Phil Foden - What Is His Potential?

NasirTimothy said:
He could match Kaka’s goal tally, assist tally and trophy cabinet (well maybe not that one TBH) and still not be half the player that Kaka was. Peak Kaka was the best player in the world, can’t see Phil Foden ever being that.
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Without comparing him to past players one thing he has achieved playing in a front 3 is he is ahead of Sterling, Mahrez, Jesus, Torres and Grealish in terms of automatic starter for the big games for City. That is some endorsement..
It won't be long before that applies to 8 as well.
 
M113FF said:
Without comparing him to past players one thing he has achieved playing in a front 3 is he is ahead of Sterling, Mahrez, Jesus, Torres and Grealish in terms of automatic starter for the big games for City. That is some endorsement..
It won't be long before that applies to 8 as well.
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Yeah Ok. Pep likes him. But where was he in the Euros for example, when he dyed his hair bleach blonde and was supposed to ‘Gazza-up’ the tournament? What happened to that?
 
Gio said:
Before that though he hasn't really played that much - the equivalent of 12-20 full games a season.

I'd agree with the principle though that he played enough last season and taking a slow start to this campaign is the right thing to do given he was occupied for most of the summer with England. Guardiola has that luxury where he can allow Foden to recover and rebuild in preparation for the season, while others have thrown their best players in under-cooked, which will harm their chances of a successful season.
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Yes 1783 minutes for 19/20 so 20/21 was really his "adult" breakout season. Another factor is he played another 650ish minutes or so in project restart so for a 12 month period his workload was heavy.

I've no problem with his lighter minutes in earlier seasons simply based on his consistently high standard with big minutes last season. All City players involved with England had a 4 week break after the Euros and plus his time out with his injury at the start of this season he has had the perfect break from playing before his re-introduction last month.
 
cyberman said:
They all spend long periods on the bench. There is no long term plan, they’re easily replaceable for him. Look at Foden himself
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This isn't true at all though, they all played a lot and they all had their best seasons with Pep.
Generally Pep rotates his team a lot, so going by your logic, no player (or only very few) is irreplaceable, that doesn't mean they don't play a lot.

Hammondo said:
Not an impressive list.
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I didn't say they were world-class players, but he made them play like world-class players.
 
footballistic orgasm said:
This isn't true at all though, they all played a lot and they all had their best seasons with Pep.
Generally Pep rotates his team a lot, so going by your logic, no player (or only very few) is irreplaceable, that doesn't mean they don't play a lot.


I didn't say they were world-class players, but he made them play like world-class players.
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My point is there is no long term plan for his wide players and they spend large periods of times in his bench. There’s nothing false about it.
3 years ago Sterling and Sane were the future of City. Then Bernardo showed up. Then Foden was going to own that position for the next 10 years. Now it’s Mharez and Jack. Sane left on a free, Sterling will be cut price in January and Bernardo is on a free next July. That’s in the space of 3 to 4 years. If you’re a wide man and are relying on a long term plan from Pep then you’re a fool.
 
footballistic orgasm said:
This isn't true at all though, they all played a lot and they all had their best seasons with Pep.
Generally Pep rotates his team a lot, so going by your logic, no player (or only very few) is irreplaceable, that doesn't mean they don't play a lot.


I didn't say they were world-class players, but he made them play like world-class players.
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I think he's bad at picking them, but yea he's good at getting more out of them and giving them chances.
 
cyberman said:
My point is there is no long term plan for his wide players and they spend large periods of times in his bench. There’s nothing false about it.
3 years ago Sterling and Sane were the future of City. Then Bernardo showed up. Then Foden was going to own that position for the next 10 years. Now it’s Mharez and Jack. Sane left on a free, Sterling will be cut price in January and Bernardo is on a free next July. That’s in the space of 3 to 4 years. If you’re a wide man and are relying on a long term plan from Pep then you’re a fool.
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Bernardo and Sané weren't playing the same position, and Sané didn't leave for free.
Sterling has been a regular starter for City since Pep arrived, until the 2nd half of last and this season even though he's been out of form for a way longer period.
Mahrez has played a lot if you look at the minutes he's played, especially last season.
Pedro was a regular starter at Barca.
Coman and Costa played a lot when he was at Bayern.

In his system, the players move around a lot. So some wide players who have very good movements (Torres, Sterling) also play as fowards.

A lot of big teams (including United) have a lot wide fowards, so i don't see where you are going to with this "long term plan" argument.
 
footballistic orgasm said:
Bernardo and Sané weren't playing the same position, and Sané didn't leave for free.
Sterling has been a regular starter for City since Pep arrived, until the 2nd half of last and this season even though he's been out of form for a way longer period.
Mahrez has played a lot if you look at the minutes he's played, especially last season.
Pedro was a regular starter at Barca.
Coman and Costa played a lot when he was at Bayern.

In his system, the players move around a lot. So some wide players who have very good movements (Torres, Sterling) also play as fowards.

A lot of big teams (including United) have a lot wide fowards, so i don't see where you are going to with this "long term plan" argument.
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I’m not really arguing with you, I’m saying Pep hasn’t got long term plans for wide players since he signs so many and hordes them.
There’s no eye to the future. There is no blue print. How Pep uses them in his formation doesn’t really come into this
 
Starting in midfield with Mount and Rice. Grealish also playing. Someone ( Southgate) woke up feeling lucky
 
Gio said:
Before that though he hasn't really played that much - the equivalent of 12-20 full games a season.

I'd agree with the principle though that he played enough last season and taking a slow start to this campaign is the right thing to do given he was occupied for most of the summer with England. Guardiola has that luxury where he can allow Foden to recover and rebuild in preparation for the season, while others have thrown their best players in under-cooked, which will harm their chances of a successful season.
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He got injured with England that's why he's hardly played this season
 
NK86 said:
The same Sancho who was an assist machine in Bundesliga? Is that the same Sancho you are referring to who has been at United (a new team in a new league) for a whole 2 mins! Also he is now slowly getting a footing (what a surprise that a young player from a different league is taking to adapt). Nice try for a WUM.

A proper comparison would be Greenwood and he has been brilliantly managed by Ole.
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I don’t know enough about Greenwood to make an informed comment, but I will say that, from the little that I’ve seen of him, he looks to be a very special young player.
Regards the Foden / Sancho career development discussion, both being City youth players who’s career development I am dry familiar with and about which I’m very comfortable to comment upon. . . Well I have my opinion and you have yours and we’ll need to be happy to differ.
And I wish the very best to both of them, both emerged as great youth talents a couple of seasons back and each took different paths.
One wanted to stay under Pep’s careful tutelage and one wanted to be a first team player and in the spotlight - one is now a recognised and much respected international, with many national honours, and one can hardly get game time.

I truly wish better for Sancho. When he was with us he was awesome for his age, he had a fantastic trajectory and I truly hope he achieves and indeed exceeds the levels that he showed glimpses of in his time as a City youth.
I‘m sure that he’ll be managed carefully into your first team, that good management will now be applied and that his lack of game time is him taking a step back to then take two steps forward, so to speak.
I think he’ll come good. I think he’ll be a star for you in future seasons. I do, however, think that he would be a better player now if he’d stayed in City’s academy and then trained with and integrated unto City’s Senior Squad, as Foden did.
 
I think he’s just fortunate that he’s playing under possibly this generations greatest manager.
As good a player as he is, he is just the latest in a loooooong line of English players over hyped to hills.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
I think he’s just fortunate that he’s playing under possibly this generations greatest manager.
As good a player as he is, he is just the latest in a loooooong line of English players over hyped to hills.
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Agreed. It happens with every English player who shows even a modicum of out of the box skill because England doesn’t produce many players like that.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Agreed. It happens with every English player who shows even a modicum of out of the box skill because England doesn’t produce many players like that.
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This is the main problem facing these younger player. The media hypes them up to crazy levels then the same media destroys them when they dont hit those same levels
 
HerbT said:
I don’t know enough about Greenwood to make an informed comment, but I will say that, from the little that I’ve seen of him, he looks to be a very special young player.
Regards the Foden / Sancho career development discussion, both being City youth players who’s career development I am dry familiar with and about which I’m very comfortable to comment upon. . . Well I have my opinion and you have yours and we’ll need to be happy to differ.
And I wish the very best to both of them, both emerged as great youth talents a couple of seasons back and each took different paths.
One wanted to stay under Pep’s careful tutelage and one wanted to be a first team player and in the spotlight - one is now a recognised and much respected international, with many national honours, and one can hardly get game time.

I truly wish better for Sancho. When he was with us he was awesome for his age, he had a fantastic trajectory and I truly hope he achieves and indeed exceeds the levels that he showed glimpses of in his time as a City youth.
I‘m sure that he’ll be managed carefully into your first team, that good management will now be applied and that his lack of game time is him taking a step back to then take two steps forward, so to speak.
I think he’ll come good. I think he’ll be a star for you in future seasons. I do, however, think that he would be a better player now if he’d stayed in City’s academy and then trained with and integrated unto City’s Senior Squad, as Foden did.
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What are you talking about! Sancho is regarded exceptionally highly world-wide. The guy has done it in the Bundesliga and the CL. Just because Southgate doesn't pick him, doesn't make him an unknown qty on the international stage.
Also, Sancho has outperformed Foden by a considerable margin in their short careers so far. Not sure what are you seeing to even suggest that Foden is more accomplished than Sancho.

Sancho did the right thing to move to Dortmund. He established himself as a starter and proved himself to be a very good player amd not just potential. Foden has done well too but ask any neutral and they will easily say Sancho has achieved more so far. To say otherwise is laughable at this stage.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Agreed. It happens with every English player who shows even a modicum of out of the box skill because England doesn’t produce many players like that.
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Yeah true. If any English player has good skill and close control then they are overhyped. It happened for years. Josh McEachran was England's Pirlo and it was competition in the press, who can come up with more jizzworthy articles. Few years later, he is playing in lower leagues.

Foden isn't comparable to McEachran as he is more proven and looks very good player but the point stands. English players with skill are called as next big thing, generational talents and English players with tactical awareness are called donkeys (see Henderson and I'm guilty of it too).
 
English players get hyped up because we are primarily watching an English league with English players and an English sport. It's just natural.

I don't get why people have to keep talking about players being overrated when it comes to England like we just didn't reach a final with a shit manager either.

So what? We are going to start overatting Norwegian players just because of Haaland now? What happened to all the hype that Odegaard had all those years ago? Completely dead. The French player that only has to play 3 good games a season to get overhyped like ndombele? The Belgian hype? Just as overrated. Achieved nothing. Tielemans gets talked about now like he plays great football consistently Foden does so much better for a better club and reached a CL final playing for that club too.
A CL final that had a club with players like John stones (no one rated him before - because he was overrated :rolleyes: ), Mount, Foden, Walker, Sterling, Reece James, Chilwell and other reserves to choose from. Then there is Grealish added again the following summer.

Yeah okay the English players are overhyped :rolleyes: Euro finals, CL finals, clubs and countries- if only thing that lacks and has been lacking is that managerial step to take everything or copy everything to the next level.

Everyone raves about Scholes at their club. Gerrard at theirs. Terry, Lampard or Cole at theirs. Ultimately its Eriksson and Southgate that are more overrated than the players.
 
NK86 said:
What are you talking about! Sancho is regarded exceptionally highly world-wide. The guy has done it in the Bundesliga and the CL. Just because Southgate doesn't pick him, doesn't make him an unknown qty on the international stage.
Also, Sancho has outperformed Foden by a considerable margin in their short careers so far. Not sure what are you seeing to even suggest that Foden is more accomplished than Sancho.

Sancho did the right thing to move to Dortmund. He established himself as a starter and proved himself to be a very good player amd not just potential. Foden has done well too but ask any neutral and they will easily say Sancho has achieved more so far. To say otherwise is laughable at this stage.
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So you’re saying that Sancho, who can’t get a game at his own club, because he can’t be trusted to not go missing, and who can’t get in his national side, is recognised as being fundamentally better than Foden, who is ripping it up for both club and country?

When you take those pink tints off and take a look at reality you’re sure going to get a cruel surprise fella.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
I think he’s just fortunate that he’s playing under possibly this generations greatest manager.
As good a player as he is, he is just the latest in a loooooong line of English players over hyped to hills.
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Think he's already shown that he's much better than the likes of Barkley, Wilshere and the other young English midfielders who never lived up to their potential. The level Foden is at now is basically already the player people thought Wilshere might become.
 
Noot said:
Think he's already shown that he's much better than the likes of Barkley, Wilshere and the other young English midfielders who never lived up to their potential. The level Foden is at now is basically already the player people thought Wilshere might become.
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Absolute nonsense. Foden is nowhere near Wilshere at his best which was short lived unfortunately due to injury. The fact that you’re lumping Wilshere in with Barkley is also pretty bizarre. Foden has a long way to go yet.
 
“The media hype them up”, but then when they don’t, forums and social media overhype them and get paranoid about favouritism from the media.

The press cannot win.

Even the clubs themselves do it. When Joe Cole came on to make his debut, West Ham announced him as something like “England and world football’s next superstar Joe Cole”. No pressure lad.

For what it’s worth, I think Foden has all of the tools to be a top, top player.
 
Noot said:
Think he's already shown that he's much better than the likes of Barkley, Wilshere and the other young English midfielders who never lived up to their potential. The level Foden is at now is basically already the player people thought Wilshere might become.
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Tbf your opinion is highly biased. He is a good player being coached by one of this generations best managers in Pep. We will wait to see how he fairs after Pep has left, to truly see how good he is.
 
HerbT said:
So you’re saying that Sancho, who can’t get a game at his own club, because he can’t be trusted to not go missing, and who can’t get in his national side, is recognised as being fundamentally better than Foden, who is ripping it up for both club and country?

When you take those pink tints off and take a look at reality you’re sure going to get a cruel surprise fella.
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Are you a troll, or just ignorant? What is your problem with Sancho? He's quite clearly a very talented player. Just as Foden is. Why is this so difficult to grasp?
 
HerbT said:
So you’re saying that Sancho, who can’t get a game at his own club, because he can’t be trusted to not go missing, and who can’t get in his national side, is recognised as being fundamentally better than Foden, who is ripping it up for both club and country?

When you take those pink tints off and take a look at reality you’re sure going to get a cruel surprise fella.
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Perhaps you were not following the fact the guy literally got transferred to his new club. Was not match fit for the first few games and is now slowly being integrated in the team. But carry on with your idea that Sancho has just started playing football completely ignoring his performances the last 2-3 seasons with Dortmund. Foden has had 1 decent/good season and the way you're talking him up while suggesting that Sancho has not progressed as much as him only shows me you do not follow anything outside EPL.

As for him not getting games for England, does it really matter? It's more to do with Southgate than Sancho. Rashford barely played at the Euros. You think Foden is better than him as well?
 
Perhaps you were not following the fact the guy literally got transferred to his new club. Was not match fit for the first few games and is now slowly being integrated in the team. But carry on with your idea that Sancho has just started playing football completely ignoring his performances the last 2-3 seasons with Dortmund. Foden has had 1 decent/good season and the way you're talking him up while suggesting that Sancho has not progressed as much as him only shows me you do not follow anything outside EPL.

As for him not getting games for England, does it really matter? It's more to do with Southgate than Sancho. Rashford barely played at the Euros. You think Foden is better than him as well?
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That's really not that contentious of an opinion. Foden has been better than Rashford for the last twelve months at least.
 
mancan92 said:
How can you be only a "promising talent" when you deliver performances week in and week out and perform against the best opposition?
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in an absurdly stacked team. Again, what happened to him in the Euros?
 
Remember the geese said:
Are you a troll, or just ignorant? What is your problem with Sancho? He's quite clearly a very talented player. Just as Foden is. Why is this so difficult to grasp?
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What kind of ignorant troll are you spouting your twisted lies - I didn’t say that Sancho wasn’t very talented and if you could be arsed to read back through my conversation you’ll see that I’ve praised Sancho and expressed my wish that he develops to meet his full potential.

My point (in response to an eejit who claimed that Foden was being badly developed) was that Foden and Sancho came through the same academy at approx the same age but Sancho shot off in search of first team football while Foden stayed to be developed judiciously under Pep’s tutelage.
My further point was that Foden has blossomed while Sancho has gone sideways which supported my point that Foden was being well developed while Sancho had seemingly lost much of what he once had in Germany. I hope that gets sorted out at United.

You can now prove yourself a man by apologising for your spurious accusations, thank you.
 
NasirTimothy said:
in an absurdly stacked team. Again, what happened to him in the Euros?
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That’s a stupid argument.
Pogba plays in an absurdly stacked team but only manages to impress in 1 out of 4 games, while Foden impresses in at least 3 out of 4.
According to you that means Pogba's not an established talent . . which is stupid.
 
HerbT said:
My further point was that Foden has blossomed while Sancho has gone sideways which supported my point that Foden was being well developed while Sancho had seemingly lost much of what he once had in Germany. I hope that gets sorted out at United.
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This is the problem I have. Sancho has supposedly lost his powers based on a handful of games. Wise up!
 
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