Pre Premier League Draft Round 1 - Edgar Allan Pillow vs Indnyc

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak?

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

2mufc0

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This is a Pre Premier League draft from 1971/72 to 1991/92 where managers assemble their squads by selecting players based on their playing performance during this time period only. Performances that fall outside this time period should not be considered. Neither should the players performance for their country/international tournaments be considered. As in any team, team tactics and balance also play a part.

Hence please carefully consider the abovesaid factors and evaluate the merits of both teams before voting for the team which in your opinion is likelier to win the match.

TEAM EAP

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VS

TEAM INDNYC

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TEAM EAP TACTICS

Formation:

Slightly lopsided 4-3-3

Player Roles:

Neville Southall - Balanced/Normal

Clayton Blackmore - Balanced/Attacking Left back. Will try to join attack when we have the ball.
Mark Lawrenson - Stopper
Paul McGrath - Ball player
Phil Neal - Balanced/Defensive. Primarily tasked to defend against Gray. Will join in attack occasionally as situation permits.

Peter Reid - Best pure DM (Souness asde) in this draft to primarily break up attacks. His positioning will help ball retention and circulation greatly.
Arnold Muhren - Primary midfield Playmaker. May drift along left flank.
Tony Currie - Secondary midfield Playmaker. Will be more attacking and move up to support the forwards.

Pat Nevin - Free role winger/forward. Will drift across both flanks overloading defense.
Alan Smith - Left sided forward. Support striker. Will drop back or drift left.
Andy Gray - Primary Striker. Leading the line.

Click here to know a bit more on the profiles of the players


Why I'll win:

+ A super solid defence with the brilliance of McGrath and solidity of Lawrenson will be adequate. Phil Neal is probably the best RB in this draft and will keep Gray under control.
+ A 3 man midfield designed to hold possession will ensure my team see most of the ball.
+ Two excellent playmakers in middle ensure creativity and continuous supply of passes to my forwards.
+ Free role winger in Nevin ensures his pace and trickery will be hard to predict and will overload defenses.
+ A complimentary and deadly strike duo. 3 Golden Boots among them will ensure that they will make the most of their chances.

With the extra man in midfield plus a drifting Nevin and Alan Smith dropping back, it surely will be too much for my opponent's defence to handle. Coupled with a strong defence and dominance in possession will ensure I come out on tops.

TEAM INDNYC TACTICS

Tactics

The team is set up similar to the 1980 European Cup final winning Nottingham Forest team. They had to play this formation because of injuries but ended up becoming the template for 4-3-3 in the UK

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...ham_Forest_vs_Hamburger_SV_1980-05-28.svg.png

The team is set up as 4-3-3 with a good defense, balanced midfield and attack with players playing in their familiar positions.

Defense: We have arguably the best goalkeeper in the draft in Shilton. In front of him we have Roy McFarland who many consider to be one of the best English defenders of all time. He is paired with Phil Thompson, a pillar for the great Liverpool team of the 70’s and early 80’s. Both are comfortable on the ball with McFarland being great in the air as well.

They are supported by England’s 1982 World Cup captain Mike Mills on the left. He was part of the Ipswich team that won the 1981 Uefa Cup and came so close to winning the title twice in 81 and 82. He was able to play on both flanks but preferred the left. On the right we have Kenny Swain, a guy so versatile that he could play as a striker, midfielder or fullback. He switched to playing as an attacking right fullback for Aston Villa that went on to win the European Cup as well as the English League championship.

Midfield : Our 3 man midfield is anchored by John McGovern, captain of Nottingham Forests greatest team winning the English league and back to back European championship. He was the key man for Brian Clough. Unassuming guy who made the midfield tick. He played with Clough in all his successful teams including the great Derby team to win the English Championship. Gunter Netzer said this about his performance in the 1979 European semifinals after Forest knocked out Cologne



He is supported by his midfield parter in crime, Ian Bowyer. Another unspectacular player who was efficient as a B2B midfielder and was instrumental in scoring goals at crucial times for Forest during their European winning run.

Sir Trevor Brooking completes our midfield trio. It is unfortunate that Assists were not recorded back then as he was known to be a magician with the ball at his feet. He could score, assist and be the creative influence of the team. He adds fluidity to the team and is given more license to attack with McGovern and Bowyer besides him.

Attack : Bob Latchford leads the line for us in attack. 138 goals in 289 games for Everton, the guy was a Goodison legend. He scored 30 goals in the league during the 1977/1978 season. During his time with Everton, he consistently was amongst the top goal scorers in the league. On his day, he could absolutely bully any defense.

Eddie Gray is on the left wing. The guy that made the great Leeds team attack tick, he had the pace and dribbling skills that were unmatched in the league. Voted the 3rd greatest Leeds player of all time, he tormented defenders. Don Revie once said, He is perfect for both creating as well as scoring goals in the team.

The attack is completed by yet another Forest star, Martin O’Neill. He missed out on the 1979 European final due to injury but had played most of Forests earlier matches. He played the 1980 final. Old fashioned winger who will stay wide and create width for the team

 
Can you explain the role you assigned to Alan Smith in a little more detail?
 
Very similar teams. No obvious gaps in tactics or players.

I believe I have an edge in player quality here all across the field.

- McGrath/Lawrenson is the better CB duo and Phil Neal is the best RB of the draft.
- Muhren/Currie are have more flair and creativity than my opponents midfield.
- Smith and Gray have 3 Golden Boots and so have a better goal threat.

oneniltothearsenal said:
Can you explain the role you assigned to Alan Smith in a little more detail?
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Nothing special. It's a free role support striker. He is a left footed player, so I've give him freedom to roam about that side of the pitch. He's not tasked to provide width.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Very similar teams. No obvious gaps in tactics or players.

I believe I have an edge in player quality here all across the field.

- McGrath/Lawrenson is the better CB duo and Phil Neal is the best RB of the draft.
- Muhren/Currie are have more flair and creativity than my opponents midfield.
- Smith and Gray have 3 Golden Boots and so have a better goal threat.



Nothing special. It's a free role support striker. He is a left footed player, so I've give him freedom to roam about that side of the pitch. He's not tasked to provide width.
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Ah ok so Nevin is providing width on both sides and Smith is shifting around the inside right to inside left behind Gray? Any reason you didn't just play 442 ?
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Ah ok so Nevin is providing width on both sides and Smith is shifting around the inside right to inside left behind Gray? Any reason you didn't just play 442 ?
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Don't think he has a left winger.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Ah ok so Nevin is providing width on both sides and Smith is shifting around the inside right to inside left behind Gray? Any reason you didn't just play 442 ?
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I wanted to build around Muhren who gave so much flair to the Ipswich team. So wanted to build a side that is more flexible tactically and built to play with more flair. He's best used as a LCM, so went with a 4-3-3. I had Currie in mind for a long time after Thijssen got picked, but had other priorities to fill. You have two flamboyant players which will make that midfield a joy to watch. With Reid taking a bulk of defensive duties, they will be far more free than in a 4-4-2.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I wanted to build around Muhren who gave so much flair to the Ipswich team. So wanted to build a side that is more flexible tactically and built to play with more flair. He's best used as a LCM, so went with a 4-3-3. I had Currie in mind for a long time after Thijssen got picked, but had other priorities to fill. You have two flamboyant players which will make that midfield a joy to watch. With Reid taking a bulk of defensive duties, they will be far more free than in a 4-4-2.
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And because you picked two right wingers :p
 
2mufc0 said:
Don't think he has a left winger.
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Blackmore is the more attacking of the fullbacks. Muhren can play both flanks, but is better on the left. Smith is a left footed striker and Nevin can play both flanks and is in a free role.

oneniltothearsenal said:
Muhren can't play LM?
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Ofc, he can. He is comfortable out wide and will drift to exploit spaces.
 
2mufc0 said:
Phil Neal is probably the best RB in this draft and will keep Gray under control.
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Hmm think that's McGrain with all due respect. Jardine too was a class act. Should be a fine duel though, two top players in the draft going head to head.

2mufc0 said:
The attack is completed by yet another Forest star, Martin O’Neill. He missed out on the 1979 European final due to injury but had played most of Forests earlier matches. He played the 1980 final. Old fashioned winger who will stay wide and create width for the team
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Here mixed stories on that one, between O'Neill getting dropped for Francis and him carrying an injury. Still, fine player and should cause Blackmore some problems while helping out with Muhren.

Re Nevin - mostly played on the right for sure, but there's not much about him to suggest he wouldn't cope on the left or in a floating attacking role. That nimble style tends to be quite flexible.
 
Gio said:
Re Nevin - mostly played on the right for sure, but there's not much about him to suggest he wouldn't cope on the left or in a floating attacking role. That nimble style tends to be quite flexible.
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For Chelsea and everton mostly. For tranmere, he played left wing. Unfortunately I can't post videos from work, but there are a couple of goal videos in YT that shows how much he comfortable he is through the middle. Very quick and tricky player esp in a floating role, he'd be difficult to mark out.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Very similar teams. No obvious gaps in tactics or players.

I believe I have an edge in player quality here all across the field.

- McGrath/Lawrenson is the better CB duo and Phil Neal is the best RB of the draft.
- Muhren/Currie are have more flair and creativity than my opponents midfield.
- Smith and Gray have 3 Golden Boots and so have a better goal threat.
Click to expand...

I would respectfully disagree on this. I don’t think Thompson is any lesser if not better than Lawrenson and McFarland was one of the best in the business. His partnership with Colin Todd was one of the best partnerships of all time. In fact here are two sources that claim he was amongst the best English defenders 2nd only to Bobby Moore. Of course the links are from 2007 and 2009 so players like Rio and Terry aren’t given the same respect as they are now

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2317994/The-best-20-England-defenders.html

https://stirlosports.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/the-50-greatest-england-players-of-all-time/ (Rated No. 27 on the greatest english players of all time)
 
Gio said:
Hmm think that's McGrain with all due respect. Jardine too was a class act. Should be a fine duel though, two top players in the draft going head to head.


Here mixed stories on that one, between O'Neill getting dropped for Francis and him carrying an injury. Still, fine player and should cause Blackmore some problems while helping out with Muhren.

Re Nevin - mostly played on the right for sure, but there's not much about him to suggest he wouldn't cope on the left or in a floating attacking role. That nimble style tends to be quite flexible.
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Yeah.. Francis wasn't eligible to play until the final anyway so don't know for sure if O'Neill was dropped or injured. But he still was a key man for them until the final and of course through the 1980 campaign
 
Regarding the formation, i was caught a bit off guard as i expected Muhren to play slightly wider but it does give us a slight favorable situation in terms of numbers on the right.

An interesting battle is going to be Eddie Gray vs. Phil Neal. Both excellent players. At the top of his game, he could do this
 
Question on Muhren. Didn't he play a more defensive role in the Ipswich team with John Wark being the more offensive player?
 
Indnyc said:
I would respectfully disagree on this. I don’t think Thompson is any lesser if not better than Lawrenson and McFarland was one of the best in the business. His partnership with Colin Todd was one of the best partnerships of all time. In fact here are two sources that claim he was amongst the best English defenders 2nd only to Bobby Moore. Of course the links are from 2007 and 2009 so players like Rio and Terry aren’t given the same respect as they are now
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I'd rate them them as below. Nothing much separates Lawrenson and Thompson and I'd put them on similar tier, but McGrath is the best of the lot. As a partnership, I still rate my duo higher.

1) Paul McGrath
2) Roy McFarland
3) Phil Thompson / Mark Lawrenson

Indnyc said:
Question on Muhren. Didn't he play a more defensive role in the Ipswich team with John Wark being the more offensive player?
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Same here. Currie is the more attacking of the duo as I mention in OP and Muhren will pull strings from the middle/wide.
 
Tony Currie:

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Currie was an entertainer as well as a footballer; one of the first to grasp that folk who paid hard-earned money to file through the turnstiles deserved something more than rigid tactics, deadly serious demeanours and boring nil nil draws. The fact he excelled in an era of proper hatchet men, when some tackles would today have carried a charge of GBH, is testament to both his technical prowess and bravery.

Currie, now aged 68, actually started-out as a centre-forward before, in what proved to be an inspired move, being handed a midfield role.

Len badger said:
To play alongside him, well, what can I say? It was an absolute joy, a privilege. TC was that good, so talented, he could have played anywhere on the pitch and been brilliant. Seriously, that’s how much talent he had. You could have put him in goal and I reckon he’d have been making save after save. What I love about TC was, not only his sheer quality but fact he was also such an entertainer. I remember one game when we were winning and he got the ball, stopped, and blew the crowd a kiss. Then he was off again, doing what he does best. When we were out there together, he’d always be shouting ‘Just give me the ball.’ There’d be four or five players around him, you’d ping it in and he’d leave them standing there.
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Few people who saw Tony Currie play for Leeds United would deny that he was one of the most skilful players ever to grace Elland Road.He was arguably the finest midfielder of his generation and the obvious replacement for Johnny Giles when Don Revie's great side began to break up in the mid-seventies.

Tony Currie was a showman who stood out even in an era of larger-than-life entertainers. He was a crowd pleaser whose extravagant skills and buccaneering style made him a hero to a generation of Sheffield United fans.Going up into the top-flight was one of three great personal peaks in Currie's career. He was 21 at the time, and he dictated the tempo of a team that always tried to go forward when he was pulling the strings. Blades fans will tell you it was Currie who conducted the orchestra from midfield, spotting the openings and spraying the passes that captured their imaginations. He fitted the times perfectly.n full flow he was a memorable sight. Fleet-footed with a powerful physique, long blond hair flying in his own slipstream, shirt flapping outside his shorts, he made the ball do exactly what he wanted. His game combined speed and strength with visionary passing over any distance. He could bend a moving or dead ball spectacularly, coax it with subtle chips and flicks or hammer it into the net with venomous force before blowing kisses to the crowd. Yet there was nothing of the prima donna about him: he protected his talent with a robust physical presence and could win the ball as well as use it. He was a gladiator;

Leeds were at Highbury on the opening day of the 1978-79 season against Arsenal, and on the sunlit, manicured pitch, two artists were at work, one for either side. Liam Brady and Currie were determined to outdo each other in a compelling battle of creative wits. Brady curled home an unstoppable effort from 20 yards for the Gunners. In response, ‘TC’ took the ball almost to the goal-line, shaped to cross then lashed it into the net from the tightest of angles. Even a packed North Bank felt obliged to applaud.
 
Sir Trevor Brooking

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Brooking was an outstanding footballer and a one-club man who was a member of both the 1975 and 1980 FA Cup winning sides, famously scoring the winner in the '80 final against Arsenal by heading in from close range -- a feat he has probably been reminded of every day since. Brooking played 647 matches in league and cup for the Hammers scoring 102 goals in the process and creating untold more. If the 'assist' had been a viable statistic when Brooking played, then his records might be even more impressive.



He'll constantly drive through the midfield along with Bowyer to both create for Latchford upfront and score goals
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
3 very good CHs and then there's McGrath. Not enough to tip your vote? :lol:
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Ahuh, it's hard to argue against that tbf.

But the Forest combo works well in MF too .... Brooking fits.

I'd definitely have gone 442 with that team. Muhren can play wide (he did do) then you'd have Smith/Gray as a clear double act, which would fit ... Smith 'replacing' Sharpe as Gray's partner?
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
I'd definitely have gone 442 with that team. Muhren can play wide (he did do) then you'd have Smith/Gray as a clear double act, which would fit ... Smith 'replacing' Sharpe as Gray's partner?
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It definitely will work. But remember Muhren was a triple European champion two with Ajax and one with Ipswich. He thrives on flair and possession based creativity and 4-3-3 offers a far better platform of getting that than a 4-4-2 imo. I'd say he's that stand out midfielder in the Park. He'd drift all over the place and run this game like clockwork.

Smith/Gray are still the double act. Smith was natually a left footed left sided player though he comfortable all over the box. He's also a very creative forward who can drop deep and spring a one-touch pass to Gray/Nevin. Then you have Currie who was a forward converted to midfielder moving up when we have possession.

Plus I just have more goals with Smith/Gray than his front 3. Add in Nevin and my goal threat is defintely higher.

And then McGrath can be counted on to tip the scales.
 
Like I say, McGrath aside (who was a God), it's tough.

I actually think both CH pairings are capable of dealing with the forwards they're up against (not saying they definitely won't concede, just that they're def capable) while both sides natural/best chance of width will come up against the better FB on the other side.

Will think on it, open to persuasion.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Tough.

Great goalies, four very good CHs, one very good FB each (:angel:), like Muhren/Reid but like Gray.

More explanations of how your side will attack/score.....

PS, @Indnyc ... what was Netzer saying about McGovern? Looks like a gap/wording didn't copy into op?
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Sorry I have been away most of the day with bad connectivity. Netzer said

Who is this McGovern? Never heard of him but he ran the game
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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Like I say, McGrath aside (who was a God), it's tough.

I actually think both CH pairings are capable of dealing with the forwards they're up against (not saying they definitely won't concede, just that they're def capable) while both sides natural/best chance of width will come up against the better FB on the other side.

Will think on it, open to persuasion.
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The central areas are pretty much even and it comes down to preference between the playmaking abilities of Brooking/Bowyer or Muhren/Currie

In the wide areas, I have much better players. Edgar depends on Muhren to go wide on the left (leaving gaps in the middle ) but I have Eddie Gray there who will torment any defense from this era.

Gray and Smith were also old fashioned strikers who liked crosses coming in (not doubting the ability of the two, especially Smith) but the edgars team is geared towards play making from the center rather than wing play.
 
Would also note that Clayton Blackmore was a good utility player but wasn’t capable of running most of the left flank by himself.
Joined United in 1982, It wasn’t until 1988 when he got regular game time.

On the other hand, my left back is Mike Mills who had competition from Kenny Sansom (Probably the best Left back in the draft) and Phil Neal but still managed to get over 42 appearances for England, captained them at the 1982 World Cup and was the captain of the Ipswich team that won the Uefa cup
 
Bob Latchford

Old Everton fans would remember this guy. 30 goals in a season in 1977/78 was the top scorer in the league.

Included in the 1975 PFA team of the year as well. The guy scored 138 goals in 268 club matches playing for Everton at a time when they were worse than they are now.

Compare that to Smith who scored 76 goals in 200 league appearances for Leicester and 86 goals in 264 league appearances for Arsenal or Andy Gray who scored 185 goals in 513 appearances.

My lone striker has a much better scoring rate than either of the Edgar’s front two and is playing in a system tailored to his strengths
 
Indnyc said:
Question on Muhren. Didn't he play a more defensive role in the Ipswich team with John Wark being the more offensive player?
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I've watched a little bit of that Ipswich team after picking Wark. They seem to have played a flat midfield three out of possession, with Wark central, Muhren left of centre and Thijssen right of centre. I wouldn't class Muhren's role as more defensive from what I've seen - all three attacked and defended, with Wark regularly being back in his own penalty area defending. Wark and Thijssen did break forward more, but that seemed more a product of Muhren generally being the one on the ball orchestrating things, as he was the best passer/playmaker of the trio. He looks well-utilised here. Not sure about Alan Smith as a withdrawn striker though, as I remember him as a proper, line-leading centre forward. 4-4-2 looks the more natural set up for Edgar's forwards.
 
Bumping this

Final arguments

a) I have the advantage over EAP in the wider areas

b) My tactics suit my main striker

c) Edgars lopsided team lacks a balanc attack with his strikers having a worse goal scoring rate than mine
 
I thought losing by a vote would be the worst way to lose. Found a worse way

Average Pick time EAP - 30.83
Average Pick time Indnyc - 31.33

Congratulations @Edgar Allan Pillow
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
By 30 seconds, ffs! :lol: Hard luck @Indnyc this was quite close and really a tough matchup.
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:lol:.. You put together a great team as well.. I did want to give some time to the great Nottingham team as they’ll never be picked in any drafts.. Glad I got to do that..

All the best for the next round. I can now focus on running the draft :)
 
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