[jeff_goldblum]

Mount and Bruno are good defensively for attacking midfielders, but their defensive attributes are fitness and workrate rather than any sort of positional nous. When Wolves broke they were generally the wrong side and only Casemiro was in the middle to keep things solid and he's simply not mobile enough these days to handle quick players running at him. We were constantly overwhelmed and probably should have switched to a 4-2-3-1 to give him more support, but given how poor our front three were I can see why he was reticent to take Bruno or Mount off and lose the little creativity we had.

Rashford had an awful game individually on top of being shoehorned into a role he's not suited for. Garnacho was poor too and Antony was so-so, so we had very little going for us up top until Sancho came on. Garnacho particularly needs to realise that playing from the start is a very different proposition from coming on late against tired defenders and adapt/improve his game accordingly.

The final part of the puzzle was simply that Wolves played out of their skin. They won their 50/50s, defended well one-on-one (although Rashford and Garnacho made that very simple for them) and executed their gameplan well, exploiting Bruno and Mount's positioning and Casemiro's lack of mobility to break through the middle and run at our back line over and over again.

The positive I take from the game, aside from the three points, is that Ten Hag clearly acknowledges the weaknesses we saw last night with the signings he's made/is making, even if he won't change his approach to mitigate them in the short term. There's a reason he's been giving Mainoo minutes in pre-season and is pushing to sign Amrabat. There's also reason he pushed to sign Højlund. In the absence of those players, he put a team out with the intention of playing the way he wants to when we're at full strength. We lost the first two games of last season doing exactly the same thing.

 

[gerdm07]

Is this sarcasm? Genuine question. Because I would say they're the exact opposite. They have no idea how to control a game between them.

No. Casemiro has been one of the smartest DMs for the past decade. He has always shown vision and the ability to get out of tight situations. You are not POY for a top 4 team without being very smart with the ball. Mount has always been highly rated. Although Bruno can be pretty dumb at times, he was selected captain and that has to say a lot about what ETH thinks.

On paper this should be a very good midfield. I thought they would form triangles and use quick passing to create space for the ball. Maybe even a little tiki taka with the three of them. They really never did that which is puzzling to me.

 

[Longshanks]

This sums up the problem nicely, . No space in the middle wolves were very narrow defensivley. But lots of chances for overloads out wide. The right three triangle of Bruno/Anthony/A.W.B did ok but the left hand side of Shaw/mount/ and particularly garnacho didn't. Once Sancho and eriksen come on and we were able to sustain dangerous attacks from both wings we were able to pen wolves in somewhat build pressure and eventually got the goal.

If we had started with Sancho over garnacho last night we probably would of won much more comfortably.

 

[PieCrust]

The problem with the midfield was ETH didn't adjust tactics. To goal was to draw Wolves in and hope they aggressively press our defenders, which would free up both Bruno and Mount further up the pitch. Varane was pushing up with Casemiro to make a double pivot with Martinez dropping to make passes with both AWB and Shaw. This is why both Bruno and Mount weren't dropping back to recieve the ball and were both instead pushed higher; this was a tactical call by ETH.

But Wolves never bit, and let us just pass the ball aimlessly around our own box, while dropping slightly to keep the midfield covered. Couple this with Mount and Bruno having bad games just trying to makes passes, Garnacho and Antony not able to make Wolves pay on the outside were all the space was, we turned the ball over a lot and had only Casemiro back to defend who was overrun by Wolves midfield.

I was expecting a change at halftime, but ETH didn't adjust, which was surprising.

Then in the later stages of the match, the entire team was just knackered and couldn't keep up with Wolves who never seemed to run out of energy.

I believe the midfield is a fixable problem, but it will depend on how ETH applies his tactics.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

Pretty rubbish display yesterday by everyone really but the 3 points are all that matters for the season opener. The fact that everyone was on a low level means I am putting this one down to us being somewhat 'undercooked' and maybe just a bit behind Wolves in fitness levels. Its the only way i can explain Wolves looking like Barcelona 2009. Hopefully another week will get us in shape for Spurs.

 

[dinostar77]

Interesting watch.

Summary: Wolves outclassed utd tactically, off the ball and on the ball.

Casemiro left isolated qs a single pivot with too much ground to cover alone.

Wolves allowed Wan Bissaka to have the ball as hes the worse outfield player technically.

Wolves allowed attacks to come from Utd right side as antony is predictable and Wan Bissaka doesnt offer enough going forwards.

Utd were a mess on and off the ball. Something isnt rigjt, but its jard to pin point what it is. Lack of belief?

 

[Longshanks]

Interesting watch.

Summary: Wolves outclassed utd tactically, off the ball and on the ball.

Casemiro left isolated qs a single pivot with too much ground to cover alone.

Wolves allowed Wan Bissaka to have the ball as hes the worse outfield player technically.

Wolves allowed attacks to come from Utd right side as antony is predictable and Wan Bissaka doesnt offer enough going forwards.

Utd were a mess on and off the ball. Something isnt rigjt, but its jard to pin point what it is. Lack of belief?

Wolves were quite happy for United to attack from both sides. They didn't let A.W.B have the ball necceserialy they just didn't want mount and Bruno having space to work in the middle. The reason A.W.B was more noticeable than say Shaw was because Anthony was actually retaining the ball and combining with A.W.B and Bruno. Garnacho wasn't retaining and also wasn't combining with Shaw. When Sancho came on instead he retained and combined with shaw and eriksen and suddenly we could sustain attacks from both sides. Then we penned wolves in much more our high press became more effective and wolves opportunity to break dropped significantly.

Frankly the biggest problem was Garnacho simply not doing his job he had a shocker.

 

[NoLogo]

Interesting watch.

Summary: Wolves outclassed utd tactically, off the ball and on the ball.

Casemiro left isolated qs a single pivot with too much ground to cover alone.

Wolves allowed Wan Bissaka to have the ball as hes the worse outfield player technically.

Wolves allowed attacks to come from Utd right side as antony is predictable and Wan Bissaka doesnt offer enough going forwards.

Utd were a mess on and off the ball. Something isnt rigjt, but its jard to pin point what it is. Lack of belief?

Just watched it, pretty good summary, Wolves made it tough for us to play the way we wanted. What I just don't understand is the way we always seem to be on the back foot. For years now it seems most teams in the league outrun and out fight us, we are always one step too late, the players always seem to hold on to the ball too long, and it doesn't get better even with all the new signings.

Apart from that you have to give Wolves and O'Neil probs they outsmarted us, and we didn't find an answer for over 97 minutes, which is probably what worries me the most.

 

[pcaming]

3 days with a new manager nullifies our entire preseason

We are genuinely cursed. We need 2 world class wingers sadly.

 

[ObscureBaguette]

Antony is a disaster of a signing. Crazy money on a very average one-dimensional player. I hope he improves but he needs to start showing why we paid so much for him. He's not a teenager. He's a 23-year-old Brazil international who cost £80m+.

 

[dinostar77]

Just watched it, pretty good summary, Wolves made it tough for us to play the way we wanted. What I just don't understand is the way we always seem to be on the back foot. For years now it seems most teams in the league outrun and out fight us, we are always one step too late, the players always seem to hold on to the ball too long, and it doesn't get better even with all the new signings.

Apart from that you have to give Wolves and O'Neil probs they outsmarted us, and we didn't find an answer for over 97 minutes, which is probably what worries me the most.

This is the crux of the issue. As Roy Keane used to say, As a player you have to win your individual battles, you should never be outrun, outplayed or outfought". All 10 outfield players do that and your on your way to a nice win.

Why we cant see to do that....

 

[dinostar77]

Antony is a disaster of a signing. Crazy money on a very average one-dimensional player. I hope he improves but he needs to start showing why we paid so much for him. He's not a teenager. He's a 23-year-old Brazil international who cost £80m+.

Wierd thing is that ETH hasnt tried him on the left. They he doent need to cut in can go outside and actual crozs using his left foot.

Hes a bizaare signing. If only he had a left fot like Hagi.

 

[El Zoido]

Antony is a disaster of a signing. Crazy money on a very average one-dimensional player. I hope he improves but he needs to start showing why we paid so much for him. He's not a teenager. He's a 23-year-old Brazil international who cost £80m+.

I agree. I’ve sort of been in the “we’re a better side with him in it” camp, but at this point I’m just not seeing it with him. If we’d paid £30m for him I’d have been disappointed. It’s crazy to see how much we’ve spent on him and Sancho and how little we’ve got in return.

 

[Laurencio]

Being utterly terrible and still winning the match is a good sign. We will get better and we probably won't be this terrible very often, coming away from that with 3 points is not a bad thing in all honesty.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

A brave person predicts a win away at Spurs

 

[Wazzaduke33]

I just can’t work out what type of team we are ? Possession, counter attack, pressing ? No identity at all

 

[sixdwarf]

Just read his stats:
As per TalkSPORT, Mount claimed zero goals, zero assists, created zero chances, made zero crosses, won zero tackles and won zero aerial duals during his time on the pitch.

But I am trying to judge over a long period of time. I feared he would be another expensive signing mistake. I've never rated him. I hope I am wrong.

 

[sixdwarf]

I just can’t work out what type of team we are ? Possession, counter attack, pressing ? No identity at all

Ten Hag has changed things and I don't think the players are on the same page with him at the moment. Playing Mount seemingly ahead of Bruno was odd. I just don't see Mount as a threat.

 

[sixdwarf]

Wolves already got an apology from the refs .

What a robbery today was.

We have to accept it was. And Spurs will beat us if we repeat that abject performance.

 

[lex talionis]

We can point a lot of fingers at different problems, but the absence of a striker is still butchering our overall attacking scheme. Without a striker who can both hold up play and be a focal point in the box we be fekked. Until we’re sorted at striker we will continue to struggle regardless of how things get sorted out between Bruno and Mount.

 

[Globule]

Obviously the position we've found ourselves in here (and numerous other times during the match) is terrible, but what you can't see from the graphic is how Wolves got the ball. I think the big problem yesterday was just how easily we gave away possession in attacking situations, when we've committed players forward. We really do need to get better with the ball first and foremost. It's why City can get away with a similar set-up - their players are less likely to be running into blind alleys, passing straight to opponents or overrunning the ball.

 

[Nani Nana]

We can point a lot of fingers at different problems, but the absence of a striker is still butchering our overall attacking scheme. Without a striker who can both hold up play and be a focal point in the box we be fekked. Until we’re sorted at striker we will continue to struggle regardless of how things get sorted out between Bruno and Mount.

Agreed

 

[RedOrange]

I noticed more positive signs and decent little runs of play in this match than I expected to on the second viewing, I think mainly because the negativity and pants-shitting in the game threads started literally in the first minute of the match. If you're so sure the game is going to be a disaster in the first minute, do yourself a favour: shut the fecking match off and do something else.

Our press and counter press looks a lot more effective with Mount on the pitch, he plays with a lot of energy. There were a few counter attacking runs where Casemiro pushed up aggressively to attempt a counter press that failed, leaving a lot of space behind. I think they'll work on this and his decisions on this will improve as the season moves on.

It thought the two players who struggled the most were Garnacho and Rashford in that order. Garnacho looked completely outmatched physically and made a few poor decisions, and Rashford was also physically bullied and unable to do anything with his limited time and space in the centre. Hojlund being integrated into the team will improve two positions for us, as he looks like he plays with good physicality, especially for a 19 year old. Rashford looked like his normal self when he got the ball on the left side of the pitch during the match, so I'm not worried about that. I don't think Garnacho is ready to start matches yet but he'll continue to be effective as a sub for Rashford, who we'll need to keep fresh anyways.

There were definitely some moments where players looked a bit confused, but I think it's important to keep in mind that they're playing more aggressively without the ball so far this season and it will take time for the players to develop the necessary skills and decision making for that, which can only really be perfected with real match experience. They're counter pressing a lot more and pressing higher up the pitch without the ball in general.

 

[Lights Out]

Because teams evolve constantly and there are so many factors to consider - if you want to simply say we beat this team last year, therefore we are worse off because we scored 1 less it is about as simplistic as you can get in my mind. They probably had 4-5 different starting players to that game, as did we.

So comparing a result against a team we played around 12 weeks ago is more simplistic than people comparing it the first game of last season simply because it was the first game. Ok.

 

[justsomebloke]

I noticed more positive signs and decent little runs of play in this match than I expected to on the second viewing, I think mainly because the negativity and pants-shitting in the game threads started literally in the first minute of the match. If you're so sure the game is going to be a disaster in the first minute, do yourself a favour: shut the fecking match off and do something else.

Our press and counter press looks a lot more effective with Mount on the pitch, he plays with a lot of energy. There were a few counter attacking runs where Casemiro pushed up aggressively to attempt a counter press that failed, leaving a lot of space behind. I think they'll work on this and his decisions on this will improve as the season moves on.

It thought the two players who struggled the most were Garnacho and Rashford in that order. Garnacho looked completely outmatched physically and made a few poor decisions, and Rashford was also physically bullied and unable to do anything with his limited time and space in the centre. Hojlund being integrated into the team will improve two positions for us, as he looks like he plays with good physicality, especially for a 19 year old. Rashford looked like his normal self when he got the ball on the left side of the pitch during the match, so I'm not worried about that. I don't think Garnacho is ready to start matches yet but he'll continue to be effective as a sub for Rashford, who we'll need to keep fresh anyways.

There were definitely some moments where players looked a bit confused, but I think it's important to keep in mind that they're playing more aggressively without the ball so far this season and it will take time for the players to develop the necessary skills and decision making for that, which can only really be perfected with real match experience. They're counter pressing a lot more and pressing higher up the pitch without the ball in general.

Not sure I agree entirely with this (and I didn't follow the match day thread during the game, so can't have been influenced by that). Our pressing didn't look very effective or intensive to me, in comparison with last season. And in any case it's questionable how much that mattered, given how many Wolves attacks started from our obscenely frequent ball losses well forward, and was transitioned into forward movement by Wolves before any press could really be instigated.

I agree about Garnacho having a poor game, Rashford though was to my mind no worse than any of our other attackers and I think it's necessary to consider that he'l have been the most direct victim of our inability to really get anything effective going attack-wise - not even in transition, which we're usually so good at.

Casemiro I think also gets more stick than he deserves. He was perhaps the only player to contribute quality passing fairly consistently, and I suspect that defensively he was chiefly victimised by our posture and by all those giveaways from our attackers.

 

[lex talionis]

Watching the match again three things stand out for me:

We weren’t as bad as the matchday thread would have us believe, but we were short on ideas in the final third.

Onana had a great game, but there is no sign of the transformational impact yet on our attack. But it’s early days.

Not in a million years did Onana commit a foul. Or more precisely, over the last million years that kind of contact has never been called on a foul by the keeper. And in fact more often than not we see the foul being called on the forward, not the keeper. Crazy that Webb has punished the referees for what was in fact the right call.

 

[Lyng]

Wolves were quite happy for United to attack from both sides. They didn't let A.W.B have the ball necceserialy they just didn't want mount and Bruno having space to work in the middle. The reason A.W.B was more noticeable than say Shaw was because Anthony was actually retaining the ball and combining with A.W.B and Bruno. Garnacho wasn't retaining and also wasn't combining with Shaw. When Sancho came on instead he retained and combined with shaw and eriksen and suddenly we could sustain attacks from both sides. Then we penned wolves in much more our high press became more effective and wolves opportunity to break dropped significantly.

Frankly the biggest problem was Garnacho simply not doing his job he had a shocker.

Antony constantly moved in and made our space to pass smaller. He was as much an issue as Garnacho. In fact Wolves where happy to let Antony have the ball because he did nothing of value with it, whereas they where on Garnacho constantly and didnt allow him any breathing room.

 

[Maticmaker]

It is about getting the balance between genuine commercial needs and a proper structured training outcome.
And I am sure that the manager is well aware of the problems caused when that balance is no struck. And if he wasn't he certainly is now.
But playing badly, and it was certainly bad, and winning is not a bad thing as long as it is not relied upon.

I tend to agree with you, and we did get the three points....but then why did we for long periods seem so 'off the pace' as we were against Wolves... our first match of the season?
To be fair its been like this for a number of seasons now, very sluggish start, so you have got to think its got to be something to do with the pre-season regime/schedule?

Wolves were picking up the ball just outside their own box and just set off running, they didn't have to dodge or weave or work the ball they ran straight past our midfield and seem to catch a number of our defenders somewhat flat-footed, at least over ten yards or so. Admittedly AWB is getting better all around, but thank goodness for his party piece, of being able to chase down attackers and stretching them long legs out just in time.

It seems to me whatever they have been doing wrong in pre-season for a number of years now, they are still doing it. I suppose you could argue that the poor start last year was overcome, we won a trophy, got into CL etc.... but just think what we could do if we hit the ground running

 

[Howl]

Obviously the position we've found ourselves in here (and numerous other times during the match) is terrible, but what you can't see from the graphic is how Wolves got the ball. I think the big problem yesterday was just how easily we gave away possession in attacking situations, when we've committed players forward. We really do need to get better with the ball first and foremost. It's why City can get away with a similar set-up - their players are less likely to be running into blind alleys, passing straight to opponents or overrunning the ball.

This was the exact problem. We lost the ball 81 times. What we try to do is get the ball to the winger's who keep their width and try to hold the ball to let the rest of the team move forward (you see this particularly with Antony). Particularly we want the two 10's to underlap on the wingers to create the triangle with either the striker or the fullback. When the winger (particularly Garnacho) loses the ball pretty much everytime he looks at it you are always going to look terrible. There's also no tactical adjustment you can make for that either. We needed to haul Garnacho off after almost 20 minutes. I think we did ok defensively in the first half as we restricted Wolves to 5 shots, which was still too much, but in the second half we were cut open far too much particularly in the last 20 minutes.

 

[Howl]

Antony constantly moved in and made our space to pass smaller. He was as much an issue as Garnacho. In fact Wolves where happy to let Antony have the ball because he did nothing of value with it, whereas they where on Garnacho constantly and didnt allow him any breathing room.

That's not really true. We were only dangerous when we attacked down the right hand side which we only really did during two periods- towards the end of the first half, and when we scored the goal. The reason Antony moves inside is due to the overlap of Wan Bissaka. When he underlaps Antony will hold the width but Wan Bissaka tends to be more of an overlapping fullback. I don't understand the constant need to bring up Antony in these discussions when he created the most chances (tied with Bruno and Wan Bissaka), gave the ball away amongst the least amount of times, just to try and make Garnacho's impact on the poor performance seem less.

 

[Lyng]

That's not really true. We were only dangerous when we attacked down the right hand side which we only really did during two periods- towards the end of the first half, and when we scored the goal. The reason Antony moves inside is due to the overlap of Wan Bissaka. When he underlaps Antony will hold the width but Wan Bissaka tends to be more of an overlapping fullback. I don't understand the constant need to bring up Antony in these discussions when he created the most chances (tied with Bruno and Wan Bissaka), gave the ball away amongst the least amount of times, just to try and make Garnacho's impact on the poor performance seem less.

We didn't really create. Our xg was woeful

 

[Buster15]

I tend to agree with you, and we did get the three points....but then why did we for long periods seem so 'off the pace' as we were against Wolves... our first match of the season?
To be fair its been like this for a number of seasons now, very sluggish start, so you have got to think its got to be something to do with the pre-season regime/schedule?

Wolves were picking up the ball just outside their own box and just set off running, they didn't have to dodge or weave or work the ball they ran straight past our midfield and seem to catch a number of our defenders somewhat flat-footed, at least over ten yards or so. Admittedly AWB is getting better all around, but thank goodness for his party piece, of being able to chase down attackers and stretching them long legs out just in time.

It seems to me whatever they have been doing wrong in pre-season for a number of years now, they are still doing it. I suppose you could argue that the poor start last year was overcome, we won a trophy, got into CL etc.... but just think what we could do if we hit the ground running

Yes totally agree. And actually Wolves were everything we should have been. They have a lot of talent. But it was the desire and teamwork that United should have displayed, especially at home. And you would have thought that the players would have sensed that something had to be done to stop them just running straight at our defence. But no. There was no reaction at all.
Anyway. I am sure that EtH will get that sorted ready to beat Tottenham and get another 3 points.

 

[AlexiV]

Last year we lost our opening games so I’ll take a shitty win. We will get better!

 

[Howl]

We didn't really create. Our xg was woeful

You've taken one thing that I've said and then ignored the rest. What does that have to do with what I said? You haven't responded to anything that I said other than me saying "he created the most chances (tied with Bruno and Wan Bissaka)" with "well we didn't create chances therefore, none of what you said matters". If your going to reply to someone actually make a reply and not a throwaway comment.

 

[Melville Red]

I really was full of optimism for this match and was rather disappointed with the performance, (who wasn’t‘?) but at the end of the day we had three points which is three more than this time last season.
I‘m really hoping ETH looks at our midfield and Anthony, Anthony really is in my opinion over rated, I’d love to see Pellestri get a run out and see if he can create more, Anthony just slows everything down by relying n his left foot.
Roll on Saturday, let’s see if things have been learned and we can get a good win away at Spurs.

 

[starboy]

Terrible performance and worrying trend if we will continue with it. Best player was probably Onana with AWB a Varane.
Casemiro movement was highly questionable. Bruno & Mount basically invisible. Wingers complete disaster. Rashy cut off from rest of the team (he is definitely not ST).
Honestly not sure if we can do more. Wolves were prepared very well. Positive could be that teams will not press our goalie anymore.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

You've taken one thing that I've said and then ignored the rest. What does that have to do with what I said? You haven't responded to anything that I said other than me saying "he created the most chances (tied with Bruno and Wan Bissaka)" with "well we didn't create chances therefore, none of what you said matters". If your going to reply to someone actually make a reply and not a throwaway comment.

That’s Redcafe for you

 

[Lyng]

You've taken one thing that I've said and then ignored the rest. What does that have to do with what I said? You haven't responded to anything that I said other than me saying "he created the most chances (tied with Bruno and Wan Bissaka)" with "well we didn't create chances therefore, none of what you said matters". If your going to reply to someone actually make a reply and not a throwaway comment.

Let me explain. They let him have the ball and he only managed to create a few chances. Overall we didn't create because they let him have space and instead locked down our other players.
Our xg was woeful because we couldn't unlock wolves. Antony was given a lot of space and yet didn't create much.
In other words him creating more chances than the others is meaninglessness given the nature of how Wolves approached us and our overall extremely low amount of chances.

 

[Howl]

Let me explain. They let him have the ball and he only managed to create a few chances. Overall we didn't create because they let him have space and instead locked down our other players.
Our xg was woeful because we couldn't unlock wolves. Antony was given a lot of space and yet didn't create much.
In other words him creating more chances than the others is meaninglessness given the nature of how Wolves approached us and our overall extremely low amount of chances.

You can't look at stats and form an opinion while completely disregarding stats that go against your opinion. You say "they let him have the ball", is it possible that he's better at finding space? Hence, him receiving a greater number of progressive passes than Garnacho did, all the while we played predominately down the left? Like I said, we had two periods of attacking threat and that coincided with the two periods where we played down the right hand side.

 

[Lyng]

You can't look at stats and form an opinion while completely disregarding stats that go against your opinion. You say "they let him have the ball", is it possible that he's better at finding space? Hence, him receiving a greater number of progressive passes than Garnacho did, all the while we played predominately down the left? Like I said, we had two periods of attacking threat and that coincided with the two periods where we played down the right hand side.

Thats not what I am doing? I am comparing the stats and looking at the game. In fact you are the one only looking at one stat and then using that out of context. Watch the game again or look at Tifo's breakdown of the game. Wolves moved away and let him and AWB have acres of space. Antony would then 9 times out of 10 receive the ball and move in central, which he always does, and thus make it easy to completely nulify us, whereas they had Dawson pretty much man mark Garnacho to lock him down instantly and not let him receive the ball.