[sparx99]

These are half a dozen spectacularly gifted players, playing for the top two clubs and are not IMO indicative of the range of male professional footballers in PL

Exceptions that prove the rule...perhaps!

Yes, but the point is the top teams' best players carry their teams and all the top teams have players in their peak.

Bayern have Lewandowski, Neuer & Muller supplemented by Kimmich etc who are coming into their peak years.

Real Madrid still have Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Courtois and Alaba providing a strong core still near the top of their game.

Chelsea have Kante, Jorginho, Thiago Silva supplemented by emerging talents.

Our core players of Maguire, Bruno, Pogba, De Gea are supposed to be supported by Rashford, Shaw etc coming into their peak years but the performance levels of both groups isn't sufficient to compete with those top teams.

Young players are great as a fresh impetus to a solid group but you only have to look at Arsenal to see the inconsistency that comes with having too many young lads.

I'm no great fan of Mourinho but he did win two trophies and his selection of a core of experienced players played a role in that.

Throughout the league experienced players still play a key role; Vardy, Moutinho, Michail Antonio, etc.

 

[Maticmaker]

Yes, but the point is the top teams' best players carry their teams and all the top teams have players in their peak.

Bayern have Lewandowski, Neuer & Muller supplemented by Kimmich etc who are coming into their peak years.

Real Madrid still have Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Courtois and Alaba providing a strong core still near the top of their game.

Chelsea have Kante, Jorginho, Thiago Silva supplemented by emerging talents.

Our core players of Maguire, Bruno, Pogba, De Gea are supposed to be supported by Rashford, Shaw etc coming into their peak years but the performance levels of both groups isn't sufficient to compete with those top teams.

Young players are great as a fresh impetus to a solid group but you only have to look at Arsenal to see the inconsistency that comes with having too many young lads.

I'm no great fan of Mourinho but he did win two trophies and his selection of a core of experienced players played a role in that.

Throughout the league experienced players still play a key role; Vardy, Moutinho, Michail Antonio, etc.

Sorry, but I think you are making the point for me, in every example you have given the number of experienced players is three to five players, less than half of a team, and once again these are all recognised as exceptional (older) players.

Its becoming overall and in some cases already is, a 'young mans' game, we have too many older ones and not enough spectacular young ones.... Greenwood is perhaps the nearest and his development has 'wobbled' somewhat lately.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Yes, but the point is the top teams' best players carry their teams and all the top teams have players in their peak.

Bayern have Lewandowski, Neuer & Muller supplemented by Kimmich etc who are coming into their peak years.

Real Madrid still have Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Courtois and Alaba providing a strong core still near the top of their game.

Chelsea have Kante, Jorginho, Thiago Silva supplemented by emerging talents.

Our core players of Maguire, Bruno, Pogba, De Gea are supposed to be supported by Rashford, Shaw etc coming into their peak years but the performance levels of both groups isn't sufficient to compete with those top teams.

Young players are great as a fresh impetus to a solid group but you only have to look at Arsenal to see the inconsistency that comes with having too many young lads.

I'm no great fan of Mourinho but he did win two trophies and his selection of a core of experienced players played a role in that.

Throughout the league experienced players still play a key role; Vardy, Moutinho, Michail Antonio, etc.

I generally liked how we played on Sunday in first half, clear difference in approach and pressing, we regurarly won the ball high up which is new. Villa are a better team than their league position suggests and Gerrard has them playing nice football. There are a couple of obvious poinst. The only genuine DM in the squad is 33, and our two experienced CFs have a combined age of 70. We rode the storm in opening 20 of second half, which is fine and most home teams will have periods of pressure. I think after that Ralf's in game management was poor, I would suggest Cavani as a miniumu and then maybe Bruno should have gone off after 2nd goal for VDB and Lingard, or even Rashford. Fresh legs to press and make Villa nervous about the break. But he's also not managed at a top level for some time so maybe give him some slack.

Bigger concern is reprot at weekend that Ralf is unhappy that board not backign him on signings. Once again we need to stop blaming manger, players etc and focus on the idiots running the club. No sales or loan departures and no signings by mid-January. Why????? Answer, there is no plan, no DOF and no one with a clue on the board.

 

[sparx99]

Sorry, but I think you are making the point for me, in every example you have given the number of experienced players is three to five players, less than half of a team, and once again these are all recognised as exceptional (older) players.

Its becoming overall and in some cases already is, a 'young mans' game, we have too many older ones and not enough spectacular young ones.... Greenwood is perhaps the nearest and his development has 'wobbled' somewhat lately.

Yes, I get that the bulk of the squad may be younger but the most important players are the older ones. They are your guaranteed starters and you rotate the younger lads depending on who is playing well.

If anything as well football is seeing more longevity. The likes of Benzema and Lewandowski would be retired if they played in the 90's.

If anything, I'd say you need a good mix of youth and experience. You want some good pro's winding down their careers, key players in their peak and young players pushing to get into the team. On paper our mix isn't that bad. It's just that everyone is performing poorly including the ones we need to rely on like Maguire and Bruno. Pogba for all his faults is sorely missed in central midfield because even as a flawed option he would have been able to replace Matic or Fred the other night.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Yes, I get that the bulk of the squad may be younger but the most important players are the older ones. They are your guaranteed starters and you rotate the younger lads depending on who is playing well.

If anything as well football is seeing more longevity. The likes of Benzema and Lewandowski would be retired if they played in the 90's.

If anything, I'd say you need a good mix of youth and experience. You want some good pro's winding down their careers, key players in their peak and young players pushing to get into the team. On paper our mix isn't that bad. It's just that everyone is performing poorly including the ones we need to rely on like Maguire and Bruno. Pogba for all his faults is sorely missed in central midfield because even as a flawed option he would have been able to replace Matic or Fred the other night.

Hmm. Pogba the last player to come in and replace a tiring CM when you are looking to defend a lead. I agree you need a mix of age and experience, but again both our CFs are in mid-30s. Rashford and Greenford too young/ out of form and not classic CFs. So we need to adapt formation (see Pep) or buy another player. Remember Cavani was another last gasp Ed signing. Overall done better than I thought but would agrue but now clearly showing his age, actually about been quite poor recently.

 

[Maticmaker]

Yes, I get that the bulk of the squad may be younger but the most important players are the older ones. They are your guaranteed starters and you rotate the younger lads depending on who is playing well.

If anything as well football is seeing more longevity. The likes of Benzema and Lewandowski would be retired if they played in the 90's.

If anything, I'd say you need a good mix of youth and experience. You want some good pro's winding down their careers, key players in their peak and young players pushing to get into the team. On paper our mix isn't that bad. It's just that everyone is performing poorly including the ones we need to rely on like Maguire and Bruno. Pogba for all his faults is sorely missed in central midfield because even as a flawed option he would have been able to replace Matic or Fred the other night.

The longevity of older (top) players only works when they are super-fit and are willing to restyle their personal game to suit the teams emerging needs.

"What is a 'good mix' of youth and experience?

I would argue that looking back on our own club, the older players, lets say the 'experienced' players were always in the majority, seven or eight/nine at least were regular first choice players. Whilst United had a reputation for bring through its 'academy' kids, even before the class of 92', it was only usually one or maybe two players who got a chance at the most, each seasons and only then when either they were exceptional, like Giggs , Beckham, or injuries gave youngsters a chance.
The problem is our core of experienced players are not delivering consistently and, seemingly have all differing sorts of personal hang-ups and problems, therefore the manager will need to bring in younger players not simply to implement his faster, higher press ideas, but simply to survive this period.
On paper we have top class/experienced players and so we did in the mid 70's, but look what happened then, when tales of experienced player woes emerged, and youngsters available at the time were either not good enough, or whose development was seemingly hampered by the disunity in the dressing room.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I generally liked how we played on Sunday in first half, clear difference in approach and pressing, we regurarly won the ball high up which is new. Villa are a better team than their league position suggests and Gerrard has them playing nice football. There are a couple of obvious poinst. The only genuine DM in the squad is 33, and our two experienced CFs have a combined age of 70. We rode the storm in opening 20 of second half, which is fine and most home teams will have periods of pressure. I think after that Ralf's in game management was poor, I would suggest Cavani as a miniumu and then maybe Bruno should have gone off after 2nd goal for VDB and Lingard, or even Rashford. Fresh legs to press and make Villa nervous about the break. But he's also not managed at a top level for some time so maybe give him some slack.

Bigger concern is reprot at weekend that Ralf is unhappy that board not backign him on signings. Once again we need to stop blaming manger, players etc and focus on the idiots running the club. No sales or loan departures and no signings by mid-January. Why????? Answer, there is no plan, no DOF and no one with a clue on the board.

Can you share link?

 

[Roane]

I was pleasantly surprised and happy with how we played in the first 30 odd minutes. We were almost a different team to the last few games.

What worried me the most was that when Villa started to play a bit we seemed to panic. After their first goal we looked scared to me.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Can you share link?

It was in the mirror I believe. Journos etc but still a worry...

 

[Hughie77]

You go 2 up away from home, Mason skins one past the post for nearly 3, then they bring Coutinhio on, and no reaction from the bench! Then it's back to normal by not looking after the ball better, conceding possession way to easy, keep the ball better and you see the game out, theses guys couldn't even do that ffs, you can blame the manager for not making a change before hand, but the guys on the pitch should have done better.

 

[calodo2003]