Phil Foden - [insert title update here as he is past the "has he got potential?" point now]

Davs

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Just browsing some interviews and radio shows this morning and had a listen to some comments from James Ducker on Phil Foden.

In a nut shell, he's made a comment saying he's England's most exciting talent since Wayne Rooney - a very big statement, especially to most of us here.

Where does the Caf think his potential lies? Is he going to be the next Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard or is he going to be the next Ross Barkley?

Full video here;

 
He's a good young player and he's going to be a very good player. Don't thing he's going to be Messi levels but he's going to be a top player.

He's the one City player I'd take if I could.
 
-9

So varies.

Seriously though, it's hard to guess how good young players will be.
 
I think he will have to leave City if he wants to reach his full potential. I just can't see him getting regular game time over both Silva's and De Bruyne anytime soon.
 
Love all the footy manager relies :lol:

Seriously think he will be a very good player it's all about opportunities for him now.
 
willhse456 said:
I think he will have to leave City if he wants to reach his full potential. I just can't see him getting regular game time over both Silva's and De Bruyne anytime soon.
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Yup, agreed. Don't think he will though which means he'll stagnate and won't develop as he should imo.
 
The fawning from Ducker is nauseating

You look at their stockpiling of players and how many of their wonderful academy players have had a sniff? You could count on your two thumbs. Wonderful Pep strikes again. Their one homegrown player has 10 appearances. Against who, I don’t know. How many as a starter? Utter fraud and the fecking press fawn all over them whilst Jose doesnt give Rashers, McTom, Lingard etc a sniff.
 
He's no more talented than Patrick Roberts was at that age, all depends on how hard he works from here on, don't think he'll develop much at City with their riches in his position.

Guess we'll see.
 
Denis' cuff said:
The fawning from Ducker is nauseating

You look at their stockpiling of players and how many of their wonderful academy players have had a sniff? You could count on your two thumbs. Wonderful Pep strikes again. Their one homegrown player has 10 appearances. Against who, I don’t know. How many as a starter? Utter fraud and the fecking press fawn all over them whilst Jose doesnt give Rashers, McTom, Lingard etc a sniff.
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The worst youth team system on red planet with the most PR around it.

Ed needs to adopt the special treatment “perks” along with the “press packs” the state of Dubai is giving to the journos .
 
Well its highly likely he'll end up both below Barkley or Rooneys talent but that's largely because most talented players that age do disappear into oblivion.

The only accurate statement you can make judging young talents is that they've yet to dissapoint.

Not sure why City like to hype him up, won't do the lad any good.
 
willhse456 said:
I think he will have to leave City if he wants to reach his full potential. I just can't see him getting regular game time over both Silva's and De Bruyne anytime soon.
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Agreed. With City signing Mahrez, their preferred subs for most games will be Aguero/Jesus (whoever is on the bench), Sterling and Silva. He'll play a few more minutes than last season but can't see him getting near 1000.

His teammate Brahim Diaz is in a similar situation and in the last year of his contract. If he has any sense, he won't sign it and move elsewhere.
 
Has the name of a portly darts player.

Needs and -inho or an -aldo on the end of there.

Philippe Fodenaldo would definitely be going places on name value alone. Phil Foden is even less glamorous than 10 Scott McTominays.

I've never seen him play.
 
Pep sees him as more of a central midfielder than an attacking one. I think he will end up being similar to Modric as they both have similar attributes: diminutive, great close control, hard to shake off the ball, great engine and a great shot from range.

His potential is massive. He is hugely talented.

These are his highlights vs Bayern

 
If he doesn't leave City, his future probably won't be as bright as it potentially could be. He needs to play, can't see him getting high enough up the pecking order to really develop. If he can force his way into playing lots for City, then yeah skys the limit for him.
 
I'd regard Sancho and Gomes as having bigger potential. A sound argument could be made for Sessegnon and Hudson-Odoi, too. Still, he has it in him to be a top class talent.
 
Honestly he needs to leave City to get any chance of having a career. If he hangs around until he’s 20 and still not playing regularly I feel his development will have been stunted.

Happens too many times. Look at Loftus-Cheek, quite why he feels he can get into that Chelsea team is beyond me. Should have pushed for a move this season. He isn’t going to play and it will set him back again.
 
Watching City preseason games, Foden had okay - very good performances, better than Diaz's. I was more impressed with Eric Garcia (ex-Barca) and Claudio Gomez (ex-PSG).


I am sure Foden will have at least a decent carrier as a professional footballer (like Zaha, Januzaj, Cleverley), but he's still very young, anything could happen, he may become a David Silva or Emmanuel Frimpong or Michael Johnson.
 
willhse456 said:
I think he will have to leave City if he wants to reach his full potential. I just can't see him getting regular game time over both Silva's and De Bruyne anytime soon.
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I see this argument a lot, but I can't seem think of any world class players who started at a big club's academy, went to a smaller club n order to reach their potential, before going back to a big club for the rest of their illustrious career. He's better off staying at City and proving that he's good enough to take Silva's place in the side - if he does that then we know we have something special.
 
I think he is a much more proven talent than our own Gomes for example, who we also rave about. Better than Rooney? I doubt it, Rooney at his age was a fecking beast, developed into a world class player, but still didn’t fulfill all of his potential. So who knows, but Foden is a special talent but so many factors can still influence his career.
 
City paying 60 mil. pounds for players that gonna sit on the bench. Foden have no chance in such club even if he Messi level.
 
robinamicrowave said:
I see this argument a lot, but I can't seem think of any world class players who started at a big club's academy, went to a smaller club n order to reach their potential, before going back to a big club for the rest of their illustrious career. He's better off staying at City and proving that he's good enough to take Silva's place in the side - if he does that then we know we have something special.
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KDB left Chelsea for a smaller club to prove himself.
 
Who cares?? (apart from City fans!)

Many like him have come and gone. We'll only know by how the mighty Pep rates him. If he starts many games this season, that should tell you something.
 
robinamicrowave said:
I see this argument a lot, but I can't seem think of any world class players who started at a big club's academy, went to a smaller club n order to reach their potential, before going back to a big club for the rest of their illustrious career. He's better off staying at City and proving that he's good enough to take Silva's place in the side - if he does that then we know we have something special.
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Off the top of my head Reus, Eto'o, and Mata all left big academies to smaller clubs and then went on to become world class at top clubs. Also Hummels and Gnabry.

Not to mention others who just weren't academy kids to leave like KDB, Lukaku, Salah etc. And the biggest one of all is our record signing who had to leave us to play.
 
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Classical Mechanic said:
KDB left Chelsea for a smaller club to prove himself.
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Yep, good example. There's an argument that Lukaku did the same as well. So that's two players.

I'm gonna need more than that to understand why this advice is handed out to young players on such a regular basis.
 
Josep Dowling said:
Honestly he needs to leave City to get any chance of having a career. If he hangs around until he’s 20 and still not playing regularly I feel his development will have been stunted.

Happens too many times. Look at Loftus-Cheek, quite why he feels he can get into that Chelsea team is beyond me. Should have pushed for a move this season. He isn’t going to play and it will set him back again.
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I do. Every day. :drool::drool:
 
robinamicrowave said:
I see this argument a lot, but I can't seem think of any world class players who started at a big club's academy, went to a smaller club n order to reach their potential, before going back to a big club for the rest of their illustrious career. He's better off staying at City and proving that he's good enough to take Silva's place in the side - if he does that then we know we have something special.
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Beckham to PNE. Pique was loaned to Zaragoza. Lahm to Stuttgart. Alaba to Hofenheim.
 
vangagal said:
Beckham to PNE. Pique was loaned to Zaragoza. Lahm to Stuttgart. Alaba to Hofenheim.
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That's not what I asked, though. A loan move is often sanctioned by the parent club, which indicates that they see something in a particular player and want to keep him on the books (or at the very least raise their value). Players like Foden are effectively told by fans of other clubs to force a proper transfer downwards in order to get more game time and achieve their potential, but this bears fruit so rarely. For every De Bruyne who forced his way out of Chelsea to play more, you get your Cleverleys, your Welbecks, your Bentleys, your Francis Jefferses - i.e. players who went downwards and found their level because they weren't good enough.
 
robinamicrowave said:
That's not what I asked, though. A loan move is often sanctioned by the parent club, which indicates that they see something in a particular player and want to keep him on the books (or at the very least raise their value). Players like Foden are effectively told by fans of other clubs to force a proper transfer downwards in order to get more game time and achieve their potential, but this bears fruit so rarely. For every De Bruyne who forced his way out of Chelsea to play more, you get your Cleverleys, your Welbecks, your Bentleys, your Francis Jefferses - i.e. players who went downwards and found their level because they weren't good enough.
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When was the last time City's graduated properly cement his place in 1st team after Arab money? None. Sancho forced his way out so he can get a proper 1st team football. If he talented enough he can go anywhere. Sancho proved it. If you are not, you are a bust anyway. Problem is Pep hardly look to his youth. Its proven last season anyway. Are you gonna deny it? Or are you gonna use Zinchenko as example cause he isnt your academy's grad.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Off the top of my head Reus, Eto'o, and Mata all left big academies to smaller clubs and then went on to become world class at top clubs.

Not to mention others who just weren't academy kids to leave like KDB, Lukaku, Salah etc. And the biggest one of all is our record signing who had to leave us to play.
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I'm happy to accept players like De Bruyne in this argument because it's public knowledge that he forced a move away, achieved his potential, and then matched (and surpassed) the level of the club he forced his way out of. I'm not sure about Lukaku, Reus or Eto'o because by all accounts they wanted to stay and fight for their places but were sold regardless.

Again, the argument I see being put forward is that Foden "needs to leave", which reads to me that he's being advised by posters on this forum to force his way out. There are examples of players who've managed to do this and then stick a middle finger up at their previous club as they zoomed past them on the motorway, but so often you get players who take this advice and end up nowhere.

There's no correlation between players forcing their way out of a big club to "get chances and achieve their potential" and them coming back to haunt their previous club. In fact, if you looked far enough into this and spent months researching it, I bet you'd find that most world class players either start at big clubs and stay there, or start at smaller clubs and work their way up. You rarely end up world class by going backwards.
 
robinamicrowave said:
I'm happy to accept players like De Bruyne in this argument because it's public knowledge that he forced a move away, achieved his potential, and then matched (and surpassed) the level of the club he forced his way out of. I'm not sure about Lukaku, Reus or Eto'o because by all accounts they wanted to stay and fight for their places but were sold regardless.

Again, the argument I see being put forward is that Foden "needs to leave", which reads to me that he's being advised by posters on this forum to force his way out. There are examples of players who've managed to do this and then stick a middle finger up at their previous club as they zoomed past them on the motorway, but so often you get players who take this advice and end up nowhere.

There's no correlation between players forcing their way out of a big club to "get chances and achieve their potential" and them coming back to haunt their previous club. In fact, if you looked far enough into this and spent months researching it, I bet you'd find that most world class players either start at big clubs and stay there, or start at smaller clubs and work their way up. You rarely end up world class by going backwards.
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If the player forced it or not, the point still stands that players regularly move away from big clubs, develop and then end up back at another big club having a great career. Zaha could be about to be another name added to the list.
 
vangagal said:
When was the last time City's graduated properly cement his place in 1st team after Arab money? None. Sancho forced his way out so he can get a proper 1st team football. If he talented enough he can go anywhere. Sancho proved it. If you are not, you are a bust anyway. Problem is Pep hardly look to his youth. Its proven last season anyway. Are you gonna deny it? Or are you gonna use Zinchenko as example cause he isnt your academy's grad.
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Sancho hasn't proven anything yet, so I'm not sure if you can use him as an example.

It is a problem that our academy hasn't produced many regular first team players in a decade. Our last graduate who got regular first team appearances was Dedryck Boyata under Mancini, and he was hideous. You could argue that Kelechi Iheanacho was an "academy graduate" of ours too, but you'd be stretching the rules a little. But I'd put our problems down to those players being vastly overrated by our fanbase while in the academy and turning out not to be good enough - maybe they lacked talent, maybe they weren't coached well enough, maybe they weren't given chances, maybe it's all three.

But you said it yourself, "If you're not [talented enough], you are a bust anyway." The amount of young players we've been promised at City since that Youth Cup-winning side in 2008 that have ultimately failed to deliver is through the roof. Of the twenty-five academy players who've made at least one appearance for our first team since then but are no longer attached to the club, only nine of them play in the the top five European leagues, and only two of them make regular appearances for "big clubs" (Denis Suarez, Marcos Lopes).

With those odds, it'd be better for Foden to stick around at City and try his hand at getting some game time here instead of taking a backwards step that has just as much chance of damaging his career prospects.
 
P-Nut0712 said:
If the player forced it or not, the point still stands that players regularly move away from big clubs, develop and then end up back at another big club having a great career. Zaha could be about to be another name added to the list.
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If the player forced the move or not, the point also stands that players regularly move away from big clubs, don't develop, and then end up fading into obscurity. There is no correlation, there is no trend either way, so why is it always the first piece of advice handed out to ambitious young players?
 
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