They aren't centre forwards that's why. Better players though.
Premier League ain’t ready for bald Martial
- Thread starter meamth
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) talk about the proposed new stadium, season ticket prices, Sir Jim Ratcliffe and all things INEOS after the first year of their co-ownership.
They also discuss back-to-back victories vs. Real Sociedad and Leicester City - was this the best week for Amorim so far?
They aren't centre forwards that's why. Better players though.
So what's the point of mentioning them when they don't compete for same position. Martial and Cavani are our best CFs, Greenwood isn't, at least for now.
Not sure about that anymore. He outscored him last season playing from the right. Greenwood is going to be a far far better player than Martial and some might argue he now already is.
Greenwood certainly is better than Martial at any position.
Yeah but as you said he plays very well from the right. He's really effective with the ball at his feet running towards the goal. Why would you lose that by playing him at CF where he's mainly gonna be receiving the ball with his back to goal?
Greenwood is great but young and we should be trying to maximise his effectiveness. We can do this by playing him where he's most effective, not by playing him in the position we think he will end up in long term.
But Martial is MArtial. A player who just doesn't have the drive to become a top player even if he has the ability. He's had 2 and half good years in 6 for us. That's just not good enough for £50m.
Sorry, is this satire? Just repeating 'he doesn't have drive' doesn't make it true. Martial has form issues like any other player, the only reason people make it about his application is that he has resting bitch face and consequently shitty pundits/mourinho pile onto him. There's never been any actual evidence that he doesn't have the drive, beyond the myopic comments of a few armchair body language experts.
If he didn't have enough drive then he wouldn't have been our top scorer in 2019/2020. He wouldn't have been a golden boy in 2015. He would not have made it.
2015/16 he was class
2016/17 was quiet enough
2017/18 he was class until Jose brought in Sanchez to play off the left
2018/19 was bad from everyone other than the great run when Ole came in
2019/20 he was class
2020/21 wasn’t good
The cycle continues. He’ll be good this year
2016/17 was quiet enough
2017/18 he was class until Jose brought in Sanchez to play off the left
2018/19 was bad from everyone other than the great run when Ole came in
2019/20 he was class
2020/21 wasn’t good
The cycle continues. He’ll be good this year
There is evidence I'm afraid. Doesn't press the opposition well which is statistically demonstrable, had some of the lowest running stats around in comparison to other top strikers a season or two ago and I've not seen much to see that's changed, but it's not a common stat.
It's not just to do with the look on his face, he doesn't run enough. For me that's the basics of being a forward at Man Utd, all Martial wants is the ball to feet. He doesn't make a run, he doesn't work the opposition out of possession. I don't think we're expecting Dan James style headless chicken play but what Martial outputs is not remotely good enough.
How many more years is he on the 'verge' of becoming a great player for us. He has never kicked on and showed any real consistency. There is a massive difference between him and Rashford when both are off form. When Marcus is playing poorly ( back end of last season) - at least he is still trying things, attempting dribbles and tries shots. But when Martial is off form or low in confidence, he goes missing, and we may as well have 10 men on the pitch.
It is a real shame, as on his day, he has proven to be unplayable at times ( Citeh last season i think ), but unfortunately this is just not often enough, and when he is like that his attitude does not help inspire the team.
That being said, he's staying put with us this year and as always i will continue to support him as he is a red and will still moan when he puts in his laziness appearances. With Rashford being out for 3 months or so recovering, we do need his presence in the squad and hope he can grab a few goals / assists, as we are tight on attacking options.
It is a real shame, as on his day, he has proven to be unplayable at times ( Citeh last season i think ), but unfortunately this is just not often enough, and when he is like that his attitude does not help inspire the team.
That being said, he's staying put with us this year and as always i will continue to support him as he is a red and will still moan when he puts in his laziness appearances. With Rashford being out for 3 months or so recovering, we do need his presence in the squad and hope he can grab a few goals / assists, as we are tight on attacking options.
I don't think not running as much as other players is the same thing as not having drive. I just think he's sometimes out of sorts, lacking in confidence, and when that happens he looks off the pace.
Last game against Everton his touch was poor but he was still pressing as hard as anyone. I think the perception of him as lazy clouds people's judgement too much of the time.
During 2019/2020 he was as driven as anyone in our squad. His demeanour is the most important thing when they are convinced he's not driven, and that's undermined by what he's actually done for us when on the pitch. As I said, thibgs understood as form for other players are described as an attitude problem when it's Martial.
Running is a prerequisite in the modern game. A non negotiatiable. It's a running game. There are a few players that can get away with it, e.g. Ronaldo etc, but that's only because they're ridiculously productive and it's necessary they use their energy efficiently.
In my opinion it's nothing to do with form or confidence, that might be the reason he's not finishing chances or taking poor touches but it's nothing to do with running. If anything, doing the fundamentals of the game correctly are more likely to get a player into form again, ambling around is likely to increase frustration among supporters and does little to get him into positions and doesn't help our ability to the win the ball.
He's not the only one, so I'm not just picking on him, some of Rashford's workrate also has taken a hit, which may or may not be associated with injury, while Cavani's stats set the standard. But it's a theme with Martial, even Ole came out after a game against Leeds claiming he wanted to see more running from Martial and that he'd set a benchmark within that game. Why would he do that if it wasn't a legitimate concern? Call it drive, laziness, or simply a lack of doing things that are necessary, however it's spun it's not good.
The attitude thing has always been bullshit, and just stems from him not smiling and then a random bad run of form. People also really discount how fecking good he was in the lockdown season, he was our best player and scored 20+ goals as a striker without taking pens. I don't know if he'll get back to that form (I really hope so), but it's sad to see so many just make up shit to get mad about with him.
Tbf he had purple patches in his first season and also just before we got Sanchez in 17-18 when him and Rashford were trading appearances and goals on the left.
When Martial is out of form he loses a little energy. It's fair to push him on that. But that is very different from questioning his commitment or calling him lazy, as you do here.
People act like Martial is Ozil, which is just miles away from being true. When he is on form and hungry he is a really effective presser. He's scored multiple goals for us by pressing from the front, winning the ball and running through. That doesn't happen if you're lazy.
People don't flag up Greenwood's lack of effective pressing, and in fact they say that because Martial doesn't press Greenwood should start at 9 instead of him, even though at this stage in his career Greenwood is worse at pressing than Martial. I'm not saying this to criticise Greenwood - it's just not a strength to his game - I'm just saying it to flag up how the view of Martial as lazy or not driven, or even not running enough, is more based on assumptions than how he has played during his time for us.
Yeah exactly, I'm just sick of people on this site acting like he's some championship level striker who we can't afford to keep because he'll stink up the squad with his bad attitude. He came to us as a teenager when we were shit, he performed really well and was then treated terribly by Mourinho, and he's fought his way back into our starting lineup multiple times now. It's moronic to say he doesn't have drive, and just seems reflective of this baseless perception that he's a showpony.
Sure, maybe he won't be good enough to be a long-term option, but why not respect one of our best players over the last 6 years instead of constantly undermining him?
He also said he was playing with niggling injuries last season, making it difficult for him.
Let's see this season. His general play last season has always been good like 2019/2020 season, it's just the end product were disappointing.
It could be worth a try, although I wouldn't be surprised if he was to get a spinal injury from the clippers touching his head! Better yet, his kneecap would probably fall off when getting out of his car to go into the barbers in the first place!
Let's put it that way: I'd be surprised if he plays (justified) as our main striker this season. I just don't think he can make that final step up and become a reliable, consistent forward.
I assume he'll be sold next summer.
I assume he'll be sold next summer.
That's the key difference - Greenwood plays brilliantly from the right, and gets lost when played as a CF. He's a very different player at CF for now and we need to recognise that. Most times, he actually vacates the position. Martial at his worst (which was almost all of last season!) would at least be a stationary body there annoyingly, but he'd hold up the ball from time to time, at his best, he's a force to be reckoned with.
With Greenwood, there's just a gaping hole in that area of the field, and I'd rather we only played him at CF for the time being when a game is already won if the club actually do intend for him to develop and end up as a CF.
Considering we tend to manage Cavani carefully, if Martial is let go, we have to bring in a good CF replacement. Personally though, I don't see him going anywhere.
Agreed. Even during pre season vs Everton we can see the limitations from Greenwood when asked to play as a pure CF.
He is not ready yet.
Having bald Martial and Cavani is great as long as he can rediscover his 19/20 form.
People need to give their head a good wobble if they think Greenwood is currently a CF. He doesn’t have the physique for it. With Greenwood’s body type you need great balance to play the role but he doesn’t have that. He will get bullied and not picked off the ball. He will be here for years let him keep growing as a player.
But is Bald Martial ready for the Premier League?
I see one basic issue with him. He rarely gets to the end of a cross in the 6 yard box. He doesn't even attempt.
The 2nd coming of bald Rooney.
In seriousness, he is back in training.
What is your expectation for Martial this season?
A better header this year
I certainly hope so, but I don't think he's there yet, and it's also worth remembering that Martial's debut season, when he was approximately the same age as Greenwood now (correct me if I'm way off on that), was better than anything we've seen from Greenwood so far, in my opinion.
Surprised you say this because it's one of the most infuriating things about Martial, speaking as someone who's always rated him - he keeps randomly walking over to the left wing and standing still there, completely vacating the box.
Genuinely think he just doesn't understand where he has to be as a striker, especially in games against weaker teams. He's had some incredible performances as a focal point when we're playing on the break - three times against Man City in the last two seasons, most notably.
Only a cameo but looked MUCH sharper than he did against Everton. Good stuff.
I'd say he's determined to prove he's still our number 9, he's a far better player than he showed last season.
Seems like it was the other way around...
Pogba is unplayable at times!
If Greenwood can keep moving like that in the box then Sancho goes right and Greenwood moves central. No room for a player like Martial, whatever his hairstyle.
The nullity
Bald Martial plays like a 50 year-old pensioner. Appalling player.
He looks physically done. Don’t know the extent of his injury but he clearly struggled to turn/get going every time.
Didn't look good at all but I don't like shitting on our players when they are in a bad state.
I wonder what the excuses will be this time 
"He's still unfit"
"He was POTY the season before last you know"
"He's still unfit"
"He was POTY the season before last you know"
He is defo unfit. It shows.I wonder what the excuses will be this time
"He's still unfit"
"He was POTY the season before last you know"