BBC News - Dozens killed as passenger plane crashes in Kazakhstan
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjwl1e6895qo
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjwl1e6895qo
Plane crash in Kazakhstan
- Thread starter Ajr
- Start date
Last edited by a moderator:
Sooo...aviation experts, what are your first thoughts?
He was practically flying sideways at one point, I’m surprised that anyone survived
When did posting horrific videos of vulnerable victims become so normalised it happens on a football forum without question? I swear just 5 years ago people posting videos like that would be given a warning?
Agreed. There's no need. We can imagine a plane crash, we don't need to actually see it.
I know. I would be looking at any Embraer planes as an option for any 737 Max now.
I read potentially loss of hydraulics somehow but I am not an expert
That’s grim and I don’t want to see videos but reading BBC story and fact that wheels down, I’d guess some form of malfunction as trying an emergency landing.
Obviously unconfirmed, but was reading on Reddit that the fuselage had what looked like bullet holes in it. People suggesting Russia shot it down as they have anti aircraft tech in that region plus the radar was jammed.
Again. Saw this on reddit with sources/videos from Twitter.
Again. Saw this on reddit with sources/videos from Twitter.
Absolutely agree. Spoiler stuff lile that if you really have to post it. Lots of people reading the CE don't want to see that.
If the images are authentic, there is some suspicious looking damage that I wouldn’t think on first glance would’ve been caused by rocks/debris upon impact to the ground.
I cannot believe you thought posting this unspoilered was okay.
Not bullet holes - fragmentation damage. The scattering is too random and the holes way too small to have been caused by any guns in use in modern aircraft or anti-aircraft guns. The holes also look to be completely in the wrong axis as to the crash direction to be impact fragmentation, and it sure as hell isn't bird damage.
What the damage picture is in line with is a proximity detonation of an anti-air missile, a good amount of which use ball bearings or other sorts of fragmentation arranged around the explosive charge to hit the target with.
Here's some good quality closeup footage of the damage in the tail section:
The strong damage scattered across the tail section is also in line with the immediatly obvious loss of vertical control surface loss that one can see in the videos, and the probable entire loss of the hydraulics. The aircraft appears to be in a phugoid, only able to control its flight attitude using engine thrust, which explains the rollercoaster-like up and down movement and speed oscillations one can observe in its final hour of flight:
Further corroborating an attack theory is the fact that the aircraft appeared to be completely fine until it was at 9000 feet approaching Grozny, and after the problems started the pilots decided to not land the closest airports (which would have been in Grozny or a at least Russia) but flew all the way across the Caspian Sea to Kazakhstan, which is very anomalous in an emergency situation and could have been caused by the pilots being aware that they were shot at and feared that Russia was not a safe place to land. Diverting to such a far-away airport instead of to a more nearby Russian airport is also not consistent with the initial Russian report of a diversion due to fog, and the airport METAR for Grozny lists the visibility as over three kilometers during the entire time in question with no mention of fog.
Overall there is very strong indication that Russia once again has shot down an airliner.
The pilots have done an amazing job to keep the aircraft flying for as long as they did with the damage they have seemed to have suffered, and the fact that 32 people survived that crash according to the last report I have heard is both a miracle and testament to the solid build of the E190.
Lot of people moaning about seeing air crash videos. What did they expect when opening a thread about an aircraft crashing? Seems bizarre to begin pearl clutching about it after you open the thread, in a world as media-saturated as this one there's more likely to be a video than not these days.
Spoilering and/or giving notice of violence/injury/death in posted media is common courtesy across most forums.
Same as not spoiling shows/movies/video games without notice and hiding said spoiler.
Some rumouring that it was accidentally shot down.
Obviously not a video of it. Just a link to an article about it is fine.
It's perfectly reasonable to not expect to see a video of it. Ironic you find it bizarre. It really is.
Not bullet holes - fragmentation damage. The scattering is too random and the holes way too small to have been caused by any guns in use in modern aircraft or anti-aircraft guns. The holes also look to be completely in the wrong axis as to the crash direction to be impact fragmentation, and it sure as hell isn't bird damage.
What the damage picture is in line with is a proximity detonation of an anti-air missile, a good amount of which use ball bearings or other sorts of fragmentation arranged around the explosive charge to hit the target with.
Here's some good quality closeup footage of the damage in the tail section:
The strong damage scattered across the tail section is also in line with the immediatly obvious loss of vertical control surface loss that one can see in the videos, and the probable entire loss of the hydraulics. The aircraft appears to be in a phugoid, only able to control its flight attitude using engine thrust, which explains the rollercoaster-like up and down movement and speed oscillations one can observe in its final hour of flight:
Further corroborating an attack theory is the fact that the aircraft appeared to be completely fine until it was at 9000 feet approaching Grozny, and after the problems started the pilots decided to not land the closest airports (which would have been in Grozny or a at least Russia) but flew all the way across the Caspian Sea to Kazakhstan, which is very anomalous in an emergency situation and could have been caused by the pilots being aware that they were shot at and feared that Russia was not a safe place to land. Diverting to such a far-away airport instead of to a more nearby Russian airport is also not consistent with the initial Russian report of a diversion due to fog, and the airport METAR for Grozny lists the visibility as over three kilometers during the entire time in question with no mention of fog.
Overall there is very strong indication that Russia once again has shot down an airliner.
The pilots have done an amazing job to keep the aircraft flying for as long as they did with the damage they have seemed to have suffered, and the fact that 32 people survived that crash according to the last report I have heard is both a miracle and testament to the solid build of the E190.
Wouldn’t this be backed up pretty quickly though? (Witness reports, pilot communications, cockpit audio)
I agree witg all this. But seriously the option of not clickling at the video is there. And the option of stopping watching the video ay any point knowing the topic, too. I did that
I agree with having to spoilering but i dont understand the drama either
It's not like you don't know what the video is going to be though? Just don't click play if you don't want to see it ?
Calling it 'pearl clutching' like it's some kind of moral panic not to want to see unspoilered/uncensored photos and videos from a disaster is absurd. What did they expect? Maybe discussion, in the discussion forum? Some news? Up to date information?
The point about just not clicking the video is fair, but it's best just to put it in a spoiler anyway, given the poster can't control the thumbnail. Sometimes the video can autoplay as well, but that's more a problem with Reddit embeds.
Your reaction is case in point that this has become normalised. As I said in my original post, there was a time when videos showing people suffering from shock and severe injuries were at a minimum spoilered and at best advised not to be posted in respect to those in the video.
It’s a topic for another thread and maybe I’m just becoming a grumpy middle aged dad but I think the amount people have become desensitised to this sort of content is a sad indictment on the shape of the internet today.
I saw the video, knew exactly what it was going to be about and chose not to press play because I don’t want to spend my Christmas Day watching footage of plane crash survivors. That option was there for everyone.
I don’t get why anyone would seek out footage like that, never mind share it. But choosing to click on it is also a strange choice IMO. Especially if you’re likely to take offence at that sort of content.
I don’t get why anyone would seek out footage like that, never mind share it. But choosing to click on it is also a strange choice IMO. Especially if you’re likely to take offence at that sort of content.
That will be seen in the coming days and weeks. There are some unconfirmed mentions of survivors stating that was one or several explosions outside the aircraft and that the cabin was penetrated in multiple spots, hitting the interior and passengers. There are also reports of SAM activity around Grozny at the time in question, defending against Ukrainian fixed-wing drones in the area.
We can only hope that the investigations will be carried out impartially without any... political interference.
Same. I don't like watching footage like that about anything so no way will I click on it.
I understand people are different though but it's not for me.
There are survivors so that's good.
Seems like those pilots saved a good number of lives there
Even more remarkable so many survived when you see the flames on impact.
There already are some testaments — like a surviving passenger apparently telling to RT this:
Now this is RT we're talking about and it's hard to find a less reliable media... although they're more vile than unprofessional (as in they more often lie deliberately and not accidentally) and in this case this information works against their overall narrative.
Edit: and Grozny was hit by Ukrainian drones that day so it's entirely possible that the plane was hit by their own air defense missiles*... from my completely amateur point of view.
* not directly I mean. By its shrapnel.
Last edited:
Most of the survivors sat at the back of the plane with its tail breaking off on impact. It looks like the fire mostly happened at the front. It's still a miracle though.
I consider myself quite sensitive about real life gore but watched the video anyway out of morbid curiosity. Seeing the aftermath of a plane crash just after it happened is rare unless you go looking for it. I thought it was reassuring so see so many survivors after a crash like that. Seeing the initial video I’d have believed there would be no survivors at all.
We shouldn't even need to see the tweets. That's a basic thing, it's a football forum for feck sake.
The “it’s a football forum” argument makes no sense in the context of the CE forum. And I agree nobody needs to see those tweets. I’m glad I didn’t.
Honestly I think after seeing 9/11 live at (insert early but still very much conscious age here) and thereafter being on the internet growing up, this stuff is just very normalised. That may be a bad thing, and perhaps it'd be better to not have seen this stuff, but I and squillions of others have and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.
Tragedy is out there, whether people want to see it or not. Folks have a choice whether to press play.
I can't believe redcafe forced me to watch a plane crash
christmas ruined
christmas ruined
Flying same airspace on Saturday - does give you pause
Cutting stuff.
A discussion of an accident is different to showing video footage. The vast majority of people using the caf are thoughtful enough to use spoiler tags when posting anything that contains some sort of tragedy.
Your line about "folks have a choice whether to press play" is simply you transferring the responsibility of your lack of thinking and forethought onto others.
You are quite simply in the wrong. Dont try and weasel out of that. Do better