Prime Bale or Prime Salah?

Well...

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the thing is, this so called peak Bale doesn't even make sense because people here are collecting parts of his career and merging them into a single one, season that never happened.

you can't just take his last season at Spurs, ignore his second season at Madrid where he was fit but simply far less successful, and then add the CL final goal from 2018, then ignore the next one again and say he was the best parts from those good seasons combined in his "prime".

if that was the prime Bale that whole time (2012-2018), then his prime wasn't short at all. meaning, he simply couldn't match Salah numbers even when fit.
 
bosnian_red said:
I've always been a bit of a Bale hater though. Obviously a great player and very effective, but it was a bit focused towards having a banger of a shot on him and his stupid pace. Aside from that he didn't stand out in other attributes, but those 2 were probably the best in the world so it made him a top player.
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the moment he said to AVB that he feels constrained and wants to switch to a much more offensive role where he could shoot more, was the moment he became all about "moments" = shooting and goals. the moment he was fielded behind Adebayor it started being almost entirely about attacking output for him.

he's not Giggs who lost his pace, but still had the overall game and intelligence to play in central midfield for us without anyone caring how much he scored. or Di Maria. or fecking Kuyt where you appreciate how much tracking back he is doing on the wing.

Bale with underwhelming numbers in roles he played for Madrid and Spurs simply has way less value.

it was suggested here that he shouldn't be judged on goals and assists, but I can't see how. he was never a player you pay 100 mil. euros for and not care about the output.
 
Hammondo said:
I think you are confused, the argument used was that real Madrid "broke the bank" to get Bale, but Salah was too young at the time,  making the argument pointless..
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This line of reasoning makes zero sense. "Salah being a kid at the time' has zero to do with Bale's best season resulting in him being sort after for world record fees. For
The discussion going on is about their best season's as senior pros. Not " how they performed at the same age"
 
Bole Top said:
the thing is, this so called peak Bale doesn't even make sense because people here are collecting parts of his career and merging them into a single one, season that never happened.

you can't just take his last season at Spurs, ignore his second season at Madrid where he was fit but simply far less successful, and then add the CL final goal from 2018, then ignore the next one again and say he was the best parts from those good seasons combined in his "prime".

if that was the prime Bale that whole time (2012-2018), then his prime wasn't short at all. meaning, he simply couldn't match Salah numbers even when fit.
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Why not? That last season at Spurs is probably peak Bale, no?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
in Salah's best EPL season he had 8 M.O.M. Awards. Bale in his had 11.....thats just for starters
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44 goals and 15 assists.

Bale's best is 19+10.

I know it's not always down to numbers, but Salah's output is literally more than twice as much in their best respective seasons.

No penalties taken that season either.
 
Salah and comfortably so, consistency is a big big part of being a great/better player. Salah has been a machine for almost 8 years now, and he is in running of being the GOAT Premier League player. Folks need to take a look at his numbers, they are just staggering. Bale was a phenomenal player in his pomp, but Salah trumps him.

Also, folks writing Eden Hazard was better than both need to give their head a wobble. He might be the most overrated player in the last 10-15 years, you take a look at his compilations and it's just the league, did next to nothing in European football, both at club and at an International level.
 
CoopersDream said:
But if we move on from 'his peak in that match' or whatever, Salah is clearly the better player if we look at just their peak form over a few months or so. And if we look at their respective best seasons it's fairly clearly Salah is ahead.
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we can't even say "over a month". Salah is so consistent, with him it's a decade of constant g/a output.

Salah's last "underwhelming" seasons were the ones at Roma and even those were very good. 14 league goals during the first loan then followed by 15 league goals and 13 league assists in the season before Roma sold him to Liverpool. he maintained the assist numbers for the next 8 seasons and is now in the same company with players like Henry and Beckham on the EPL assist table.

he's on 6 assists for current season. meaning, he needs 5 or 6 more assists to make it 9 seasons in row with 10+ assists output. and since it's november, there's good chance of that happening.

... while obviously keeping the insane scoring stats. it's simply a crazy level of performance he's maintaining for so long.

Bale had 4 assists during the "matchwinner" season at Spurs (his so called peak) and about 39 in total in La Liga while providing CR of all people. the difference in output is simply incredible. Salah covered his total CL goals in only 2 seasons.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
This line of reasoning makes zero sense. "Salah being a kid at the time' has zero to do with Bale's best season resulting in him being sort after for world record fees. For
The discussion going on is about their best season's as senior pros. Not " how they performed at the same age"
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If that was the argument made, how is it relevant that RM bought him?
 
Pickle85 said:
Why not? That last season at Spurs is probably peak Bale, no?
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I thought so, but plenty of stuff keep being said about him that makes no sense since they weren't happening during that season. so those people either don't consider it his personal best or simply think his peak lasted all the way up to 2018.

for example, in his last two seasons, his two most productive seasons at Spurs, the league was entirely about two Manchester clubs and he certainly wasn't deciding those games. so when they say he was the "ultimate big game player", they obviously mean his matches for Madrid. no other explanation.

think he scored once against us and that's it. pretty sure he only scored once against Barca in El Clasico as well. his best moments are being taken from various matches 2012-2018 so it seems his "prime" was anything but short.
 
Both brilliant players. Nothing in it for me. I love how people say it's clear one way or the other. It really isn't.
 
Bole Top said:
I thought so, but plenty of stuff keep being said about him that makes no sense since they weren't happening during that season. so those people either don't consider it his personal best or simply think his peak lasted all the way up to 2018.

for example, in his last two seasons, his two most productive seasons at Spurs, the league was entirely about two Manchester clubs and he certainly wasn't deciding those games. so when they say he was the "ultimate big game player", they obviously mean his matches for Madrid. no other explanation.

think he scored once against us and that's it. pretty sure he only scored once against Barca in El Clasico as well. his best moments are being taken from various matches 2012-2018 so it seems his "prime" was anything but short.
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I get where you're coming from but does 'peak' have to mean a single continuous period of time? I'd say that Bale was best during that last season for Spurs but went on to show 'peak Bale' at Madrid but much more sporadically. I've taken the thread to mean both players at the best they've ever played, which for me is what peak means. If longevity comes into it then it's absolutely Salah and if we're talking about who would come higher on a GOAT list then Salah would absolutely feature higher up (not that I'm saying either are in that conversation at all, btw!)
 
bosnian_red said:
Let's be honest, if this wasn't asked on a United forum (or spurs, or Everton...), it'd be pretty heavily favored towards Salah. Salah is more talented, more consistent, performed for longer, had the higher peak.

I've always been a bit of a Bale hater though. Obviously a great player and very effective, but it was a bit focused towards having a banger of a shot on him and his stupid pace. Aside from that he didn't stand out in other attributes, but those 2 were probably the best in the world so it made him a top player.
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B20 said:
44 goals and 15 assists.

Bale's best is 19+10.

I know it's not always down to numbers, but Salah's output is literally more than twice as much in their best respective seasons.

No penalties taken that season either.
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In Bale's best season he played under AVB. In a boring side, in which the only expectation was that he would do essentially everything. Salah's huge numbers came within the context of a Klopp side scoring an insane amount of goals and attacking at breakneck speed.

I can't overstate how insane Bale was in that final season for us. We were abysmal. He scored a ridiculous individual goal pretty much every week to keep us in a fight that the side had zero business being involved in. I have never since seen a team which is more reliant on one player. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell Salah gets 44+15 in that Spurs side, or anything even remotely close. He might put up similar numbers to Bale, but I personally doubt he'd have been as effective at winning football matches for us.

Salah (since peaking) has been the more committed and more fit, available player but there's no way I'd ever swap even his best version for the Bale who caused Taxi for Maicon and was a force of nature. This isn't purely a bias thing either, Kane has had more productive seasons than Bale and even when Kane was at Spurs I was always acutely aware he was never half as terrifying to the opposition as Bale was, no matter their goal and assist comparisons. Those kind of numbers are a fraction of the story.
 
bosnian_red said:
Let's be honest, if this wasn't asked on a United forum (or spurs, or Everton...), it'd be pretty heavily favored towards Salah. Salah is more talented, more consistent, performed for longer, had the higher peak.

I've always been a bit of a Bale hater though. Obviously a great player and very effective, but it was a bit focused towards having a banger of a shot on him and his stupid pace. Aside from that he didn't stand out in other attributes, but those 2 were probably the best in the world so it made him a top player.
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At Spurs he was one of the best crossers of the ball I've ever seen, immensely powerful on the ball driving either on the wing or through the centre (yeah pace contributes here, but not all fast players can drive through teams and hold off challenges).and yeah he could smash a ball about as hard as any player I've seen with that left, but his finishing ability was also incredibly varied .. he scored lovely little dinked finishes for us, curlers, free kicks... his shooting technique in general was next level good. He also became a legitimate aerial threat.

Bale's issue was he got injured a lot, as tends to be part of the package for a player of his type. And he probably didn't dedicate himself fully to the sport. Salah is/was far less explosive and dangerous but much better fitness record, more consistency and dedication to his career .. off the ball much superior as well, he wants all those tap-ins and easy tap across the box assists. Extremely different profile of players despite similar positions and who you prefer depends on what you what you value most imo, and I think you're wrong that it would be heavily favoured towards Salah on other forums. Salah in general is viewed as the definition of extreme efficiency rather than anything else.
 
MrVolante said:
In Bale's best season he played under AVB. In a boring side, in which the only expectation was that he would do essentially everything. Salah's huge numbers came within the context of a Klopp side scoring an insane amount of goals and attacking at breakneck speed.

I can't overstate how insane Bale was in that final season for us. We were abysmal. He scored a ridiculous individual goal pretty much every week to keep us in a fight that the side had zero business being involved in. I have never since seen a team which is more reliant on one player. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell Salah gets 44+15 in that Spurs side, or anything even remotely close. He might put up similar numbers to Bale, but I personally doubt he'd have been as effective at winning football matches for us.

Salah (since peaking) has been the more committed and more fit, available player but there's no way I'd ever swap even his best version for the Bale who caused Taxi for Maicon and was a force of nature. This isn't purely a bias thing either, Kane has had more productive seasons than Bale and even when Kane was at Spurs I was always acutely aware he was never half as terrifying to the opposition as Bale was, no matter their goal and assist comparisons. Those kind of numbers are a fraction of the story.
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To play devil's advocate here, maybe Spurs would have been a more exciting and well rounded side if they had someone like Salah who is a complete package over Bale.

I agree Salah wouldn't get his numbers in the Spurs side but he'd surely create more than Bale at least. Actually agree with you about his crossing ability in your next post too, but he didn't show it that much in his best ever Spurs season whereas Salah's creativity is vastly underrated.
 
MrVolante said:
At Spurs he was one of the best crossers of the ball I've ever seen, immensely powerful on the ball driving either on the wing or through the centre (yeah pace contributes here, but not all fast players can drive through teams and hold off challenges).and yeah he could smash a ball about as hard as any player I've seen with that left, but his finishing ability was also incredibly varied .. he scored lovely little dinked finishes for us, curlers, free kicks... his shooting technique in general was next level good. He also became a legitimate aerial threat.

Bale's issue was he got injured a lot, as tends to be part of the package for a player of his type. And he probably didn't dedicate himself fully to the sport. Salah is/was far less explosive and dangerous but much better fitness record, more consistency and dedication to his career .. off the ball much superior as well, he wants all those tap-ins and easy tap across the box assists. Extremely different profile of players despite similar positions and who you prefer depends on what you what you value most imo, and I think you're wrong that it would be heavily favoured towards Salah on other forums. Salah in general is viewed as the definition of extreme efficiency rather than anything else.
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Good post but Salah want far less explosive at all.
 
DennisReynolds said:
To play devil's advocate here, maybe Spurs would have been a more exciting and well rounded side if they had someone like Salah who is a complete package over Bale.

I agree Salah wouldn't get his numbers in the Spurs side but he'd surely create more than Bale at least. Actually agree with you about his crossing ability in your next post too, but he didn't show it that much in his best ever Spurs season whereas Salah's creativity is vastly underrated.
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Got moved very central in his final season with us.

And I doubt it tbh. We were a creative void under AVB. The system wasn't creating anything at all and the supporting cast were pretty bland/past it (Pochettino did his shake up a while later for a reason) so it was basically give it to the only person with any talent and hope he can launch it in to the top corner or go past 3-4 players.

I do have very fond memories of the left-sided old fashioned winger Bale who would just repeatedly humiliate his fullback and put deadly balls in to the box.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Good post but Salah want far less explosive at all.
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Probably an exaggeration. Salah is definitely an explosive player but Bale is probably the most explosive I've seen in the PL at his peak, other than someone like Adama who doesn't add any of the footbally stuff. But Salah's own acceleration and strength on the ball is pretty impressive.

Bale for me just was unbelievably exciting as a football fan. I've never been so excited for one of our players to receive the ball and probably never will again. Someone who has very, very good numbers in a similar profile (Son) has never been half as exciting on the ball to me, despite being an extremely good player. The only one I can bring up as causing the same sort of excitement was Mousa Dembele, obviously not in terms of 'he's putting this top corner!' but ability to go past players so easily due to a unique profile.
 
harms said:
Well, apparently enough to name him as one…

And many talked about him as one (or one of) for a couple of seasons, especially after the treble one.
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He's a top player no doubt the best in his position but personally I've never spoken to anyone who's even mentioned him as being the best player in the world. It's almost always attackers but fair enough to those who do.

Every few years (outside of Messi/Ronaldo) the Ballon D'or throws up a defender or midfielder who is named European player of the year. I still think it's mad that Roy Keane was never close to winning one back in the day. He was the best midifelder in the world for a time.
 
Bole Top said:
the moment he said to AVB that he feels constrained and wants to switch to a much more offensive role where he could shoot more, was the moment he became all about "moments" = shooting and goals. the moment he was fielded behind Adebayor it started being almost entirely about attacking output for him.

he's not Giggs who lost his pace, but still had the overall game and intelligence to play in central midfield for us without anyone caring how much he scored. or Di Maria. or fecking Kuyt where you appreciate how much tracking back he is doing on the wing.

Bale with underwhelming numbers in roles he played for Madrid and Spurs simply has way less value.

it was suggested here that he shouldn't be judged on goals and assists, but I can't see how. he was never a player you pay 100 mil. euros for and not care about the output.
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Yeah when he became regarded as a top player was when he became entirely about his end product. And his end product was good, not "amazing".
 
Pickle85 said:
Is this really true? I wouldn't have had Salah as quicker than Bale without the ball (or with it tbf).
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That was my impression. Salah made Varane in his physical prime look like he ran backwards he was so fast

In general Bale was more explosive I think, better acceleration and perhaps faster over shorter distances even off the ball, but mostly he just had this really powerful running style, which made him really hard to challenge. Plus he had better ball control at pace
 
stevoc said:
He's a top player no doubt the best in his position but personally I've never spoken to anyone who's even mentioned him as being the best player in the world. It's almost always attackers but fair enough to those who do.

Every few years (outside of Messi/Ronaldo) the Ballon D'or throws up a defender or midfielder who is named European player of the year. I still think it's mad that Roy Keane was never close to winning one back in the day. He was the best midifelder in the world for a time.
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Well, you’re talking to me for example! I think Rodri’s been the best player in the world over the past 2 seasons.
 
Gotta be Salah. Higher peak, did it for longer, cost less money, more technically gifted, it’s not really that close in my opinion.
 
NoPace said:
Yeah, this covers it for me. Salah if i'm starting the season, Bale if it's a one off game. Sort of like how you'd probably take Cavani over Drogba for a full season but if there was one game or a 2-legged tie to save your life you'd have a hard time not picking Drogba. Health can make this sort of observation banal, but I think it's more about who's a better flat-track bully and just is less reliant on moments of brilliance.
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This was my take, but looking back on it, I probably should have mentioned that there were games at Madrid where Bale's inability to keep the ball and just keep up technically with his teammates was a problem that really stood out, and probably why replacing him with Isco didn't hurt them in the Champions League. Bale had the sort of Bruno Fernandes problem at times where he wasn't a good retainer of possession, which I doubt would have been the case with Salah, who has a lower center of gravity and strength that makes him better at that sort of thing.
 
I’m sure I’m bringing nothing original to the table here, but I think Salah has put up the numbers more consistently over a longer period of time. Overall, I’d pick him if I was trying to build a team from scratch.

I do think Bale was more frightening as a player and probably the one I’d choose to play in a cup final (if I had to pick between the two).
 
giorno said:
That was my impression. Salah made Varane in his physical prime look like he ran backwards he was so fast

In general Bale was more explosive I think, better acceleration and perhaps faster over shorter distances even off the ball, but mostly he just had this really powerful running style, which made him really hard to challenge. Plus he had better ball control at pace
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Fair, I would have said that Salah's major strength (speed wise) lay in his acceleration as opposed to top speed. I would have had Bale ahead of him in terms of top speed but I would have them pretty similar over the first twenty yards or so. Agree that it's basically a coin flip though.
 
Have people lost their minds choosing Bale?

Bale was a phenomenon at his best and an incredible athlete, up there with easily being one of Britains greatest ever.

But his prime dwindles in comparison too Salah, substantially.

Totally different style of player, but if I was too pick them at the best? Salah 1 million times Monday too Saturday and 20 million times on Sunday.

Salahs best season, so his prime season, is a Messi Ronaldo level season for numbers, in 17/18 he played 52 games in all comps scoring 44 and assisting 15

Bales best season is half those stats

I know there’s a lot of varying factors this that and the other from teams played in ect

But there’s no way, absolutely categorically no way I’d take bale over a prime Salah, the under rating of Salah on here is mind blowing but I guess it is a United forum after all
 
Mohamed Zidan is the real Egyptian GOAT.

Bales peak season at spurs was in a side that were not anywhere near contenders and he was by far the best player in the league. Sarah best season, Liverpool were at their inhaler peak in every position.
 
FriedClams said:
Bales peak season at spurs was in a side that were not anywhere near contenders and he was by far the best player in the league. Sarah best season, Liverpool were at their inhaler peak in every position.
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Erm no, the best player in the league at the time was Luis Suarez.

And also Liverpool finished fourth in Salah's best season. Below Tottenham.
 
B20 said:
44 goals and 15 assists.

Bale's best is 19+10.

I know it's not always down to numbers, but Salah's output is literally more than twice as much in their best respective seasons.

No penalties taken that season either.
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You brought statistics which is fair enough. However I do not believe they reflect in any way the relative strength of sides they operated in to have those seasons. That is why I earlier pointed out M.O.M. awards over the course of the league season in their best year. For it goes beyond the statistics

But hey! We can agree to disagree. For me Salah will always be the better player. But his best year never rose to the level of Bale's IMHO. I'd argue only Suarez at Liverpool, Henry and CR7 have ever equaled/topped it over an epl season.
 
Much prefer to watch Bale over Salah.

Its one of those where you can look at numbers and assume Salah was the better player but for me, I've always seen Salah as a stat merchant and not very entertaining to watch. Bale was the opposite and i always enjoyed watching him playing on the LW more than when he played on the right. A proper winger with the ability to get people off their seats.... Not many players have that in their locker, but Bale was fire!
 
I think people don't really remember what Salah was like in that season. He was walking on water at times.
 
sired44 said:
Much prefer to watch Bale over Salah.

Its one of those where you can look at numbers and assume Salah was the better player but for me, I've always seen Salah as a stat merchant and not very entertaining to watch. Bale was the opposite and i always enjoyed watching him playing on the LW more than when he played on the right. A proper winger with the ability to get people off their seats.... Not many players have that in their locker, but Bale was fire!
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It’s the opposite. Bale is the one who was all about stats - barring the odd turn of pace, he’s remembered mostly for his big goals as his game outside of that was pretty one dimensional. Salah is no Messi and can often go through streaks of just offering goals but on the whole he’s got much more in his locker. He’s more likely to have a complete performance with great dribbling, assist / chance creation and scoring, than Bale.
 
TheLiverBird said:
Have people lost their minds choosing Bale?

Bale was a phenomenon at his best and an incredible athlete, up there with easily being one of Britains greatest ever.

But his prime dwindles in comparison too Salah, substantially.

Totally different style of player, but if I was too pick them at the best? Salah 1 million times Monday too Saturday and 20 million times on Sunday.

Salahs best season, so his prime season, is a Messi Ronaldo level season for numbers, in 17/18 he played 52 games in all comps scoring 44 and assisting 15

Bales best season is half those stats

I know there’s a lot of varying factors this that and the other from teams played in ect

But there’s no way, absolutely categorically no way I’d take bale over a prime Salah, the under rating of Salah on here is mind blowing but I guess it is a United forum after all
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I mean, you ridicule one comparison and then offer another, arguably an even more egregious one, saying that Salah has matched Messi & Ronaldo's productivity... when even past peak Messi (I'm not talking about 82 goals & 34 assists in one fecking season) averaged about 10 to 15 g+a more. It's not a shame not being able to match Messi and Ronaldo, one is the greatest ever and the other came as close numbers-wise as you can realistically get... just don't equate them with other simply world class players.

To be fair I'd be incredibly surprised if any Liverpool fan would've picked Bale and I'm not even talking about bias/club allegiance, watching a world class player perform week in, week out for years obviously gives you a bigger appreciation of his talent.
 
harms said:
Well, you’re talking to me for example! I think Rodri’s been the best player in the world over the past 2 seasons.
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Yes but I meant face to face conversations about football in day to day life.
 
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