Player rumblings against Fergie

red_de_pologne said:
You could argue that LVG did very well with dutch NT, and Jose had success with Roma (relevant to the club's size), then you have Moyes who is doing pretty well for West Ham
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Those are strong reaches the answer is no. No manager since leaving the club has gone on to success at other clubs in anyway that is measurable to what is deemed successful at United. It goes to show that the level of management these coaches have conveyed is not at the criteria required to challenge or even to be in and around the top four. It's like saying Liverpool made a mistake releasing Brendan Rodgers because he won the league with Celtic, that's why United haven't made a bad decision sacking the former managers for poor performance, no one has proved themselves otherwise that with time they would have guarantee a form of success.

So when fans are consistently peddling this nonsense narrative that the club can't keep doing the same thing, give Jose or Ole an extra 3 years and see if it would have made any difference.

Those who are comparing Erik's situation now with that of Sir Alex are using fallacious reasoning to come to a consensus. The size of United will not permit the likes of a situation that Arsenal experienced with Arteta (especially with the Glazers projection of the club's value appreciating by 2027). The only trajectory any manager who's to be successful here should follow is Klopp as his development with Liverpool is the most reminiscent of doing two things, providing incremental improvements that is relative to the club's size and earning credibility as the manager, not having it given to him with false pretences of blind hope. Erik has built himself some credibility but the ounas is on him to deliver which he's failing to do, so he's not building on the success of his former season as other successful managers have done.

Has United hired any coach or manager that is the level of Klopp / Guardiola ? The answer quite clearly is no. That is the criteria of manager that is going to be successful here and it's not in identifying what they've won because results are driven by actions and the actions of these managers is in their ability to coach the team. The headline that has befallen every manager at this club is that the team lack identity because all in all their ability to coach has been poor at the highest level.
 
Red_toad said:
United didn't have shite hawks like Goldbridge etc peddling shite on social media. Fergie took out Whiteside, McGrath and a few others for their drinking culture, so pretty sure he'd have made himself unpopular in the dressing room. But he came out the other side with authority and anyone he signed knew they'd lose. He was ruthless when he needed to be, as should all managers be.
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Was easier for Fergie to move on the likes of Whiteside and McGrath too. Problem Ten Hag has is the big massive contracts some of these lads have makes it very hard to get them out the door.
 
The most notable one was the mad week 13 years ago when Rooney wanted to leave, and it was all resolved after that once everyone in the football world thought Rooney was entitled and stupid.
 
Still ill said:
Please. I don't think you need to get insulted on Fergie's behalf. I'd give one of my testicles to seehow most of you guys would have reacted to us slipping 7 places to 11th in the table in his first year in charge. Never mind your reaction to us plummeting to 12th 3rd season in. Followed by 13th??!!! All this pious shit in relation to Fergie makes me want to kick people. Like we all knew it was coming. Such shite. He would have been massacred on here if it was nowadays. And I love the man. Obviously.
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Are you sure? It's not like we were winning titles before him. We were over twenty years and counting from the Busby days and had been relegated since we last won the league.

The point stands though he didn't suddenly turn good because of time.
 
United always generated the most coverage, but these days there's so much toxic social media and journalists making up, or pouncing on every little rumour they can find.
With social media allowing a "journalist" to instantly reveal a "story" at any time they want, there's just no getting away from it.
 
Chairman Steve said:
The most notable one was the mad week 13 years ago when Rooney wanted to leave, and it was all resolved after that once everyone in the football world thought Rooney was entitled and stupid.
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That was an amazing bit of breaking news. The boss looking solemn, playing it just right, putting all the heat on Rooney, meaning he had to make a withering come down and pretend he'd never wanted to leave.
Then Fergie always remembered it and cued Moyes up with an out to get rid, but instead he whopped him on a new huge long term deal!
 
Sandikan said:
That was an amazing bit of breaking news. The boss looking solemn, playing it just right, putting all the heat on Rooney, meaning he had to make a withering come down and pretend he'd never wanted to leave.
Then Fergie always remembered it and cued Moyes up with an out to get rid, but instead he whopped him on a new huge long term deal!
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Even Ian Holloway said an emotional little piece about it on the telly. Wonder if Fergie put him up to it?
 
Moriarty said:
Even Ian Holloway said an emotional little piece about it on the telly. Wonder if Fergie put him up to it?
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There's so many things you'd love to know the real truth to. Maybe we should have a new thread if anyone is interested.

Stuff like
  1. What really went on with the Bebe signing. Was that really a bribe to get another signing in?
  2. How much did we know about Stam's future drug test failure. It seemed utterly unthinkable to sell him when he'd been one of the best ever prem defenders, and then replace him with a mid 30s, immobile Blanc
  3. All that "no value in the market" stuff. Did Fergie even remotely believe that, or just a Glazer defence?
 
red_de_pologne said:
F97PGvnW8AACFP7
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That’s great. :lol:

“United will never win anything while he’s the manager.”

Well done Brian Marriott of Brooklands Avenue in Cambridge. Epicly bad hot take. Are you on The Caf?
 
crossy1686 said:
What parallels are there between the squad Fergie inherited and the one Ten Hag has with 12 of his own players in it?
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In that newspaper article alone it even says "Fergie spent £2million on players. Yet the team now is even worse"

Does that not ring even SLIGHTLY familiar?
 
I would agree its possible for ETH to get more out of this team, but at the same time when i see his transfers, how he sets up the team, the subs. :rolleyes:
Im not a believer atm.
Feel free to quote me on this later if im wrong.
 
I do feel it was a low bar for letter of the week. What were the other letters like?
 
Chairman Steve said:
The most notable one was the mad week 13 years ago when Rooney wanted to leave, and it was all resolved after that once everyone in the football world thought Rooney was entitled and stupid.
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I'm not old enough to know of the early Ferguson days but the time I do remember of him, players would either be put in their place or out of the door at the first hint of disharmony.

Beckham, Stam, Ruud, Tevez, Keane...not exactly small names. I think Rooney and Ronaldo were the only two who dared to go grumbling to the media, which is perhaps a sign of the changing culture of footballers, but even then both were publicly put in their place and even Ronaldo was allowed to leave before he could start becoming too disgruntled.

Can you imagine the club letting a manager turf out a player with the commercial power of Beckham now?
 
Adebisi's Hat said:
Fair enough, did supporters have big faith in the owners at that time though ?
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I never missed a home game from Tommy Doc era right through to Fergies reign.

The supporters hated the owners, the anti Edwards chants rang out almost as much as The Anti Glazers chants now. The only difference is social media was still 30 years in the future so organised protests were much harder to organise.
 
el3mel said:
Oh look, the Ferguson excuse. How novel. I have only seen it 1000 times during the previous 11 years. Managers perform like shit : Give him time as Fergie needed 5 years to become good.
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whilst you can post sarcastically you offer no solution. Look also to klopp and Artetta, both taken years to get Liverpool and Arsenal going. Both could easily have been sacked if the voices of the impatient we demand instant success minority were heeded.
 
I think it's more or less meaningless as a comparison.

Even if there were "rumblings" against Fergie, it's a different era. The people are completely different characters to now, brought up in a different way and different way of thinking. What placated them might not placate the current bunch, and the way of handling them would not be the same either.

There's also a completely different dynamic in football with agents, players as brands, the financial landscape and social media and how information comes out. It means this lack of discipline has a lot of different opportunities to manifest which makes it much harder for managers to keep a lid on things. It's not just a case of sending a spy around town to follow a player.

Ultimately it comes down to doing well. In current football that's where it starts and ends. When players see that you are successful, everything is rosey. There is sight of that instant fix, quick success and a heavy dose of praise as opposed to criticism which they don't handle well.
 
RedIan said:
whilst you can post sarcastically you offer no solution. Look also to klopp and Artetta, both taken years to get Liverpool and Arsenal going. Both could easily have been sacked if the voices of the impatient we demand instant success minority were heeded.
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Years ? Klopp reached a CL final in his 2nd full year in charge and after 2 summer markets. Ten Hag after two summer markers is struggling to post the group.

Keep on dreaming we'll get a new Ferguson.
 
Searched for a recent Ferguson thread, slightly off topic but I'll post this in here.


November 6th 37 years ago, Alex Ferguson became the Manchester United manager:

Alex Ferguson’s most used 11 by appearances (4-4-2): Stats thanks to Statman Dave.

GK - Peter Schmeichel (398 games)
RB - Gary Neville (602 games)
CB - Rio Ferdinand (432 games)
CB - Gary Pallister (416 games)
LB - Denis Irwin (516 games)
RM - David Beckham (394 games)
CM - Paul Scholes (716 games)
CM - Roy Keane (478 games)
LM - Ryan Giggs (941 games)
ST - Brian McClair (441 games)
ST - Wayne Rooney (402 games)

Each and every one of them had pure leadership qualities and worked their socks off for the team.

Players with the most assists under Alex Ferguson:

Ryan Giggs - 256 assists
David Beckham - 120 assists
Wayne Rooney - 103 assists
Paul Scholes - 81 assists
Nani - 71 assists

Players with the most goals under Alex Ferguson:

Wayne Rooney - 197 goals
Ryan Giggs - 168 goals
Paul Scholes - 155 goals
Ruud van Nistelrooy - 150 goals
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - 126 goals
 
Adebisi's Hat said:
its amazing how the quip 'nothing is new under the sun' is so true. This letter and quote could 100% be applier to todays situation.
Dzięki for this bro.
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It's bizarre. It's almost word for word the same. Just add two zeros to the number and swap the names and it fits perfectly.
 
TomSkalle said:
I would agree its possible for ETH to get more out of this team, but at the same time when i see his transfers, how he sets up the team, the subs. :rolleyes:
Im not a believer atm.
Feel free to quote me on this later if im wrong.
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This. Certain things require time, particularly when you take into account that the club has been stagnant for 10+ years. But, his transfer policy and certain decisions do not suggest that he will eventually succeed.
 
Adebisi's Hat said:
My take is to stick with ETH and (alleged) rumblings from players just make me more firm on this.

This got me thinking though and have a couple of questions for those around during the late 80s. Did with the horrible results at that time and with all the 'Tra Fergie ' stuff, did any of the players ever come out against Fergie or were there even media rumours of such at the time? Also at 3 to 4 years into the Fergie era did it feel like he was a dead man walking or was there a confidence among at least some fans that he would turn it around ?
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I am old enough to remember those days even if I wasn't that old back then. The one game I remember when the majority of United-fans turned against Fergie was the Palace-game at home in the 89/90 season. After destroying Arsenal at home, Webb got injured for England a few weeks later and United lost 4 of the next 6 games. We then suffered a mini-revival with 4 wins in 5 before starting that awful run where we didnt win a league-game for 2 months. The third game was Palace at home - we were 1-0 up at half-time after destroying them - it could have been 5 but Nigel Martyn making his debut for Palace was brilliant. And then we collapsed in the second half and Palace turned it around - I still think that is the last game where we lost a game at home after being ahead at half-time. (but I could be wrong)

Something happened after that game - and a lot of fans turned against Ferguson, and I think a lot expected him to go in the next 2 months. But the cup-run, the emergence of Robins, the return of Webb from injury and a greatly improved form in the last 2 months of the season - at least for me turned it around. And when the 90/91-season started I was quite optimistic for the future.
 
GazTheLegend said:
In that newspaper article alone it even says "Fergie spent £2million on players. Yet the team now is even worse"

Does that not ring even SLIGHTLY familiar?
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Fergie brought in tons of players early on, and most of them were pretty poor.

Anderson: past it. Donaghy: no better than Hogg who he’d fallen out with. Webb: a crock. Leighton: started out well but declined massively. Hughes: took ages to come good. Wallace: degenerative condition. Milne: shit. Bruce: initially looked like a downgrade on McGrath.

Only McClair was genuinely transformational. And he became less effective after Hughes returned.
 
For me the lead article is fully applicable. Of course no situation the same but the premise is. People making extreme declarations when time can prove them impatient and lacking foresight.

There does come a time when the plug has to be pulled and 1.5 years into a 4 year job is reactionary for me. Especially as I’ve said before when progress had been made last season comparatively to previous. The circumstances this season have been almost unprecedented for a top club, this has to be considered too.

For those that are comparing Ten’s tenure to others are being unfair. It’s like he is paying for the failures of others and people saying get rid in case he is a failure. Once he has close to his first 11 regularly, then I’ll judge him more critically.
 
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