[Stig]

Just seen the replay of the Garnacho penalty incident on MotD. It's a clear penalty, the defender has both his arms around his body such that he can't move.

How that isn't seen as a penalty I can't understand.

And Ericson, in the second half, gets penalised for a very similar but weaker version.

But them side by side and it's unbelievable

 

[moodyred]

Given our recent form, the performance is actually better than I expected. Result would have been ok if we are not already that far behind in points. Disappointed we didn't get a win.

Thought Dalot played well in this game. Happy Rashford and Rasmus got their goals.

Underpar performance by Onana.

 

[croadyman]

Gonna be a while until we resemble a team that plays football like spurs. That’s the sad thing

Need to properly gut the squad if we ever want to see a Utd who actually resemble a team

 

[justsomebloke]

To those unhappy with the result; maybe remember that this is only the third time this season we played a top half team and didn't lose . Which are the last three times actually, so that is beginning to look like something.

Performance-wise, just like the last game against Spurs; good first half, bad second.

Bruno, AWB and Højlund our best players IMO.

 

[stefan92]

Timo Werner though, how can a professional striker be soooooo bad at ..... striking?

Chelsea striker curse doing its magic

 

[Lyng]

Interesting to hear a non United fans take on why we didnt win.

 

[justsomebloke]

Interesting to hear a non United fans take on why we didnt win.

Why, because Bruno didn't chase down Bentancur for the second goal, leaving him to Eriksen instead? He only takes 12 minutes of chatter before getting to the point too.

For feck's sake. He was our best player yesterday. Judging from the player ratings, I can only assume that at this stage, people have just decided who they like and who they don't, and see what they have decided to see.

 

[Lyng]

Oh for feck's sake. He was our best player yesterday. I can only assume that at this stage, people have just decided who they like and who they don't, and see what they have decided to see.

You should watch the video. He raises a ton of different points. The thumbnail is quite clickbaity but then again given how the Youtube algorithm works I can hardly blame him.
His points about Romeros defending and body language on our first goal are interesting and was something I didnt catch yesterday.
Disregard the thumbnail which makes it looks like he blames Bruno for our overall play. If you watch the video that is not the case.

 

[justsomebloke]

You should watch the video. He raises a ton of different points. The thumbnail is quite clickbaity but then again given how the Youtube algorithm works I can hardly blame him.
His points about Romeros defending and body language on our first goal are interesting and was something I didnt catch yesterday.
Disregard the thumbnail which makes it looks like he blames Bruno for our overall play. If you watch the video that is not the case.

No, I know. He does have a couple of other points - Mainoo being physically overmatched (which I think he's right about, and which is something that limits his impact in the role he's playing) and the body language thing. But he could probably have made them effectively in about two minutes. You could make the case he's making about Bruno's tracking for the goal, though you could also see the case for why he might consider Eriksen to be better placed, once they've both made it back. What is harder to understand is the singular forcus on that, as opposed to how passive Dalot, Evans and arguably also Onana acts in that situation. Also, I don't think you could argue that laxness in tracking back is a general or recurring issue with Bruno. So while we're on the subject of how Youtube works, I'm not overly impressed with an analysis that picks out one element of a complex situation to the exclusion of all others and then wraps that up in a lot of waffle.

 

[Lyng]

No, I know. He does have a couple of other points - Mainoo being physically overmatched (which I think he's right about, and which is something that limits his impact in the role he's playing) and the body language thing. But he could probably have made them effectively in about two minutes. You could make the case he's making about Bruno's tracking for the goal, though you could also see the case for why he might consider Eriksen to be better placed, once they've both made it back. What is harder to understand is the singular forcus on that, as opposed to how passive Dalot, Evans and arguably also Onana acts in that situation. Also, I don't think you could argue that laxness in tracking back is a general or recurring issue with Bruno. So while we're on the subject of how Youtube works, I'm not overly impressed with an analysis that picks out one element of a complex situation to the exclusion of all others and then wraps that up in a lot of waffle.

Thats not his point with Mainoo though. His point is that he needs a different type of partner that makes up for that.
He is spot on about Bruno in that situation. Bruno is in an excellent position to stop Bentacour and there is zero reason for him to simply stand on the line and do nothing. As he points out in the video all the other players where actually covering players. And its not like he doesnt point out how important Bruno is for us.
It honestly seems like you didnt really listen to his points.

 

[justsomebloke]

Thats not his point with Mainoo though. His point is that he needs a different type of partner that makes up for that.
He is spot on about Bruno in that situation. Bruno is in an excellent position to stop Bentacour and there is zero reason for him to simply stand on the line and do nothing. As he points out in the video all the other players where actually covering players. And its not like he doesnt point out how important Bruno is for us.
It honestly seems like you didnt really listen to his points.

Well, I did skip forward a good deal, but I mean who wouldn't. The man never gets to the point.

If Mainoo needs a partner to make up for his limited physicality, you don't think that makes the point that Mainoo struggles with physicality?

His point about Bruno in that situation isn't unreasonable, but there are quite a lot of other things you should focus on as well, if you're trying to make a serious assessment, as opposed to hit that rich vein of clicks that putting it all on Bruno currently represents. Dalot, as is so often his wont, is too passive, fails to get close enough to the winger to interfere with him at all. Evans just gets caught flat-footed and limply allows Bentancur to pass him, and Onana stays on his line rather than go out and challenge the shooter. And by the time all of this happens, Eriksen is much closer to Bentancur than Bruno is.

 

[Lyng]

Well, I did skip forward a good deal, but I mean who wouldn't. The man never gets to the point.

If Mainoo needs a partner to make up for his limited physicality, you don't think that makes the point that Mainoo struggles with physicality?

His point about Bruno in that situation isn't unreasonable, but there are quite a lot of other things you should focus on as well, if you're trying to make a serious assessment, as opposed to hit that rich vein of clicks that putting it all on Bruno currently represents. Dalot, as is so often his wont, is too passive, fails to get close enough to the winger to interfere with him at all. Evans just gets caught flat-footed and limply allows Bentancur to pass him, and Onana stays on his line rather than go out and challenge the shooter. And by the time all of this happens, Eriksen is much closer to Bentancur than Bruno is.

Eriksen is only closer to him at the very point he is about to shoot which is, funny enough, a point he makes. That people will see that picture and blame Eriksen. Eriksen was way higher on the pitch when the transition begins and Bruno was very close to Bentacour all the way but then instead of moving in and blocking he simply runs away. The goal doesnt happen if he does that. Its that simple.

 

[justsomebloke]

Eriksen is only closer to him at the very point he is about to shoot which is, funny enough, a point he makes. That people will see that picture and blame Eriksen. Eriksen was way higher on the pitch when the transition begins and Bruno was very close to Bentacour all the way but then instead of moving in and blocking he simply runs away. The goal doesnt happen if he does that. Its that simple.

Yes, so he says, and it does look like that, but you can't really tell without seeing the whole sequence running, which he doesn't show.

The goal also probably doesn't happen if Dalot gets close enough to his man to seriously impede him, Evans doesn't just stand there or Onana moves out to block the shooter. Try freezing the image at the point where Bentancur receives the ball. There are two players other than Eriksen covering the space he's about to move into - Mainoo and Evans. Mainoo is facing the wrong way and understandably gets turned before he can react effectively (because Garnacho is back too late to help out on the flank, possibly for good reasons), but Evans? I'm not saying you can't fault Bruno for not focusing clearly on Bentancur, and obviously that would have been the right choice as that situation played out. But it's not like that's the only thing there, or the reason why that goal was scored.

 

[Lyng]

Yes, so he says, but you can't really tell without seeing the whole sequence running, which he doesn't show.

The goal also probably doesn't happen if Dalot gets close enough to his man to seriously impede him, Evans doesn't just stand there or Onana moves out to block the shooter.

He shows the entire sequence though, frame by frame

 

[redshaw]

Interesting to hear a non United fans take on why we didnt win.

He makes a good point that it could be another player on another day. We've seen McTom do the same thing, either jog back or not sense the danger. Forest game was similar, a big gap emerging for a cut back or square ball to run and shoot at.

Biggest issue is knackerd or dumb attacking mids, no energy or mindset to help defend, an 18 year old that can't do it all.

Casemiro and Mainoo will be much better but it's still an odd balance of a player at the end and a player at the beginning both players have been mostly absent as well.

McTom is useless defensively as is Bruno. Eriksen is completely knackered and another attacking mid that did ok accommodating last season, mainly passing deeper with Case in the team.

As bad as Fred was, he would at least be a help to cut things like this out and was hugely important in many games. Fred is not the answer either but we've reduced our protection, added more to the treatment table and kept knackered and brainless players.

There also seems to be a lack of coaching and system, like ETH has given up, the players are just waiting for him to go. Probably lots of misgivings about letting Fred go, De gea, the plan with Mount.

Season has been a car crash of not improving the midfield flaws and glaring issues. Instead of adding to our 58 goals we've regressed to about 40 goals. The coaching and setup and plan is a dead duck.

 

[justsomebloke]

He shows the entire sequence though, frame by frame

Does he? Well as mentioned I did skip forward a bit, but I thought I had the whole of that particular sequence. Anyway, it's not really the point, is it - it's not like it's either Bruno or Eriksen entirely to blame for the goal. And Eriksen moving into that space obviously is a factor in Bruno's decision not to. He may arrive too late, but Bruno can't know that when he makes that decision. Again - not saying he made the right call, but it's quite a bit more complicated that mr. Youtube Chatter makes out.

 

[Castia]

Large portions of the game we were outplayed by Spurs B team. If we’re looking for positives we have Martinez back but that was a load of shite yet again in all honesty.


Looking at that heat map explains a lot, the manager is tactically clueless.

 

[Lyng]

Does he? Well as mentioned I did skip forward a bit, but I thought I had the whole of that particular sequence. Anyway, it's not really the point, is it - it's not like it's either Bruno or Eriksen entirely to blame for the goal. And Eriksen moving into that space obviously is a factor in Bruno's decision not to. He may arrive too late, but Bruno can't know that when he makes that decision. Again - not saying he made the right call, but it's quite a bit more complicated that mr. Youtube Chatter makes out.

Well he does cover those things though and his main point with it all, which is also why he says any other game it could one of the other midfielders, is that there is a massive lack of understanding in our team, which points at issues with how we are setup and our coaching.
More often than not our players look like they have no idea where their team mates are which is a massive issue. I am not one of those who thinks Bruno is the issue, but more our setup and lack of plan.

 

[justsomebloke]

Well he does cover those things though and his main point with it all, which is also why he says any other game it could one of the other midfielders, is that there is a massive lack of understanding in our team, which points at issues with how we are setup and our coaching.
More often than not our players look like they have no idea where their team mates are which is a massive issue. I am not one of those who thinks Bruno is the issue, but more our setup and lack of plan.

Okay, fair enough. And I certainly agree we've had more than our share of goals against where runners aren't picked up by the midfielders.

 

[redmanx]

I have been wondering for a long time why is United like United. The spurs game made it a bit more visible, due to the transitional nature of the game. Here’s my take

1- Attacking Gameplan: Our players are one trick ponies. It’s not breaking news but United are not really playing in transition, as Ten hag claims.
Transitional football requires players with a cutting edge, 100% aware positionally, and the next pass, no point of playing in transition if you can’t speed and slow the game at will.
Currently we have players that are throwing hail marry attacks, with no forethought in our approach. This is one of the biggest reasons for inconsistency in performances through this season.
Our touch/ technique under pressure is abysmal. And that’s completely attributed to foundational knowledge, on how these players have been brought up in academies. Be a Ronaldo regen is the aim for them, but not excel in technical aspects of overall game, which a lot of managers prefer over what we have. I miss you Micheal Carrick :’(

2- Defensive Gameplan: People are lamenting Eriksen for his lack of physicality. But that’s something Ten hag is aware of, it’s a known gamble, play McT and get some physicality (still on the fence) or have someone control passing tempo. The major problem imo is Bruno. He has absolutely no positional discipline. Number of times you see him chasing the ball, leading to space in front and back of our midfield 2. His vigour and anxiousness to impress hurts us more than helping.
We are always short of pressure in the middle of the pitch, and that’s not due to a lack of desire. It’s the starting positions of players while defending and game intelligence. That’s what makes us so easy to play against.

Summary: Fans lay blame on Ten Hag, the players for not wanting it enough. Frankly, think of them as employees at a corporation which has no real vision.
A quick signing, changed tactics, nothing can solve the problem we are in and it’s called MISMANAGEMENT and lack of desire at the top. There have been no standards set on what is expected of a player. No real incentive structure for the whole organisation.

In conclusion I hope Ratcliffe doesn’t repeat the sack manager, sign new players approach. Treat this like a giant firm where complacency has set in. Come in, tear the structure down of how daily operations take place, identify redundancy, eliminate, and build from the start. Our fans are impatient, they will cry over the short term results. But the job at hand is far bigger than just performing well one season. In my opinion it is one of the biggest challenges a CEO/ owner will ever face.

Hope this time it’s different.

Ive been saying we should get rid of a number of players who simply are not good enough, past their best or who dont have the right attitude. We pay ridiculous wages to players who seem to be more than happy to sit on the bench, that is of course when theyre "fit" enough or stroll through matches without seeming to give a damn. For a while against Spurs I was starting to think that maybe the players had turned a corner, they were playing, fighting, chasing and pressing and looked like a Manchester United team; how ever, by midway through the second half I had returned to my previous belief and I truly think that of the starting 11 on Sunday only Kobbie Mainoo, Wan Bissaka, Garnacho, Bruno and Hojland deserve to be retained, the rest, including Antony and McTominay should be ditched, along with Martial, Sancho, Lindelof and Shaw. To be fair Dalot played well and perhaps deserves the benefit of the doubt but while Onana did nothing wrong he doesnt exactly fill me with confidence. There needs to be a major rethinking of who and how we recruit and the wages we pay and a massive overhaul of how the club is run if we ever hope to rise above our current level of mediocrity.

 

[Glorio]

Spurs were not that good and the fawning over them was a bit annoying

 

[Craig Ward]

Thats not his point with Mainoo though. His point is that he needs a different type of partner that makes up for that.
He is spot on about Bruno in that situation. Bruno is in an excellent position to stop Bentacour and there is zero reason for him to simply stand on the line and do nothing. As he points out in the video all the other players where actually covering players. And its not like he doesnt point out how important Bruno is for us.
It honestly seems like you didnt really listen to his points.

The beginning of the problem for us here is Eriksen wandering into no mans land, allowing the keeper to pass to Skipp who has absolutely acres. Absolutely mindless wandering costs us, it's always individual errors.

 

[Lyng]

The beginning of the problem for us here is Eriksen wandering into no mans land, allowing the keeper to pass to Skipp who has absolutely acres. Absolutely mindless wandering costs us, it's always individual errors.

But why are they doing this. These are players that have not done this in other systems and teams they have played in.

 

[Maticmaker]

We got a point.
Rashford managed eventually to give a pass to Rasmus.
Mainoo continues to impress.
Couldn't understand why Erikson was played for so long, his legs were gone 30 minutes in.
Elsewhere, the steak pies were better than usual.
Wonder what Jim Ratcliffe thoughts were?

 

[the_cliff]

I mean did you actually think we could until this game? Top 4 has been dead for months now. Top half flatters us.
[/QUOTE]
Well most teams in the top 4 haven't been that good and are also dropping points, would only take us going on a run of 4-5 wins in a row to get us in the top 4 tbh but I don't think we can even go on a run like that.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Yesterday was a decent performance and that's probably a good point.

It would have looked much better point if we'd picked up at least a win against Bournemouth and Forest.

 

[sugar_kane]

The narrative after last night is fairly confusing.

If Spurs are better than us (not disagreeing) then it is a good result for us, not for them.

The press and seemingly our own fans want to claim it was somehow a case of both Spurs being a better team and it also being a bad result for us.

That aside, I don't really understand why everyone is pretending to be shocked that we didn't beat one of the better teams in the league. A point is an okay result considering how shit we've been.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The narrative after last night is fairly confusing.

If Spurs are better than us (not disagreeing) then it is a good result for us, not for them.

The press and seemingly our own fans want to claim it was somehow a case of both Spurs being a better team and it also being a bad result for us.

That aside, I don't really understand why everyone is pretending to be shocked that we didn't beat one of the better teams in the league. A point is an okay result considering how shit we've been.

Maybe it is the sad realisation that this is where we are at as a club, not expected to beat Spurs. It shouldn't be like that. This is how far we have fallen.

 

[justsomebloke]

Maybe it is the sad realisation that this is where we are at as a club, not expected to beat Spurs. It shouldn't be like that. This is how far we have fallen.

Well, City drew 3-3 against them at home and Arsenal ditto 2-2, so this really wouldn't have been an embarassing result even if we were a top team.

 

[sugar_kane]

Maybe it is the sad realisation that this is where we are at as a club, not expected to beat Spurs. It shouldn't be like that. This is how far we have fallen.

Fair but anyone only just realising this must have had their eyes closed, we've been in free fall for a decade.

 

[cyril C]

Yesterday was a decent performance and that's probably a good point.

It would have looked much better point if we'd picked up at least a win against Bournemouth and Forest.

Agree. some senior players such as Eriksen didn't show up at all, result might have been different had McTom replaced Eriksen on the 15th min, We were playing with 10 men whole time.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Well, City drew 3-3 against them at home and Arsenal ditto 2-2, so this really wouldn't have been an embarassing result even if we were a top team.

Yep. As I said, purely in isolation, it's a good draw.

The problem is the dropped points in other matches meant yesterday was probably a must win.

 

[Zed 101]

It just shows the ineptitude of another manager other than ETH... the only way we get a result this season is if the opposition plays a high line or we get a streaky break, seriously all you have to do to beat utd is defend and we will just gift you goals the other end.

Yet again midfield balance is the biggest issue, was disappointed with Eriksen he had been pretty useful in cameos recently, was hoping we would see a Casemiro switch instead of McT, I think realistically he and Mainoo plus an attacking mid is our best option, McT (if used) should be for Rasmus not a mid, even then he had the opportunities to set up/score a winner and fluffed his lines, think the fairy-tale might be over

First half Bruno's forward passing was consistently on song, seems like the law of averages caught up with him second half

Thought Dalot and AWB both did well although AWB at LB cannot attack it seems, would like to see them in these positions over a few more games but looked good(ish)

Evans should have done more to stop the 2nd goal, was just weird to watch but then so should Onana, Evans kept getting stranded upfield, if one of the CBs should be pushing forward surely it should be Varanne?

Over all TBH we were pretty shite but actually better than I expected going in, the bar is just so low at the moment I am relatively satisfied with not getting thumped as being a decent showing

Garnacho was a pen IMO Udogie physically lifts him off the ground.... who does that?.... just so bizarre that it looks soft, but in reality no different than if he had hauled him back by his shoulders

 

[Red Dreams]

You’re right, but even with Casemiro and Mainoo its still really insufficient, especially if we want to start bossing games and playing with creativity.

Unfortunately we are so shallow in options.
We have problems in all areas.

Why it will take a couple of years at least by SJR to get us to have a squad that can actually compete with the best teams in the league.
We are at least 3 years away from us seriously even talking about the title.

 

[Belisarius]

Hojlunds goal was his only shot in that game. The chance came becasue he collected a loose ball, just like he did against Villa. Poor lad.

ive read somewhere that his xG for the whole season was something around 3.5….not enough service with selfish wingers

To me it looked like Marcus back-heeled it to him. You really think it was just Marcus was tackled and the ball knocked loose to Hojlund?

 

[Belisarius]

Just seen the replay of the Garnacho penalty incident on MotD. It's a clear penalty, the defender has both his arms around his body such that he can't move.

How that isn't seen as a penalty I can't understand.

It's a penalty every day of the week. Except, apparently if it happens against Manchester United.

 

[Belisarius]

And Ericson, in the second half, gets penalised for a very similar but weaker version.

But them side by side and it's unbelievable

I saw that too. A little tug and the Spurs players falls over and gets a free kick. If it's a free kick there, it's a foul in the penalty area as well. Particularly because it wasn't a little tug on Garnacho, he wrapped him up with two hands.

 

[Belisarius]

Why, because Bruno didn't chase down Bentancur for the second goal, leaving him to Eriksen instead? He only takes 12 minutes of chatter before getting to the point too.

For feck's sake. He was our best player yesterday. Judging from the player ratings, I can only assume that at this stage, people have just decided who they like and who they don't, and see what they have decided to see.

Agreed. I had Bruno as my man of the match.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Stop playing Scot McTominay for gods sake

Crazy comment. Was better than so many players. Actually gets in positions to score.

 

[redmanx]

Yep. As I said, purely in isolation, it's a good draw.

The problem is the dropped points in other matches meant yesterday was probably a must win.

The only good things we can take from this match are Hojlunds goal and the return of Martinez, the rest was dross, and Rashfords pathetic "celebration" for his goal in which he seems to have a dig at those who have been critical of his performances was pure petulance; he's been poor for months and plays with a face that looks like a smacked arse. Well, his poor form is down to himself and nobody else; one goal doesnt make a season.