[Gandalf]

He had more impact in 10 minutes than Hojlund has in a full half, or full match for that matter. He put himself about and got on the end of crosses which is what the latter does not do.

Maguire was brough on to provide an aerial target in desperation time and we lobbed high balls into the box to try and find him, same as we used to do with Fellaini or with Scott. Hojlund did not get on the end of crosses because prior to Harry coming on we had greedy little shites like Garnacho going for goal instead of passing to the better placed player. Of course the idea that Harry is now a better attacker is red meat to those with an agenda but it betrays a profound lack of knowledge about the game.

 

[Red in STL]

Maguire was brough on to provide an aerial target in desperation time and we lobbed high balls into the box to try and find him, same as we used to do with Fellaini or with Scott. Hojlund did not get on the end of crosses because prior to Harry coming on we had greedy little shites like Garnacho going for goal instead of passing to the better placed player. Of course the idea that Harry is now a better attacker is red meat to those with an agenda but it betrays a profound lack of knowledge about the game.

Spot on

 

[lex talionis]

Well Garnacho did attempt to tackle him and from the angle it was made was certainly risking a booking if it his legs had been a few inches longer

In Garnacho's defense, he likely pulled back from a bookable foul in the belief that his defenders had the situation under control. But Garnacho should have gone full throttle on the tackle, come what may.

 

[Red in STL]

In Garnacho's defense, he likely pulled back from a bookable foul in the belief that his defenders had the situation under control. But Garnacho should have gone full throttle on the tackle, come what may.

I'm not sure that's true but if it was then it's a good job he didn't because he was booked later for stupidity!

 

[RedRocket9908]

Maguire was brough on to provide an aerial target in desperation time and we lobbed high balls into the box to try and find him, same as we used to do with Fellaini or with Scott. Hojlund did not get on the end of crosses because prior to Harry coming on we had greedy little shites like Garnacho going for goal instead of passing to the better placed player. Of course the idea that Harry is now a better attacker is red meat to those with an agenda but it betrays a profound lack of knowledge about the game.

Hojlund is awful though and is highly likely to waste the posession by either falling over or by giving it away softly so its no suprise his teammates would sometimes rather shoot themselves than pass to him

 

[Gandalf]

Hojlund is awful though and is highly likely to waste the posession by either falling over or by giving it away softly so its no suprise his teammates would sometimes rather shoot themselves than pass to him

This is so not it. He scored 16 goals in his first season so can clearly put chances away when they present themselves. I am not absolving him of blame or saying he is an elite striker but takes like this just let Garnacho et al off the hook. We are abysmal at chance creation and there is not a striker out there that will thrive in a team that is so selfish and/or timid in possession.

 

[Trex]

He celebrated his goal in a pretty muted fashion for what must have been a special goal for him, in my commentary they said he went 85m in 9 seconds, that's pretty rapid especially with the ball at your feet

I'm talking about the intensity to which he played the entire game. He obviously was out to prove a point.
Just to add I'm happy he's doing well for himself and has become important in a decent team.

 

[Waynne]

Wondering if we're being too harsh on our team here. I didn't catch the live game but followed the updates here and on other channels and it seemed we had a decent game with our inability to put away the numerous chances we had. This is great news because it means our performances is on a steady increase. It is possible to play well and still lose and we did so against a much more settled team that beat all of the top teams in the league this season.

Its the reason why I don't feel the loss as bad as before. 2 or 3 smart recruitments in the next window with the team continuing to steadily adapt to Amorim's tactics and improvements on match day will see us starting to win these games.

 

[justsomebloke]

Zirkzee was one of our best players in the first half. Not only was he linking a lot of our attacks and holding the ball like he often does, he was even (for once) making quite a few good runs in and near the box. It's just that his teammates either refused to pass to him or made a shit pass that was easily cut out by a defender, so he never actually got on the end of those chances. But this time it wasn't his fault. Second half he definitely dropped off a bit, but he was nowhere near as bad as Garnacho.

Dalot was one of our best players in the match. Defended quite well, bought the ball out from the back either by carrying it out himself or passing it forward, put some dangerous balls into the box or drew the defenders then passed it to someone else (normally Bruno or Mazraoui) in that inside position behind him who were now open to put the ball into the box themselves, and hit the bar with his header. He was easily in our top three players.

You saying those two things sounds like you are just seeing what you are expecting to see.

I find it amazing that anyone could watch that game and conclude Dalot was rubbish - he clearly had a good game. Arguably only Bruno did more offensively.

 

[Dans]

Maguire was brough on to provide an aerial target in desperation time and we lobbed high balls into the box to try and find him, same as we used to do with Fellaini or with Scott. Hojlund did not get on the end of crosses because prior to Harry coming on we had greedy little shites like Garnacho going for goal instead of passing to the better placed player. Of course the idea that Harry is now a better attacker is red meat to those with an agenda but it betrays a profound lack of knowledge about the game.

It's up to Rasmus to prove that what we are saying isn't true. Shame he has to do that.

 

[lex talionis]

I'm not sure that's true but if it was then it's a good job he didn't because he was booked later for stupidity!

We definitely can't be sure what went through his mind, but as we all viewed the play on our televisions it's reasonable to believe that Garnacho pulled back in the belief that the two defenders had the situation under control.

But if Garnacho had taken one for the team it's a decent bet he would not have risked a second yellow for stupidity.

 

[Gandalf]

It's up to Rasmus to prove that what we are saying isn't true. Shame he has to do that.

To a large extent he has, when he has been given proper service he has scored goals but that has been pretty rare. Don't take my word for it, Ruben specifically called out the team for not providing service in his post match comments a few weeks ago.

Now that is not to say Rasmus cannot do better. He needs to improve his hold up play and greatly improve his ability in the air just for starters, but in other areas such as running the channels and linking play he has already shown he is up to the task and his finishing has been mostly good. I do not see him as our first choice number 9 for next season and maybe not ever but he can certainly be part of an effective team.

I do stick up for him a lot because many of the players in the team are getting a free pass despite being just as much to blame for our lack of goals. I get that the striker will always be in the spotlight when we are not scoring just as the keeper will get the blame for goals conceded even when it comes from failings throughout the team, I do have an issue with posters who just repeat the same old Hojlund is crap get someone else in and all will be fixed narrative. There is a lot more nuance to why we are struggling to score and short of peak R9 there is not a striker on the planet who can solve our issues on their own.

 

[Red in STL]

We definitely can't be sure what went through his mind, but as we all viewed the play on our televisions it's reasonable to believe that Garnacho pulled back in the belief that the two defenders had the situation under control.

But if Garnacho had taken one for the team it's a decent bet he would not have risked a second yellow for stupidity.

Of course no one can be sure but he was an inch or two from going right thru him so suggesting he pulled back is nonsense IMO

 

[gerdm07]

Hojlund is awful though and is highly likely to waste the posession by either falling over or by giving it away softly so its no suprise his teammates would sometimes rather shoot themselves than pass to him

It's hard to forget Hojlund's really heavy touch near the center circle while trying to hold the ball up. I think the ball bounced about 10 meters off his foot. It was a hard pass, but at this level you have to do better. He is just not good enough and the evidence is obvious.

 

[Craig Ward]

Zirkzee was one of our best players in the first half. Not only was he linking a lot of our attacks and holding the ball like he often does, he was even (for once) making quite a few good runs in and near the box. It's just that his teammates either refused to pass to him or made a shit pass that was easily cut out by a defender, so he never actually got on the end of those chances. But this time it wasn't his fault. Second half he definitely dropped off a bit, but he was nowhere near as bad as Garnacho.

Dalot was one of our best players in the match. Defended quite well, bought the ball out from the back either by carrying it out himself or passing it forward, put some dangerous balls into the box or drew the defenders then passed it to someone else (normally Bruno or Mazraoui) in that inside position behind him who were now open to put the ball into the box themselves, and hit the bar with his header. He was easily in our top three players.

You saying those two things sounds like you are just seeing what you are expecting to see.

I find Dalot to be easily one of our most frustrating players to watch. If thats the standard of performance deemed to be good and in the top three performers, then that's the issue for me. Lack of accountability and standards. He was Dalot, just bog standardly average.

Zirkzee did suffer 2nd half - when he is deeper i feel it suits him more but way too often his passing didnt find a man or he was trying to be to intricate. I did note he made better runs and played more as a "9" in the first half - but agree the service into him was the same as Hojlund - it just never comes or is good enough.

 

[RedRocket9908]

This is so not it. He scored 16 goals in his first season so can clearly put chances away when they present themselves. I am not absolving him of blame or saying he is an elite striker but takes like this just let Garnacho et al off the hook. We are abysmal at chance creation and there is not a striker out there that will thrive in a team that is so selfish and/or timid in possession.

There is no excuse for him managing zero shots in the 45 minutes+ he was on the pitch especially when Maguire managed 3 shots in only 5 minutes, the claims that he is struggling in front of goal because his teammates are not passing him the ball dont hold water when even our cb performed better in the same position and he went more than 12 months without scoring for Denmark while playing with different players.

 

[MadDogg]

I find Dalot to be easily one of our most frustrating players to watch. If thats the standard of performance deemed to be good and in the top three performers, then that's the issue for me. Lack of accountability and standards. He was Dalot, just bog standardly average.

Zirkzee did suffer 2nd half - when he is deeper i feel it suits him more but way too often his passing didnt find a man or he was trying to be to intricate. I did note he made better runs and played more as a "9" in the first half - but agree the service into him was the same as Hojlund - it just never comes or is good enough.

Dalot has been poor for most of this season, but this was a good match. Not just 'good for Dalot', but genuinely good. He got into good positions, put dangerous balls into the box, drew defenders and opened up space for others, took on and beat his man to get us moving down the line, passed it well through the lines, etc. It wasn't a 'brilliant' match or anything, but it was clearly a good one.

From our more defensive wingbacks (ie. not Amad), I'd say it was probably the fourth best wingback performance we've seen this season off the top of my head. The others being Dalot vs Liverpool, Mazraoui vs Arsenal and Dorgu vs Real Sociedad.

 

[Gandalf]

There is no excuse for him managing zero shots in the 45 minutes+ he was on the pitch especially when Maguire managed 3 shots in only 5 minutes, the claims that he is struggling in front of goal because his teammates are not passing him the ball dont hold water when even our cb performed better in the same position and he went more than 12 months without scoring for Denmark while playing with different players.

He actually did manage a shot and also did a good job of holding up the ball and linking play when he was on the pitch helping create a couple of good chances for others which is actually part of his role in the team. He does need to improve but there seems to be a relentless need to just make stuff up when discussing his failings.

Maguire was thrown on as a desperation move and the instruction was given to hit high crosses into the box for him to win, the big man in the box tactic has only been around for about 100 years so maybe that is why people are so confused by it. Go back and watch the game prior to his introduction and show me where our players were hitting those crosses, I will save you the effort now by telling you they were not.

Hojlund has 24 goals in 82 appearances, if you can stomach the idea of Harry playing striker for 82 games I am willing to bet my life he won't have 24 goals at the end of that period or anywhere near that many.

 

[gerdm07]

He actually did manage a shot and also did a good job of holding up the ball and linking play when he was on the pitch helping create a couple of good chances for others which is actually part of his role in the team. He does need to improve but there seems to be a relentless need to just make stuff up when discussing his failings.

Maguire was thrown on as a desperation move and the instruction was given to hit high crosses into the box for him to win, the big man in the box tactic has only been around for about 100 years so maybe that is why people are so confused by it. Go back and watch the game prior to his introduction and show me where our players were hitting those crosses, I will save you the effort now by telling you they were not.

Hojlund has 24 goals in 82 appearances, if you can stomach the idea of Harry playing striker for 82 games I am willing to bet my life he won't have 24 goals at the end of that period or anywhere near that many.

The 24 for 82 looks okay, but let's break it down.

PL: 13 goals in 55 appearances
Domestic Cups: 1 goal in 12 appearances
EL: 10 goals in 16 appearances

To me this shows he can be effective against clubs from non top 4 leagues or mid teams in the top 4 leagues.

 

[Gandalf]

The 24 for 82 looks okay, but let's break it down.

PL: 13 goals in 55 appearances
Domestic Cups: 1 goal in 12 appearances
EL: 10 goals in 16 appearances

To me this shows he can be effective against clubs from non top 4 leagues or mid teams in the top 4 leagues.

I broadly agree though your last stat should state CL and EL and I would not call Bayern a non top 4 league team. I do think he is a project who needs to improve a lot, he should not be our starting striker now or next season if ever. None of that changes the fact that he is a far better striker than Harry Maguire despite what the agenda merchants want to claim.

 

[mitchmouse]

Maguire was brough on to provide an aerial target in desperation time and we lobbed high balls into the box to try and find him, same as we used to do with Fellaini or with Scott. Hojlund did not get on the end of crosses because prior to Harry coming on we had greedy little shites like Garnacho going for goal instead of passing to the better placed player. Of course the idea that Harry is now a better attacker is red meat to those with an agenda but it betrays a profound lack of knowledge about the game.

correct

 

[mitchmouse]

Hojlund is awful though and is highly likely to waste the posession by either falling over or by giving it away softly so its no suprise his teammates would sometimes rather shoot themselves than pass to him

nonsense

 

[mitchmouse]

There is no excuse for him managing zero shots in the 45 minutes+ he was on the pitch especially when Maguire managed 3 shots in only 5 minutes, the claims that he is struggling in front of goal because his teammates are not passing him the ball dont hold water when even our cb performed better in the same position and he went more than 12 months without scoring for Denmark while playing with different players.

name any forward who scores when he's not passed to... other than Messi and Ronaldo in their prime.

 

[justsomebloke]

I find Dalot to be easily one of our most frustrating players to watch. If thats the standard of performance deemed to be good and in the top three performers, then that's the issue for me. Lack of accountability and standards. He was Dalot, just bog standardly average.

Zirkzee did suffer 2nd half - when he is deeper i feel it suits him more but way too often his passing didnt find a man or he was trying to be to intricate. I did note he made better runs and played more as a "9" in the first half - but agree the service into him was the same as Hojlund - it just never comes or is good enough.

Seriously? Did you not notice his several good crosses, creative passes, take-ons, the header in the crossbar? Most nights your description would be accurate, but not this one. He did more offensively than any of our attackers save Bruno, or Dorgu.

 

[lex talionis]

Of course no one can be sure but he was an inch or two from going right thru him so suggesting he pulled back is nonsense IMO

You can't be serious.

 

[Red in STL]

You can't be serious.

Well you can't be sure can you?

 

[RedRocket9908]

name any forward who scores when he's not passed to... other than Messi and Ronaldo in their prime.

He is passed to on the rare occasions he actually gets himself in to a position to recieve a pass and normally either lets it role straight past him, takes a terrible touch to knock it away from himself, or just weakly falls over.

There are so many times where decent balls are played in to or across the box and he isnt there to get to them.

 

[Gandalf]

He is passed to on the rare occasions he actually gets himself in to a position to recieve a pass and normally either lets it role straight past him, takes a terrible touch to knock it away from himself, or just weakly falls over.

There are so many times where decent balls are played in to or across the box and he isnt there to get to them.

There are so many times when he makes the perfect run and is in space inside the box and we instead choose to shoot from impossible angles or turn around and roll the ball backwards and kill the attack.

You see both things are true but critics of Hojlund refuse to accept that there are 10 other players contributing to our poor goalscoring record. Zirkzee has 6 in 45 so does he have a poor touch and fall over? Does he let the ball roll past him? Does he fail to get in the box for all of these decent balls you are seeing? Maybe, just maybe, the Manager was right when he stated that the team is not creating chances for the strikers.

 

[ryansgirl]

I have a huge beef with the pundits/commentators who refer to Ryan Yates as the epitome of what Forest are..resilient, never give up, gives everything BLAH BLAH BLAH, especially McCoist. As an ex pro. should be calling out the cheating behaviour of said Yates, a whinging drama queen, how he evades cards is totally beyond me whining to the ref at every opportunity, and he is not alone in faking and feigning. Good grief McCoist was undecided about the man of the match between Elanga and the cheating b*****d. Don't get me wrong, it is certainly not that we have been beaten...we've had plenty of those, it is the deceitful methods that now infect our game, perfectly demonstrated by Forest, oh not forgetting the quotes by the "experts" that Nuno could/should be manager of the season. Does not the team display the manager's "tactics", in addition when a Forest player "gets away" with a "wee bit of clever play" (cheating) the two knuckle nuts chuckle to themselves....childish playground behaviour. But hey ....onward and upward!!!!

Absolutely. It`s disappointing to see playes like Yates get away with what he does when others would be swiftly carded. Genuinely resilient and spirited players lead by example even if they can get combative including with the referee.
Yates doesn`t fit that profile, he takes the low road literally. I used to watch Forest`s games when Jesse played for them and any Clough-esque tradition is long gone.
As for McCoist - those like him are far too comfortable with and in their positions. What is he there for again? Doesn`t provide a snippet of value in many cases, just another example of how when professional sports is awash with too much money then the mediocre have their day.

 

[MadDogg]

There are so many times when he makes the perfect run and is in space inside the box and we instead choose to shoot from impossible angles or turn around and roll the ball backwards and kill the attack.

You see both things are true but critics of Hojlund refuse to accept that there are 10 other players contributing to our poor goalscoring record. Zirkzee has 6 in 45 so does he have a poor touch and fall over? Does he let the ball roll past him? Does he fail to get in the box for all of these decent balls you are seeing? Maybe, just maybe, the Manager was right when he stated that the team is not creating chances for the strikers.

I'd agree that was the case in his first couple of months here where he was often making good runs only to not receive the ball, and there have been some small signs of that starting to happen again recently. But for the vast majority of his time here Hojlund's movement to get into the right spaces has been very poor. Hence why even Zirzkee, who we all bemoan for doing nothing in the box, had about double the amount of shots per game for most of this season and they were actually from closer to the goal so it's not like he was shooting from distance. He was simply getting into more dangerous positions more often and getting on the end of some passes and crosses. Zirkzee has been playing deeper lately and taking less shots so he's no longer double, but overall he's still comfortably ahead.

Obviously it's not just on Hojlund as even when he does make runs he regularly won't get the ball, but he almost took that decision out of their hands for a long period of his time here by simply not having the right movement.

Like I said though, there have been a few signs over the last month or so that he's starting to make the right runs or take up better positions in the box again, so hopefully that improvement will continue.

 

[mitchmouse]

He is passed to on the rare occasions he actually gets himself in to a position to recieve a pass and normally either lets it role straight past him, takes a terrible touch to knock it away from himself, or just weakly falls over.

There are so many times where decent balls are played in to or across the box and he isnt there to get to them.

Show me some - I'm sorry, but that's exactly what doesn't happen

 

[Andy_Cole]

Hope they get second ahead of Arsenal

 

[RedRocket9908]

Show me some - I'm sorry, but that's exactly what doesn't happen

It happens a lot, balls are played in and he isnt there because he is always 2 steps behind the play

 

[MadDogg]

Show me some - I'm sorry, but that's exactly what doesn't happen

It doesn't happen enough, but it does happen. Hence why everybody else who plays that position ends up getting more chances and shots than Hojlund does.

 

[mitchmouse]

It happens a lot, balls are played in and he isnt there because he is always 2 steps behind the play

maybe that's because he's already made a decent run and not been picked out

 

[RedRocket9908]

maybe that's because he's already made a decent run and not been picked out

He hardly ever makes any kind of decent run

 

[mitchmouse]

He hardly ever makes any kind of decent run

i suggest you watch him live

 

[sdb4884]

Outside of Bruno, Maguire may be our 2nd most effective attacker.

Sadly true.