[flameinthesun]

Mount was injured loads last season wasn't he and dropped when he wasn't, but we signed him. Sign Sancho even though he had issues at previous clubs regarding lateness and needs babysitting.

Yeah, it is a bit silly. Based on the athletic report I wouldn't be surprised if the scouts would have highlighted it but been overruled by Murtough. This is why for me that whole setup needs to be revamped and transfers taken out of the manager's control.

 

[Oldyella]

All of those CBs fit would have started over Evans and Kambwala

You said every one of those players would start. They wouldn't, 4 of them play the same position.

 

[acnumber9]

how many teams have gone into a match with 11 first team players injured? How many teams have played most of the season with their 4th/5th/6th choice CMs and CBs? How many teams have had all first team left backs injured and then sign an emergency left back and he gets injured? And how many have had all those things happen within the first half of the season?

Regarding Onana lets also not pretend that signing a GK who fits the profile of whats needed and reached a CL final is all of a sudden a bad decision to sign. Onana has himself to blame for his mistakes.

We started today with at least 7 of what Ten Hag would consider his strongest team. That’s without including McTominay who he has continually chosen to start ahead of the mediocre midfielder he wanted this summer.

He made the conscious choice to do without Varane on numerous occasions.

Onana and his faults were known to Ten Hag. Just like Antony and Amrabat and yet he still pushed to sign them. That enough should be reason to sack him.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

The chicken at united is better than the football.

Hahahahahhahaha

 

[Duncan the Great]

God I hate this squad. When all fit I’d want about 6 or 7 of them to remain

With all the possession and passes it’s absolutely pointless. They just don’t seem to have a clue how to create chances.

most teams we play know what all of their team mates roles are, where they will be and what they are doing.We just seem to go from game week to game week making it up in the hope that something works

I and many others pointed this out last season and again this season. Nothing has changed, reason? ETH is clueless!!!!!! For Gods sake (and ours) get rid asap.

 

[flameinthesun]

You said every one of those players would start. They wouldn't, 4 of them play the same position.

1) Your Comprehension is lacking
2) You also clearly know the point I was making so are being a troll. Do you.

 

[stu_1992]

Relating deflating result. Played a decent game in possession but had no real cutting edge. I did still feel like we were more likely than them to get a goal. But then a great moment taken by them and we fall apart again giving away a second quickly to put the nail in our coffin.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Quick, back to the takeover thread!

Our only hope to turn this around in 3 years.... F me.

 

[LawmanMan]

It was a masterful performance by Moyes. He reeled Erik in and then did him up like a kipper. He made a couple of tweaks in the second half to utilize Pacqueta and it was our total undoing.

 

[Jeffthered]

Relating deflating result. Played a decent game in possession but had no real cutting edge. I did still feel like we were more likely than them to get a goal. But then a great moment taken by them and we fall apart again giving away a second quickly to put the nail in our coffin.

We were never anything aside from average today. I think we were rubbish. No character, personality, idea, fight... nothing. Embarrassing.

 

[flameinthesun]

We started today with at least 7 of what Ten Hag would consider his strongest team. That’s without including McTominay who he has continually chosen to start ahead of the mediocre midfielder he wanted this summer.

He made the conscious choice to do without Varane on numerous occasions.

Onana and his faults were known to Ten Hag. Just like Antony and Amrabat and yet he still pushed to sign them. That enough should be reason to sack him.

When everyone in the squad are fit and giving their all are Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo, Mctominay and Garnacho starting? When everyone in the squad is fit are Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo and Mctominay, pellistri the first options to come off the bench?

Again, the idea to sign Onana was not a silly one. He made the odd mistake but not to the level of what he did in the champs league. And Im speaking as someone who wanted Costa over him!

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I guess I'll just pour my heart into Villa winning the league and Luton Town staying up. And any improvement from our youngsters. Dark days continue.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Our only hope to turn this around in 3 years.... F me.

That’s pretty optimistic. I reckon in 3 years ol’ Jim will be wondering what he’s got himself into.

 

[VP89]

When everyone in the squad are fit and giving their all are Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo, Mctominay and Garnacho starting? When everyone in the squad is fit are Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo and Mctominay, pellistri the first options to come off the bench?

Again, the idea to sign Onana was not a silly one. He made the odd mistake but not to the level of what he did in the champs league. And Im speaking as someone who wanted Costa over him!

The problem is we played fine for the most part until the attackers got the ball. I agree the quality isn't right but Antony and Hojlund are his choices, and a lack of creativity also comes down to how well the players are drilled.

Moreover his subs were just weird. Taking off our only CF for a left winger what the actual feck?

 

[Oldyella]

1) Your Comprehension is lacking
2) You also clearly know the point I was making so are being a troll. Do you.

You said all those players would start. 2 of them would start at CB. You mentioned Amrabat who wasn't picked but would apparently start. Mount who's not forced his way into first team before joining the injured list.

It's just more excuses. We are missing a pair of centrebacks and Cas, that's about it and still look garbage.

 

[Hakara]

Has United really scored as few goals as Luton or should I put down the christmas beers?

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

That’s pretty optimistic. I reckon in 3 years ol’ Jim will be wondering what he’s got himself into.

Fair. I try to enjoy the journeys of life, but this one is very very hard to take.

 

[acnumber9]

When everyone in the squad are fit and giving their all are Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo, Mctominay and Garnacho starting? When everyone in the squad is fit are Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo and Mctominay, pellistri the first options to come off the bench?

Again, the idea to sign Onana was not a silly one. He made the odd mistake but not to the level of what he did in the champs league. And Im speaking as someone who wanted Costa over him!

It’s impossible to say with Mainoo but he chose Garnacho today over the alternative. Mainoo/McTominay weren’t included in the 7. At best he was without Casemiro, Eriksen, Martinez and Maguire from what he would’ve chosen to start the game. That’s not enough to excuse the continual shite we see, particularly when he would’ve made the choice to have Casemiro in midfield on his own regardless of that fact. Nobody is forcing him to play one man midfields every week and never learn from it.

Onana was a known quantity to Ten Hag. He didn’t have to guess. He’s the exact keeper he has always been. One with glaring deficiencies.

 

[flameinthesun]

The problem is we played fine for the most part until the attackers got the ball. I agree the quality isn't right but Antony and Hojlund are his choices, and a lack of creativity also comes down to how well the players are drilled.

Moreover his subs were just weird. Taking off our only CF for a left winger what the actual feck?

Yeah as in another post I replied to I agree regarding the attacking options. I personally think our manager's should not dictate transfers. Even then its murky because you have the scouts valuing Antony at 25mil, Ten Hag saying he needs signings to bolster the squad and them Murtough going and blowimg 80odd on him. Not letting Ten Hag off but you got a manager coming into a league he's not managed in before and asking him to dictate transfers. As crap as Antony has been, for 25mil I would have been pleased with his contribution last season. However, the realitu is we are playing with a winger who probably would struggle to start for most teams in the league and then a back up in Pellistri who would likely struggle to start in the championship.

 

[Todd]

Worse than I expected. Cannot believe I got up when it was still dark out to watch that.

This club are in serious trouble, I hope nobody is still delusional enough to think otherwise.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

Injured: Martinez, Maguire, Varane, Lindelof, Dalot, Casemiro, Mount, Amrabat, Martial, Diallo

Playing Fifa: Sancho

Just back from injury: Eriksen

Apart from Martial, Diallo and maybe Dalot and Sancho, every one of those players would have started today over thise who started, the others likely would have come on...

At full strength it would have been a tough game....this aint the hill to die on...

No no and no.

Take a look at our line ups from earlier on in the season (BBC is a good source).

Our defeats to Palace and Brighton in September we had maybe 3 first choice players unavailable at any given time. Hardly an injury crisis.

We didn't fare much better in some of our comebacks against Wolves and Forest....again the team wasn't massively affected by injuries then either.

We are shit at the moment and we've been shit when some of those injured players were playing e.g. Casemiro, Mount, Martial.

When a team is dysfunctional it becomes difficult to properly assess individuals as everyone pretty much stinks but.....Onana hasn't shown us to be an upgrade on De Gea and his lauded distribution skills hasn't improved our style of play AT ALL.

Mount was a strange purchase especially as he wasn't that cheap and he was one of the first players through the door in the transfer window. Many of us suspended our scepticism in favour of trusting ETH to have a specified a role which Mount was earmarked for but ETH doesn't seem to know where to play him (when he's been fit).

 

[flameinthesun]

It’s impossible to say with Mainoo but he chose Garnacho today over the alternative. Mainoo/McTominay weren’t included in the 7. At best he was without Casemiro, Eriksen, Martinez and Maguire from what he would’ve chosen to start the game. That’s not enough to excuse the continual shite we see, particularly when he would’ve made the choice to have Casemiro in midfield on his own regardless of that fact. Nobody is forcing him to play one man midfields every week and never learn from it.

Onana was a known quantity to Ten Hag. He didn’t have to guess. He’s the exact keeper he has always been. One with glaring deficiencies.

One of Martinez, Lindelof, Varane, Maguire all would have started over Kambwala and one of Martinez, Maguire likely over evans, maybe Varane as well. One of Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen if fit would have likely started over Mainoo, could also make the case for Mct who we were happy to let go in the summer. Lets not pretend that Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo and Mct would start if everyone was fit and apart from maybe Mct that they would be the first choice backup.

 

[90 + 5min]

Zero mentality. As soon as we get behind there is breakdown in everything.

 

[acnumber9]

One of Martinez, Lindelof, Varane, Maguire all would have started over Kambwala and one of Martinez, Maguire likely over evans, maybe Varane as well. One of Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen if fit would have likely started over Mainoo, could also make the case for Mct who we were happy to let go in the summer. Lets not pretend that Evans, Kambwala, Mainoo and Mct would start if everyone was fit and apart from maybe Mct that they would be the first choice backup.

None of that changes the fact he had 7 of what would be his strongest team starting at least and possibly 8. I don’t know what you’re arguing against.

 

[flameinthesun]

None of that changes the fact he had 7 of what would be his strongest team starting at least and possibly 8. I don’t know what you’re arguing against.

There is no argument, again you are missing the point. With our best 11 it would be a battle to win there but one I'd expect us to win although not easily, with 6 of them (Onana, Shaw, AWB, Bruno, Antony, Rasmus), and an 18yo playing CDM, a debuting 19yo CB, our 5th choice CB, Mct who is lucky to still be here and Garnacho who is only starting because Rashford is having the hump, am I surprised we lost? Not really.

 

[acnumber9]

There is no argument, again you are missing the point. With our best 11 it would be a battle to win there but one I'd expect us to win although not easily, with 6 of them (Onana, Shaw, AWB, Bruno, Antony, Rasmus), and an 18yo playing CDM, a debuting 19yo CB, our 5th choice CB, Mct who is lucky to still be here and Garnacho who is only starting because Rashford is having the hump, am I surprised we lost? Not really.

But a team with at least 7 of their best 11 should be able to overcome that. You are missing the point. Today cannot be viewed in isolation. Nobody wants him gone for one result. They want him gone for the batshit tactics and game after game of awful performances and terrible signings.

 

[Krakenzero]

You looked OK for most of the first half, then Garnacho missed those two chances that should be tap ins for a United forward (not trying to put the blame on him, as he apparently is the only one able to get into dangerous positions).

In the second half the squad started to fade away and the first goal could have come sooner (that header that went exactly to where Onana was standing). Then the squad just checked out. They are just not into it.

 

[Maagge]

Are we back to being so crap that we can't even assess our players anymore?

 

[patch1]

You could not make up how bad this side is.Do they actually know how to score goals.Why would anybody want to pay good money to watch this crap.

 

[sglowrider]

Dominated the game for pretty much most of the game. West Ham hardly laid a glove on us until their goals, which was down to not doing the fundamentals right.

Unfortunately, because our attacking players are in a bad moment/not good enough, it means we fail to capitalise in moments when we're on top.

West Ham had two decent chances and scored two. We pretty much had the same and got into better positions for most of the game, yet we didn't score at all.

Perfect example of possession is meaningless if we don't acore

 

[Maticmaker]

Leaving injuries aside, all teams suffer injuries, our problem again is going forward.
Our two 5th and 6th choice centre backs coped in the first half, where we had the two best chances but Garnacho's inexperience showed again in his run's on goal.
Why is Hojlund playing up front with no close support around him, he has to come to the half line to get a proper touch. The one time he was on top of the goal and Garnacho tries a shot right at the keeper, with Hojlund on the goal line, if the ball had hit him it would have gone in!!
My heart sank then, because you know you cannot waste chances like that in a game like this, where the opposition is at home, seemingly docile, but is only sleeping... you know they are going to wake up sometime.
Easiest three points West Ham will get at home all season.
We have to stop relying on having two wingers playing on the wrong side, failing to cut in, and also can't put the ball across from the bye-line with their 'wrong foot'.
Two up front playing on the oppositions CB's, breaking the lines down the middle, with at least three man midfield, we have got to stop offering the same approach that every coach in the PL knows, just as well as his own plans.

 

[sglowrider]

No more Dutch managers. Like the players they all seem very hit & miss despite fantastic CVs.
Flatter to deceive

 

[IncyWincySpider]

We were dull and unimaginative. Never looked like scoring. We had a week's rest before that game as well, it's not as if they were tired, FFS. Just clueless.

 

[ExoduS]

Had to miss the game because of a trip to the mountain. Didn’t miss much it seems.

 

[lex talionis]

Our attacking as well as our defending were poor, but otherwise I actually thought we were pretty average.

 

[GameOn]

Problem is that in order to succeed you either need

1) a manager with a clear vision/philosophy that gets every player to buy into it and give 110% each game

2) a well balanced squad with a superstar (!) leader in defense, midfield and up front

Of course it's best if you check both boxes, but one is usually enough to have success.

You can win with #1 and good (not great) players and you can win with #2 and a good (not great) manager.

Problem is that right now we don't check either box.

Players clearly don't buy into Ten Haag's philosophy and we don't have any superstar on the squad. Not even close tbh.

If we look at them individually, that's bunch of average to slightly above average PL players. Nothing more.

 

[Superden]

Injured: Martinez, Maguire, Varane, Lindelof, Dalot, Casemiro, Mount, Amrabat, Martial, Diallo

Playing Fifa: Sancho

Just back from injury: Eriksen

Apart from Martial, Diallo and maybe Dalot and Sancho, every one of those players would have started today over thise who started, the others likely would have come on...

At full strength it would have been a tough game....this aint the hill to die on...

if the salvation lies in the likes of Martial then thats not the clever argument it sounds like.

 

[Camilo]

Moyes was the one that got away. Every other ex manager has disappeared without trace. Not our David, who clearly was the man to stick with.

 

[Hester_manc]

The biggest difference from last season is that Casemiro and Eriksen were fantastic and controlled all our play. Eriksen was injured and wasn't so good at the end of the season, but otherwise.

Casemiro and Eriksen defended the defense fantastically, and at the same time they both had a sublime technique where they could create chances for their teammates.

None of their substitutes do the same. McT has scored some goals but he doesn't have the same creativity. Mainoo is very young and was injured himself for a few months. Amrabat is not creative at all. And Mount has been a big disappointment. So we have had a huge problem with our central midfield. And I think that is the obvious big difference compared to last season.

 

[Roboc7]

Another really poor performance, West Ham didn’t turn up in first half and when we failed to capitalise just knew would be made to pay. They let us have the ball and waited to pick us off, soon as they got a goal it was game over.

Only Sheff Utd have scored less goals than us now, the lack or creativity and cutting edge is crazy.