[AndyMUFC86]

Pretty convinced Hojlands goal should have stood yesterday. That wasn’t out. Irrelevant of the poor performance we really are having no luck at the moment

 

[AndyMUFC86]

Ten Hag is an absolutely horrendous manager, just utter, utter garbage

Although I totally disagree with you I can understand why some fans are looking at the manager in this moment. It’s very easy to see a poor performance and blame the manager. But I beg you and others in this position to try and place yourself in his shoes and understand the challenges he is facing. It would be exactly the same for anyone new should we change him. I’m not saying ETH is perfect, I think he’s made mistakes also. Look at the big picture and all the off field problems he has inherited. And I’m not just talking about the obvious ones in the headlines right now. Name another club who when the transfer window has just ended, the manager is left with 4/5 players that he doesn’t want or doesn’t rate. As a manager taking control of United you inherit a decade of poor management decisions that plague you.

 

[justsomebloke]

That was a clarifying game. So far this season, we're simply a mid-table side. The kind of team that has to work hard to beat lower-half sides, and lose when playing good teams. Like Fulham last season. Every indicator says that - table position, goals scored, goals allowed, xG, xGA, everything. We're tied for 10th in goals scored, tied for 14th in goals allowed, 8th in xG, 12th in xGA.

Brighton struggled for 15 minutes, solved it by making one small tactical tweak that we didn't have an answer to and then scored three goals without really having to generate much offensive pressure. Three similar, simple cutbacks with our defence failing to close down the central space every time. Otherwise, they mostly just kept the ball moving leisurely between them, effectively killing any chance for United momentum. They made it look easy, and a foregone conclusion. Like they were playing Sheffield United and aiming to conserve energy.

 

[justsomebloke]

Pretty convinced Hojlands goal should have stood yesterday. That wasn’t out. Irrelevant of the poor performance we really are having no luck at the moment

Man, what are you talking about. You could actually see green between the ball and the line. That ball 100% was out.

 

[justsomebloke]

It is quite difficult to watch us play. Was in a bad mood all of yesterday. Early in the first half Rashford had a change to slide a pass in for Rasmus for a tap in and instead went left and hit the side netting. His decision making in these situations is still shite and I'm afraid will never get better. And please don't give me the, 'well he's a striker and he's got go for goal' argument. Was so pissed when that happened. We score early, we are set.

Didn't have a passing lane, as far as I could tell.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Man, what are you talking about. You could actually see green between the ball and the line. That ball 100% was out.

Until there is footage directly above the ball - nobody can say the ball was "100% out" - you can say probably out, or most likely out, but without the correct angle it's impossible to call it 100%.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Man, what are you talking about. You could actually see green between the ball and the line. That ball 100% was out.

That doesn't mean it was out. I dont know if it was or not, but seeing green isn't the barometer (see that famous Japan incident).

 

[justsomebloke]

This game showed me: 1) Lindelof wasn’t up to the task. Just not good enough there. Really wish we would have signed Kim Min Jae this summer (or any of the other CB options). 2) McTominay should not play again for Man United. 3) Martial should not play again for Man United. 4) Not the best game for Licha. 5) Not sure why Dalot started over Wan Bissaka at RB today. Bad decision. 6) Love Hojlund. Is going to be a great player for United. 7) If Reguilon can bring that production from fame to game, he’s a keeper. Player of the match for me. Consistently provided width and quality service from the left…also allowed Rashford to play more through the middle. 8) Midfield was solid, not spectacular. 9) We weren’t even close to clinical. Rashford created some opportunities, but has to do better.

Reguilon player of the match? Really? He had some good involvements up front, mostly in those first 15 minutes when we were pressing the living daylights out of them, but after that? Dalot had a much better game than he did.

Also, don't think it's the CB's who should be primarily blamed for Brighton's goals. OK, Martinez gets suckered on the second one, but the other two's on the midfielders who fail to close to down runners into the box. Eriksen on the first, Bruno and McTominay on the third.

And Hojlund, well someone's got to say it: Yes, it's great to see him running into the right spaces and giving everything and all that. But I think we should acknowledge to ourselves that what we're doing here is giving voice to hope and projection rather than lauding great performances. Because he actually accomplished very little. Still early and every reason for hope, just saying.

 

[justsomebloke]

Until there is footage directly above the ball - nobody can say the ball was "100% out" - you can say probably out, or most likely out, but without the correct angle it's impossible to call it 100%.

As far as I can understand, it's not physically possible to see green between the whole ball and the line if the ball is not out, regardless of angle?

 

[justsomebloke]

That doesn't mean it was out. I dont know if it was or not, but seeing green isn't the barometer (see that famous Japan incident).

Okay, maybe I'm wrong about the green thing.

Don't think there's much reason to complain about the call though.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

As far as I can understand, it's not physically possible to see green between the whole ball and the line if the ball is not out, regardless of angle?

Not necceserily, because its the widest part of the ball we're talking about, it can still be above the line.

Look at the goalposts in the picture below - they move into the line despite being behind it - the perspective of the whole thing is wrong and so it's impossible to make a clear decision from.



Not that it had any barring on the outcome mind you, we would have lost regardless

 

[justsomebloke]

Not necceserily, because its the widest part of the ball we're talking about, it can still be above the line.

Look at the goalposts in the picture below - they move into the line despite being behind it - the perspective of the whole thing is wrong and so it's impossible to make a clear decision from.



Not that it had any barring on the outcome mind you, we would have lost regardless

Goalposts point: Firstly, those are more than two metres above the ground which means they are hugely more impacted by perspective than a ball 25 cm above the ground. Secondly, if the perspective makes the goalposts appear to be further forward than they actually are, then the same is true of the ball, no?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Goalposts point: Firstly, those are more than two metres above the ground which means they are hugely more impacted by perspective than a ball 25 cm above the ground. Secondly, if the perspective makes the goalposts appear to be further forward than they actually are, then the same is true of the ball, no?

In theory - but the point is it's not a true "angle" - it's impossible to tell exactly what's going on without being above the ball / across the line.

The image being such crap quality doesn't help either (pixelates the ball/grass/line etc) - you'd hope that VAR have higher def images then that but i'm not entirely sure they do?

 

[justsomebloke]

In theory - but the point is it's not a true "angle" - it's impossible to tell exactly what's going on without being above the ball / across the line.

The image being such crap quality doesn't help either (pixelates the ball/grass/line etc) - you'd hope that VAR have higher def images then that but i'm not entirely sure they do?

Surely that's more than "in theory" - the same angle can't show the goalposts too far forward, and the ball too far back?

 

[Berbasbullet]

Not necceserily, because its the widest part of the ball we're talking about, it can still be above the line.

Look at the goalposts in the picture below - they move into the line despite being behind it - the perspective of the whole thing is wrong and so it's impossible to make a clear decision from.



Not that it had any barring on the outcome mind you, we would have lost regardless

Im not sure thats the furthest out the ball goes, but if so that looks in play to me.

Is what it is though, can't give the ref/VAR decisions like that to make.

 

[justsomebloke]

1st half basic stats
Shots on goal United 8 Brighton 3
Shots on target United 3 Brighton 1
Passes United 242 Brighton 338

2nd half
Shots on goal United 6 Brighton 7
Shots on target United 3 Brighton 7
Passes United 245 Brighton 321

The stats just become Welbeck opening the scoring
Shots on goal United 4 Brighton 1
Shots on target United 1 Brighton 0
Passes United 79 Brighton 77

Just put those numbers into the right context. For nearly the whole period up to Welbeck's goal, United effectively disrupted Brighton with our forward press. Then around the quarter mark, De Zerbi countered that by moving his two CBs out wider when building up, meaning we were one man short to effectively press them and close down passing lanes. From there on, we were no longer disrupting them. This led to them being able to comfortably control possession, and generate the sort of attacks that led to all three of their goals. This worked because a) we had no countermove and as a result lost the ability to press them, b) without that high disruption, we weren't very effective in stopping them moving through the midfield, or forcing bad plays, or otherwise winning the ball back so they could just cycle the ball until opportunities presented themselves and c) when they found openings and threatened our box with concerted movement, we couldn't handle it. On the other end, they were rarely out of balance when they lost the ball, and also we were markedly lacking in passing precision and concerted movement. Out-thought, out-organised and out-performed.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Surely that's more than "in theory" - the same angle can't show the goalposts too far forward, and the ball too far back?

I wouldn't say so - the fact that the post moves further away from the line the further up the picture you go shows the perspective is also playing its part. Again I think, you can say it's "probably" out, but I don't think its possible to be 100% certain - but then i'm not even conviced thats a line of grass between ball/line and just the pixels at play - this is what you get if you zoom right in.

 

[justsomebloke]

I wouldn't say so - the fact that the post moves further away from the line the further up the picture you go shows the perspective is also playing its part. Again I think, you can say it's "probably" out, but I don't think its possible to be 100% certain - but then i'm not even conviced thats a line of grass between ball/line and just the pixels at play - this is what you get if you zoom right in.

Er yes, but the way in which it's "playing a part" cannot be by showing some things too far forward and other things too far back relative to the same line, surely?

 

[crossy1686]

Lads, without VAR's forensic analysis of every goal we'd all be saying it was definitely out. Just let it go, the officials get enough shit wrong, it's weird to focus on this one like it had some bearing on the outcome.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Lads, without VAR's forensic analysis of every goal we'd all be saying it was definitely out. Just let it go, the officials get enough shit wrong, it's weird to focus on this one like it had some bearing on the outcome.

I think without the Japan incident we'd be saying it's definitely out. Now I think we're all a bit wiser to the fact that you can't be too sure all of the ball is over the line.

Didn't affect the outcome at all - we'd have lost regardless, but its something to debate on a Monday morning instead of doing actual work still.

 

[TheNewEra]

9 points behind Citeh….9 BIG BA STARD POINTS

City have injuries too, long way to go for United

 

[Hughie77]

Felt exactly the same about Onana

2nd and 3rd goal DDG saves them. Definitely the 3rd one.. 2nd he imo would have at least got hands on it.. its poor defending firstly not picking up runners from CM.. all goals were the same.. unless they improve in Defence Onana is not a shot stopper, and with the poor defending a shot stopper is needed. Let's see if we improve over the season..

 

[mitchmouse]

2nd and 3rd goal DDG saves them. Definitely the 3rd one.. 2nd he imo would have at least got hands on it.. its poor defending firstly not picking up runners from CM.. all goals were the same.. unless they improve in Defence Onana is not a shot stopper, and with the poor defending a shot stopper is needed. Let's see if we improve over the season..

Not sure DDG would have , but a better keeper (Martinez) would. I see Peter Schmeichel blamed Lisando Marinez - and he's not wrong

 

[mitchmouse]

Gary is not wrong - although I guess his haters won't agree...

https://www.skysports.com/football/...rik-ten-hag-but-im-not-sure-how-good-they-are

 

[mitchmouse]

Peter Schmeichel would be tearing strips off all his defenders if hw was still playing!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lisandro-martinez-man-united-brighton-30960202

 

[mitchmouse]

Although I totally disagree with you I can understand why some fans are looking at the manager in this moment. It’s very easy to see a poor performance and blame the manager. But I beg you and others in this position to try and place yourself in his shoes and understand the challenges he is facing. It would be exactly the same for anyone new should we change him. I’m not saying ETH is perfect, I think he’s made mistakes also. Look at the big picture and all the off field problems he has inherited. And I’m not just talking about the obvious ones in the headlines right now. Name another club who when the transfer window has just ended, the manager is left with 4/5 players that he doesn’t want or doesn’t rate. As a manager taking control of United you inherit a decade of poor management decisions that plague you.

I have to admit I was wondering about the manager back in 1988-89 without knowing the absolute sh!t-show the club was. Can't recall his name

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Gary is not wrong - although I guess his haters won't agree...

https://www.skysports.com/football/...rik-ten-hag-but-im-not-sure-how-good-they-are

Talking about summer signings and their lack of impact is silly considering...

Mount is injured.
Hojlund has started 1 game.
Amrabat out injured.

 

[Hughie77]

Not sure DDG would have , but a better keeper (Martinez) would. I see Peter Schmeichel blamed Lisando Marinez - and he's not wrong

Yep . Could well be like I said it's poor defending first then the keeper. The more shots against us this season and sadly there going in. Bartez was similar with him in goal , but we were a bit better in CM and CB position..

 

[crossy1686]

I think without the Japan incident we'd be saying it's definitely out. Now I think we're all a bit wiser to the fact that you can't be too sure all of the ball is over the line.

Didn't affect the outcome at all - we'd have lost regardless, but its something to debate on a Monday morning instead of doing actual work still.

I hear you mate, it’s better than staring down the barrel all week I guess.

 

[Crimson King]

Not necceserily, because its the widest part of the ball we're talking about, it can still be above the line.

Look at the goalposts in the picture below - they move into the line despite being behind it - the perspective of the whole thing is wrong and so it's impossible to make a clear decision from.



Not that it had any barring on the outcome mind you, we would have lost regardless

Dunk all over Højlund there in the box. He gets away with that a lot, worse than Maguire used to be for grabbing shirts and shit in the box.

 

[Matt Varnish]

That is what a DOF, a good one does for you, also an owner who doesn't have stars in his eyes. They have a good scouting system and DOF's who listen to them. We have scouts that aren't listened to. No DOF so the manager has to try and do it all.

The price and wages also increase exponentially when United come calling

 

[Rightnr]

It’s been stated over and over.
It’s the wages these players are on, which makes it difficult to shift them.
Nobody is buying and the players won’t accept a worst deal.
We’ll be stuck with some of them until their contracts end and they can be released….for nothing !

.

It comes down to the ownership once again.

Arsenal have had quite a few duds as well but they've been happy to pay them off and 'clean' the dressing room of them. Aubameyang and Pepe spring to mind.

The Glazers are unwilling to write off these losses or even unable to because of the state the club's in. Add to that incompetent management with the funds available and you have the current disaster.

 

[Gordon Godot]

It comes down to the ownership once again.

Arsenal have had quite a few duds as well but they've been happy to pay them off and 'clean' the dressing room of them. Aubameyang and Pepe spring to mind.

The Glazers are unwilling to write off these losses or even unable to because of the state the club's in. Add to that incompetent management with the funds available and you have the current disaster.

But we keep repeating the same mistakes. We also sign players too old like Varanne and Casimero, then massively overpay for Antony.

 

[Infra-red]

Brighton's XI cost £17m and they were comfortably the better team away at Old Trafford. Many years ago, results like this would have been a massive shock, but now they don't even rise to the level of "unexpected". Brighton are one of the best (if not the best) run clubs around at the moment. United are one of the worst (if not the worst) run clubs anywhere. That's four wins on the bounce for Brighton against United - it is a fixture they understandably now look forward to.

 

[RuudTom83]

Spurs, Arsenal and Brighton have started the season well, in contrast United have started badly and are carrying a tonne of injuries....so you could say it was a good time for them to play United.

Over-analysing the game just makes you more depressed.

The good think is they have another game in 48 hours, and 2 games a week for a while now, so the manager can swap a few players around without it becoming a massive media circus.

 

[Ubik]

I wouldn't say so - the fact that the post moves further away from the line the further up the picture you go shows the perspective is also playing its part. Again I think, you can say it's "probably" out, but I don't think its possible to be 100% certain - but then i'm not even conviced thats a line of grass between ball/line and just the pixels at play - this is what you get if you zoom right in.

Having to judge that at all when the edge of the line itself seems to be a collection of blurry pixels is quite hilarious to me.

 

[Hughes35]

Just seen a stat saying that the Brighton first 11 on Saturday cost them 16.2 Million quid.

Absolutely insane.

Steele - Free
Veltman - 900K
Van Hecke - 1.7M
Dunk - Free
Lamptey - 1.5m
Gross - 2.5M
Dahoud - Free
Adingra - 6.9M
Lallana - Free
Mitoma - 2.6M
Welbeck - Free

Shows what can be achieved with good coaching, management and recruitment.

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

Let's have some perspective. Varane, Shaw, Mount, Amrabat, Antony out, Hojlund not 100%. That's 5,6 players out of the ideal first 11. There's no team in the world that can cope with that amount of injuries.

The team will be better when players return.

And let's be real, even in an ideal situation we would not compete for the Premier League title this season. Top 5 challenge and a deep run in cups/CL. That's reality.

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

Also, Ten Hag messed up against Brighton.

4-4-2 with diamond cannot work with Eriksen and McTominay in wide areas. That's suicide. Bin that formation today.

 

[Hughes35]

Let's have some perspective. Varane, Shaw, Mount, Amrabat, Antony out, Hojlund not 100%. That's 5,6 players out of the ideal first 11. There's no team in the world that can cope with that amount of injuries.

The team will be better when players return.

And let's be real, even in an ideal situation we would not compete for the Premier League title this season. Top 5 challenge and a deep run in cups/CL. That's reality.

Brighton were without March, Estupinan & Buonanotte. They also had Ferguson, Fati, Webster & Pedro that weren't ready for a full 90.

We can't use injuries as an excuse for this one.