Pogba Future

Would you accept Dybala and Sandro for Pogba?

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    2,002
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DoomSlayer said:
So you really have no issue with Pogba weakening United's bargaining power by going public with all this? The club basically backed the players and him specifically by sacking Mourinho, same goes for most of the fans. How is him turning around and suddenly wanting to leave not a bad move towards the manager or the team?

If he was so hellbent on getting out, do it privately and allow us to get the proper value from a supposed sale. With the way things are, the likes of Real Madrid think they can bully us in accepting derogatory offers in the region of 80 million euros plus some of their deadwood players. It's absolutely preposterous in my eyes and it only serves to fill Raiola's pocket yet again. Just another evidence that Sir Alex was totally correct in calling that fat wannabe Neapolitan gangster a "shitebag".

Why are Manchester United fans suddenly so caring about what is good for a player's career if they want to leave the club? Should we not be more worried about what the feck is happening to our team instead?

And anyway, I said in my previous comments - if Ole is fine with him staying and if Pogba gives a 100%, I will support him, simple as that. But I've lost respect for him as a human being, that's all and when he eventually leaves, wouldn't give a single feck about him, unlike many of our former players.
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You are intent on holding whatever it is you want to hold against Pogba, so much so you already told yourself a story in which the evil mastermind Pogba spun naive Solskjaer in a complex and intricate web of lies just to stab him in the back by wanting out.

Again, Raiola stated the club were aware of Pogba's wishes and what I take from that is that it had already been communicated internally, couple that with our reported stance of not gonna sell and our manager's comments regarding the matter then its likely United was not going to budge, hence the player making it public.

For transparency, I like Pogba. I think he is a phenomenal player, and although inconsistent, he has not had the support needed in terms of quality team-mates. For perspective, since returning to United, the best midfielder he has arguably played with was a semi-retired Carrick. The way people jump on his back for having an extroverted personality and/or for every bad result, has made me develop a soft spot for the guy. But no, I don't think United fans are suddenly caring about what's good for a player's career, some of us just know we are currently a shit club and as such its understandable why someone of his quality, and with better options, would want to leave and take the avenues necessary to make that happen. Like I said, when a club has shit players, fans expectations are that the club should sell the player asap, so I can't really be mad at a player for wanting to look after himself and doing what's best for them, especially when a footballer's career and prime are relatively short.

Fair enough, I don't believe Pogba has done anything that merits losing respect as a human being. All the guy did was make a transfer request, it is not that serious. He is on tour training and getting ready, and according to the manager being a model professional, and that's all I can ask of him really.
 
TsuWave said:
You are intent on holding whatever it is you want to hold against Pogba, so much so you already told yourself a story in which the evil mastermind Pogba spun naive Solskjaer in a complex and intricate web of lies just to stab him in the back by wanting out.

Again, Raiola stated the club were aware of Pogba's wishes and what I take from that is that it had already been communicated internally, couple that with our reported stance of not gonna sell and our manager's comments regarding the matter then its likely United was not going to budge, hence the player making it public.

For transparency, I like Pogba. I think he is a phenomenal player, and although inconsistent, he has not had the support needed in terms of quality team-mates. For perspective, since returning to United, the best midfielder he has arguably played with was a semi-retired Carrick. The way people jump on his back for having an extroverted personality and/or for every bad result, has made me develop a soft spot for the guy. But no, I don't think United fans are suddenly caring about what's good for a player's career, some of us just know we are currently a shit club and as such its understandable why someone of his quality, and with better options, would want to leave and take the avenues necessary to make that happen. Like I said, when a club has shit players, fans expectations are that the club should sell the player asap, so I can't really be mad at a player for wanting to look after himself and doing what's best for them, especially when a footballer's career and prime are relatively short.

Fair enough, I don't believe Pogba has done anything that merits losing respect as a human being. All the guy did was make a transfer request, it is not that serious. He is on tour training and getting ready, and according to the manager being a model professional, and that's all I can ask of him really.
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For what it's worth, I respect your opinion, apart from when previously you tried to go personal on me for some reason. I was in the same boat as you until it all went public and his demeanour just reiterated my feelings.

Maybe time will change my perception to it but I doubt it, sometimes I'm a bit of a "love hard, but hate harder" type of guy, which isn't a really good trait to have and it can be a bit self-destructive, but it is what it is. Your point of view gave me a chance of some self reflection, however I stand by my stance. All I care about is the good of the club so if Ole backs Pogba and the player shows commitment, I'm going to support that seriously. Time will tell what was right and what not, I suppose.
 
Peyroteo said:
What nonsense. So he doesn't fit in the only two ways you think it's possible for a midfield to work in modern football?

France just won the World Cup with a midfield that didn't play like either of those. For you it's either Klopp football, Pep football or no football at all. There are loads of different styles that work in football and different players with different strengths can succeed depending on it, if he goes to Madrid he'll be an absolute star under Zidane just like he was under Conte in Turin.

You talk as if there are two or three ways of playing football successfully and every single manager that doesn't do it is an idiot. United's main problem is that their players aren't as good as their rivals' players. Their problem is lack of quality, getting rid of the only bit of quality they already have won't do anything but make them worse.

That's talking about his impact on the pitch only, if he's having a negative impact on the dressing room then that's a different matter and it might be better to let him go.
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Of course there are many ways of playing football but currently two brands dominate clearly. You could maybe make a case for a third, being the Conte/Simeone/Allegri/Mourinho way but it' s been some time since one of those won a trophy of note against competition on eye sight or even above it. The problem I have with these styles is that you never want to play them if you are the superior team. You admit that the other is better than you and bet on fluking a result. And against weaker teams, you simply win through individual - mainly because your opponent plays the same way you play against stronger ones.

And then there are coaches like Heynckes or Ancelotti who don't have a clear vision in mind but adapt their style to what's currently successful. Those work well, especially when they take over from a coach who stands for a certain system.

I really struggle to understand how one can't see the pattern. Every truly great or truly overachieving team of the past played one of those styles. The top four of the EPL do justblike the top four of the BL. La Liga has been dominated for years by Barca who also fielded the best team of our generation under Guardiola. In Italy, Napoli under Sarri gave the individually far and away superior Juve a run for their money. Spain and Germany, the best national teams of the last 10 years, which also won 2 euros and two WCs, play that way.
 
kouroux said:
Besides nothing suggests that Zidane so, it's all speculation from media.
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Yeah, there's a lack of anything very concrete coming from any interested party.

But then again, it would be very odd for Pogba and his agent to be so open about wanting a move if nothing in particular has been discussed behind the scenes.

Unless, of course, they have no genuine desire to move - only a desire to sign an improved contract.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yeah, there's a lack of anything very concrete coming from any interested party.

But then again, it would be very odd for Pogba and his agent to be so open about wanting a move if nothing in particular has been discussed behind the scenes.

Unless, of course, they have no genuine desire to move - only a desire to sign an improved contract.
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Or maybe they're just fishing for offers ?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yeah, there's a lack of anything very concrete coming from any interested party.

But then again, it would be very odd for Pogba and his agent to be so open about wanting a move if nothing in particular has been discussed behind the scenes.

Unless, of course, they have no genuine desire to move - only a desire to sign an improved contract.
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I've heard we are supposedly offering Pogba £500,000 per week. Which I think is ludicrous and something that he definitely doesn't deserve.
 
kouroux said:
Or maybe they're just fishing for offers ?
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Could be that too, yes.

Not a risk free game, that, though. United are in a decent position, really. If there's nobody willing to fork out - what - 150m or thereabouts, it could easily be spun as" wantaway Billy Big Bollocks not actually wanted by anyone".

Plus, he'll possibly not endear himself too much with his team mates, etc.

I have no idea, really. I dislike Raiola as much as the next United fan, but he's not a fool. He probably knows what he's doing, one way or the other.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Could be that too, yes.

Not a risk free game, that, though. United are in a decent position, really. If there's nobody willing to fork out - what - 150m or thereabouts, it could easily be spun as" wantaway Billy Big Bollocks not actually wanted by anyone".

Plus, he'll possibly not endear himself too much with his team mates, etc.

I have no idea, really. I dislike Raiola as much as the next United fan, but he's not a fool. He probably knows what he's doing, one way or the other.
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Although I dislike Raiolas he seems a shrewd guy. I think he is holding for for as much as he can get, to get a fat chunk of the fee to line his pockets, as it was claimed he made £41m from Pogba's transfer to us.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Could be that too, yes.

Not a risk free game, that, though. United are in a decent position, really. If there's nobody willing to fork out - what - 150m or thereabouts, it could easily be spun as" wantaway Billy Big Bollocks not actually wanted by anyone".

Plus, he'll possibly not endear himself too much with his team mates, etc.

I have no idea, really. I dislike Raiola as much as the next United fan, but he's not a fool. He probably knows what he's doing, one way or the other.
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Spot on. The man doesn't become who he is by luck, he knows how to make money for himself and his clients. One thing I'm noticing is that his clients rarely go on "strike" or skip training if they're in the middle of transfer sagas
 
clarkydaz said:
Imagine that, payrise and make him captain. Id have even less respect for him if he stayed
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So would I. I can't believe they offered that money and were willing to offer him captaincy as well as he has made is so plainfully obvious that he doesn't want to be here. I would like to get rid of him as soon as possible mate.
 
Eric's Seagull said:
think he is holding for for as much as he can get, to get a fat chunk of the fee to line his pockets, as it was claimed he made £41m from Pogba's transfer to us.
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Wonder how much of a bonus he gets for renegotiated deals - probably a tidy sum too.

kouroux said:
One thing I'm noticing is that his clients rarely go on "strike" or skip training if they're in the middle of transfer sagas
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Good point. In fact, I don't think the "sulking, toxic Pog" scenario is all that likely. If he/they simply can't get what they want at this stage (big money move or big contract improvement), I think he/they will see the sense in "doing a Ronaldo", i.e. settle down for one more season.

Mind you, what a "non-sulking" Pog actually amounts to is another matter (I strongly suspect that's a less useful player than Ronaldo was for us in his last season) - but going on strike, downing tools, that sort of nonsense: no, don't think we'll see anything like that.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Wonder how much of a bonus he gets for renegotiated deals - probably a tidy sum too.



Good point. In fact, I don't think the "sulking, toxic Pog" scenario is all that likely. If he/they simply can't get what they want at this stage (big money move or big contract improvement), I think he/they will see the sense in "doing a Ronaldo", i.e. settle down for one more season.

Mind you, what a "non-sulking" Pog actually amounts to is another matter (I strongly suspect that's a less useful player than Ronaldo was for us in his last season) - but going on strike, downing tools, that sort of nonsense: no, don't think we'll see anything like that.
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Ronaldo still had some very good numbers and performances in his last season. Pogba is a bit of a mystery, a big drop in performances can see him threatened for France for the Euros. I think he might coast it, not play near his best but just do enough, which is something we don't need
 
Zehner said:
Of course there are many ways of playing football but currently two brands dominate clearly. You could maybe make a case for a third, being the Conte/Simeone/Allegri/Mourinho way but it' s been some time since one of those won a trophy of note against competition on eye sight or even above it. The problem I have with these styles is that you never want to play them if you are the superior team. You admit that the other is better than you and bet on fluking a result. And against weaker teams, you simply win through individual - mainly because your opponent plays the same way you play against stronger ones.

And then there are coaches like Heynckes or Ancelotti who don't have a clear vision in mind but adapt their style to what's currently successful. Those work well, especially when they take over from a coach who stands for a certain system.

I really struggle to understand how one can't see the pattern. Every truly great or truly overachieving team of the past played one of those styles. The top four of the EPL do justblike the top four of the BL. La Liga has been dominated for years by Barca who also fielded the best team of our generation under Guardiola. In Italy, Napoli under Sarri gave the individually far and away superior Juve a run for their money. Spain and Germany, the best national teams of the last 10 years, which also won 2 euros and two WCs, play that way.
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Conte has nothing to do with Simeone, Allegri or Mourinho and viceversa IMO. Sarri's Napoli is very different from Sarri's Chelsea and most likely very different from Sarri's Juve. In the end the only thing that count is results and you can get those thru different styles of football that are more affected by the type of players you can buy. If you have the luxury of buying everything you want like Pep, then maybe you can keep your style no matter what but for most managers that is not the case.
I get many people love possession style football with more offensive approach, but that is not necessarily the most successful one . Team wins when they have the best players not the best style
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Wonder how much of a bonus he gets for renegotiated deals - probably a tidy sum too.



Good point. In fact, I don't think the "sulking, toxic Pog" scenario is all that likely. If he/they simply can't get what they want at this stage (big money move or big contract improvement), I think he/they will see the sense in "doing a Ronaldo", i.e. settle down for one more season.

Mind you, what a "non-sulking" Pog actually amounts to is another matter (I strongly suspect that's a less useful player than Ronaldo was for us in his last season) - but going on strike, downing tools, that sort of nonsense: no, don't think we'll see anything like that.
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No i agree. He won't make a fuss. Will probably coast through the season though and we can't afford that.
 
Can7onA said:
He's coasted through every season, why would it be any different now.
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Well if he has the same end product as last season and the team match him. We should make top 4. So hopefully he is no different
 
I honestly don't care about Pogba's career, why would I; I'm a Man United fan, not a Paul Pogba fan. If he's part of United being successful, great, if not, I don't care about him.

If Pogba didn't want to be here long term or only wanted to be with us while we were in the CL, then he shouldn't have signed a long contact. However he did.

Ergo we (or I should say Ole) have every right to play him as we see fit for the remainder of his contact, and if that means we decide that for the remainder of his contract he should play in the reserves, that's our right too. It is up to Pogba to make our team, not the other way round.

Maybe that's what Ole should do, forget about costing the club a hypothetical transfer fee or hypothetical future wins involving Pogba, send him to the reserves and remind the world that no player is bigger than the club or the manager, just like it was under Fergie

We don't pay him x amount of money stand on the pitch for 90/180 minutes a week, we pay him to put in the effort on the pitch, in the dressing room and on the training ground and to earn his spot in the team every single week.

If someone approaches is with an offer that we deem acceptable, then fine, well sell him, if not, he stays.
 
nonetheless said:
Conte has nothing to do with Simeone, Allegri or Mourinho and viceversa IMO. Sarri's Napoli is very different from Sarri's Chelsea and most likely very different from Sarri's Juve. In the end the only thing that count is results and you can get those thru different styles of football that are more affected by the type of players you can buy. If you have the luxury of buying everything you want like Pep, then maybe you can keep your style no matter what but for most managers that is not the case.
I get many people love possession style football with more offensive approach, but that is not necessarily the most successful one . Team wins when they have the best players not the best style
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It's a synergy. Good systems make players look better, and good players make systems look better. Some systems require a certain base level of quality, like Pep's. Some systems are better to make a quality advantage count, others are better in making players punch above their weights. One alone won't win you anything anymore.

And yes, of course no time is the same and they differ in certain details but I think suggesting certain coaches and their teams don't belong in the same category is a silly thing to say. Yet, I'd say a functioning system is the bigger leverage than quality players. There are countless examples of teams consisting of superstars that were completely underwhelming because they had no system and were over reliant on individual class.

However, I think it's completely obvious that there are currently two dominant styles in the game which have proven to be the way to go if you want to win something. And it's been like that since probably 10-12 years already. Even Atletico Simeone used to be much more reminiscent of a Klopp team than they are now in the time they reached the CL final and won the league.
 


Haven't found the complete article.

Here is the video link
http://www.espn.co.uk/video/clip?id=27156535

"It's not Pogba desperately itching for a move, I think it's Pogba itching for a resolution way forward. Either new contract or commitment from the club about the squad or if there is an offer out there and it works moving elsewhere. But it's not like he is desperate to leave Old Trafford as some people have suggested"
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I’ve always thought this could end up being the solution. Much like the Rooney scenario.
 
Probably controversial but I do believe he should be on ~425k and be the top earner at the club. He's our best player and big star worldwide. The Sanchez deal really put a few noses out of joint.

In a shite season he was our one player who did well. Yes it wasn't every game but the others around him were spectacularly poor.
 
redshaw said:
Probably controversial but I do believe he should be on ~425k and be the top earner at the club. He's our best player and big star worldwide. The Sanchez deal really put a few noses out of joint.

In a shite season he was our one player who did well. Yes it wasn't every game but the others around him were spectacularly poor.
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You want us to pay 425k pw to a player who doesn’t want to be here, and build our wage structure around Sanchez’s wage?
We’ll go bankrupt.
 
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He has probably been told that Madrid can't/won't do it this transfer window and will probably get more money in a contract extension.

Win for us as far as I'm concerned.
 
A whole lot ado about nothing. Pogba and DeGea are our only real world-class players so to think we'd be better off without either of them is just insane. I've been harsh on him too so I get it - personally there are times I have problems accepting both his work rate and general attitude - plus his constant flirtation with other clubs is an offense for sure and as unprofessional as it gets - but then again there are other times when he really shines and saves an otherwise useless day so... He's not the leader we need and he's not someone you can expect to carry the day every time - in fact we'll need others around him to pick up his slack at times - but he's still a star player no doubts and per now our top performer. I'd rather build a team around him that can make up for his shortcomings - and hopefully one that will motivates him to put in his best every single match - than to lose him.

Either way replacing him is no priority - there are other areas that are way more urgent so losing him will only add to our challenge.
 
BluesJr said:
Yeah fairly. Not sure which ‘tier’ he is but that’s a very flawed system anyway.
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I saw this video just now so it seems the spirits are high in the squad and Pogba seems committed. I'm fine with that, whatever is best for the club and I trust Ole in making the right decisions.

But what the hell was Young even doing there? :wenger: So typical of him.
 
DoomSlayer said:
For what it's worth, I respect your opinion, apart from when previously you tried to go personal on me for some reason. I was in the same boat as you until it all went public and his demeanour just reiterated my feelings.

Maybe time will change my perception to it but I doubt it, sometimes I'm a bit of a "love hard, but hate harder" type of guy, which isn't a really good trait to have and it can be a bit self-destructive, but it is what it is. Your point of view gave me a chance of some self reflection, however I stand by my stance. All I care about is the good of the club so if Ole backs Pogba and the player shows commitment, I'm going to support that seriously. Time will tell what was right and what not, I suppose.
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Perhaps pogba had to go public with the transfer request because everyome at United knows he wants to leave but they won't allow it to happen. His only option was to go public to try and accelerate his departure with the fans calling for him to be transferred as well.

Might not be the right way about doing things but he's done what he's had to.
 
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