No, but he was left out of the England squad because of that racist abuse, and the fact that the FA were too spineless to act on it (and so kept John Terry in the team instead).
"Potential Formation of the Black Players FA" thread.
- Thread starter Count Orduck
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No, but he was left out of the England squad because of that racist abuse, and the fact that the FA were too spineless to act on it (and so kept John Terry in the team instead).
Because when they do, like Evra and Anton Ferdinand, they subjected to even more vitriol from people from racist tendencies.
And more importantly, that vitriolic bile is not worth the double whammy victimisation they get when they do not get their proven grievances appropriately resolved by the FA.
Please tell me you are winding me up.
Yeah, its pretty disgraceful that Anton and Patrice have actually had to put up with jeers over the last years from certain fans in relation to the incidents, call it tribalism gone mad but it's just not acceptable.
Yes it is, but it's kind of jarring that it's almost like Anton has had take a back seat in recent weeks.
If you chose to answer, fact based only please? Ok I got that.
Because when they do, like Evra and Anton Ferdinand, they subjected to even more vitriol from people from racist tendencies.
And more importantly, that vitriolic bile is not worth the double whammy victimisation they get when they do not get their proven grievances appropriately resolved by the FA.
Please tell me you are winding me up.
I thought you only dealt with facts? You even went as far to put someone down for not using them, but then throw in some of your own for good measure. A tad hypocritical don't you think?
The thing is I think there's more problems then just racism. Perhaps a separate group will help voice opinions a bit better, although I agree with previous posters that maybe a modified version of Kick it Out is needed, with more player involvement from all backgrounds. I don't think racism will just exist towards black players it will most likely be felt by asian players as well and as others have said it could work against discrimination of all kinds such as gay players within the sport.
But there's a whole shift that is needed here. It's not just about racism, you have the problems that atmospheres at games can be so vile, just look at the Leeds game recently where Kirkland got struck by a fan, that was terrible but the atmosphere itself was terrible, between the fans and towards the players/managers/refs. Passion is fine but I think the line gets crossed too often between supporting your team and abuse.
For me it's all interlinked. I don't think you can really stamp out one thing such as racism without looking at the other areas. If they can really look at all areas I think it can make things better.
So perhaps a new form of kick it out is needed, getting more players/ex pro's involved and maybe even supporters representatives who can give a better insight in to the fans and the problems there.
Then the FA themselves need to be more consistent. Sometimes they're stern, sometimes they're not. Why was Suarez given 8 games when Terry only 4, does repetition make it that much worse? Combined their suspension is still less than Barton's I think. And in general other things need to be looked at not just those, FA punishments don't always seem to be consistent. The problems aren't just with the FA but with UEFA and FIFA, but if we can get our end sorted hopefully they'll follow suit.
But there's a whole shift that is needed here. It's not just about racism, you have the problems that atmospheres at games can be so vile, just look at the Leeds game recently where Kirkland got struck by a fan, that was terrible but the atmosphere itself was terrible, between the fans and towards the players/managers/refs. Passion is fine but I think the line gets crossed too often between supporting your team and abuse.
For me it's all interlinked. I don't think you can really stamp out one thing such as racism without looking at the other areas. If they can really look at all areas I think it can make things better.
So perhaps a new form of kick it out is needed, getting more players/ex pro's involved and maybe even supporters representatives who can give a better insight in to the fans and the problems there.
Then the FA themselves need to be more consistent. Sometimes they're stern, sometimes they're not. Why was Suarez given 8 games when Terry only 4, does repetition make it that much worse? Combined their suspension is still less than Barton's I think. And in general other things need to be looked at not just those, FA punishments don't always seem to be consistent. The problems aren't just with the FA but with UEFA and FIFA, but if we can get our end sorted hopefully they'll follow suit.
I am left feeling incredulous at what you are writing!! However, I sincerely apologise for my disrespect and making you feel that way.
Im assuming you consider racism in football (and society) in modern day Britain as simply unacceptable.
The current systems and rules of conduct are obviously not working. Given that racism in English football clearly still exists, what are players subjected to racist abuse meant to do, in your opinion?
Im interested in your opinion on a practical solution and how that is enforced in the quickest timeframe possible.
errr .... are you telling me that Evra and A.Ferdinand have not been subjected to further abuse simply because they reported to the FA that they were, proven beyond reasonable doubt, racially abused?
How is that not factual?
I cant be bothered, but a simple 10 second google search would provide me my factual evidence of this.
I agree with the idea of their being a discriminatory body which deals with all races, promotes gender equality in the game and also works towards a time where gay footballers do not have to hide their private lives. If this body has smaller parts focusing on each issue then fair enough but making a whole body solely for black players wouldn't be acceptable.
Tribalism in the game and self interest can cause clubs to act in the most irrational of ways, with little thought for how it can be interpreted from the outside.
If John Terry was in his late teens or early twenties, might they ahe ditched him?
The Premier League could draw up a code of conduct for its members.
As an aside, i do wonder if such antics as the Liverpool Suarez t-shirts should be classed as a punishable offences, brining the game into disrepute through mockery of the verdict or some such.
Ok so what do the people advocating the idea of a black players FA and were so in favor of it have to think about this?
errr .... are you telling me that Evra and A.Ferdinand have not been subjected to abuse simply because they reported to the FA that they were proven, beyond reasonable doubt, to be racially abused?
How is that not factual?
I cant be bothered, but a simple 10 second google search would provide me my factual evidence of this.
You said that they are subject to EVEN more racial abuse from people with racial tendencies, no?
People with racial tendencies would racially abuse Anoton/Evra/Rio whether or not this had kicked off. So the FACT that YOU say that they would be subject to more racial abuse is your opinion and not fact.
Your opinion might very well be true, but you pulled someone up for not using facts and thought that since you set the precedent, then you should at least carry it through in your own posts.
I can't believe this idea is even worth 3 pages of posts...
Or maybe that's the sole point of throwing it out there: creating debate
Or maybe that's the sole point of throwing it out there: creating debate
I think the more pertinent question is; why was football left to actually punish a guilty person?
With football being such a global game these days, it is a pity that [as far as we know] neither the PFA nor the protesting players have addressed the playing/supporting experience in their recommendations.
It must however be demoralising to see FIFA award the World Cup to countries like Russia and Qatar with no preconditions concerning discrimination, that sort of thing reserved for commercial rights and profits.
It must however be demoralising to see FIFA award the World Cup to countries like Russia and Qatar with no preconditions concerning discrimination, that sort of thing reserved for commercial rights and profits.
Mike's on the money as per usual.
Still waiting for OTB mind.
Still waiting for OTB mind.
It's a stupid idea, a Black Players FA? It means nothing.
A Black Players PFA, a Black Players Union, much more likely
A Black Players PFA, a Black Players Union, much more likely
I'm black but the thought of Black Players FA makes me embarrassed.Black people cannot use the racist card on hand when they're (rightly or wrongly) victims and on the other hand act like racists.
Putting together a focus group/pressure group is not being racist.
I was talking in general in the second part of my post.Sorry if I didn't initially make it clear.
What would be more productive is getting more minorities involved in the actual FA, so it's less of a retarded old white mens club.
What would go even further is if we had an FA with a better mental capacity than a chimp on acid anyway.
What would go even further is if we had an FA with a better mental capacity than a chimp on acid anyway.
so it looks like this Federation Of Black Players (or whatever it was supposed to be) is a nonstarter anyway?
Both Roberts and Rio have distanced themselves from anything like that - which is good to hear because it is a clearly a stupid idea.
Both Roberts and Rio have distanced themselves from anything like that - which is good to hear because it is a clearly a stupid idea.
OK, I'll repeat what I said in reply to post in the RAWK thread (post No: 2759) :
It is not racist then to have a white only PFA?
At the moment there is only one non-white on the PFA board. In fact, apart from the deputy chief executive, the rest of the PFA leading staff are all caucasian. How can they be parity or comprehension of black players experiences and grievances when there is such discrepancy within the organisation itself? Its like a male police force trying to handle rape cases in the near past. Male officers just didn't "get it". They were insensitive to the point of being indifferent. Women wanted serious and heavy sentences handled out to rapists, most men believed that a slap on the wrist was enough. How can an average caucasian under racism? They can't!
Rio Ferdinand got (what was it) an 8 month ban for MISSING a drug test. Suarez got an 8 game ban and Terry a 4 match ban for racism.
Simply put, caucasians just don't get racism - even those who sympathise with black players who experience it. In all honesty, how many sympathisers would for example, agree with an 8 month or one season ban on a United player if he made a racist remark?
It is not racist then to have a white only PFA?
At the moment there is only one non-white on the PFA board. In fact, apart from the deputy chief executive, the rest of the PFA leading staff are all caucasian. How can they be parity or comprehension of black players experiences and grievances when there is such discrepancy within the organisation itself? Its like a male police force trying to handle rape cases in the near past. Male officers just didn't "get it". They were insensitive to the point of being indifferent. Women wanted serious and heavy sentences handled out to rapists, most men believed that a slap on the wrist was enough. How can an average caucasian under racism? They can't!
Rio Ferdinand got (what was it) an 8 month ban for MISSING a drug test. Suarez got an 8 game ban and Terry a 4 match ban for racism.
Simply put, caucasians just don't get racism - even those who sympathise with black players who experience it. In all honesty, how many sympathisers would for example, agree with an 8 month or one season ban on a United player if he made a racist remark?
One of the most ridiculous ideas I have ever heard.
but thats not true - both the current (Carlilse) and former (Powell) chairmen of the PFA are black, plus there are at least 2 other committee members who are black (Roberts and Moore). There could even be more but I am not entirely sure who is on the committee at the moment.
Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Footballers'_Association#Key_personnel
It's a terrible idea. Look people can't even get religion right. It's borderline stupidty to create this sort of fraction. It's not even worth debating, because it's the stupidest thing i've ever heard. There is an issue, absolutely but this isn't about giving people power - it's meant to be about racism and the way to beat it is to fix the problems (and there clearly are problems) and stick together. Stick together......Stupidity will win though because people are stupid.
Your point is kind of valid about the people at the top (I dont think it is particularly important who the secretary or IT guy is though), and really you need to check the Management Committee section for a complete picture:
http://www.thepfa.com/members/mancom/-1/1/
In fact there is also Zeshan Reman on there, I suppose to represent the Asian view.