We played well in moments, but ultimately if you get dominated in CM you're usually going to lose. And Kroos + Modric will dominate Herrera + Pogba ten times out of ten like they will just about anyone in world football. Those two, plus the emerging Casemiro (who is only going to get better with more experience) is just so hard to stay close to, let alone outplay.
SC L UEFA Super Cup
Real Madrid 2:1 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Tue, 08 August 2017
Worst for me would be one of Pogba, Herrera and Lingard. If I am forced to choose, I'll go for Pogba.
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Not playing Martial in the last 15 minutes was a poor decision. It was a one-goal deficit, and Martial, inconsistent as he is, could have been a game-changer. Or, was Mourinho preserving him for the extra time if it happened?
Madrid looked comfortable tbh. Like if we scored 2, they could have gone and scored a third happily. Maybe we just had an off day, but we really don't have a left wing. I hope this is a kick up the arse to go out and buy someone or give Martial a shot.
Once again we are not creating enough chances, and not finishing them when we do.
Building bit by bit, we're far better than we were this time last year.
We started well and then done well after their second. We won't play anyone in the PL who will be as good.
We started well and then done well after their second. We won't play anyone in the PL who will be as good.
Totally with you on that mate. If our 'big' players consistently show up in games, we'll be a very difficult opponent even for the best teams in the world.
My worry is that they don't always show up. Pogba especially. Immensely talented lad but when you badly need him, he goes missing.
So many posts/comments in this thread seem to keep repeating that we need a new signing! Every time we lose a game people say, we are not ready, we need a new signing, this is not enough blah blah.
Football is a game. You win some, you lose some. We have a good team which played well against the best team in Europe right now. It's before the real season has started. Get a grip. Every club needs to build a team to be successful and the team needs to play together. The manager needs to adapt to form of players, preferences, what's natural to them in games etc. The biggest example of this is Fellaini. Almost all United fans have written him off at times, but Jose knows what he can do for the team when we have our backs against the wall. Yesterday was a clear example of that. He is clearly not our starting midfielder, but when used to his strengths, he can bring diversity to our squad.
I'm hoping there are no more signings this summer, and Zlatan comes back in January. With the current squad, we should be able to have a good and exciting season. Hopefully win the Premier League. Also - if we are playing Madrid etc. in May next year, the game may be very different as our players will have the confidence that comes with getting to a semi or a final of the Champions League. Fingers crossed.
Football is a game. You win some, you lose some. We have a good team which played well against the best team in Europe right now. It's before the real season has started. Get a grip. Every club needs to build a team to be successful and the team needs to play together. The manager needs to adapt to form of players, preferences, what's natural to them in games etc. The biggest example of this is Fellaini. Almost all United fans have written him off at times, but Jose knows what he can do for the team when we have our backs against the wall. Yesterday was a clear example of that. He is clearly not our starting midfielder, but when used to his strengths, he can bring diversity to our squad.
I'm hoping there are no more signings this summer, and Zlatan comes back in January. With the current squad, we should be able to have a good and exciting season. Hopefully win the Premier League. Also - if we are playing Madrid etc. in May next year, the game may be very different as our players will have the confidence that comes with getting to a semi or a final of the Champions League. Fingers crossed.
People going crazy. Our midfield will be fine, because funny enough we won't be playing the best midfield on the planet every week. What we do need is either specialist wingbacks or if he deserts the 3 at the back we need wingers. We can all now see why he needed Perisic. Mhki is a worry, at times he just seems completely disinteresed. Lindelof needs time, which unfortunately due to suspensions he isn't gettting. With Bailly and Jones back he will be used more sparingly to get used to the pace of the game here.
Why didn't Jose use a third sub with Mata, Martial on the bench when we need a goal. It's things like these that pisses me off about him, even at that point he feels an attacking sub will weaken the defence.
Not sure what the moaners are on about. Madrid are by far the best side in Europe and we were close to nicking it. We were also very close to taking the lead (Mkhi is still probably nagging Pogba about why he didn't pass!) and had Lukaku and Rashford missing easy chances. Sure, they hit the woodwork twice, but we weren't a million miles from them which should be fine - considering we should by rights, be trailing them by far more.
Pogba and Herrera will have better games (they won't face Kroos-Modric every week!) and Lingard have and Darmian will hopefully get dropped as we get more bodies back. All said and done, if anything, this game boxed well for the season to come. Our finishing and set-piece delivery though just has to improve... The missed chances and wasted FKs / corners were at times beyond dire!
Pogba and Herrera will have better games (they won't face Kroos-Modric every week!) and Lingard have and Darmian will hopefully get dropped as we get more bodies back. All said and done, if anything, this game boxed well for the season to come. Our finishing and set-piece delivery though just has to improve... The missed chances and wasted FKs / corners were at times beyond dire!
Because this is Real Madrid. Look at their record, its a long term project, best team in the world. Major rebuild going on at United.
Good question. I would say a combination of
(1) The rot has been going on a long, long time
(2) British football vs European elite football; culture, climate, length of season, etc.
(3) Poor decision making at United.
While you kind of answer yourself here, I don't agree with your figures, or the level of rebuild needed. It's a work in progress. I would argue that the team that will compete successfully in England and in Europe has not yet been built. Fellani is a kind of manager's answer to this; tough and competitive and ready to give his all for the shirt. He played excellently yesterday. Your needless sideswipe at him (and indeed Lingard) doesn't add to your argument. The Glazers? Long old story, let's sit down at the fire with mad old uncle Roy and listen to horse stories. But we don't see too many green shirts around the club these days; and I am afraid that bird has flown. We might envy Real Madrid their ownership structure, sure. But the United owners have shown a willingness to invest; they look like perfect little angels when compared to some club owners these says.
Lingard was the worst by a mile. May as well have stayed on the bus. Formation didn't help him, mind, but he was beyond anonymous. Added so little that when Rashford came on, it seemed like we had an extra player compared to before.
How long are we going to be in rebuild mode ? How much will it cost for the rebuild to finish ?
Real was the best team in Europe last season, so it's "ok" to lose against them, however, I hate that the gap between United and Real is increasing. They are a class above us and they showed that. If we score the second, they just shift into a higher gear and make the third.
Real Madrid - Manchester United
Possession: 63% - 37%
Fouls: 10 - 17
Corners: 8 - 2
Shots: 16 - 14 (the best part of the stats)
Real Madrid - Manchester United
Possession: 63% - 37%
Fouls: 10 - 17
Corners: 8 - 2
Shots: 16 - 14 (the best part of the stats)
In my view there were some positives & negatives from game
Positives:
1. Build up play from back was very refreshing before fellaini's arrival we played nice passes under pressure along the ground hardly hoofed any ball.
2. Matic passing was so good was very much like watching carrick in his prime.
3. Had we buried the chances we created We would have easily won the game (rashford, lukaku and fellaini chance).
Negatives:
1. Our off the ball movement was nearly non existent. I know Jose plays very tactically and he wants players in specific position but sometimes you have to give a man on ball an option to pass
2. We don't shield the ball well under pressure and ends up giving to the opposition team most of the time.
3. For real's second goal we were carved open with a simple one two we should have done better and it wasn't the only occasion we were opened up need to do lot better having said that Real movement last night was irresistible.
4. Need to be ruthless in front of goals can't miss so many chances in big games finishing needs to improve.
5. Few players in our team need to step and be the difference maker to have any chance of winning a trophy this season.
Positives:
1. Build up play from back was very refreshing before fellaini's arrival we played nice passes under pressure along the ground hardly hoofed any ball.
2. Matic passing was so good was very much like watching carrick in his prime.
3. Had we buried the chances we created We would have easily won the game (rashford, lukaku and fellaini chance).
Negatives:
1. Our off the ball movement was nearly non existent. I know Jose plays very tactically and he wants players in specific position but sometimes you have to give a man on ball an option to pass
2. We don't shield the ball well under pressure and ends up giving to the opposition team most of the time.
3. For real's second goal we were carved open with a simple one two we should have done better and it wasn't the only occasion we were opened up need to do lot better having said that Real movement last night was irresistible.
4. Need to be ruthless in front of goals can't miss so many chances in big games finishing needs to improve.
5. Few players in our team need to step and be the difference maker to have any chance of winning a trophy this season.
We have been in a "proper" rebuild for about one year only.
The thing that makes the period looks longer is due to Moyes and LVG fecking the team up in 3 seasons. If we had got a proper manager between SAF era and Jose appointment we would have been in a much, much better state now.
The team is on the right track on the players we are bringing since Jose arrived and I have no doubt we will come good sooner rather than later.
Okay if youre happy with how we are doing fair enkugh. I would like the try to win the league.
Honestly I don't know, the team has improved slightly than under LVG but I doubt Mourinho is the man to take us to our best. Need a manager that is positive in attacking.
They dominated us in the midfield. Thankfully we won't face any midfield in the PL or even UCL(Unless we face them again)which is even near to the quality they have. Isco, Casemiro, Modric and Kroos are just cheating.
Somehow we got three clear cut chances and should've scored from all three. I don't know why Mourinho subbed off Mkhitaryan after 70 mins and switched Rashford on to the right side and Martial to the left.
Somehow we got three clear cut chances and should've scored from all three. I don't know why Mourinho subbed off Mkhitaryan after 70 mins and switched Rashford on to the right side and Martial to the left.
When we play 3 CBs out wingbacks should be lot more adventurous. They should be bursting their gut to make runs on the wings when we win possession. Few times Valencia did but still we lack that big time. Our wingbacks should be attacking the box and add the numbers in the attack all the time which didn't happen imo.
What Mcmanaman said in post-match analysis was really true, with other teams you know their best 11, with United, you never know, you can said best 6 or 7, but 4 or 5 places in the field can be changed easily
Of all the players, I think only De Gea, Valencia, Pogba, Matic, Baily and Lukaku are guaranteed starter, the wide players especially are still a concern as nobody is consistent enough
Of all the players, I think only De Gea, Valencia, Pogba, Matic, Baily and Lukaku are guaranteed starter, the wide players especially are still a concern as nobody is consistent enough
I would agree with this. My only difference would be emphasis. I think SAF stayed on three years too long and contributed significantly to the rot. Then he made Moyes his predecessor; total disaster. I think LVG had his flaws but also helped in many subtle ways that may be appreciated more in the future. I admit I had my doubts about Jose but yes, you are right re "proper" rebuild, it is only one year old.
We still have some of the same issues as last season, mainly off the ball movement, no clear gameplan when it comes to attacking and, on top, having huge gaps during games, ranging from playing very well to very poor.
Probably in case fella had to come off
I don't understand Mkhi, had really high hopes for him. But seems like he can only contribute as a #10. Besides his pass to let Rashford on for a one v one with the keeper, I fail to see what he contributed of note in that game, lost the ball too often. The contrast with Isco couldn't be more glaring.
Tactically we were outdone till Felllaini came on. Don't understand how Martial gets overlooked. We are automatically too narrow when two of Mata, Mhiki and Lingard are on the pitch. But its been deployed so often to no positive effect I can only assume its by design to stuff the middle of the pitch and provoke errors from the opposition...
I think some of the below-par performances could be attributed to a general lack of cohesion due to new arrivals and being a bit overwhelmed by the technicality of Real's game.
There is work to be done, and we really need to improve building play from the back but I wonder if that is possible whilst we constantly have 10 men behind the ball, we need to defend better individually and improve our positioning.
Pogba got a right old school bo**ocking by Lingard for going solo on the break when two obvious free options either side of him presented itself early in the game. It took Pogba a bit out of it, and I felt he never really recovered confidence wise there on.
Well at least we won't go into the season feeling overconfident because West Ham's squad is not too shabby if you ask me.
Mkhi needs to do more defensive work if he wants to be our no.10. Can't just let people drift past him without pressing them. Alternatively he needs to bang 20 goals like Alli.
Shocking management from Mourinho. No more 352, especially not with a team full of DMs.
Shocking management from Mourinho. No more 352, especially not with a team full of DMs.
In support of my fellow afro-man, I think he mostly does (except when his confidence was at rock-bottom under LvG), I hope we keep him as a squad player, he is a problem for the opposition and he isn't as technically poor as some would have us believe. Just needs to work on the elbows when in midfield.
Huh? You think we lined up 352?
Not sure what's more weird. Getting our formation so wrong or thinking we have a team full of DMs...
The main reason for not taking to him for me is that I just feel he can't be trusted.
I don't mind so much his technical limitations as he has other strengths and is different to what we have elsewhere.
If he can stop looking like a red card on legs then I would be happy for him to stay.
He was impressive last night I can't argue against that.
We all knew Real has a much better team so yesterday's result shouldn't surprise anyone... When you see players like Lingard in our starting XI you realise how far off we are. He will be sold to Watford in couple of seasons because that's his level. We got a big man up top but no one can cross the ball, would be criminal to start a season without signing a wide player and LB. Rashford can't score, Mikhi is invisible as always (except EL last year), Lingard... well typical performance from him, Pogba was bad, only Matic looked quite good IMO, happy we signed him.
Good post.
Perfectly said.
Very smart comment. This is a key to Pogba. He comes across as almost arrogant; but deep down he seems a bit watery still, insecure and unsure. Time for him to shake off those hangups.
Even though Real won comfortably, the game will benefit us over the course of the season. As some mentioned, we won't be playing this calibre of teams week in week out and there is no shame losing to a side, that won back to back Champions League trophies, has that kind of talent in the squad and is playing together for some years without any real transfers. They are the team to beat right now and we had a first taste of what we have to expect at the very top in Europe at the moment.
Thought we did play well at times, good pressing and ball movement for the first 15 minutes and then putting the pressure on after our goal. But what worries me is that our build up from the back is still way to slow and predictable. We get pressed far too easy, as most of our defenders aren't that comfortable on the ball and then we tend to play it long up top. It got better with Fellaini because he was a second target up front, but that can't be the solution to our problems. Hopefully Lindelöf doesn't take too long to adapt and gets some confidence, otherwise I can't really see anybody solving that deficit.
Thought we did play well at times, good pressing and ball movement for the first 15 minutes and then putting the pressure on after our goal. But what worries me is that our build up from the back is still way to slow and predictable. We get pressed far too easy, as most of our defenders aren't that comfortable on the ball and then we tend to play it long up top. It got better with Fellaini because he was a second target up front, but that can't be the solution to our problems. Hopefully Lindelöf doesn't take too long to adapt and gets some confidence, otherwise I can't really see anybody solving that deficit.
Mistaken the line up, which it have should would be:
De Gea
Valencia Lindeloff Smalling Darmian
Mkhtaryan Fellaini Matic Pogba
Lukaku Rashford
Valencia Lindeloff Smalling Darmian
Mkhtaryan Fellaini Matic Pogba
Lukaku Rashford
I had been criticizing our CM for years and I agree with this post. In terms of first team we've got one of the best CMs in the world. If we give them time to settle down then Matic-Herrera-Pogba can go toe to toe even against the very top.
I would still add a cover for Matic though if possible. Yesterday's game clearly showed how much we needed someone like him in the team.
Agree with most of this and think that Bailly was sorely missed. He is a lot sharper and possible could have prevented both their goals which were due to lack of concentration by the central defenders. Matic was at their level at least and is a tiger. Ramos was at his cheating best and I hope I see the day that he gets his deserts. As a whole Real are a team of cheats, diving and feigning all over the place. I look forward to playing them again as I think we can boss them if all players turn up. Unusually, Hererra went missing, I didn't think he was playing for a long time and Pogba was in one of his mindless roles. Lindgard is too light weight against stronger teams. Fellaini turned the game round to our favour and I'm beginning to think his detractors are being petty against him for things that are nothing to do with football because he does that well.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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12%
Marouane Fellaini
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11%
David de Gea
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4%
Chris Smalling
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3%
Antonio Valencia
-
3%
Romelu Lukaku
-
2%
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
-
2%
Marcus Rashford
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1%
Paul Pogba
-
1%
Matteo Darmian
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1%
Victor Lindelof
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 623 ratings.
Score Predictions
402,320,133
- Man Utd win
- Real Madrid win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 30% Real Madrid 1:2 Man Utd
- 17% Real Madrid 2:1 Man Utd
- 9% Real Madrid 1:1 Man Utd
- 8% Real Madrid 3:1 Man Utd
- 6% Real Madrid 2:0 Man Utd
- 5% Real Madrid 2:2 Man Utd
- 4% Real Madrid 0:1 Man Utd
- 4% Real Madrid 2:3 Man Utd
- 4% Real Madrid 1:3 Man Utd
- 3% Real Madrid 0:2 Man Utd
- 2% Real Madrid 1:0 Man Utd
- 2% Real Madrid 3:0 Man Utd
- 2% Real Madrid 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 3:2 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 0:0 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 0:3 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 4:1 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 5:0 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 5:5 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 4:0 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 2:4 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 4:3 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 4:5 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 3:5 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Real Madrid
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 64% 36%
- Shots
- 16 13
- Shots on Target
- 6 6
- Corners
- 8 2
- Fouls
- 10 17
Referee
Gianluca Rocchi
Man Utd Lineup
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-
-
-
-
-
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replaced by Marcus Rashford
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replaced by Marouane Fellaini
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-
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