Prime Hazard or Prime Salah?

Dancfc said:
On that basis Lampard and Gerrard were on another planet to Iniesta and Xavi.
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Can people stop bringing out this comparison as some sort of performance vs output holy grail. :lol: Any team would score far more goals with the Spaniards as opposed to having the likes of Lampard. Those guys literally amped up the offensive productivity of their teams more than anyone else.
 
Dancfc said:
Don't get me wrong I fully understand why people would pick Salah and for what it's worth I'd probably say his superior record (performance wise) in the UCL latter stages gives him the edge.

I just find it really lazy when people point to numbers alone. David Silva is actually an excellent comparison, looking purely at numbers many left mids/midfielders are/were better when in reality they weren't fit to clean his boots.
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My last sentence was supposed to be "my answer is Salah" not the answer :lol:

Yeah the bolded actually plays a part in my reasoning too. And I actually have some issues with that but it's hard when comparing players at the level of Hazard and Salah without putting weight into performances on those kinds of stages.
 
ThatsGreat said:
Why not, we're comparing their primes together. Their time playing for the same team, and manager is very relevant.
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So it should also be relevant that the manager was a selective divisive thundercnut who has a history of alienating multiple talented players out of his teams which has had nothing to do with their performances. The last thing I'd ever consider while discussing two players is what Jose fecking Mourinho's opinion is about them.
 
duffer said:
Now, for an equally unbiased view, what does Hazard's mum think?
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Dancfc said:
On that basis Lampard and Gerrard were on another planet to Iniesta and Xavi.
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I like the fact that the only posters in this thread who thinks Hazard is better are Chelsea fans.

Meanwhile the majority of us, United fans who hate Liverpool, know that Salah is better.
 
Obviously Salah. He's slowly getting into the territory of greatest prem players of all time.
 
el3mel said:
I like the fact that the only posters in this thread who thinks Hazard is better are Chelsea fans.

Meanwhile the majority of us, United fans who hate Liverpool, know that Salah is better.
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Well if you read my previous post I said Salah shades it due to his performances in the latter stages of the UCL.

The part of your post I'm contesting is the bit your basing it on their numbers, it's a very narrow minded way of looking at it.
 
Moby said:
So it should also be relevant that the manager was a selective divisive thundercnut who has a history of alienating multiple talented players out of his teams which has had nothing to do with their performances. The last thing I'd ever consider while discussing two players is what Jose fecking Mourinho's opinion is about them.
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Mourinho usually gives a couple of players complete freedom, and they're the best in the team. He picked Hazard over Salah, though ofcourse it could be said that Salah peaked later in his career than Hazard. I still think playing in a well oiled machine like Liverpool has helped Salah a lot, and a prime Hazard was the better player but there's not much between them to be a debate.
 
Dancfc said:
Well if you read my previous post I said Salah shades it due to his performances in the latter stages of the UCL.

The part of your post I'm contesting is the bit your basing it on their numbers, it's a very narrow minded way of looking at it.
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Hazard's productivity has always been criticized here. This isn't something new. In his prime he was a great dribbler and someone who will create a lot of chances but ultimately he never reached the same heights of many top class wingers. People here used to talk about this whenever the discussion about Real bringing him to replace Ronaldo arise, that he'll never, ever manage to replace Ronaldo's productivity or take his place in the team.

Just as you say it's narrow minded to base it on numbers, it's very narrow minded to base it on which player can dribble better. I remember similar discussions when Salah and Mane comparisons happened.. that Mane is better because he's a better dribbler and more entertaining etc, but the reality the overall package favors Salah heavily.
 
Ninety percent of the people on here who have picked Salah have also called Jack Grealish a "generational talent" on another thread.

Their opinions belong in the bin.
 
el3mel said:
Hazard's productivity has always been criticized here. This isn't something new. In his prime he was a great dribbler and someone who will create a lot of chances but ultimately he never reached the same heights of many top class wingers. People here used to talk about this whenever the discussion about Real bringing him to replace Ronaldo arise, that he'll never, ever manage to replace Ronaldo's productivity or take his place in the team.

Just as you say it's narrow minded to base it on numbers, it's very narrow minded to base it on which player can dribble better. I remember similar discussions when Salah and Mane comparisons happened.. that Mane is better because he's a better dribbler and more entertaining etc, but the reality the overall package favors Salah heavily.
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Which goes to show just how G/A stat obsessed everything is in the modern day. To stick to Liverpool for another example, Firmino is a pretty crucial glue between the midfield and Salah/Mane yet he gets mocked because he doesn't put up the raw numbers despite the fact he's a big reason Salah and Mane do/can so easily. Switch the Brazillian for an out and out poacher (even an elite one like Haaland) and they will be significantly weaker as a unit.

Ronaldinho got a Balon Dor off the back of a 9 goal league season and he was a joy to watch that year. I find it quite sad that a season like that would barely be acknowledged in the present day let alone rewarded so heavily.
 
Salah joined Liverpool in 2017 and has not had a drop off in form since then. His consistency is something that is currently unrivalled in the league and he could end up as one of the best signings a Premier League side has ever made. £37m was an absolute bargain for him!
 
Speedy30 said:
Salah joined Liverpool in 2017 and has not had a drop off in form since then. His consistency is something that is currently unrivalled in the league and he could end up as one of the best signings a Premier League side has ever made. £37m was an absolute bargain for him!
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He's got an amazing goals record, but he started with 32 in his first season, then dropped massively to 19-22 in the next 3 seasons.
Great record still of course, but quite a significant drop.
 
Sandikan said:
He's got an amazing goals record, but he started with 32 in his first season, then dropped massively to 19-22 in the next 3 seasons.
Great record still of course, but quite a significant drop.
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Fair point and in fairness to him, the season he scored 19, he made 3 or 4 less appearances that the one before and after, in which he scored 22. Give him those extra 3 or 4 games and he'd probably have got 22 in 3 successive seasons.
I don't remember a player putting up those numbers so consistently for such a length of time though. He's the best player in world football right now and if he stays fit, he could drive us towards a major trophy this year
 
Salah is probably going to go down as one of the best premier league players of all time tbh.
 
On their best day there is nothing to choose between them, on their worst day Salah is so much better it's not even close.
 
Numbers wise, and consistent threat wise of course Salah.

But Hazard was arguably the more talented player. He'd beat players for fun. Salah has scored a couple of goals recently turning players around, but Hazard's whole game was racing through people with the ball under control. That's not Salah's game.
 
I'd rather watch Hazard, but rather have Salah.
 
It's hard to talk about prime without duration and just for that Salah edges it. However Hazard has always been my favorite type of footballer.
 
Salah by a whisker. Prime Hazard was unbelievable but Salah’s end product is a level (or two) above.
 
Having watched Hazard take Lille to the title for the first time in six decades I will go with Hazard. Salah has been a late bloomer and now that Hazard has fallen off the pace, people will go with Salah and it's understandable. But those who would have watched Hazard at Lille those two seasons, would know the amazing potential and productivity he displayed at that age. It's another thing that he never realized his entire potential.
 
Dancfc said:
Which goes to show just how G/A stat obsessed everything is in the modern day. To stick to Liverpool for another example, Firmino is a pretty crucial glue between the midfield and Salah/Mane yet he gets mocked because he doesn't put up the raw numbers despite the fact he's a big reason Salah and Mane do/can so easily. Switch the Brazillian for an out and out poacher (even an elite one like Haaland) and they will be significantly weaker as a unit.

Ronaldinho got a Balon Dor off the back of a 9 goal league season and he was a joy to watch that year. I find it quite sad that a season like that would barely be acknowledged in the present day let alone rewarded so heavily.
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Firmino's role can be played by any other striker who's more of a teamplayer and doesn't care about being the main scorer of the team. Benzema had no problem playing a similar role in Madrid for Ronaldo.

Salah's role can't be played by any other one. It's not easy to find a well reliable goal scorer who bangs +30 goals a season. No matter how much we talk about it, Salah had a season in which he banged 44 goals including 32 in the league, how many Premier League players scored +30 goals in a PL season ? Only Ronaldo and Suarez from my memory. Hazard in PL never reached similar heights. He was obviously a great player, great dribbler and very good playmaker, but that's not enough to make him better than the likes of Ronaldo and Salah in Premier League.
 
Salah is quicker and probably more clinical but is completely one footed.

Hazard was technically on a far higher level and wasn’t that bad with his left foot.

Both might play as wingers that cut inside but neither could do what the other could. It’s apples and oranges.
 
el3mel said:
Firmino's role can be played by any other striker who's more of a teamplayer and doesn't care about being the main scorer of the team. Benzema had no problem playing a similar role in Madrid for Ronaldo.

Salah's role can't be played by any other one. It's not easy to find a well reliable goal scorer who bangs +30 goals a season. No matter how much we talk about it, Salah had a season in which he banged 44 goals including 32 in the league, how many Premier League players scored +30 goals in a PL season ? Only Ronaldo and Suarez from my memory. Hazard in PL never reached similar heights. He was obviously a great player, great dribbler and very good playmaker, but that's not enough to make him better than the likes of Ronaldo and Salah in Premier League.
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Salah, Ronaldo, Shearer, Kane, Suarez, Phillips, Henry and Van Persie.

Drogba just missed out on the 30+ club, he got 29 one season.
 
duffer said:
Salah, Ronaldo, Shearer, Kane, Suarez, Phillips, Henry and Van Persie.

Drogba just missed out on the 30+ club, he got 29 one season.
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Thanks for the information, so 8 players including only 2 wingers, Salah and Ronaldo.
 
duffer said:
If Lampard had just let Didier take 1 pen, it'd be 9!
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Still, only 2 wingers out of those. The rest are all strikers. It shows that Salah and Ronaldo were different class to the rest of PL wingers when it comes to productivity.
 
Speedy30 said:
Fair point and in fairness to him, the season he scored 19, he made 3 or 4 less appearances that the one before and after, in which he scored 22. Give him those extra 3 or 4 games and he'd probably have got 22 in 3 successive seasons.
I don't remember a player putting up those numbers so consistently for such a length of time though. He's the best player in world football right now and if he stays fit, he could drive us towards a major trophy this year
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Has Harry Kane's ultra slow start made him disappear from history too? -_-

el3mel said:
Still, only 2 wingers out of those. The rest are all strikers. It shows that Salah and Ronaldo were different class to the rest of PL wingers when it comes to productivity.
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But tactics have substantially evolved, you can't compare a modern winger with an old winger, Salah's direct comparison with historical players should be strikers or similar wing forwards.
 
SirReginald said:
Salah is quicker and probably more clinical but is completely one footed.
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Nah, he scores a decent amount with his right foot and has some quite impressive goals with his right in his tally
 
Zen said:
But tactics have substantially evolved, you can't compare a modern winger with an old winger, Salah's direct comparison with historical players should be strikers or similar wing forwards.
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Ronaldo scored 31 goals in the league in 2008 ? The fact that from 2008 to 2021 the only wing who managed a similar goals tally is Salah shows that it's not easy for PL wingers at all to be such ridiculous goal scorers for their team. We're not comparing them to players from the 90s. We're talking about the last 15 years of football or so.
 
Prime Hazard or Prime Salah for a big match? I may be biased but Hazard all day. Hazard ensures you dominate a match and you only need one goal to win. Dominating a match is always more effective than the possibility of more goals in the grand scheme of things.

Hazard was also by far the biggest contributor to his team's title wins in France and England. It wasn't long ago that every pundit said they'd take Mane over Salah.
 
Salah - hate to admit it but he’s moving into some pretty rarefied EPL air, and if he keeps it up, he’ll be in the conversation with Henry and Ronaldo.
 
el3mel said:
Still, only 2 wingers out of those. The rest are all strikers. It shows that Salah and Ronaldo were different class to the rest of PL wingers when it comes to productivity.
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I agree with much of what you're saying but is it really correct to describe Salah as a winger? He's much more of an inside forward and his average position is almost always the furthest up the pitch for Liverpool.

Like I said, I take your point but I would not necessarily draw the distinction you've done here. And to be fair, Hazard also was more of an inside forward, albeit one who dropped much deeper.

As to the original question, I'd go Hazard in a shit team and Salah in a functional team that can create chances. The irony is that they'd be absolutely fecking brilliant together and extremely complimentary - ultimately it comes down to whether you prefer nigh-incomparable finishing or creation.
 
As much as I hate to throw praise at a Liverpool player, it's not even close. Salah is head and shoulders above Hazard. Even at his best, Hazard isn't even close to Salah at his worst (only counting Liverpool years).
 
Always find it hilarious that we hear Hazard was hampered playing for defensive minded managers or with poor strikers.

12/13, 14/15, 16/17 all seasons Chelsea were 2nd top scorers. 13/14 third highest.

Are Belgium defensive minded? 33 goals in 115 matches. 13 being penalties. Effectively he has 20 non penalty goals in 115 games for Belgium. Whats the excuse here?!
 
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