'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

[JDoe]

But that doesn't reflect the draw as a whole. I mean you can't take 1 game as an entire draw.

I don't get how you are including games that City haven't even played, why do they matter?

13/14: Win vs (shitty) Arsenal, Win vs (shitty) Utd, Loss vs Madrid
14/15: Win vs Donezk, Win vs Porto, Loss vs Barca
15/16: Win vs Juve, Win vs Benfica, Loss vs Atletico
16/17: Loss vs Monaco
17/18: Win vs Basel, Loss vs Liverpool
18/19: Win vs Schalke, Loss vs Spurs
19/20: Win vs Madrid, Loss vs Lyon
20/21: Win vs Gladbach, Win vs Dortmund, Win vs PSG, Loss vs Chelsea
21/22: Win vs Sporting, Win vs Atletico, Loss vs Madrid

Out of all of those, apart from the 9 losses (where his teams have arguably even been favourites the majority of the time), he had 2 wins against opponents that were somehow individually comparably strong teams (19/20 vs Madrid, 20/21 vs PSG and with a stretch 21/22 vs Atletico). That's a really underwhelming record for a manager of his stature. Funny thing is, the loss against Madrid this week was pretty much the first time since 15/16 vs Atletico where he didn't do anything wrong and the team he put out played as was expected from them.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I'm not forgetting. I was letting you prove my point. I was only focusing on the winnable games like you were. You played Inter, Porto, Arsenal and Barca.
Truth is when you look at the draw as a whole it was quite tough really. But its easy to cherry pick certain games and say easy draw.
The truth is a draw of Inter, Porto, Arsenal and Barca is not an easy draw but easy to twist those two middle games. Then you immediately brought up Inter to show how tough the draw was...

You also left out that Liverpool team made back to back CL finals and got 97 points the next season. Dismissing them as a good draw is nonsense.

What are you on about? I’m not arguing United’s run in 09 was super difficult, it was pretty standard CL run. I'm saying City get generally very favourable draws, I even extrapolated the draws in two examples for you.

 

[Noot]

I am no tactical guru, I will leave that to others who think or belive that they are, but what he is doing right now, certainly in Europe isn't working.

It worked. Everything Pep did in this tie worked. The five reasons we didn't win were beyond the influence of tactics:

1. Our players weren't clinical enough

2. Madrid's players were incredibly clinical

3. We had to play with Fernandinho at RB for much of the tie, and Stones there for some of the rest

4. Our players panicked and made mistakes in the last ten minutes that let Madrid back into the game.


I can't honestly say any of that is Pep's fault. Our board should get some blame and so should some of the players, but Pep's team and tactics led to City being much the better side for almost the entire tie. He's not to blame for this one.

 

[MUW4Eva]

It worked. Everything Pep did in this tie worked. The five reasons we didn't win were beyond the influence of tactics:

1. Our players weren't clinical enough

2. Madrid's players were incredibly clinical

3. We had to play with Fernandinho at RB for much of the tie, and Stones there for some of the rest

4. Our players panicked and made mistakes in the last ten minutes that let Madrid back into the game.


I can't honestly say any of that is Pep's fault. Our board should get some blame and so should some of the players, but Pep's team and tactics led to City being much the better side for almost the entire tie. He's not to blame for this one.

A) Why was a half fit Walker picked, that was on Pep.

B) Why did he not alter tactics to whack the ball up the pitch, as far away from his own goal as possible, waste time etc, that was on him.

Two clear points that could have made a huge difference to this tie, both that were entirely down to his decision making.

 

[charlenefan]

Swings and roundabouts.

SAF was the best manager of all time and only did it twice in 27 years. How many finals was SAF in during those 27 years?

That alone should tell you how stupid the unrealistic expectations on Pep are. He's already matched the greatest of all times win haul and has 14 years to better it.

Are we saying Ancelotti and Zidane are better than SAF too because they put his CL record to shame. Ancelotti did it at different clubs and Zidane retained it.

Maybe we should realize it's a tough competition between lots of very strong teams and fine margins, decisions and luck all play a part.

I agree with this, Pep seems a bit cursed in the UCL the same way Fergie was. Meanwhile you have clubs like Liverpool and Madrid collecting wins for fun

 

[MUW4Eva]

I agree with this, Pep seems a bit cursed in the UCL the same way Fergie was. Meanwhile you have clubs like Liverpool and Madrid collecting wins for fun

Errr....except Sir Alex actually won the trophy and reached multiple finals, including doing so back to back, all the things that Pep has never done at City, so I fail to see how Pep is anything like Sir Alex.
Plus Sir Alex had to deal with the 3 foreigner ruling, something Pep has never had to deal with.
Imagine if he had to deal with that now!

 

[charlenefan]

Errr....except Sir Alex actually won the trophy and reached multiple finals, including doing so back to back, all the things that Pep has never done at City, so I fail to see how Pep is anything like Sir Alex.
Plus Sir Alex had to deal with the 3 foreigner ruling, something Pep has never had to deal with.
Imagine if he had to deal with that now!

I mean I'm not really interested in an argument of why Pep is in the same conversation as the GOAT but the fact Fergie only has 2 UCL's to his name in over 20 years in charge clearly isn't a good record. You also can't just ignore Pep's wins with Barca either because if you are ignoring everything pre City for Pep you're essentially looking at a 6 year career

 

[Red the Bear]

I'm not forgetting. I was letting you prove my point. I was only focusing on the winnable games like you were. You played Inter, Porto, Arsenal and Barca.
Truth is when you look at the draw as a whole it was quite tough really. But its easy to cherry pick certain games and say easy draw.
The truth is a draw of Inter, Porto, Arsenal and Barca is not an easy draw but easy to twist those two middle games. Then you immediately brought up Inter to show how tough the draw was...

You also left out that Liverpool team made back to back CL finals and got 97 points the next season. Dismissing them as a good draw is nonsense.

Good post, I agree.

 

[NoPace]

It worked. Everything Pep did in this tie worked. The five reasons we didn't win were beyond the influence of tactics:

1. Our players weren't clinical enough

2. Madrid's players were incredibly clinical

3. We had to play with Fernandinho at RB for much of the tie, and Stones there for some of the rest

4. Our players panicked and made mistakes in the last ten minutes that let Madrid back into the game.


I can't honestly say any of that is Pep's fault. Our board should get some blame and so should some of the players, but Pep's team and tactics led to City being much the better side for almost the entire tie. He's not to blame for this one.

Eh, I think it's fair to say Pep has built the best system in the world for league football but he can improve at substitutions and changing up tactics at halftime. Liverpool look like a new team every 2nd half, even if it is against easier opposition. Fergie had to change his approach to become a great CL manager and even then still made some big errors.

To be fair, you could literally argue that nobody who has not been lucky enough to manage Luka Modric and Benzema has a truly great CL record this century.

 

[do.ob]

I don't think we need to criticize Pep's tactics too much. The difference I see compared to Klopp or the current Madrid side is more of a motivational nature: Klopp is able to give his teams an insane amount of confidence. He has staged some legendary comebacks and even if things look grim the players don't seem to lose faith, the same applies to Madrid: they were outplayed for large parts of the game, but they never lost that bit of confidence that told them they could always come back. That's something Guardiola's teams seem to be missing. When things are going to plan they can be overwhelming, but when something unfortunate happens or when the pressure is getting too high, they seem to give way.

 

[giorno]

A) Why was a half fit Walker picked, that was on Pep.

Have you seen the game? Have you seen how City played? If he doesn't play Walker it's a massacre. Would it have been better for City to be 4-0 down at halftime?

B) Why did he not alter tactics to whack the ball up the pitch, as far away from his own goal as possible, waste time etc, that was on him.

They were time wasting for the entire game actually. Ultimately, managers aren't on the pitch. Knackered players not thinking straight happens. Punting the ball away just means you've got them on top of you 10 seconds later. There were only a couple situations they had were they could have wasted a bit of time and didn't, but it didn't matter. They conceded 2 goals in the space of 80 seconds, both times with 7-8 defenders in the box. It's not like they got caught on the counter or anything. And the ref gave 6 minutes of injury time as it was. They simply were never avoiding the goal situations from happening. They just defended those poorly. If there is any criticism to made here, maybe you could argue they should have taken more time before kick off after the first goal

 

[Pintu]

United also re-emerged at a time when English football had fallen badly off the pace due to the post-Heysel isolation. Much of the 90s was a steep learning curve. Pep does not have that excuse at City (not that I’m calling him a fraud).

Fergie spent the 90s fighting against a superior Serie A and other top 5 leagues still on par with the PL.

Guardiola operates in a very different reality where English clubs are richer and stronger, and his team the richest of all.

I don't get how you are including games that City haven't even played, why do they matter?

13/14: Win vs (shitty) Arsenal, Win vs (shitty) Utd, Loss vs Madrid
14/15: Win vs Donezk, Win vs Porto, Loss vs Barca
15/16: Win vs Juve, Win vs Benfica, Loss vs Atletico
16/17: Loss vs Monaco
17/18: Win vs Basel, Loss vs Liverpool
18/19: Win vs Schalke, Loss vs Spurs
19/20: Win vs Madrid, Loss vs Lyon
20/21: Win vs Gladbach, Win vs Dortmund, Win vs PSG, Loss vs Chelsea
21/22: Win vs Sporting, Win vs Atletico, Loss vs Madrid

Out of all of those, apart from the 9 losses (where his teams have arguably even been favourites the majority of the time), he had 2 wins against opponents that were somehow individually comparably strong teams (19/20 vs Madrid, 20/21 vs PSG and with a stretch 21/22 vs Atletico). That's a really underwhelming record for a manager of his stature. Funny thing is, the loss against Madrid this week was pretty much the first time since 15/16 vs Atletico where he didn't do anything wrong and the team he put out played as was expected from them.

So despite having coached Bayern and City over the last 9 years he very rarely manages to defeat serious adversaries.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

He wants Pogba and will probably play him in a deeper role, as reported by the Guardian. These last three weeks since losing 2-3 to Liverpool have really made me start to question him.

Seriously though, imagine Pogba supporting Bernardo Silva and KdB as the lone DM next year in a CL quarter final

 

[MUW4Eva]

I mean I'm not really interested in an argument of why Pep is in the same conversation as the GOAT but the fact Fergie only has 2 UCL's to his name in over 20 years in charge clearly isn't a good record. You also can't just ignore Pep's wins with Barca either because if you are ignoring everything pre City for Pep you're essentially looking at a 6 year career

Sir Alex had to deal with the 3 foreigner ruling, and deal with the bosman ruling coming into action, two big rules that massively affected the world game, and us, two rules that Pep never had to put up with, so context is king here.

But you do you, in trying to downplay Sir Alex's achievements.

 

[weetee]

There was an interesting fact given in the newspaper today: if City concede in the CL (later stages I guess) they do it rather rapidly multiple times. Systematic breakdowns. Strange pattern that.

I actually feel for Pep. He seems a genuinely nice guy and genius football tactician - not flawless but who actually is in real life - who eventually had his peak before he almost started. And now gets mocked because he actually tries things out, failing at times, testing boundaries of what is possible (with a handpicked luxury squad of course) in football.

Dunno, don‘t think we have enough of those managers.

 

[MUW4Eva]

There was an interesting fact given in the newspaper today: if City concede in the CL (later stages I guess) they do it rather rapidly multiple times. Systematic breakdowns. Strange pattern that.

I actually feel for Pep. He seems a genuinely nice guy and genius football tactician - not flawless but who actually is in real life - who eventually had his peak before he almost started. And now gets mocked because he actually tries things out, failing at times, testing boundaries of what is possible (with a handpicked luxury squad of course) in football.

Dunno, don‘t think we have enough of those managers.

We don't have enough of managers like Pep, because the rest of them are tied to their respective clubs budget, Pep doesn't have a budget, if he wants a £100 million player to rot away on the bench, he gets it.

No one else has such luxuries.

 

[Pintu]

I am not a Mourinho fan, but this comparison got my attention...

 

[stefan92]

I am not a Mourinho fan, but this comparison got my attention...

That's great for Mourinho and a bit less great for Pep. But I wouldn't use the "three years after" as an argument against Pep - if any, it would be a case for the quality of the team he left.

 

[De Portago]

We don't have enough of managers like Pep, because the rest of them are tied to their respective clubs budget, Pep doesn't have a budget, if he wants a £100 million player to rot away on the bench, he gets it.

No one else has such luxuries.

Anyone who manages to attain Guardiola's current perceived level will get such luxuries, the trick is that you have to convince everyone you're that good. There's a reason why Manchester City was hellbent on getting him particularly to the extent of hiring more or less entire Barcelona setup and giving him carte blanche, they could've gotten Ancelotti probably at that point without breaking a sweat, but they wanted Guardiola first and foremost. Either they are morons paying through the roof for something they could've gotten for much less money, or they know something that the general public doesn't.

Now ask yourself why does he happen to have such a glowing reputation amongst his prospective employers while fans and armchair experts keep nitpicking and disparaging him? Someone has to be wrong in that particular debate.

 

[MUW4Eva]

Anyone who manages to attain Guardiola's current perceived level will get such luxuries, the trick is that you have to convince everyone you're that good. There's a reason why Manchester City was hellbent on getting him particularly to the extent of hiring more or less entire Barcelona setup and giving him carte blanche, they could've gotten Ancelotti probably at that point without breaking a sweat, but they wanted Guardiola first and foremost. Either they are morons paying through the roof for something they could've gotten for much less money, or they know something that the general public doesn't.

Now ask yourself why does he happen to have such a glowing reputation amongst his prospective employers while fans and armchair experts keep nitpicking and disparaging him? Someone has to be wrong in that particular debate.

It was quite obvious why they went all out to get him, why they got his mates in from Barcelona, & that as to take them from being successful on a domestic level, (which they were before Pep arrived, especially under Mancini) to being successful on a European level.

It was the right call at the time for sure, despite his failures at Bayern.

But since he has been appointed, he has failed to take them to European glory, so he has been a failure as City manager based on just why he was hired.

They would be better off moving for someone else, but they are stuck to this outdated theory that Pep is still the man to take them to Champions League glory, when all of the available evidence points towards that not being the case at all.

 

[DoneDaDa]

I don't think we need to criticize Pep's tactics too much. The difference I see compared to Klopp or the current Madrid side is more of a motivational nature: Klopp is able to give his teams an insane amount of confidence. He has staged some legendary comebacks and even if things look grim the players don't seem to lose faith, the same applies to Madrid: they were outplayed for large parts of the game, but they never lost that bit of confidence that told them they could always come back. That's something Guardiola's teams seem to be missing. When things are going to plan they can be overwhelming, but when something unfortunate happens or when the pressure is getting too high, they seem to give way.

I wouldn't say Pep team lack motivation or confidence. I'd say as funny as it may sound they lack in specific personnel on the team. At the moment there is no leader in that squad, outside of KdB they have no other player that display any form of personality. Laporte and Ederson are problems, this is the third time I've seen Laporte make a huge mistake in a big CL KO round for them, when it happens once, fine, when it happens a second time, your pushing it at this point and then a third time? It's clear this player has some fragility and not a player you should be trusting in these big situation. After Lyon, when Pep benched Sterling with how unreliable he was in big games, they make it to a final and SF. I also saw on reddit that Dias/Stones partnership last season conceded 5 goals in 13 games in the CL, this season since Laporte has been a started they've conceded 16 goals in 12 games, as much as Pep likes to rotate he needs to realize chemistry plays a big part in this neither Dias/Stones have a good chemistry with Laporte. As far as it goes for Ederson, if Allison or Thibu were in City goal over those two legs it's unlikely they concede six goals, as much as Pep might like a ball playing GK, surely there is one out there that is good enough a shot stopper also.

In the CL (KO rounds) momentum plays a big part, from my own observation, the issue with Pep City is, when the momentum is on their side, the team misses too many goal scoring chances, while when the momentum is on the opposition team with Laporte and Ederson this leads to them conceding. This is the issue they need to resolve.

 

[Swordsman]

It worked. Everything Pep did in this tie worked. The five reasons we didn't win were beyond the influence of tactics:

1. Our players weren't clinical enough

2. Madrid's players were incredibly clinical

3. We had to play with Fernandinho at RB for much of the tie, and Stones there for some of the rest

4. Our players panicked and made mistakes in the last ten minutes that let Madrid back into the game.


I can't honestly say any of that is Pep's fault. Our board should get some blame and so should some of the players, but Pep's team and tactics led to City being much the better side for almost the entire tie. He's not to blame for this one.

1. time to get haaland a "proper" number 9.

2. They wasted a handful of chances too.

3. time to strengthen that position ?

4. lack of experience, lack of mental strength, lack of willpower ?

 

[Swordsman]

I wouldn't say Pep team lack motivation or confidence. I'd say as funny as it may sound they lack in specific personnel on the team. At the moment there is no leader in that squad, outside of KdB they have no other player that display any form of personality. Laporte and Ederson are problems, this is the third time I've seen Laporte make a huge mistake in a big CL KO round for them, when it happens once, fine, when it happens a second time, your pushing it at this point and then a third time? It's clear this player has some fragility and not a player you should be trusting in these big situation. After Lyon, when Pep benched Sterling with how unreliable he was in big games, they make it to a final and SF. I also saw on reddit that Dias/Stones partnership last season conceded 5 goals in 13 games in the CL, this season since Laporte has been a started they've conceded 16 goals in 12 games, as much as Pep likes to rotate he needs to realize chemistry plays a big part in this neither Dias/Stones have a good chemistry with Laporte. As far as it goes for Ederson, if Allison or Thibu were in City goal over those two legs it's unlikely they concede six goals, as much as Pep might like a ball playing GK, surely there is one out there that is good enough a shot stopper also.

In the CL (KO rounds) momentum plays a big part, from my own observation, the issue with Pep City is, when the momentum is on their side, the team misses too many goal scoring chances, while when the momentum is on the opposition team with Laporte and Ederson this leads to them conceding. This is the issue they need to resolve.

Did you mentioned shot stopper ? De Gea is one world class shot stopper. hehe.

 

[Red the Bear]

Getting pogba ? its a sackbale offense right there.

 

[kaiser1]

 

[Dansk]

I agree with this, Pep seems a bit cursed in the UCL the same way Fergie was. Meanwhile you have clubs like Liverpool and Madrid collecting wins for fun

I can't think of a club that has been luckier in the CL than Liverpool. It's absurd how much raw, unadulterated luck they enjoy in that competition. Imagine getting to play a CL final against fecking Tottenham, the worst team to have reached the final in living memory, barely in the top 20 of football clubs. And then they get a handball penalty in the first minute, the kind that is technically a penalty but totally undeserved and a complete freak accident where the ball gets shot up onto the arm of a defender who happens to have it in a position that doesn't count as "natural" in that nanosecond.

Then a few years later, a knockout run against Inter, Benfica and Villareal. Easiest route to the final I've ever seen. Go back to their golden era of the 70s and 80s and look at their final opponents there, too. Of the five finals they reached in those days, four were against opponents that had never won the thing before, and three of the four they won were against clubs that had never even reached the final before or done it ever since.

Let's put it into perspective. Of the six CL trophies Liverpool have, four came from finals against clubs for which that was the only CL final they've ever been in before or since, games that they were effectively guaranteed to win. Meanwhile, our finals have been against:

Benfica, one of the best teams in the world at the time, who had won it twice before in the same decade.

Bayern, probably the best team in the world at the time, their CL legacy speaks for itself.

Probably the best Chelsea team ever, we and they were the two best teams in the competition.

And then twice against a Barcelona side at Messi's absolute peak, widely considered the greatest team in the history of football.

 

[erikcred]

There is something about his tactics, management style or the mentality of players he buys that struggles with high pressure KO football when matched against a relatively ‘even’ opponent.

Exactly this. Pep seems to prefer players without strong personalities who are just skilled enough to execute his plan and instructions. He's basically "solved" league football in this way to an extent no one else has because 15 out of the 19 opponents just want to escape with a draw from the outset. But in the CL every opponent has a go and when things go off script you need a general on the field to take over.

He's fallen out with Zlatan, Eto'o, Yaya Toure, who are all exactly the kind of leaders you need in these moments. People who'll grab the game by the scruff of the neck and dictate it. I recall Eto'o saying that Pep wants schoolboy obedience from his players. How will they then be resilient to sudden spells of pressure that are not part of the plan?

 

[charlenefan]

Sir Alex had to deal with the 3 foreigner ruling, and deal with the bosman ruling coming into action, two big rules that massively affected the world game, and us, two rules that Pep never had to put up with, so context is king here.

But you do you, in trying to downplay Sir Alex's achievements.

Except I've just called him the GOAT?

Seems you're unable to take bias out of a discussion, are you a child?

 

[MUW4Eva]

Except I've just called him the GOAT?

Seems you're unable to take bias out of a discussion, are you a child?

What bias is there that I have supposedly shown??

Sadly my childhood days are well behind me, they are long gone, way in the rear view mirror.

Good times as they most definitely were, they are most definitely in the past, unless someone invents a working time machine.

 

[sangria]

Getting pogba ? its a sackbale offense right there.

Real Madrid have been trying to do that for years.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I am not a Mourinho fan, but this comparison got my attention...

That's great for Mourinho and a bit less great for Pep. But I wouldn't use the "three years after" as an argument against Pep - if any, it would be a case for the quality of the team he left.

Sorry but that Roma post is absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel. The only reason Mourinho has got them to a final is because the competition has only just been created for the rubbish teams to participate in. It's as much a credible European trophy as the Intertoto Cup back in the day, it's a joke tournament.

 

[TOPREDIAMNOT]

Had Grealish put one of those two glorious chances away just before Madrid score they go through and there is none of this.
Fine, fine lines. I think they lost it in the home tie.

They do seem cursed. No matter what happens they fail. Long may it continue

 

[MUW4Eva]

Had Grealish put one of those two glorious chances away just before Madrid score they go through and there is none of this.
Fine, fine lines. I think they lost it in the home tie.

They do seem cursed. No matter what happens they fail. Long may it continue

Lots of if's with City, if this happened, or if that had happened, fact is Grealish crumbles under pressure, he can't score when it matters most, he has been a major failure of a transfer.
He failed to do anything of any note when he came on.

And City were no where close to being good enough to go through, they didn't score enough, and conceded far too many.

You can't concede 6 goals in a semi final, and try to pretend that they were ever deserving of going through.

 

[Pintu]

That's great for Mourinho and a bit less great for Pep. But I wouldn't use the "three years after" as an argument against Pep - if any, it would be a case for the quality of the team he left.

Have to agree with that part. Even though it is not really Mourinho's fault that Porto never challenged for the CL after him. They lost all their top players after that. And it probably wasn't thanks to Pep that Flick won Bayern the CL 4 years after him.

Sorry but that Roma post is absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel. The only reason Mourinho has got them to a final is because the competition has only just been created for the rubbish teams to participate in. It's as much a credible European trophy as the Intertoto Cup back in the day, it's a joke tournament.

Can't disagree. Last season Roma had to beat Braga, Shakhtar, and Ajax in the KO stages of the EL to make it to the semifinal against United. This season they had a much weaker opposition in their way to this final (Vitesse, Bodø and Leicester). I would think their fans will remeber 2018 CL run more than this. In 2018 CL, they dominated a group with Chelsea and Atletico, before knocking out Barça in the quarters and losing 7-6 to Liverpool in the 1/2.

 

[Pretzels81]

Odd. He left Barca in 2012 because he couldn't "motivate the players anymore" (and he was right, 100 points league in 2013 and the 2nd Treble in 2015 with different managers), but he just won't leave City. Conclusion: the salary is too damn good.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

I've always thought that criticisms of Pep for joining Bayern and City, i.e. the teams with the biggest spending power in the Bundesliga and Premier League, were daft. If those clubs are interested in him and certainly in the case of City desperate to get him on board, why shouldn't he take the best jobs with the greatest resources? The same logic applies to any walk of life.

But I think it's a fair point to point out that he lacks a big 'underdog' triumph in comparison to many other elite managers, such as Ferguson winning the Cup Winners' Cup beating Bayern and Real en-route with Aberdeen (not to mention 3 league titles), Mourinho winning the UEFA Cup (their team was built on half the budget compared to Celtic's) and Champions League back to back with Porto etc.

Then again, enjoying a hugely successful and trophy laden playing career, followed by a hugely successful successful and trophy laden managerial career, must be incredibly special.

 

[padr81]

What are you on about? I’m not arguing United’s run in 09 was super difficult, it was pretty standard CL run. I'm saying City get generally very favourable draws, I even extrapolated the draws in two examples for you.

We get standard draws like everyone else. I'm saying just like that United run we get the average tough Champions League draw (like everyone else).
I showed you every possible potential run the CL we've had and none have been any easier than that United draw bar the season we went out to Spurs. Their are literally no easy draws, to win the CL you have to beat two of the best teams in Europe minimum.

The issue with City is not the draws are easy its they mess up the winnable games.

 

[padr81]

I don't get how you are including games that City haven't even played, why do they matter?

13/14: Win vs (shitty) Arsenal, Win vs (shitty) Utd, Loss vs Madrid
14/15: Win vs Donezk, Win vs Porto, Loss vs Barca
15/16: Win vs Juve, Win vs Benfica, Loss vs Atletico
16/17: Loss vs Monaco
17/18: Win vs Basel, Loss vs Liverpool
18/19: Win vs Schalke, Loss vs Spurs
19/20: Win vs Madrid, Loss vs Lyon
20/21: Win vs Gladbach, Win vs Dortmund, Win vs PSG, Loss vs Chelsea
21/22: Win vs Sporting, Win vs Atletico, Loss vs Madrid

Out of all of those, apart from the 9 losses (where his teams have arguably even been favourites the majority of the time), he had 2 wins against opponents that were somehow individually comparably strong teams (19/20 vs Madrid, 20/21 vs PSG and with a stretch 21/22 vs Atletico). That's a really underwhelming record for a manager of his stature. Funny thing is, the loss against Madrid this week was pretty much the first time since 15/16 vs Atletico where he didn't do anything wrong and the team he put out played as was expected from them.

Because we're talking about the draw, the fact City conspired to feck things up doesn't change who they would have played and how the draw panned out.


Back on topic, I'd like to see a few better records than Peps even excluding his Barca. We're talking 1 last 16, 3 QF, 4 SF and a Final in the last 9 years. I guarantee there isn't more than a handful.

CL Stats
Pep P 148 W 93 D 29 L 26 - ppg 2.08 - Times won - 2
SAF P 194 W 105 D 50 L 39 - ppg 1.88 - Time won - 2
Ancelotti P 178 W 99 D 39 L 40 - ppg 1.89 - Times won - 3
Jose P151 W 80 D36 L 55 - ppg 1.83 - Times won - 2
Klopp P 92 W 52 D 15 L 25 - ppg 1.86 - Times won - 1 (Phenomenal considering it includes Dortmund)
Zidane P 53 W 32 D 11 L 10 - ppg 2.02 - Times won - 3

I just don't see the issue. In terms of trophies only 3 managers in football history have won the CL more times than Pep (once more). In terms of match results he's purely the best in ppg.
There is literally nothing to suggest what people say about Pep in the CL, in fact its purely untrue.

 

[Noot]

1. time to get haaland a "proper" number 9.

3. time to strengthen that position ?

How can that be Pep's fault?

 

[Noot]

I am not a Mourinho fan, but this comparison got my attention...

Mourinho took Roma to a first European final in 31 yrs. Won Chelsea's first league title in 50 yrs Won Inter their first Champions League in 45 yrs. Won Madrid a Copa Del Rey after 22 yrs

Inter point is valid. The other three aren't.

Roma are in the final because it's a competition created specifically for teams that aren't good enough for the Europa League.

Chelsea won the league a couple of years after the takeover. Before that why would they be winning the league?

Madrid not winning the CdR is odd but doesn't point to Mourinho being a better manager than Pep in any way.