Pity we didn't have the current John O'Shea cause even today he'd still get the nod over Jones.
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Pity we didn't have the current John O'Shea cause even today he'd still get the nod over Jones.
If LVG plays him ahead of Mike I'll go livid
Been saying this for a while. He will never become a top defender. How long do we give the guy? to give him a new deal was crazy IMO.
I thought he'd be an incredible defender when we first bought him, he had so much potential it seemed.
He's still young so there's still time for him to improve but it doesn't look good at the minute. Madness to be playing Jones before Smalling though, why is Van Gaal doing it?
He's still young so there's still time for him to improve but it doesn't look good at the minute. Madness to be playing Jones before Smalling though, why is Van Gaal doing it?
Very poor game for him against PSG. Got out muscled easy by Matuidi which resulted the first goal and was unaware of his surrounding which presented Ibra with an easy tap in for the second. Just not good enough... first goal Jones poor positioning as he was on the wrong side of Matuidi which resulted him chasing and then just had no chance shrugging him off the ball, and the second goal... Jones just stopped running as the ball was put in and assumed keeper would get there but was unaware of his surroundings as Ibra came in between defenders and tapped it in. Watch the highlights and you see Jones didnt look around once when he was inside his own box and as the ball was put in, just immediately stopped.
Mostly the cause of these silly goals is a result of poor leadership from the backline. 0 commanding player in that defense that game. Need a leader in that defense. Jones isnt it as he cant sort himself out, so how can you expect him to do the same with that backline. I got high hopes for Smalling, but Jones just looks to be a squad player. Like another O'Shea. I'm not condemning him completely considering he has signed a new contract and he's only 23, but at this moment with chances and experiences he has had. I'd expect better.
Mostly the cause of these silly goals is a result of poor leadership from the backline. 0 commanding player in that defense that game. Need a leader in that defense. Jones isnt it as he cant sort himself out, so how can you expect him to do the same with that backline. I got high hopes for Smalling, but Jones just looks to be a squad player. Like another O'Shea. I'm not condemning him completely considering he has signed a new contract and he's only 23, but at this moment with chances and experiences he has had. I'd expect better.
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It's really funny if you look at him for the second goal, he absolutely had no idea where Ibrahimovic was, and he was the only player he could mark.
It wasn't entirely his fault IMO, but it just goes to show how unaware he always his in the defence, he was surprised that Ibrahimovic came behind him. Someone argued the other day that he is very intelligent, and yet he does this similar stuff all the time.
IMO, it's really worrying if van Gaal sees him as starter.
It wasn't entirely his fault IMO, but it just goes to show how unaware he always his in the defence, he was surprised that Ibrahimovic came behind him. Someone argued the other day that he is very intelligent, and yet he does this similar stuff all the time.
IMO, it's really worrying if van Gaal sees him as starter.
I haven't watched the game yet but it sounds like the usual complaints about him being rash and out of position. Smalling/Jones is not strong enough in my opinion, though we might be better at the back if van Gaal actually played our best centre back.
LVG did say he hasnt decided on RCB, maybe this game was the decider, LVG sensed Jones shouldnt be a starter.
Was quite average against PSG, especially shocking for Zlatan's goal I thought. Doesn't really change my mind either way, for me Smalling has been much better for a while now.
It's always been the case for me. They're both extremely athletic defenders but Smalling's just bigger, stronger, quicker and generally more athletic in every sense. That's just ignoring their defensive instincts/decision making where Smalling wins hands down.
Looks like he is going to be jumped on for every mistake this season, this seasons scapegoat has been found it seems, and before a ball has even been kicked. New record?
It's mainly this for me, Smalling really looks like a natural defender and has the right instincts in the position. Jones much less so, though his athletic qualities will enable him to have some very good performances at times.
Well, looks like that he'll undeservedly become starter ahead our best defender last year so if he doesn't deliver it's expected.
Well it's not like he has been fantastic every game up until now is it? He has been up and down like a Yo-Yo for 18 months now with little to no progression. Isn't good enough for a club challenging for the league \ CL.
Why's it expected? Players make mistakes, why should he he over criticised for an error when Smalling gets away Scott free.
As has Smalling, however you wouldn't think so by the posts in here.
I think it's more of a case that Smalling has been better out of the 2, although he seems much higher rated on here then he should be, my friends who support other teams laugh at the fact that Jones \ Smalling are our options. I'm still unconvinced by the pair of them to be honest, although if I had to keep one it would be Smalling.
Didn't watch the game, but judging by the comments, he wasn't great. I will have to watch the goals myself though, beacuse I know Jones is one of the main scapegoats on the Caf.
Overall, I do think he's had a good pre season, though, and we shouldn't make out that he hasn't.
Overall, I do think he's had a good pre season, though, and we shouldn't make out that he hasn't.
When did Smalling get away with mistake? Every player gets criticised here for mistake he makes, it's simple as that. Jones is pretty much the main culprit for both goals last night, so he will be blamed.
Last year, Darren Fletcher was amazing in pre season, but he couldn't hack it at turf moor, a few weeks later.
Pre season means eff all. Regardless of whether a player performs well or not. Let the folk here say what they want about Jones, however, what we've seen over the last two weeks means nothing.
Possibly. Obviously that's a matter of opinion, however it seems like the manager has shown as much, if not more faith in Jones than he has Smalling. If Jones plays ahead of Smalling this season he will be criticised by many on here for little kid no reason, simply because they prefer Smalling, kinda childish when you think about it.
Think it all depends on Evans mate if Jonny stays he will retain the title. If he goes then they have narrowed it down to Jones or Blind with Phil looking the favourite.
Remember the days when pre-season games weren't televised and if they were bad performances weren't really looked into too much because well they are just warm up matches to get the players fit?
I miss those days.
OK then
Indeed.
Agree totally, but he's not going to work in a possession oriented team where you have to pass out from the back. For all his entertaining gifs, Jones is a better footballer. LVG would rather include a player who is less talented defensively but can function in his system. Jones still has the higher upside in my opinion.
At the moment, we can only judge him on the pre season games though, because thats the only games he's had. Its the same reason people are going mad from Darmians performances in pre season.
Jones, in my opinion, had a very good end to last season. I see no reason why he can't pick up where he left off.
His defending (or lack of) for PSG's second goal was brutal. It's the sort of thing that isn't taught either. He should instinctively know where Ibrahimovic is yet manages to wander out of position, completely unaware of the only man he has to mark. It's inherent, this sort of thing, and Jones just doesn't have the required brains and nous. We've seen it too many times now.
If this guy is ever going to be a starter for our team in the future, we are in deep trouble. He is 23 and has been doing the same crap for the last 3 years now, there has been no progression in him as a player. The next Duncan Edwards my arse, please lets just get Smalling in and a left footed CB for the season...
No, you're spot on. We watched him doing the same mistakes over and over again since he arrived, and I just don't see any hope for improvement when he has not shown any form of increasing footballing IQ at the very least.
He also has trouble dealing with long balls. It's criminal. I remember him defending against Basel with Rio in 2011. They ripped him to shreds. He still makes the same mistakes as he did back then.
And the amount of time he comes rushing out to the fullback area is silly. When did Rio ever do that? There is literally no communication in our defence.
If we go in with our defence, we are not challenging for nothing. It will be a fight for 4th place.
Generally there is a clear correlation of the 'scapegoat' tag and being a bit awful. I mean, the last two scapegoats were Evans and Cleverley who were just genuinely terrible.
No-one is making Jones scapegoat for yesterday games. Just that people are saying that he was at fault for both goals yesterday, which he was.
He isn't cut out t be a footballer full stop. If he's not tearing around the place running into and flattening lads he's tripping himself upside down and all as a result of him being not to clued in as into whats going on around him, that's why he's always 10 or 11 yards behind the pace. There's a breed of a donkey in him I'd say. If I was him I'd seriously start thinking about giving Rugby a shot now. Ring St. Helens or something Woodard.
People tend to pick out all he faults in a player they dislike, especially if that player is starting ahead of their preferred choice. This is clearly the case with Jones.
Rio Ferdinand used to regularly go to sleep and lose his man up until the age of 24/25. He was far more talented than Jones admittedly but whingeing about a 23 year old defender occasionally switching off...after a meaningless friendly...following several other meaningless friendlies where he was decent...no comment.
I'll be more concerned if he plays like that in a meaningful game. He didn't perform like that in the second half of last season where at times, he looked at home in the LCB slot. I'm not saying he was magnificent and completely clear of errors, but we were a lot more solid with him there and Smalling next to him.
Rio Ferdinand could actually defend inbetween those concentration lapses, though.
What you've just said has been known for at least two years now. He isn't a footballer.
He would be fine for a mid-table side but I have very strong doubts he'll ever be good enough for a team in Europe.
As you said, what he lacks is footballing intelligence and quite frankly (and rather embarrassingly) basic awareness of his man and even what he's doing himself.
As other players with that limitation have proven, it's unlikely to come with age.
Right, so Jones can't defend but has played for Man Utd since he was 19. OK.
The Jones hatred is becoming tiresome and the season hasn’t even kicked off yet.
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