You won't end up with the full range of movements in the knee if you don't do the stretching. If you don't do the muscle rebuilding you end up having the knee joint take the all of the shock all the time when running. The muscles act like shock absorbers and the stronger they are the better it is for the knee. This actually applies to everyone, even if you havent had an ACL repair.
Players who have had ACL surgery, whats the prognosis?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
That's phenomenal to be honest!
Despite the advances of surgery, ACL is still a major injury.
Few issues here:
-Physical damage
-Mental recovery
-Proprioception
Physical aspect is obvious - you tear your ACL, you gotta have it repaired via the latest Orthopaedic method, as well as checking for any associated injuries usually to the cartilage.
Proprioception - we've all got tiny tiny "sensors" in our bodies detecting certain things (i.e touch, heat, pain etc..). Proprioceptors are those responsible for balance by providing info to the brain about your joint / muscle length / angle etc.. With major injuries (even twisting your ankle, im sure we've all done that), these get fecked. How many times have you had an injury, like the ankle twist, and then realise that similar injuries start occurring in the weeks after? Why do certain players become "injury prone" when they werent prior?
Its because their ability to maintain balance / posture / composure diminishes with certain injuries, and building proprioception back up is definitely doable which is why you have examples of players who reach their peak again, but like a lot people mentioned, this is down almost 100% to rehab and physiotherapy. And im talking days and weeks and months of sitting on your ass, extending your leg up, then moving it up and down for like a bloody hour. Boring and tedious as shit, but those who stick with it reap the benefits. Having said that, the degree of proprioception required could be dependent on sport intensity (PL vs Sunday league).
Mental Recovery - probably the biggest obstacle to most people. Mental strength. The sheer fear of "the injury happening again" can either cause you to put safety first and thus play to a maximum of 70 - 80% of your capability, or lack of trust in yourself / medical staff / physiotherapist can you make you feel that the injury never healed, and you're "not back at 100%". Of course you're not at 100%, you've been out for friggin 8 months, give it time and trust your body. Some people DO require counselling on such matters, and many patients do opt for that to keep their mental state in check.
ACL - injury itself is just another injury, its the post injury recovery period thats a test of ones character and physical state.
Few issues here:
-Physical damage
-Mental recovery
-Proprioception
Physical aspect is obvious - you tear your ACL, you gotta have it repaired via the latest Orthopaedic method, as well as checking for any associated injuries usually to the cartilage.
Proprioception - we've all got tiny tiny "sensors" in our bodies detecting certain things (i.e touch, heat, pain etc..). Proprioceptors are those responsible for balance by providing info to the brain about your joint / muscle length / angle etc.. With major injuries (even twisting your ankle, im sure we've all done that), these get fecked. How many times have you had an injury, like the ankle twist, and then realise that similar injuries start occurring in the weeks after? Why do certain players become "injury prone" when they werent prior?
Its because their ability to maintain balance / posture / composure diminishes with certain injuries, and building proprioception back up is definitely doable which is why you have examples of players who reach their peak again, but like a lot people mentioned, this is down almost 100% to rehab and physiotherapy. And im talking days and weeks and months of sitting on your ass, extending your leg up, then moving it up and down for like a bloody hour. Boring and tedious as shit, but those who stick with it reap the benefits. Having said that, the degree of proprioception required could be dependent on sport intensity (PL vs Sunday league).
Mental Recovery - probably the biggest obstacle to most people. Mental strength. The sheer fear of "the injury happening again" can either cause you to put safety first and thus play to a maximum of 70 - 80% of your capability, or lack of trust in yourself / medical staff / physiotherapist can you make you feel that the injury never healed, and you're "not back at 100%". Of course you're not at 100%, you've been out for friggin 8 months, give it time and trust your body. Some people DO require counselling on such matters, and many patients do opt for that to keep their mental state in check.
ACL - injury itself is just another injury, its the post injury recovery period thats a test of ones character and physical state.
Like one of my orthopaedic professors used to say in his strong scottish accent:
"After you fix the injury, and the patient is pain free, MOBILISE the joint as soon possible!! Or else it will get stiff, and thats your fault laddy."
This man was a genius honestly, I was thinking fek that, must be painful to do all that so soon. But research actually shows early mobilisation maintains ROM (range of movement) and helps prevent joint stiffness!
I think Steadman retired, or has stopped doing these surgeries for one reason or another. He's getting on age-wise.
Operated on my brother years back.
In reality it's not, ligament injuries are bad because you need to completely rest during a long period of time and therefore you lose a substantial part of your physical habilities (the learned ones), but after that you are okay, and then you need to work a lot to comeback at a good level and you need to be very disciplined in term of musculation and stretching but football players seems to neglect all that, they either don't respect the resting period or don't work enough when they can.
You also need to work on your technical abilities because you didn't worked them for a long period.
Ligament injuries are very common in sports, but for some reason it's a bigger deal in football, and i think that it's because of the patient and the medical staff, who aren't good enough.
It seems then that a lot of the 'problems' can actually be more mental then physical? I guess that might explain why it looks like Falcao isn't quite playing at 100% yet, although saying that, he didn't seem bothered by it when sliding on his knees to celebrate his goal (maybe that was just the adrenaline kicking in mind).
Interesting stats I found. ACLs in the Bundesliga in the recent season(s) and how long the recovery took/takes
Yeah a complete recovery from an ACL is completely possible nowadays. NFL players get them all the time. But the experts and people in the know call it a second year injury. In that you generally go back to your very best in your 2nd season after one.
Physically, If you follow the rehab to a t then most players can make full recoveries. But coming back from an injury like an ACL is as much of a mental recovery as it is a physical one. Both during the rehab and when you start playing again.
Physically, If you follow the rehab to a t then most players can make full recoveries. But coming back from an injury like an ACL is as much of a mental recovery as it is a physical one. Both during the rehab and when you start playing again.
My surgeon told me that there's a lot of new evidence that the best long-term outcomes come when people don't do any competitive sports for at least 12 months after the operation. Obviously not an option for professional footballers but some of those really short return to football timelines will probably cause them a lot of grief later in their life.
Sorry but you are quite wrong with some of this.
I had my operation on a Friday afternoon. On the Saturday afternoon with crutches I attended the game a team I coached was playing. Two days later I was walking without the aid of crutches. I had a cooling pad I had to wear for the first week which circulated cool water around the joint when seated and I had very little swelling after the operation.
You will be surprised at how soon after an ACL operation you start the rehab program. Here is a rehab program very similar to what i did.
http://www.physiosouth.co.nz/files/docs/acl reconstruction rehabilitation program.pdf
When i say rest i mean comparing to full effort you concentrate on the rehab, you don't do stupid thing like trying to prove that you are better by coming too soon.
So. Just wondering if anyone has any experience of re-rupturing the ACL that was operated on?
I'm 18 months post-op and been playing twice a week for the last few months (previously just weekly) My knee had got a bit achey and I was considering dropping out of Sunday's game but turned up anyway. I was changing direction when my knee gave way. Felt a bit like it hyper-extended, even though my leg was bent at the time. Didn't hurt much at all. Not remotely comparable to the fecking agony I was in after the original injury. I was able to walk immediately and actually ended running around for the rest of the game. My knee didn't feel right though, I was really worried it would give way again, so I took it fairly handy. Has swollen up overnight and I'm hobbling round today.
Obviously, will give my surgeon a shout when the swelling has settled and see what he thinks. Might need another MRI. Just curious to hear if a replaced ligament might be a lot less painful to rupture. It will probably have a lot less nerves in it, so I guess it's possible. Meanwhile, all I can do is cross my fingers and wait. Chances are my footballing days are over
I'm 18 months post-op and been playing twice a week for the last few months (previously just weekly) My knee had got a bit achey and I was considering dropping out of Sunday's game but turned up anyway. I was changing direction when my knee gave way. Felt a bit like it hyper-extended, even though my leg was bent at the time. Didn't hurt much at all. Not remotely comparable to the fecking agony I was in after the original injury. I was able to walk immediately and actually ended running around for the rest of the game. My knee didn't feel right though, I was really worried it would give way again, so I took it fairly handy. Has swollen up overnight and I'm hobbling round today.
Obviously, will give my surgeon a shout when the swelling has settled and see what he thinks. Might need another MRI. Just curious to hear if a replaced ligament might be a lot less painful to rupture. It will probably have a lot less nerves in it, so I guess it's possible. Meanwhile, all I can do is cross my fingers and wait. Chances are my footballing days are over
So. Just wondering if anyone has any experience of re-rupturing the ACL that was operated on?
I'm 18 months post-op and been playing twice a week for the last few months (previously just weekly) My knee had got a bit achey and I was considering dropping out of Sunday's game but turned up anyway. I was changing direction when my knee gave way. Felt a bit like it hyper-extended, even though my leg was bent at the time. Didn't hurt much at all. Not remotely comparable to the fecking agony I was in after the original injury. I was able to walk immediately and actually ended running around for the rest of the game. My knee didn't feel right though, I was really worried it would give way again, so I took it fairly handy. Has swollen up overnight and I'm hobbling round today.
Obviously, will give my surgeon a shout when the swelling has settled and see what he thinks. Might need another MRI. Just curious to hear if a replaced ligament might be a lot less painful to rupture. It will probably have a lot less nerves in it, so I guess it's possible. Meanwhile, all I can do is cross my fingers and wait. Chances are my footballing days are over
When I did mine it was a bit painful but similar to what you are describing I actually played on. I've had much more painful injuries like muscle tears. It was only a when my knee kept giving out that I realised it was pretty serious. Best of luck with the scan hopefully nothing too serious.
So. Just wondering if anyone has any experience of re-rupturing the ACL that was operated on?
I'm 18 months post-op and been playing twice a week for the last few months (previously just weekly) My knee had got a bit achey and I was considering dropping out of Sunday's game but turned up anyway. I was changing direction when my knee gave way. Felt a bit like it hyper-extended, even though my leg was bent at the time. Didn't hurt much at all. Not remotely comparable to the fecking agony I was in after the original injury. I was able to walk immediately and actually ended running around for the rest of the game. My knee didn't feel right though, I was really worried it would give way again, so I took it fairly handy. Has swollen up overnight and I'm hobbling round today.
Obviously, will give my surgeon a shout when the swelling has settled and see what he thinks. Might need another MRI. Just curious to hear if a replaced ligament might be a lot less painful to rupture. It will probably have a lot less nerves in it, so I guess it's possible. Meanwhile, all I can do is cross my fingers and wait. Chances are my footballing days are over
ive had a few complaints as you described visit me.
Surprisingly, not all of them had a complete ruptured graft. Some presentations were clear as day on examination. Im talking about the ones in between; they:
-described pain as less severe than original
-felt relatively fine on the day of injury but progressively worsened 2 - 5 days later, where ROM decreased dramatically secondary to swelling.
The different outcomes were those who were able to continue with minimal swelling suffered stretching of their graft ligaments which destabilized their joints, but not to the degree where it would buckle going up the stairs for example, MRI was inconclusive in some and they required arthroscopy to clarify extent of injury.
Others worsened the injury by going back to whatever it was they were doing, and went from partially tearing to total rupture.
So .. as much as I wanna say it aint, it unfortunately could be your ACL, hopefully without additional meniscal injury.
Jeremy Maclin and Adrian Peterson in the NFL are two very strong examples of how far ACL treatment has come.
NFL star Adrian Peterson came back from ACL surgery to have an absolutely ridiculous season afterwards.
Thanks. That's encouraging. Didn't think the graft could stretch without rupturing but guess that's the best I can hope for. I'm assuming my meniscus got away with it because there was so little pain but feck knows really. All very speculative.
Your second last paragraph is the biggie really. Even if the graft is in one piece I reckon I'll be hanging the boots up. Really don't fancy popping my knee out whenever I jog up a flight of stairs. From here on in I'll stick to sitting on the sidelines and moaning.
Was that the first time it went? Or the second? The first time mine went I was cross-eyed with the pain. I am a massive coward though.
And one of the best seasons of all-time. That dude just isn't normal though (physically or mentally).
I have only had it once.
We'll find out soon enough. Very soon we will have one each in goalkeeping, midfield and attack.
Had mine reconstructed/replaced about 3 years ago, to be honest it took around 9 months before even beginning to trust it again but the mental scar still remains much stronger than anything physical. Quite happily burst around on a field but I can be reminded of it just getting out off the armchair and I think that's the part that never quite heals. Post op I've gained huge respect for athletes that overcome devastating injuries and go on to reach high levels again, its a phycological battle of trusting the surgeon and your own bodies ability to heal, thinking back how intensely painful and crippling the ACL injury actually is then the fear of it happening again is never far away.
So. Just wondering if anyone has any experience of re-rupturing the ACL that was operated on?
I'm 18 months post-op and been playing twice a week for the last few months (previously just weekly) My knee had got a bit achey and I was considering dropping out of Sunday's game but turned up anyway. I was changing direction when my knee gave way. Felt a bit like it hyper-extended, even though my leg was bent at the time. Didn't hurt much at all. Not remotely comparable to the fecking agony I was in after the original injury. I was able to walk immediately and actually ended running around for the rest of the game. My knee didn't feel right though, I was really worried it would give way again, so I took it fairly handy. Has swollen up overnight and I'm hobbling round today.
Obviously, will give my surgeon a shout when the swelling has settled and see what he thinks. Might need another MRI. Just curious to hear if a replaced ligament might be a lot less painful to rupture. It will probably have a lot less nerves in it, so I guess it's possible. Meanwhile, all I can do is cross my fingers and wait. Chances are my footballing days are over
Ah, sorry to hear that mate. Not being able to do something you love doing sucks massively.
It almost sounds like your knee briefly dislocated and then went back in. I've done this a few times to each knee and it always gave the exact same symptoms you're describing and always left me on crutches for about 6 weeks.
I'm sure you'll be able to play again at some level, but maybe playing once a week and using the rest of the time to stretch and strengthen with low impact activities - swimming, cycling - might be the way? Keep your chin up anyway mate.
The same year Philipp Lahm tore his ACL during his loan spell at Stuttgart and he became the best fullback in the game of football afterwards.
And a great CDM too. Outstanding player.
When you injured your ACL originally, was the cartilage in your knee affected at all?
I tore the ACL in my knee and also previously to that had to have all the lateral meniscus removed. I lasted about 12 months playing after recovery from the ACL tearing. The final thing that happened was that I tried to change direction and felt my knee 'shunt' a little forward. Didn't really hurt, but felt odd and unstable. Eventually went for a scan and a chunk of bone from my tibia had popped out due to the bones just grinding against each other for so long. The surgeon said if he saw me again after this he'd be replacing my entire knee. I didn't want that at 32, so had to give it up unfortunately. That was 6 years ago and I haven't played since - am still gutted about it !!!
Hopefully this hasn't happened to you......but best to get it checked out given the history if you can.
I tore the ACL in my knee and also previously to that had to have all the lateral meniscus removed. I lasted about 12 months playing after recovery from the ACL tearing. The final thing that happened was that I tried to change direction and felt my knee 'shunt' a little forward. Didn't really hurt, but felt odd and unstable. Eventually went for a scan and a chunk of bone from my tibia had popped out due to the bones just grinding against each other for so long. The surgeon said if he saw me again after this he'd be replacing my entire knee. I didn't want that at 32, so had to give it up unfortunately. That was 6 years ago and I haven't played since - am still gutted about it !!!
Hopefully this hasn't happened to you......but best to get it checked out given the history if you can.
Fecking hell. That sounds nasty. I tore up my meniscus a bit when I did the ACL but only needed a small bit of it trimmed. Nothing as dramatic as what happened to you.
I'm 10 years older than you were when you quit so am trying to be philosophical about it. I've a friend who is an orthopaedic surgeon (not the bloke he operated on) who reckons that anyone playing football in their mid-forties is just asking for trouble. So a retirement was inevitable soon enough. Above a certain age you should run in straight lines only!
I'm 10 years older than you were when you quit so am trying to be philosophical about it. I've a friend who is an orthopaedic surgeon (not the bloke he operated on) who reckons that anyone playing football in their mid-forties is just asking for trouble. So a retirement was inevitable soon enough. Above a certain age you should run in straight lines only!
Blind? That wasn't an injury to his ACL.
Yeh - I guess everyone's playing time is up at some point. Depending on how seriously you take it, it can leave a massive hole which needs to be filled with something other than lager
I was like a duck out of water on a Saturday for a good couple of years after having spent the previous 14 years with my whole week leading up to the game.......I do still play the occasional game of vets rugby (badly) without too many problems. I don't try to side-step anyone - just go in a straight line
Yeh - I guess everyone's playing time is up at some point. Depending on how seriously you take it, it can leave a massive hole which needs to be filled with something other than lager
I do still play the occasional game of vets rugby (badly) without too many problems. I don't try to side-step anyone - just go in a straight line
Ain't that the truth. Pathetic as it sounds what gets me through the week has always been playing and watching football (in that order) If I have to give up the playing bit and United have another season without mid-week games the working week is going to be unbearably long and I don't even want to think about the summer