Players are fecked & it seriously highlights our severe lack of depth.

Do wonder how the World Cup might impact us. Looking at guys who have had meaningful minutes, we actually have quite a few who I'd expect to start most of their games for their country. Varane (if fit), Shaw, Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, Maguire, Fred and Ronaldo.

A few others might end up playing significant time too depending on form and squad options with Dalot, Martinez, Antony, Rashford and Malacia being maybe one or two injuries away from starting for their respective countries.

From an attacking perspective, we really need Martial and Sancho to have a good break (be a surprise if either gets selected) and come back firing straight away.
 
Lee565 said:
No this is a poor excuse, Newcastle are flying and I would not exactly say they have some amazing first 11 and have to deal with missing some important players through suspension and injuries already this season. Good managers can deal with managing injuries and suspensions over a season, fergie was great at it, same with klopp, Guardiola etc..

If ten hag can only do well when he has his strongest 11 available then we have basically signed a cheque book manager like mourinho.
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Newcastle isn't playing in Europe, are they.
 
justsomebloke said:
Newcastle isn't playing in Europe, are they.
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Their squad depth is not as big as ours and their starting 11 is not as good as ours either and it's not like they haven't had injuries to important players either and our europa league group should have been a breeze even without needing to resort to fielding our strongest 11 even against sociedad who are a bang average Spanish stride that are struggling in their own league.
 
It's clear that there is some fatigue amongst the squad now, but that's not the only reason we lost yesterday. Garnacho, Ronaldo and an out of position Rashford, backed up by Donny, is about as bare bones as its going to get for us in attack.

Put them up against a fresh Villa side at home with a new manager to impress, and all the ingredients were there for a poor result.
 
Clearly should have rotated a little more in the Europa League. Fair enough that the result in the first game meant he couldn't take risks but that doesn't mean you have to go full strength. Giving a couple of players the night off against Omonia and Sheriff would have been fine, especially for the away games to save them travelling.
 
As bad as the glazers are it does feel like we let off out managers deficiencies post fergie too much with the idea that throwing 100's of millions and millions at every transfer window will solve everything even though we just gave ten hag a great amount of money to bring in players and top 4 should be the minimum especially when when liverpool, spurs and Chelsea are nowhere near as much of a threat as you would have thought of before the season started.

If we screw up a top 4 spot it will be as bad as what happened under under ole/ragnick and lvg when we threw away a gift to get top 4 when other teams around us at the time were all over the place.
 
Lee565 said:
Their squad depth is not as big as ours and their starting 11 is not as good as ours either and it's not like they haven't had injuries to important players either and our europa league group should have been a breeze even without needing to resort to fielding our strongest 11 even against sociedad who are a bang average Spanish stride that are struggling in their own league.
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They have had injuries, but that's different from fatigue.

We tried fielding a second string team in the EL once, and look how that went.
 
He's gotta use what he has. You think Unai Emery loved the depth he had on Sunday for his first Villa game. Still made more changes than United did.
 
Highlights Ten Hag's inability/desire to rotate.

Could have easily rotated the midfield with Fred or McT. Rested one of Bruno/Eriksen each game. Given the likes of Pellistri or Iqbal a chance (at least to come on for the last 20-30 minutes)...

There was no reason, especially against Omonia and Sheriff to play such a strong team... Even De Gea started all 6 games!
 
Robindinho said:
Highlights Ten Hag's inability/desire to rotate.

Could have easily rotated the midfield with Fred or McT. Rested one of Bruno/Eriksen each game. Given the likes of Pellistri or Iqbal a chance (at least to come on for the last 20-30 minutes)...

There was no reason, especially against Omonia and Sheriff to play such a strong team... Even De Gea started all 6 games!
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This isn’t his team yet. The players he signed all play when available. That tells you he doesn’t trust a lot of this squad. I hope it means we sell a lot of them if I’m honest. Most the players who were bought under previous managers need to go or need competition bought in. We need a team of mentality monsters and this lot ain’t it. (Except a obvious few)
 
Robindinho said:
Highlights Ten Hag's inability/desire to rotate.

Could have easily rotated the midfield with Fred or McT. Rested one of Bruno/Eriksen each game. Given the likes of Pellistri or Iqbal a chance (at least to come on for the last 20-30 minutes)...

There was no reason, especially against Omonia and Sheriff to play such a strong team... Even De Gea started all 6 games!
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Since he only started a second string crew once, which was in the first (and second-most difficult) game, you'd have to think that was the intention, but that he concluded after that first loss it was just too risky if we wanted to win the group. And, we actually won four of the remaining five games by only a very narrow margin.
 
Ten Hag appears to not trust some players, Fred and McTominay probably being the most obvious, and certainly both of those against premiership teams may find us struggling a little in midfield, but against Sherriff and Omonia we could have started both players.
From what I saw of yesterday's match Martinez in particular looked jaded, and very often this is more a mental tiredness than physical, with Casemiro, and Eriksen and even De Gea looking slightly under par, we couldn't control the game against a highly motivated Villa side.
I did think some players would suffer from muscle injuries with playing so many games, but there are still a couple of games to go, and once players get physically tired, injuries can happen, Shaw being the most obvious possibility.
I'm hoping that Ten Hag will learn that overplaying players will have an adverse effect on their abilities, and it may be prudent to give fringe players like Iqbal, Shoretire, Pellestri, Savage, McNeill etc some minutes to build for the future.
 
I think this is more of a fitness issue, there are holes in the team and weaker players but I feel it’s much more about us trying to catch up after 5 years (Mou/Ole) of quite passive football with lots of talk about pressing but very little proof. You don’t just go from being a team who rarely pressed in a cohesive manner to being a team who can press for a whole season with a single pre season. Most other teams will be ahead of us on fitness and it does show.
 
Irrespective of squad depth the owners have indicated we are unlikely to spend in January and will have a reduced budget in the summer.

We are the run by the worst owners in the league. Not feckin chance much changes until these leeches are out and theres as much chance of that as there is of Mr Knighton coming in and buying us out!
 
Borys said:
ETH needs to trust our 2nd tier. Playing Casemiro - Eriksen every 4 days is not going to work. We need to mix it up a bit, Eriksen with McTominay worked well in a few games, and Casemiro Fred is the obvious choice. We will lose some quality on the ball, but what's good in having great ball players in the middle of the park if they can't run.

On forwards I have no answer.
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Its better to bite the bullet Fred and Elanga should have started vs villa and rested Ronaldo and vdb/Eriksen . The same players he is not resting are all starters for their national teams they are gonna come back knackered from the world cul. Only Dalot and Martinez aren't clear starters but with all these injuries you never know.
 
DickDastardly said:
You wanna hear some good news?

Good thing the WC is coming.

95% of our team is so shit that most of them wont play a single minute in the world cup
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Problem is Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno all start for both club and Country. EtH seems to not trust anyone in midfield besides vdb somehow.
 
Rightnr said:
It's a bad schedule but EtH should take some flack as well. Malacia should have started today or in the Sociedad game in place for Dalot.
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He is being given a huge pass. He has no excuse for not rotating the midfield. Fred and mctominay have been coming on during our weird subs where the entire team looks disjointed and have looked bad. The last time Fred started he looked good, his been a sub since can't even remember the last time mctominay started. Ronaldo starting his 4th game in a row was criminal. Atleast start Elanga and bring him on Ronaldo in the 2nd half if anything.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Why do you think that happened, soon after we were heavily linked with Arnautovic and Rabiot?
The CEO has said we won’t have Monday next year and we’re in the red in accounts.
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Doesn't matter what the reason was for it. But 200m was spent and crying foul and saying the owners are not backing the manager by not spending more in Jan sounds spoilt to me.
 
Polar said:
Which United manager have had his team since SAF?

Closest you get is maybe LVG?
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Which is why we have to do a arteta with ETH and give him genuine time, despite the bumps in the road and all the outside noise. we got to stick with him and trust the process.

one thing we cannot do is give the manager 250million to buy his players, sack him, get a totally different manager with totally different style and ideas then sack him and have to start over.. again. That’s what we have done so far and wonder why nothing has worked.

We got to stick with him to the point where he actually has his own 22. His own style, identity. If it means selling every single player not bought by him then so be it
 
ForeverRed1 said:
Which is why we have to do a arteta with ETH and give him genuine time, despite the bumps in the road and all the outside noise. we got to stick with him and trust the process.

one thing we cannot do is give the manager 250million to buy his players, sack him, get a totally different manager with totally different style and ideas then sack him and have to start over.. again. That’s what we have done so far and wonder why nothing has worked.

We got to stick with him to the point where he actually has his own 22. His own style, identity. If it means selling every single player not bought by him then so be it
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The one thing Rangnick was right on is that people at Manchester United have to pretending this is a new 5-year project after every setback season to become competitive again. United have a lot of very good players and are competitive in the transfer market financially, despite the Glazers. We can, and we do, spend astronomical sums of money on signing players and paying them wages.

The club has to move away from lurching from one manager to another, indulging in bullshit that we can’t hope to compete until a point far in advance of a manager’s natural lifecycle, and recruit players and staff who can build on what already exists.

Hopefully ETH is the right manager, but if we eventually decide there is someone better for the role, that manager should be iterating on what ETH had been doing previously, in line with United’s longer term recruitment and development strategies, rather than us tearing it all up and saying that we can’t judge the next manager until he has another 22 players.

Over time there will be a large turnover of playing staff, but manager’s cannot be unaccountable until they have endorsed the signing or adoption of every single person in their squad.
 
It feels that EtH wants a stable XI so that he can implement his style of play, that is why he insists on the likes of Dalot, Shaw, Malacia, Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, Antony & Rashford to start every game if they are fit, Martial's absence throughout this season didn't help (if Martial was fit, then maybe someone like Sancho can be alternated between RW & LW to rest Antony, Rashford & Martial).

It is also clear since Casemiro started impressing, he no longer trusts McTominay & Fred, for example, against Sheriff at OT, McFred should've started and be sufficient to handle Sheriff, but EtH played Casemiro & Eriksen.
 
Lack of rotation and players being overplayed is is basically deja vu to the Ole days

Partly down to squad weaknesses but also new managers trying to get a rhythm going with their system which is difficult when you chop and change

In hindsight he should have rotated more in Europa as we came 2nd anyway but only by the smallest of margins
 
ForeverRed1 said:
Which is why we have to do a arteta with ETH and give him genuine time, despite the bumps in the road and all the outside noise. we got to stick with him and trust the process.

one thing we cannot do is give the manager 250million to buy his players, sack him, get a totally different manager with totally different style and ideas then sack him and have to start over.. again. That’s what we have done so far and wonder why nothing has worked.

We got to stick with him to the point where he actually has his own 22. His own style, identity. If it means selling every single player not bought by him then so be it
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Agree 100%

Arteta seems to have carte blanche at Arsenal. His squadbuilding is impressive. He knows which players he wants and needs. Arteta and his «backoffice» seem to have very good scouting- (overview of the marker) and transfer system, including “red flag system”. They buy players with talent (upside) or a lot of hunger for development and success, and avoid players who lack professionalism, loyalty, team skills or orherwise doesn’t fit into the squad or squadbuilding. Seems like Arteta, Pep and Klopp have something in common when it comes to squadbuilding:)

I’m not surprised if City, Pool or Arsenal’s system would’ve started to blink red if Bruno was mentioned or Casemiro Ronaldo and Varane were mentioned at the same time.
 
TMDaines said:
United have a lot of very good players and are competitive in the transfer market financially,
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Don’t disagree with that, but unfortunately it’s also important to have the right mix of players (skills and personality); team dynamic.

I don’t think any manager is able to make United a great team with the existing squad. Great team dynamic isn’t something just to be created from whatever material. It’s much more about fine tuning (right players in/out) than good players only.
 
Polar said:
Don’t disagree with that, but unfortunately it’s also important to have the right mix of players (skills and personality); team dynamic.

I don’t think any manager is able to make United a great team with the existing squad. Great team dynamic isn’t something just to be created from whatever material. It’s much more about fine tuning (right players in/out) than good players only.
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And I don't disagree with that either.
 
Arsenal have used one more player in the league than EtH so far this season, yet are flying and don't really look gassed.
City and Spurs have used one less, played the same amount of games and are also ahead of us in the league.

Our squad is as good as Arsenal's, so to use an excuse that they are tired is petty and doesn't really hold weight when looking at where other teams are in comparison.
 
Agree on the rotating issues. Every manager we have now feels the pressure of winning everything so they have to go full retard for every bloody game.
Playing some youngsters rarely seems to harm us that much iirc? My memory is shit but i would guess we have had more good than bad experiences over the years playing a younger team.

We have our most promising kids out on loan now, bar Garnacho, so there isn´t much to work with at the moment, but players like Iqbal and Shoretire could get a few minutes perhaps.
I don´t really rate McNeill but i honestly don´t think he could add less to the team than Ronaldo atm as striker. Wouldn´t mind to see him get some minutes either.
 
Polar said:
Agree 100%

Arteta seems to have carte blanche at Arsenal. His squadbuilding is impressive. He knows which players he wants and needs. Arteta and his «backoffice» seem to have very good scouting- (overview of the marker) and transfer system, including “red flag system”. They buy players with talent (upside) or a lot of hunger for development and success, and avoid players who lack professionalism, loyalty, team skills or orherwise doesn’t fit into the squad or squadbuilding. Seems like Arteta, Pep and Klopp have something in common when it comes to squadbuilding:)

I’m not surprised if City, Pool or Arsenal’s system would’ve started to blink red if Bruno was mentioned or Casemiro Ronaldo and Varane were mentioned at the same time.
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I hope the board is gonna give ETH time cause sure as hell many fans are not giving him the same it seems.
 
Champ said:
Arsenal have used one more player in the league than EtH so far this season, yet are flying and don't really look gassed.
City and Spurs have used one less, played the same amount of games and are also ahead of us in the league.

Our squad is as good as Arsenal's, so to use an excuse that they are tired is petty and doesn't really hold weight when looking at where other teams are in comparison.
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What about the Europa league?

And you cant really compare United and City squads, especially depth wise..
 
Champ said:
Arsenal have used one more player in the league than EtH so far this season, yet are flying and don't really look gassed.
City and Spurs have used one less, played the same amount of games and are also ahead of us in the league.

Our squad is as good as Arsenal's, so to use an excuse that they are tired is petty and doesn't really hold weight when looking at where other teams are in comparison.
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It is interesting and almost unbelievable that a squad that is the 2nd most expensive in the world (after City) is somehow already looking gassed or light at this stage of the season.

Arteta was asked a few weeks ago before one of our EL games if he was worried about overplaying players (I think Saka specifically) and causing injuries. His response was interesting and the opposite of how us fans often think. He said if you want to be a top player/team, you have to be able to play 2-3 games a week and compete on all fronts. Injuries (and fatigue) are part of the game and cannot really be avoided.
 
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Real Name said:
What about the Europa league?

And you cant really compare United and City squads, especially depth wise..
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Not sure about this. After City, your squad was the most expensive in the world to assemble. United and City are the only two squads that cost over 1 billion euros. It seems a comparison would absolutely be fair.
 
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