PL W FA Premier League
Manchester United 2:0 Sunderland
Post-match discussion
Sat, 28 February 2015
Quality players make the team better if those players are used how they should. If I had a super car, would I use it has a rally car? Exactly.
De Gea
Rafael - Smalling - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Blind
Di Maria - Januzaj - Young
Rooney
Next game please.
Rafael - Smalling - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Blind
Di Maria - Januzaj - Young
Rooney
Next game please.
In terms of controlling the game we did well, as an attacking force we were pretty awful at times. It took a penalty to get the breakthrough and even when they were down to ten men we still didn't look that convincing.
Still, three points is all that really counts.
Still, three points is all that really counts.
Three points:
1. Sunderland are dire. They only created chances when they were gifted possession.
2. Blind and Herrera are lightweight defensively, but their quick movement and passing made LVG's style of play work. We finally wore a team out by moving the ball laterally until they lost concentration.
3. Having wide players that can cut in or go around the outside was killing Sunderland. In the first half they could compress their defense because Di Maria only wanted to cut inside. When Januzaj and Young were the wide players they were tormented for the entire half. Young looked like the player we thought we were signing. He was cutting in to great effect and when the fullback sold out on that he was effortlessly going wide and punishing the fullback.
1. Sunderland are dire. They only created chances when they were gifted possession.
2. Blind and Herrera are lightweight defensively, but their quick movement and passing made LVG's style of play work. We finally wore a team out by moving the ball laterally until they lost concentration.
3. Having wide players that can cut in or go around the outside was killing Sunderland. In the first half they could compress their defense because Di Maria only wanted to cut inside. When Januzaj and Young were the wide players they were tormented for the entire half. Young looked like the player we thought we were signing. He was cutting in to great effect and when the fullback sold out on that he was effortlessly going wide and punishing the fullback.
Everytime we win comfortably, I'm put infront of my own fickleness, after the game I'm convinced that we have a good base to build on.
Our defense is not that bad, our midfield is functional and our attack has some talents. If we were able to press with more effectiveness we would be very dangerous.
The same 4-4-2 with a high pressing and we are fine.
Our defense is not that bad, our midfield is functional and our attack has some talents. If we were able to press with more effectiveness we would be very dangerous.
The same 4-4-2 with a high pressing and we are fine.
Unlucky first half and could have easily been a couple up. I liked the formation, just need better quality in certain positions. Still think we are a midfielder short
Overall, I must say, this was quite a decent performance. We're certainly heading in the right direction, and finally, we start with a formation that provides us some proper width.
van Gaal's methods are starting to sink into the team, which is great to see. We're passing the ball around quicker, and we're creating more spaces in the middle than before. Thankfully, this is down to the width that Young and di Maria/Januzaj provided. In the end, van Gaal always gets back to the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1, and I hope he sticks with this from here on in.
One problem that I noticed is that we badly miss that creative #10 that is a huge component of any of van Gaal's teams. Rooney is not creative enough behind the striker as he's more of a goalscorer than a creator, and this requires us to have a creative player from central midfield trying to take risks, which conflicts with what van Gaal wants from his central midfielders. For the whole match, our main creative outlets were from the wide areas whilst we had barely any from the middle. This match was perfect for Mata as he's a very creative #10 whilst still being a good goalscorer (van Gaal's ideal #10, in a way). No wonder our players looked more ponderous in the final third through the middle.
However, I do understand why he put Falcao up front. With his wide players also being creative outlets, we need a presence in the box to get on the end of crosses. Playing Rooney up front with Mata will make it easier for Sunderland to defend crosses into the box, and we'll be forced to try to create chances through the middle, the same area Sunderland would have congested. Instead, with Falcao being great in the air (even if he is off form; just look at how many of his goals are headers), we have the wide as well as the middle areas to create chances from. Sadly, di Maria wasn't at his best, whilst Falcao was poor on the ball along with not getting much service. The second half was much better in this regard even if we were down to 10 men.
One huge, huge problem that I notice is that we are still very poor at pressing the opposition. How is it that we always give the opposition player an option when we're pressing them? How are we so poor at pressing the opposition and quickly closing down their options with players like Herrera, di Maria, Blind, and Valencia, all of whom are very good at pressing the opposition and closing down their options? Herrera, Blind, and di Maria all played under coaches who are very good at implementing the pressing game (Bielsa, Jorge Jesus, Mourinho, de Boer, and van Gaal himself), yet, even with these players, we are still poor at closing down the opposition! I feel like I've said this too often, but we really need to sort out our pressing game; otherwise, we'll be conceding chances far too often.
van Gaal's methods are starting to sink into the team, which is great to see. We're passing the ball around quicker, and we're creating more spaces in the middle than before. Thankfully, this is down to the width that Young and di Maria/Januzaj provided. In the end, van Gaal always gets back to the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1, and I hope he sticks with this from here on in.
One problem that I noticed is that we badly miss that creative #10 that is a huge component of any of van Gaal's teams. Rooney is not creative enough behind the striker as he's more of a goalscorer than a creator, and this requires us to have a creative player from central midfield trying to take risks, which conflicts with what van Gaal wants from his central midfielders. For the whole match, our main creative outlets were from the wide areas whilst we had barely any from the middle. This match was perfect for Mata as he's a very creative #10 whilst still being a good goalscorer (van Gaal's ideal #10, in a way). No wonder our players looked more ponderous in the final third through the middle.
However, I do understand why he put Falcao up front. With his wide players also being creative outlets, we need a presence in the box to get on the end of crosses. Playing Rooney up front with Mata will make it easier for Sunderland to defend crosses into the box, and we'll be forced to try to create chances through the middle, the same area Sunderland would have congested. Instead, with Falcao being great in the air (even if he is off form; just look at how many of his goals are headers), we have the wide as well as the middle areas to create chances from. Sadly, di Maria wasn't at his best, whilst Falcao was poor on the ball along with not getting much service. The second half was much better in this regard even if we were down to 10 men.
One huge, huge problem that I notice is that we are still very poor at pressing the opposition. How is it that we always give the opposition player an option when we're pressing them? How are we so poor at pressing the opposition and quickly closing down their options with players like Herrera, di Maria, Blind, and Valencia, all of whom are very good at pressing the opposition and closing down their options? Herrera, Blind, and di Maria all played under coaches who are very good at implementing the pressing game (Bielsa, Jorge Jesus, Mourinho, de Boer, and van Gaal himself), yet, even with these players, we are still poor at closing down the opposition! I feel like I've said this too often, but we really need to sort out our pressing game; otherwise, we'll be conceding chances far too often.
My thoughts:
Hopefully Shaw manges to gain fitness soon, as I would like us to play him, Falcao, and Herrera continually in a 4231 considering the games we have coming up.
- Despite a nervous start, we looked much better playing with width.
- Falcao looked much more suited to the system we played, especially when Rooney dropped a little deeper (into the No.10 position) in the second half.
- We created far, far more chances and half-chances than we have in any other game this season I believe (even before the sending off).
- Chris Smalling is our best central defender. People will still debate if this is a good or a bad thing, as it could mean that none of our defenders are 'good enough'. Regardless, he's the best, so we need to play him when he's fit.
- Herrera can make us tick in midfield.
- I even forgot Evans was playing.
Hopefully Shaw manges to gain fitness soon, as I would like us to play him, Falcao, and Herrera continually in a 4231 considering the games we have coming up.
Much better in the second half. Very pleasing to see the amount of attempts we had on goal and also on target, which have been lacking an awful lot in the last few months. We were very positive going forward with the ball in the second half as well.
Imagine if the entire team pressed like Blind and Herrera.
I reckon van Gaal must be VERY happy with this performance. We handed them a couple of chances but other than that, we were in full control of the game. Slow tempo and little risk- not the football we want to see but clearly it’s his philosophy (for now). If we get results like today we can’t complain really.
Second half so much better than the first. We were too slow initially, never going to score like that. Once we got the goal though it was much better. We deserved the win, Sunderland offered little in attack.
One thing's for sure, if anyone had doubts that van Gaal's just trying to play big names every match, then the di Maria and Falcao substitutions should quash those thoughts.
Louis van Gaal said he did not much like our last home win, 3-1 against Burnley, and he will have liked this one even less. Once again we were far from fluent, once again the visitors were a shade unlucky, but once again the three points moved us up the table to keep alive Champions League hopes. We are flattered by our present position, tucked in behind Chelsea and Manchester City, yet we have been there for most of the season and despite appearing to be there for the taking we are still getting away with it.
I don't think he cares about the names. Its all about the squad for him. And that includes RvP.
This game was actually very similar to Swansea. Lots of possession, building lots of pressure but lacked imagination and penetration. Falcao did not have a good game but his contribution cannot be underplayed. That won the game and failing to cancel that substitution was dreadful man management. Van Gaal went out of his way to praise him after the game but it was too late. With Van Persie out United need Falcao firing for the upcoming games. A goal or 2 vs 10 men would have been huge for him.
Januzaj played his best game of the season by a long way. Being positive and making an impact off the bench is crucial for him. Herrera and Blind were very good in midfield again today. Smalling and Rojo solid again. Young is having an incredible season. I didn't think he had it in him.
The comments above being delighted that Southampton and West Ham have dropped points? Has it really come to that?!
Januzaj played his best game of the season by a long way. Being positive and making an impact off the bench is crucial for him. Herrera and Blind were very good in midfield again today. Smalling and Rojo solid again. Young is having an incredible season. I didn't think he had it in him.
The comments above being delighted that Southampton and West Ham have dropped points? Has it really come to that?!
But it's taken a lot of poor performances to get Louis to finally sub them off. The case for starting Falcao was actually very weak. In truth, Di Maria as well.
You really need to calm down as it feels like I hit a nerve or something. I felt during the summer and in the past few years in general, a lot of our fans were whinging about the Glazers, Fergie, Moyes and everyone about our lack of spending and that it was the one and only factor for us not doing well or better under Fergie. I am arguing that it's never that black and white and that recruitment is only one part of a successful team. Some of our fans give the impression that it is the ONLY decisive factor. You talk about Di Maria's motivation and whatnot and that's exactly my point, we go out buy a world class a player but it's not smooth sailing, there could be problem with motivation, effort, acclimatization to a new league and many other variable so who's to say the same won't happen with somebody else. Of course that doesn't mean we should not look for the best players, it just means that we can't expect all our problems to be solved through recruitment.
I can understand the Southampton one even though I have no doubt that they are gonna finish below us. The West Ham one is just drama queenish.
I don't normally do these post-match opinions as most people are kneejerk and what not but I'm bored so here goes:
Didn't think we were great again. I think Van Gaal has the right idea in trying to create a team that can control matches and build from the back, but you can see most of our players aren't suited to the system. Our one touch play (or lack of) slows us down far too much. Particularly our main attackers have loose first touches, mainly Di Maria, Falcao and Rooney - especially when you compare to other slow tempo teams like Bayern or Barcelona.
Our defending wasn't perfect either today, Blind and Rooney were careless a few times in our own half. Smalling had a few shaky moments at the beginning dribbling out and had a few bumpy passes but he grew into the game well. I think we'll see a big change in our defense in the summer as even today when we had no pressure on the ball, we still were poor from the back. Smalling and Evans don't fill me with confidence either, no matter what people say about Smalling here - he still does is far away from the standard we need here.
Attacking wise, Adnan was great. Herrera put in a shift and did well. Rooney was standard good day Rooney, lots of mileage, doing a lot of decent work but still a bit sloppy and lacking creativity. It's pretty hard to see how we are going to fit in a side with all our attackers still. Van Persie is our best striker, Rooney is undroppable but has big weaknesses in this philosophy, without considering Di Maria ,Mata, Januzaj and Falcao. I still think playing a much more open and faster style would get the best out of Rooney and Di Maria,and benefit the side more.
Didn't think we were great again. I think Van Gaal has the right idea in trying to create a team that can control matches and build from the back, but you can see most of our players aren't suited to the system. Our one touch play (or lack of) slows us down far too much. Particularly our main attackers have loose first touches, mainly Di Maria, Falcao and Rooney - especially when you compare to other slow tempo teams like Bayern or Barcelona.
Our defending wasn't perfect either today, Blind and Rooney were careless a few times in our own half. Smalling had a few shaky moments at the beginning dribbling out and had a few bumpy passes but he grew into the game well. I think we'll see a big change in our defense in the summer as even today when we had no pressure on the ball, we still were poor from the back. Smalling and Evans don't fill me with confidence either, no matter what people say about Smalling here - he still does is far away from the standard we need here.
Attacking wise, Adnan was great. Herrera put in a shift and did well. Rooney was standard good day Rooney, lots of mileage, doing a lot of decent work but still a bit sloppy and lacking creativity. It's pretty hard to see how we are going to fit in a side with all our attackers still. Van Persie is our best striker, Rooney is undroppable but has big weaknesses in this philosophy, without considering Di Maria ,Mata, Januzaj and Falcao. I still think playing a much more open and faster style would get the best out of Rooney and Di Maria,and benefit the side more.
Seems like a lot of our fans are too spoiled and will always find something to moan about. We won with 75% possesion and 30 shots controlling the whole match yet people still try and find the negatives in it all.
Was really impressed today not perfect no but getting there. Enjoyed watching a lot of the football on another day could have been 3/4.
Was really impressed today not perfect no but getting there. Enjoyed watching a lot of the football on another day could have been 3/4.
?
http://www.theguardian.com/football...united-sunderland-premier-league-match-report
Louis van Gaal said he did not much like Manchester United’s last home win, 3-1 against Burnley, and he will have liked this one even less. Once again United were far from fluent, once again the visitors were a shade unlucky, but once again the three points moved the home side up the table to keep alive Champions League hopes. United are flattered by their present position, tucked in behind Chelsea and Manchester City, yet they have been there for most of the season and despite appearing to be there for the taking they are still getting away with it.
Needham is some kinda bot?It's obvious the journo's troll the forums (I was once quoted from here in the independent I think but was referenced) whoever wrote the article is guilty of plagiarism of the highest order. Could get embarrassing for him I'd send him an email.
Maybe Needham is the journo though?
I noticed that sometimes the guardian or other media magically found us transfer targets after they were mentioned in here first. Most of the time, we just wanted opinion on certain players who may suit our style or improve us.
Grounds for a swift boot in the ass for the journo in question.
Although wait a second. The Guardian article is from yesterday, 1707 GMT. @Needham 's post is from today, 0009 GMT?
They constantly monitor the forums more and more for footy intelligence. They are easy to catch out. What makes me laugh is when a post has an unusual word, the journos plagarise not only the post but take the word. The Torygraph and the Fail are particular culprits. We should start a new thread, 'the daily plagarise'.
have only just managed to watch the full game
it's quite my game plan too. just i started jones ahead of evans and januzaj ahead of young.
you like it or not, this was a back three lineup when we were in the defense mode. when we got the possession then it expanded with rojo occupying the wide area and pushed up young. it's a fusion and indeed we played quite a few games like this during the mid way of the first half and the results were quite good too if i'm not wrong. i expect this setup will continue for the rest of the season
the first half was in fact not that bad too, just the game was not run in high tempo and we only managed to do it when the game got in to the 2nd half. anytime in our good old days such a game would be regarded as another week in week out one to getting the job done.
now we can all observe we do have a structure for our play way. for the season up until now so far, our players have happened to be very cautious and i believe this is because there is a new system that they need to follow. if we can continue to conduct our play in such way then the next step i can expect to see is, our players could have be getting themselves into the game in a more free hand manner. maybe we can see we are clicking somewhere from now on before the end of the season.
it's quite my game plan too. just i started jones ahead of evans and januzaj ahead of young.
you like it or not, this was a back three lineup when we were in the defense mode. when we got the possession then it expanded with rojo occupying the wide area and pushed up young. it's a fusion and indeed we played quite a few games like this during the mid way of the first half and the results were quite good too if i'm not wrong. i expect this setup will continue for the rest of the season
the first half was in fact not that bad too, just the game was not run in high tempo and we only managed to do it when the game got in to the 2nd half. anytime in our good old days such a game would be regarded as another week in week out one to getting the job done.
now we can all observe we do have a structure for our play way. for the season up until now so far, our players have happened to be very cautious and i believe this is because there is a new system that they need to follow. if we can continue to conduct our play in such way then the next step i can expect to see is, our players could have be getting themselves into the game in a more free hand manner. maybe we can see we are clicking somewhere from now on before the end of the season.
Perhaps the worst moment for us came midway through the first-half, when a Young corner flew the entire Sunderland area and found its way back to De Gea within seconds, via Daley Blind and Jonny Evans, prompting howls of derision from the home fans. A chant of 'Attack, attack, attack!' came from the Stretford End, which seemed to briefly rally us, as we played with more purpose and fluency. Rooney forced a save from Costel Pantilimon with a dipping free-kick, while a Marcos Rojo shot was blocked by Sebastian Larsson.
I was encouraged by this performance. Last game I was at was Southampton and I couldn't really say anyone had a good match there. Though I still thought we deserved to win. This time though Rooney, Blind, and Valencia all had good games and Young for me was man of the match, a really great performance. Falcao I have time for too. He's being asked to hold the ball up which he's just not equipped for but he kept trying. Like they said on Motd though he needs to start running off the ball more. Got a great round of applause by the crowd - who know an honest player when they see one.
Also encouraging was the performance of Januzaj. He looks like he's getting back to his best and scaring full backs again. Di Maria was fairly woeful and although Smalling was much better in the second half he was bad the first. Says a lot about the caf that he's still third in the MotM vote!
Overall though encouraging signs and credit to LVG for the switch at half time.
Also encouraging was the performance of Januzaj. He looks like he's getting back to his best and scaring full backs again. Di Maria was fairly woeful and although Smalling was much better in the second half he was bad the first. Says a lot about the caf that he's still third in the MotM vote!
Overall though encouraging signs and credit to LVG for the switch at half time.
You could sense the frustration in the crowd before and that was the final straw really. Amazing moment of hive mind pressure! Tbf I think the players also realised at that moment they had to step it up. But the crowd certainly helped.
How would a more "open" style "benefit" us better? The same team you clearly have defensive reservations about.
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Set piece? Hardly. The pen came about from us creating an opening in the box. Falcao would have scored for sure. That's hardly relying on a set piece.
On point two, we did exactly the same against QPR. I think that is the way LVG likes to play, but we're not quite there yet. Ot perhaps he uses that way if playing against certain teams. Young was excellent.
I'll second that. People seem to be fixated on our short comings. We havent been anything special this decade but I swear some people go on like we used to be Barca.
We cause a lot of our own problems trying to play from the back, our playing poor passes into our attackers. I really meant more direct rather than open. We still aren't great at the back, but we aren't very good going forward either. Need to try find a better balance between attacking and defending I think.
I'd damage myself with a spoon if we swapped ADM for fecking Cavani.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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25%
Ashley Young
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21%
Chris Smalling
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13%
Adnan Januzaj
-
11%
Ander Herrera
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1%
Daley Blind
-
1%
Radamel Falcao
-
1%
David de Gea
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 523 ratings.
Score Predictions
483,27,42
- Man Utd win
- Sunderland win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 21% Man Utd 3:0 Sunderland
- 19% Man Utd 2:0 Sunderland
- 13% Man Utd 3:1 Sunderland
- 12% Man Utd 2:1 Sunderland
- 7% Man Utd 4:0 Sunderland
- 6% Man Utd 5:0 Sunderland
- 5% Man Utd 1:0 Sunderland
- 4% Man Utd 1:1 Sunderland
- 2% Man Utd 0:0 Sunderland
- 2% Man Utd 4:1 Sunderland
- 2% Man Utd 2:2 Sunderland
- 1% Man Utd 1:2 Sunderland
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Sunderland
- 1% Man Utd 5:1 Sunderland
- 1% Man Utd 0:5 Sunderland
- 1% Man Utd 3:2 Sunderland
- 0% Man Utd 4:3 Sunderland
- 0% Man Utd 1:3 Sunderland
- 0% Man Utd 0:2 Sunderland
- 0% Man Utd 1:5 Sunderland
- 0% Man Utd 5:5 Sunderland
- 0% Man Utd 0:4 Sunderland
- 0% Man Utd 3:5 Sunderland
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Sunderland
- Possession
- 73% 27%
- Shots
- 30 5
- Shots on Target
- 10 3
- Corners
- 13 1
- Fouls
- 6 11
Referee
Roger East
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Adnan Januzaj
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replaced by Marouane Fellaini
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replaced by Juan Mata
