that the biological passport doesn't stop blood doping or other oxygen-vector doping per se as long as you don't go yolo and shoot your hematocrit or other values to the moon. So I think it's quite likely that at the top of the sport there's various medical assistance but it's not (yet?) the Wild West scenarious of the 90s and early 00s. Pogacar himself doesn't seem less believable than Sky/Ineos or Froome all those years, as @RobinLFC said, exceptional talent going against a not so great field now with Roglic out. I mean, people had 35 year old Thomas or 36 year old Porte as half favorites, that's just too old. Carapaz is slightly overrated I feel and the rest are guys like Keldermann or Mas who maybe hope for top 5, avoid taking pulls and nothing more.
Pogacars times on Colombier and Col de Romme weren't absolutely insane, slightly quicker than Contador and the Schlecks in 2009 but that was in the 3rd week and the queen stage. He loves the rain and cold conditions where others suffer and he's really good at riding his tempo while the others (especially also yesterday) also play a bit cat and mouse looking at each other.
Still, taking 3:20 minutes on other GC contenders without a crazy far away solo - the last time that happened was Hautacam 2000 and we all know how that went down. There's also the big red flag of Mauro Gianetti who, alongside other clowns like Lefevre or Vinokourow, should have been hounded out of the sport long time ago. That's for me the biggest problem with cycling, there's always a consistent red line of personnel dating back to active EPO era involvement.
But despite Pogacars showing, Bahrain Victorious should raise faaar more eyebrows. Them not taking Padun and Mäder to the Tour after they destroyed the competition before the Tour is already suspicious as feck but they have so many previously average riders that suddenly kill it in breakaways or long solo rides, it just smells of a completely overblown team programm. Mohoric and Poels consistently attacking super early and riding in front of the Peleton, wasting so much energy with random ITT efforts, Colbrelli making the Jalabert transformation and suddenly climbing like a goat. Dodgy as hell.
Pogacars times on Colombier and Col de Romme weren't absolutely insane, slightly quicker than Contador and the Schlecks in 2009 but that was in the 3rd week and the queen stage. He loves the rain and cold conditions where others suffer and he's really good at riding his tempo while the others (especially also yesterday) also play a bit cat and mouse looking at each other.
Still, taking 3:20 minutes on other GC contenders without a crazy far away solo - the last time that happened was Hautacam 2000 and we all know how that went down. There's also the big red flag of Mauro Gianetti who, alongside other clowns like Lefevre or Vinokourow, should have been hounded out of the sport long time ago. That's for me the biggest problem with cycling, there's always a consistent red line of personnel dating back to active EPO era involvement.
But despite Pogacars showing, Bahrain Victorious should raise faaar more eyebrows. Them not taking Padun and Mäder to the Tour after they destroyed the competition before the Tour is already suspicious as feck but they have so many previously average riders that suddenly kill it in breakaways or long solo rides, it just smells of a completely overblown team programm. Mohoric and Poels consistently attacking super early and riding in front of the Peleton, wasting so much energy with random ITT efforts, Colbrelli making the Jalabert transformation and suddenly climbing like a goat. Dodgy as hell.
To be honest that's quite shady if you know what those guys put inside their bodies
Exactly. Matxin Fernandez is a general manager at UAE Emirates as well, he has a history at Saunier Duval when they had Riccardo Ricco, Piepoli, Cobo Acebo, ...
Yeah a whole team performing above their level is always more suspicious than a super talent doing super talent stuff. I don't know what's going on at Bahrain Victorious but if there's anything I don't trust about this Tour, it's that team. I wouldn't say their riders were previously average, but certainly not absolute top class. We'll see if they keep this up the rest of the Tour, maybe their team training camp made them all peak in the first week or something.
As for Pogacar and bad weather, for some reason he just doesn't seem to feel it as much as the rest. That stage in the Tirreno was the best example of that. Van Aert, who races an entire winter in cold, wet, mud and snow was visibly suffering and MVDP was completely empty by the end. Pogacar nearly caught MVDP and looked perfectly fine at the end.
As for Pogacar and bad weather, for some reason he just doesn't seem to feel it as much as the rest. That stage in the Tirreno was the best example of that. Van Aert, who races an entire winter in cold, wet, mud and snow was visibly suffering and MVDP was completely empty by the end. Pogacar nearly caught MVDP and looked perfectly fine at the end.
Good point. I forgot about Padun, he smashed two back to back races at the Dauphine right before le tour started, was riding like a man possessed.
Last edited:
Hear there’s an expectation of cross-winds today. Should make for an interesting finale, which sprinters can stay at the front, can anyone distance Pogacar.
fecking hell Cavendish
No way he is not at least matching Merckx record this year now. Would be beautiful if he could take the 35th at the Champs-Elysees.
Just got to survive Ventoux x2
Yep, if he can survive that then it's game on. I'd love him to do it on the Champs-Élysées in style.
Thursday and Friday look like probable sprint days, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s broken it before the next rest day!
Might as well not call them “Flat Route” and just call then “Cav Wins”
I've been catching up on the last few days.
Formolo absolutely buried himself for a long time at the front before launching Pog, Voeckleresque facial expressions included. and still finished with the GC guys. Pog's ride was crazy, and maybe it is too good to be true, but if Carapaz cannot distance Formolo after that effort then how can you expect to follow one of the sport's biggest talents? I would have loved to see a healthy Roglic or Bernal instead of Uran and Mas.
Formolo absolutely buried himself for a long time at the front before launching Pog, Voeckleresque facial expressions included. and still finished with the GC guys. Pog's ride was crazy, and maybe it is too good to be true, but if Carapaz cannot distance Formolo after that effort then how can you expect to follow one of the sport's biggest talents? I would have loved to see a healthy Roglic or Bernal instead of Uran and Mas.
Cav’s teams leadout for him to take the sprint today was perfection.
You could see how grateful Cav was to his teammates when he won which was great to see.
You could see how grateful Cav was to his teammates when he won which was great to see.
Big stage today, I think Pogacar might play it safe today rather than push for a stage win.
If it was a mountain top finish on the Ventoux, I think the stage win would've appealed to him more. Who doesn't want to win there? But since it's downhill until the finish, they'll probably just let a group go. If he feels good, I can still see him try something on the final ascent. It's such a mythical climb, distancing your rivals must feel extra special there. All depends on how he feels of course.
Meanwhile, Tony Martin crashed again and is out of the race. I know what happened on the first day wasn't his fault, but there are certain riders who just seem to crash all the time, it can't be a coincidence.
WvA is a madman.
Yeah Van Aert went above and beyond today. He can do it all when he’s in form, sprint, climb, time trial. Should try to win it next year perhaps?
Van Aert was disappointed with his first week, let's set it right in the second week. Holy shit. What a fecking hero!
What a fecking hero!Is Cavendish the greatest British cyclists of all time, he was the man who started yer tour winning generation and seems to be the man who's ending it.
Phenomenal from Cavendish. Of course, a lot of his competition is no longer in the Tour, but still a great comeback. Lots of credit should go to the entire Deceuninck-Quickstep team, and in particular Mørkøv. They made sure he didn't drop out in the mountains and give him a great shot every sprint.
I really hope he breaks the record on the final day - what a moment that would be!
I really hope he breaks the record on the final day - what a moment that would be!
Yes. I guess you could argue Froome with his number of yellows, but when you look at Cav’s palmares away from the Tour as well, it has to be him.
Yet Froome won all 3 tours on the bounce, an utterly unreal achievement in the modern day. Forget the fact he was the superest of super domestiques in allowing his teammates to win 2 Tours he likely could of won(or at least definitely the one Wiggins won, GT was hot but if Froome was a selfish leader he could of clamped him in a bit). A genuine class act.
Both could of achieved more too if not for injuries, just happy to have both, and Wiggins too, he's no way near them anymore on a complete level, but he was the right man to spearhead it all. He was there from the start in 2000 and handed the baton over to both... literally to Cav too(though they flopped big time in 08)
Both could of achieved more too if not for injuries, just happy to have both, and Wiggins too, he's no way near them anymore on a complete level, but he was the right man to spearhead it all. He was there from the start in 2000 and handed the baton over to both... literally to Cav too(though they flopped big time in 08)
Nice stage win today by the dutchie Bauke Mollema, who has to have one of the best names in cycling. Only his 2nd ever stage win in the TDF.
Fun trivia: his name is so good that it is often used affectionately as a verb by Dutch speaking cycling fans and even media. "Mollemalen", which means riding your bike with his specific, workman-like style.
On another note, what I found disappointing about this stage is how other teams with riders in the top 10 didn't even seem to care that Guillaume Martin was in the break and jumped from 9th to 2nd. It's indicative of Pogacar's complete domination that the others don't even seem to bother defending their GC, as if it doesn't matter anyway since he's so ridiculously superior. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Isn't there a lot of money ties to your final position? (and whatever prestige it gets) I assumed they didn't care because they're expecting Martin to fall off again once they get back into the heavy mountain stages.
That would be a risky assumption, as Martin is a climber who's won the Mountain jersey in the Vuelta last year and finished 12th and 11th in the GC of the Tour in the last two years. It has to be said that today's breakaway was fiercely contested for almost 100 km.