[Tyrion]

I'm not sure if the Telegraph journo was watching the game.

Baily was one of our best players yesterday. As was Fellaini.
Rooney our highest rated player? Are they serious!!!!

He's our best player by default. He can't play badly so he'll be seen as our best player unless there's an alternative. No one was particularly good yesterday so Rooney gets it on reputation.

 

[Raoul]

Still a long fecking way from being title contenders. Maybe those who thought we needed two or three players instead of Pogba were right.

We are definitely title contenders. One game won't change that.

 

[red_john]

It was a game of 2 halfs. Individual players didn't turn up from the start. The main thing is that we move on from this and win our next game convincingly.

 

[#07]

Still a long fecking way from being title contenders. Maybe those who thought we needed two or three players instead of Pogba were right.

So because we lost a game we could have won, against the only team of genuinely comparable strength to us, we aren't in the race? How does that work then..?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm not sure if the Telegraph journo was watching the game.

Baily was one of our best players yesterday. As was Fellaini.
Rooney our highest rated player? Are they serious!!!!

Bailey was fine but the indecision on the first goal was very poor.

 

[ghagua]

So Mkhitaryan puts in the worst and most cowardly performance of the season so far and you think that he should now start automatically?

Try reading why

 

[SirScholes]

Still a long fecking way from being title contenders. Maybe those who thought we needed two or three players instead of Pogba were right.

How's the knee going for? Jerking all over?
Maybe if lingard wasn't starting and mhiki had of been up to match pace maybe is Jose hadnt got his tactics a little skew.
It wasn't a lack of talent that cost us yesterday evidence of the second half where I thought we fully deserved a second goal

 

[GazTheLegend]

Anyone know the stat on how
Many shots zlatan had in the game ? Feel like if he had his shooting boots on he would have a hat trick to his name as well

 

[ghagua]

Martial is creative/dynamic. Not starting him was a big feck up yesterday. I get your point though as there is a clear disconnect between midfield and attack and Mkhitaryan and Pogba are a big key to this problem. For me that would require Mourinho to incorporate a 4-3-3 system.

GK
DEFENSE
SCHNEIDERLIN HERRERA
POGBA
MKHITARYAN MARTIAL
RASHFORD

Mkhitaryan, Rashford and Martial can all interchange in a fluid way. This might sound a bit left wing but I think Zlatan's lack of movement makes us predictable.
We have Martial and Rashford who have pace and play all across the front line, Pogba and Herrera are more than capable of finding them with their passing ability. Zlatan is a target man, a very skilfull one but essentially that is his role. Where are our players who run behind a defense? We have them but are not utilising them, that's annoying. Martial is a key player for us especially because he can come deep link the play and then have the pace to run behind, he should always start imo.
Also and most importantly, Herrera and Schneiderlin gives Pogba the freedom to be more effective in the final 3rd. He can still drop back and win balls but he also has the freedom to charge forward. The pace of Martial and Rashford with Mkhitaryan and Pogba interlinking would be a big threat to any team.

I do like that lineup, but I would still keep Ibra in there,. Play Martial and Rashford on the wing, Mkhitaryan as a #10 and Ibra up top. I would have Schneiderlin in midfield with Pogba.

 

[Borys]

I'm a little worried about our inept pressing, it seems either we don't know how to do it or it's Mourinho instructions, and both options sound equally bad.

 

[VorZakone]

I thought Leroy Sane had a very underwhelming cameo which was fortunate for United because he did far too little in those threatening counterattacks.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I thought Leroy Sane had a very underwhelming cameo which was fortunate for United because he did far too little in those threatening counterattacks.

Agree. City really should have scored another given the amount of space they had on those counters. But Shaw did very well to snuff out anything Sane did. As did Blind later on. I feared the worst every time he picked up the ball in acres of space.

 

[Siorac]

Van Gaal can count himself incredibly lucky to come up against our direct rivals at a unique time in history when ALL of them were sacking managers at once (Arsenal the one exception, although many would say they should have also got out a P45).

Mourinho's up against them when they're all having a resurgence. It will be a long long time before we get such a run of easy fixtured against the wealthiest PL clubs. It may never happen again.

Fair enough. I was mostly taking issue with Sarni's remark that he's more confident against our rivals than during any time in the last few seasons which is a bit odd, not least because of the reasons you listed.

 

[Sam M]

Still a long fecking way from being title contenders. Maybe those who thought we needed two or three players instead of Pogba were right.

No, Manchester United are certainly title challengers. And reviewing our summer business 4 games into the season isn't something you want to be advertising to other people.

 

[Xeno]

First chance to watch the game as I've been away with work. From the match thread and media in general I had expected to see a first half of City à la 2010 Barcelona. Admittedly, they were better than us; quicker reactions and faster to the ball. Their pressing is impressive, when we seemed to do the same we'd end up fouling them but City, even though they come in from behind, seem to nick the ball.

I thought they were decent, but hardly this "sea change" of EPL football I'd imagined after reading the comments here and in the papers. The only outstanding player was De Bruyne, he is absolutely world class. You could say it was as much to do with us standing off them than their incredible interplay. Liverpool will have a lot of joy against them I think.

Second half we were much better, but again, nowhere near as good as I'd imagined seeing after comments. We looked excellent until the Rashford disallowed goal, then we just looked like United under Moyes; Rooney pumping it long into the box. Second half Rooney was pretty decent, good to see him trying to grab a game by the scruff of its neck even if he lacks the ability to do so as much.

Agree with everyone, Mkhi and Lingard were really poor. Pogba had a quiet game but it was by no way terrible, some nice plays out of danger and he'd be brought down. Ibra made enough chances to have a hat trick, on another day we might have nicked a win.

Don't think Clattenberg was too bad. Bravo wasn't a sending off, nor was Otamendi a hand ball. The only one that strikes me as a bad call was Fellaini's elbow.

Not too disappointed other than losing ground to a rival. We can and will improve. Onwards to Feyenoord.

 

[Litch]

Christ one loss and already baby's being thrown out with bath water. City and Utd are starting from different places, as is Jose. Compare the difference in established prem experience?

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

De Gea > Bravo
Bailly and Blind >= Stones and Ottamendi
Shaw > Kolarov
Valencia > Sagna
Pogba > Silva
Fellaini - Fernando (don't know)
Mikhi (should be) > Sterling
Lingard < De Bruyne (yes agreed better that everyone today)
Zlatan > Nolito
Rooney > Ibeanacho

Bailly and Blind better than stones and Otamendi, pogba better than silva, Mikhi better than sterling... What planet do you live on. Didn't you learn anything from the game yesterday?

 

[berbatrick]

City’s most dangerous players in Pep Guardiola’s 4-3-3 system are the two advanced central midfielders, David Silva and Kevin De Bruyne. Although both are more accustomed to higher positions, they have adjusted excellently to their new roles, driving forward and combining swiftly between the lines. Without the threat of Sergio Agüero, usually City’s obvious dangerman, Mourinho’s primary task was protecting the zone where Silva and De Bruyne operate.

Instead, Mourinho made no obvious plans. He continued with a midfield duo of Marouane Fellaini and Paul Pogba, a combination that was repeatedly exposed throughout the first half. Pogba, in particular, gave an incredibly indisciplined midfield display, positioning himself as if he were playing in a midfield trio, the system he is accustomed to. He was often caught ahead of the ball at turnovers, which left Fellaini isolated in front of the defence. The Belgian has generally been impressive this season but was inevitably incapable of shutting down both Silva and De Bruyne.

United’s problem was exacerbated by their full-backs, Antonio Valencia and Luke Shaw, being dragged out towards the touchlines as City stretched the play determinedly through the left-sided Nolito and right-sided Raheem Sterling. Therefore, huge gaps opened up in the channels, most obviously in City’s inside-left position. De Bruyne put himself between Eric Bailly, Valencia and Fellaini. No one knew who was supposed to be stopping him.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...chester-city-manchester-united-premoer-league

 

[what a mess]

In my view we have two potential line ups to get the best out of the squad either ..

433
Darmian Smalling Bailley shaw
Herrera pogba Fellaini
Rashford Zlatan martial

Or 4231

Darmian Smalling Bailley Shaw
Herrera Fellaini
Rashford pogba martial
Zlatan

We must stop playing a one footed winger as a right back
We must stop playing a utility player ( blind ) as centre back
We must stop trying to shoe horn Rooney into the team
We must add pace to stretch teams and put them on the back foot

This week is going to be fascinating I'm presuming the likes of jones , young , Schneiderlin , Carrick , Depay will get a run out on Thursday and I'm hoping to see Rooney leading the line for the B team While Zlatan gets rested for the must win on Sunday

 

[DMacgraw]

Mourinho made a ton of mistakes in this game: wrong formation, wrong players, all true. He made the same mistakes in the previous games, but this time we were playing a team capable of exploiting those mistakes. Hopes he learns from it. That said, despite all City's slick passing and first half dominance, our loss yesterday was mostly due, in my opinion, to two instances of individual player mistakes, specifically, Daley Blind ball-watching for both goals. Perhaps Mourinho's most obvious mistake was playing Blind against a team like City when a far better defender, Chris Smalling, was available.

 

[Rajma]

Think we could have done with someone like Carrick in the second half instead of Fellaini. The man knows how to control the game in particular it is evident when we play in Old trafford and more than anything we needed that especially in the second part of the second half where we reverted to playing long balls rather than putting a more cohesive and systematic effort to put pressure on city. His calming influence in 3 man midfield would have been invaluable and the passing ability he has would have caused more questions to answer for city as we made it really easy for them at the same time preventing ourselves from gaining any momentum.

 

[RedMilo]

Jose got it spectacularly wrong on the first half. We never got started and we were lucky to go in at half time 1-2 behind. Got to play 4-5-1 in future against top teams, pack the midfield, and play counter attacking football with pace.

 

[MrBest]

You seriously think that? I agree with @namco. Despite their dominance in the opening 30 mins it didn't make them look like invincible title favorites. We did terribly in defense, we lacked cohesion and, it seems, a game plan. We made them look better than we needed to. Granted they were without their world class player but stil no team is going to walk the league.

I'm not making my judgement on the 90 minutes from Saturday. Pep is an incredible manager and with a club with money strives. He has already got Sterling playing bettwr and of course he will do better, de Bryne looks sharper than last season even though he was immense last year. I'm not saying Mourinho is a bad manager but Mourinho literally has a mess to clear up at United, pep had a great squad already which jist needed some tlc.

The mentality at United will take about a year to fix again after gaal destroyed and I can see us winning the 2018 title. 2017 will go to City and I think they will clear it by 10 points. Feel free to slate me in May if that don't happen .. I would of course happily take the abuse

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'm a little worried about our inept pressing, it seems either we don't know how to do it or it's Mourinho instructions, and both options sound equally bad.

It's hard to press with Rooney-Ibra in the team at the same time. Albeit, we did it well in the 2nd during certain periods.

Also with Fellaini in midfield, you place too much responsibility on him to cover ground if our pressing is bypassed.

Our starting 11 still lacks balance.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Bailly and Blind better than stones and Otamendi, pogba better than silva, Mikhi better than sterling... What planet do you live on. Didn't you learn anything from the game yesterday?

Hardly controversial what he said.

1 change doesn't prove anything.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Still hard to digest, losing the derby at home like that, with no chance to 'get back' at them anytime soon. We knew what was coming, but didn't plan for it (or execute the plan well, if you according to the manager). The better team won, and that's frustrating.

I hope the next games show marked improvement from the errors in this game - Pogba being more disciplined, or someone to cover for him if he is allowed to roam; the wingers doing a better job of tracking back and cutting in, us keeping hold of possession much better under pressure, defenders not making individual mistakes, Rooney being dropped for someone who contributes more ...

I just want to see a hungry raring-to-get back performance over the next few games. I want players to show they're hurt, the manager to show they're hurt, and for us to keep pressure on City/Chelsea.

 

[goin4glory]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...chester-city-manchester-united-premoer-league

I agree with all of this but also think you could attribute some degree of how poor the first half performance was to the players (and in particular the forward line) being unfamiliar with each other and not match fit. Don't think Mourinho was wrong for starting Miki in fact I'd wager if you looked at the pre match thread most of the caf would have been calling for it. Starting Lingard over Martial was a mistake though.

Was at the game and the few lads I was with all speculated it would take a sound defeat for Mourinho to make the necessary changes and that may have already happened. Pogba looks like a defensive liability playing 4-2-3-1 and the system restricts his other strengths. Would like to see us playing a 4-3-3 even if it means playing with one less attacking player. It's certainly possible that Pogba could learn to play in a 4-2-3-1 but he had similar issues for France so it's not a one off.

I'll be interested to see the Monday night football analysis.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Lesson is bring the game to whoever steps into OT from now on. We are capable. JoMo will learn..

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Bailly and Blind better than stones and Otamendi, pogba better than silva, Mikhi better than sterling... What planet do you live on. Didn't you learn anything from the game yesterday?

He's having a laugh, surely.

 

[podurban2]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...chester-city-manchester-united-premoer-league

When reading that you do have to wonder.. What was Mou thinking.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

From a neutral perspective this might have been a great and intense game of Football to show why the PL is the most interesting league to follow by quite a margin.
Unfortunately for us City has been the better Team over 90 minutes and we can`t complain about the result.
I do not start to worry as we made 9 out of 12 so far and there is still a lot of room for improvement. The Talent is there and Jose is the right man to bring out the best of everyone.

Kudos to Pep. He adopted really well to the PL. City has been looking very sharp - good combination of Possession Football and more direct stuff. Can see them having a strong season and also having a go at the CL (maybe not this season but soon).

De Bruyne is such a great Footballer. Good to see Players like him and Pogba, Hazard etc. in the PL.

And even though Miki has not been very good yesterday I hope Jose keeps starting him. He is a fantastic Footballer and might Need more time to settle than some others.

 

[Ban]

Well I had a friend's wedding on Saturday, tracked the game on livescore and this pages of course while dressing up for the thing. So I hoped I'll go to the wedding happy we won but as the game was over I went to the wedding a bit depressed and the whole wedding it bugged me. Not a lot but enough.

As I gather they were a lot better in the 1st half but the good thing is Mourinho changed things at HT. Some managers wouldn't make a change but would keep everything the same hoping it will turn out to be good or would just change tactically a bit but not enough.
Mourinho changed the formation, subbed Mickhi and Lingard who were bad, it didn't turn out to be successful in the sense of us at least getting a draw but at least we fought.
Of course Jose made a mistake of starting Lingard and Mickhi but at least he strikes me as a manager who will learn from this mistake.

Question is will we change formation for good or will use that 4-3-3 in some games or in the middle of games when things aren't going the way we want it to.

No need for panic stations just yet. We have a good team, just need to wait for everything to click.

Kudos to City and Pep though. I hoped Pep will have trouble adapting but no trouble till now. Of course season is long and everything can still happen. No purpose of conceding the title to them already and crying we won't win the title or be in top 4 even (not that I've seen anything claim that).

 

[Lawman]

I'm not sure if the Telegraph journo was watching the game.

Baily was one of our best players yesterday. As was Fellaini.
Rooney our highest rated player? Are they serious!!!!

Thought Baily was poor to be honest but he was much better than Blind whos lack of defensive nous got highlighted again.

 

[Zoo]

He's having a laugh, surely.

It's just one game.

 

[Lawman]

[QUOTE="Ban, post: 19788879,
As I gather they were a lot better in the 1st half but the good thing is Mourinho changed things at HT. Some managers wouldn't make a change but would keep everything the same hoping it will turn out to be good or would just change tactically a bit but not enough.


Problem was it was the wrong team selection and formation and Jose should have made changes earlier than half time. We got a hiding first half and we imo have the better players. Poor day from Jose alround.

 

[sugar_kane]

One small positive to take from the game is you can guarantee Van Gaal would have kept Mikki and Lingard on at half time.

Then probably subbed Valencia for Smalling at 75 minutes.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

One small positive to take from the game is you can guarantee Van Gaal would have kept Mikki and Lingard on at half time.

Then probably subbed Valencia for Smalling at 75 minutes.

LvG subbed players having a mare already in the first half. Don't think you can bash him for that.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Some interesting stuff here, probably worth 2 minutes of your time:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...lind-antonio-valencia-after-manchester-derby?

 

[Alex Styles]

Bailly and Blind better than stones and Otamendi, pogba better than silva, Mikhi better than sterling... What planet do you live on. Didn't you learn anything from the game yesterday?

It was a reply to another post. If we were judging based on the derby then you're absolutely right. Mikhi was a no show and pogba was well below par. On paper though we have the better team. That's what I meant.

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

It was a reply to another post. If we were judging based on the derby then you're absolutely right. Mikhi was a no show and pogba was well below par. On paper though we have the better team. That's what I meant.

I don't think you do though. On paper those players you mention aren't better than the city comparable players. Squad-wise I think we are pretty level, starting 11 we definitely edge it.