Portugal Discussion | Roberto Martinez watch

[SCP]

How realistic it is that it'd be Jose next?

Don't believe it's realistic, at least until the end of the season and if the current Under 21 coach takes his role as an interim coach. The Euro Quailifiers are so easy this days even if we finish second place we still qualify directly.

Now unlike others I still have my doubts if he is the best option, not that I look at the coaches working in International Football and they are out of this world, even Luis Enrique and Flick flopped there, but I don't know if he is the right person.

Whoever comes has to solve the Ronaldo question once and for all, I am not one of those who thinks he is to blame for the defeat vs Morocco, after all he started on the bench, but this was the first time I felt some of the players there were tired of the media circus around him and the press conferences all the questions were about him and not the players or tactics, that Piers Morgan interview was terrible, generated a buzz that wasn't helpful.

But no excuses, don't think anything of that affected the performances inside the pitch.

 

[Glorio]

This also brings the question for a country that for decades created top wingers, or at least good players for international level (Futre, Conceição,Figo, Simão, Quaresma,Nani, younger Cristiano) it's quite extraordinary our only reliable solution is Leão or maybe Jota. Not good enough.

Very good point - very weird that you had no one to stretch the pitch when you needed to put pressure on Morocco. Portugal has been a producer of very dangerous wingers for a while

 

[SCP]

Very good point - very weird that you had no one to stretch the pitch when you needed to put pressure on Morocco. Portugal has been a producer of very dangerous wingers for a while

But in the last years we seem unable to produce that type of players. Also Neto already with 2 serious injuries, Jota is a mix between a winger/forward could have been helpfull, but Santos tried to mix a lot of midfielders and there was no space for Leão.

But we clearly lacked someone who opened up things and added speed to challenge the fullbacks, almost everything we had to create from wider positions had to be done by the fullbacks and Cancelo was another problem.

I actually am starting to feel the City players on the NT they struggle there, don't know if it's tactics but it's strange, not the first tournament they look a strange body on the team.

 

[Gringo]

Portuguese football needs a long look at itself. If Argentina can make 2 finals in 3 world cups. This Portugal generation should at least be getting to a semi final in recent tournaments. Is it a mentality issue ? Always pointing fingers at the referee ?

 

[SCP]

Portuguese football needs a long look at itself. If Argentina can make 2 finals in 3 world cups. This Portugal generation should at least be getting to a semi final in recent tournaments. Is it a mentality issue ? Always pointing fingers at the referee ?

Should start first with having better coaches than Fernando Santos level in the first place. He was there 8 years, he already should have gone in 2018. And we had guys in this Forum making excuses for him during years based on 2016.

We don't need to worry with what Argentina has done or why we failed vs Morocco, we need to hire someone who is stronger tactically than Santos, has good comunication both with players and the press, and most importantly, we need someone who is independent from the club lobbys or Mendes diktats.

Reason why I think we are on the same stage as 2002 when they hired Scolari. Sorry but the big majority of our coaches aren't able to be independent from the clubs who made lobby for them to be hired, we are in a difficult situation, and it certainly won't be better with the likes of Mourinho.

 

[SportingCP96]

Should start first with having better coaches than Fernando Santos level in the first place. He was there 8 years, he already should have gone in 2018. And we had guys in this Forum making excuses for him during years based on 2016.

We don't need to worry with what Argentina has done or why we failed vs Morocco, we need to hire someone who is stronger tactically than Santos, has good comunication both with players and the press, and most importantly, we need someone who is independent from the club lobbys or Mendes diktats.

Reason why I think we are on the same stage as 2002 when they hired Scolari. Sorry but the big majority of our coaches aren't able to be independent from the clubs who made lobby for them to be hired, we are in a difficult situation, and it certainly won't be better with the likes of Mourinho.

Jardim was great at Sporting and Monaco but I don’t think he’s the right man for the job.

For me their are only two viable options, Jose Mourinho or Jorge Jesus.

Personally I prefer Jorge Jesus to be coach Brilliant tactician who has succeeded everywhere he has gone. Plays exciting attacking football while also being robust defensively. He’s a leader and does not take shit from anyone. The players we have fit his mold of playing and to me he seems to be the ideal candidate for the job.

His 41212 and 4231 formation would really suit this squad.

 

[RopersReturn]

Have always found Portugal phenomenally entertaining to watch, they really produce some astonishing players.
For this teams sum of parts, they really should have progressed further into the tournament. I think it’s only a matter of time before they find their way back and reach a final.

 

[SportingCP96]

Also think LVG would be a great option. He is free after all and has done phenomenal work with the Dutch. He is also been living in Portugal for a while now and for sure he knows a lot about our players.

 

[SCP]

Personally I prefer Jorge Jesus to be coach Brilliant tactician who has succeeded everywhere he has gone.

Between Jesus and Mourinho always Jesus, even if I don't like his personality. Big problem with him is that a lot of people in Portugal don't like him, would always be divisive, but I am totally against Mourinho, all the ingredients to be a car crash.

Wouldn't mind with Van Gaal but certainly the Football lobbys in Portugal wouldn't want him there, can you imagine them trying to press Van Gaal to play player X instead Y?

They will call a yes man to do what they want. For this I rather try Rui Jorge until 2024 and if it doesn't work we should hire a top class International Manager after Euro 2024. Wouldn't mind to see Conceição here in 2024, he certainly wouldn't take no shit from the players.

 

[kouroux]

Portuguese football needs a long look at itself. If Argentina can make 2 finals in 3 world cups. This Portugal generation should at least be getting to a semi final in recent tournaments. Is it a mentality issue ? Always pointing fingers at the referee ?

Portugal is a much smaller country tbh. They should be better at a lot of things and you're right but Argentina is on another level history wise

 

[Zoo]

 

[SCP]

Portugal is a much smaller country tbh. They should be better at a lot of things and you're right but Argentina is on another level history wise

That argument is easily rebated when in the last 2 WC's Croatia made 2 semifinals, it has nothing to do with history, it's about performing in WC's.

 

[kouroux]

That argument is easily rebated when in the last 2 WC's Croatia made 2 semifinals, it has nothing to do with history, it's about performing in WC's.

Croatia is a phenomenal exception tbh. Portugal should do better that's for sure but just saying the comparison with Argentina is a bit unfair.

 

[SCP]

Croatia is a phenomenal exception tbh. Portugal should do better that's for sure but just saying the comparison with Argentina is a bit unfair.

But no one is saying we should do better than Argentina, the poster has some reason regarding underperforming, particularly in WC's, we should be more consistent, don't think at the Euros we are so inconsistent.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I don't rate current Jose, but I think he's perfect for national team management. I reckon he would be a huge win for Portugal.

 

[SCP]

I don't rate current Jose, but I think he's perfect for national team management. I reckon he would be a huge win for Portugal.

We don't know how he would adapt into International Football, that's the point.

 

[kouroux]

But no one is saying we should do better than Argentina, the poster has some reason regarding underperforming, particularly in WC's, we should be more consistent, don't think at the Euros we are so inconsistent.

I wasn't arguing "better"

 

[Xeque_279]

Also think LVG would be a great option. He is free after all and has done phenomenal work with the Dutch. He is also been living in Portugal for a while now and for sure he knows a lot about our players.

No way should LVG be anywhere close to the National Team. Santos's negative brand of football led to the underperformance of one of the best generations of Portuguese footballers, can't have another coach of the same ilk come and shackle them up.
Need someone with the personality to handle the big names, make them work hard and utilize all the talent to play some beautiful football.

 

[SCP]

No way should LVG be anywhere close to the National Team. Santos's negative brand of football led to the underperformance of one of the best generations of Portuguese footballers, can't have another coach of the same ilk come and shackle them up.
Need someone with the personality to handle the big names, make them work hard and utilize all the talent to play some beautiful football.

You're not seriously trying to compare Van Gaal with Santos are you?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

We don't know how he would adapt into International Football, that's the point.

Sure but his style is a great match. Tactically in one off games and moments he’s still pretty strong. It’s his man management that severely lets him down but I don’t think that’s such a big issue in international terms. I also think a more cautious approach works better in international football than in club football. I really do think he would be a success for you.

 

[Xeque_279]

You're not seriously trying to compare Van Gaal with Santos are you?

Santos is a dinosaur but I don't see LVG being an improvement. He's known to be very rigid with his tactics, not allowing players freedom. Too much talent in this Portuguese generation to be wasted like that.

 

[SCP]

Santos is a dinosaur but I don't see LVG being an improvement. He's known to be very rigid with his tactics, not allowing players freedom. Too much talent in this Portuguese generation to be wasted like that.

Give me the rigidity of Van Gaal for International Football all the way over Santos ineptude. Having said that, some of your points are valid regarding LVG.

 

[Gringo]

I think Jorge Jesus would be a really interesting appointment. A coach with some fire in his belly. The influx of Portuguese coaches post Mourinho is staggering, its never been stronger. No excuses not to get it right this time.

Jardim or Jesus for me. I'm tired of pragmatic and defensive coaches.

 

[SCP]

The influx of Portuguese coaches post Mourinho is staggering, its never been stronger. No excuses not to get it right this time.

I actually don't agree with that part. Not that post Mourinho wasn't true but I don't see nothing special outside Conceição or Amorim in our League. I even already said if at Sporting the day Amorim leaves I rather have a foreign coach. I feel there's a bit of stagnation on that department this last years.

At youth level it's the opposite, particularly at club level, not the ex players who work in the Portuguese Federation who never did nothing to be there in the first place.

 

[SCP]

It's getting strange because after those 2/3 days post Santos leaving and the inevitable Mourinho rumours the reality is that the situation remains exactly the same, quite honestly at least in January they will have to decide this.

Hopefully they won't give Rui Jorge a interim role until Mourinho solves his situation with Roma at the end of the season, I have some doubts he is the right person for this job. Only would support him if he had the balls to renew the team from the start.

 

[Arruda]

I think Jorge Jesus would be a really interesting appointment. A coach with some fire in his belly. The influx of Portuguese coaches post Mourinho is staggering, its never been stronger. No excuses not to get it right this time.

Jardim or Jesus for me. I'm tired of pragmatic and defensive coaches.

I never thought of it and it doesn't sound like the stupidest of ideas. He's nearing 70, so it would probably be somewhat short-term, for a couple of tournaments. Still I think it could be fun to watch how he would approach a job like this. For better or worse, he's an interesting character.

 

[SCP]

I never thought of it and it doesn't sound like the stupidest of ideas. He's nearing 70, so it would probably be somewhat short-term, for a couple of tournaments. Still I think it could be fun to watch how he would approach a job like this. For better or worse, he's an interesting character.

Call me crazy but between him and Mourinho I still would like more Jesus. But some players wouldn't like to work under him. The likes of Bernardo Silva always come to my mind...

 

[Deco10Legend]

Not Jesus, we would get too much attention for the wrong reasons ahah.

Jardim would be a better option.

 

[SCP]

Not Jesus, we would get too much attention for the wrong reasons ahah.

Jardim would be a better option.

Nah man, Jardim has done nothing relevant on the last couple of years.

 

[Pintu]

Jardim may be coachning at a much lower lever. But he’s been doing alright there…

 

[SCP]

Jardim may be coachning at a much lower lever. But he’s been doing alright there…

Yeah but after that he was sacked. His carreer has been strange, he looks one of those who lost his motivation for the job at a younger age. Looks he lost the passion for the job, to innovate, keep progressing. Really weird.

 

[Arruda]

Jardim is bland. I think Portugal's squad at this time has enough quality that qualifying and getting out of group stages should be guaranteed for any manager unless he really gets everything wrong.

When Jesus gets it right his teams can play impressive attacking football. I think that can give the spark to hope for something more than we've been doing, or at least be more entertained if we don't go very far. His major issue is his personality, that impacts mid-term and long-term more and is probably less of an issue in a NT as compared to a club, given that players can rest from his idiocy for long periods.

 

[SCP]

Jardim is bland. I think Portugal's squad at this time has enough quality that qualifying and getting out of group stages should be guaranteed for any manager unless he really gets everything wrong.

I agree.

When Jesus gets it right his teams can play impressive attacking football. I think that can give the spark to hope for something more than we've been doing, or at least be more entertained if we don't go very far.

Also true.

His major issue is his personality, that impacts mid-term and long-term more and is probably less of an issue in a NT as compared to a club, given that players can rest from his idiocy for long periods.

The 2 problems he might have is lack of time to coach this players and his tendency to be sometimes horribly wrong evaluating the quality of some players, but certainly would be more entertaining than Mourinho. I wonder when will they decide something.

 

[SCP]

For those who don't remember Ronaldo or Quaresma dribbling, sometimes it's good to wake them up.

 

[Vidyoyo]

For those who don't remember Ronaldo or Quaresma dribbling, sometimes it's good to wake them up.

It's actually mad to think there's United supporters on this forum who don't remember Ronaldo's dribbling. They either have very short memories or are teenagers.

 

[r1z3mu]

I think Portugal badly underperformed. There have so many great players and I have no explanation as to what has happened in WC22. Was it coaching? Ronaldo affecting other players in negative way? Not being ready to leave everything on the pitch?

 

[Glorio]

I think Portugal badly underperformed. There have so many great players and I have no explanation as to what has happened in WC22. Was it coaching? Ronaldo affecting other players in negative way? Not being ready to leave everything on the pitch?

Lack of genuine wide players

 

[Gringo]

For those who don't remember Ronaldo or Quaresma dribbling, sometimes it's good to wake them up.

Today's footballing world is so obsessed about GOAT's. Not enough emphasis about players who made the sport fun and a joy to watch, Quaresma at Porto was such theatre.

I think Portugal badly underperformed. There have so many great players and I have no explanation as to what has happened in WC22. Was it coaching? Ronaldo affecting other players in negative way? Not being ready to leave everything on the pitch?

Lot of factors. It's a cup competition, you need luck and you also need the right mentality. Portugal struggle to overturn deficits and are pretty weak mentality in game situations. That is a coaching issue and a player camp issue.

 

[SCP]

It's actually mad to think there's United supporters on this forum who don't remember Ronaldo's dribbling. They either have very short memories or are teenagers.

Tbf he really was 3 different players during his carreer, this version between 2002 and 2007 was the most fun to watch but one of those where he was looked as not efficient enough, then until 2015 he was a goalscoring machine but still playing on his more natural position, after that it was when we can say he was less self sufficient and needed more the other players to create for him to keep going as a goal machine.

Today's footballing world is so obsessed about GOAT's. Not enough emphasis about players who made the sport fun and a joy to watch, Quaresma at Porto was such theatre.

In todays football you would have 25 data nerds on Twitter saying these are non effective actions. They really have a point here, but it turns out what brought Football to be the most popular sport around the World was that people went into the stadiums to watch the best who did the right things and those who beside winning also entertained, this days there's no space for players like this in top leagues.

Or at least on the top teams who want to win Champions League or WC's, unless you are a freak like Messi, or at least someone like Neymar, of course let's not make it as if Quaresma was a perfect guy, even he admitted that he didn't had the right mentality to perform in the top Leagues.

 

[Zehner]

Tbf he really was 3 different players during his carreer, this version between 2002 and 2007 was the most fun to watch but one of those where he was looked as not efficient enough, then until 2015 he was a goalscoring machine but still playing on his more natural position, after that it was when we can say he was less self sufficient and needed more the other players to create for him to keep going as a goal machine.


In todays football you would have 25 data nerds on Twitter saying these are non effective actions. They really have a point here, but it turns out what brought Football to be the most popular sport around the World was that people went into the stadiums to watch the best who did the right things and those who beside winning also entertained, this days there's no space for players like this in top leagues.

Or at least on the top teams who want to win Champions League or WC's, unless you are a freak like Messi, or at least someone like Neymar, of course let's not make it as if Quaresma was a perfect guy, even he admitted that he didn't had the right mentality to perform in the top Leagues.

I think my favorite version was between 2008 and 2013 or so when he was still unplayable but incredibly efficient at the same time. I was never a big fan of the showboating on the sideline. Not that I don't love skills but Cristiano tended to do them purely for entertainment, not to dribble somebody. That was always the difference to somebody like Ronaldinho or later Neymar for me. But when he cut that away and still regularly dribbled past two or three players and was involved in all sorts of way in the majority of attacks.. that was something else.

I'm also more optimistic of the future in this regard. There are lots of very exciting players out there that still dribble a lot and entertain the crowds. Personally, I have not given up on Sancho and Felix - those two are so much fun to watch on their day.