Well said
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
Well said
Nobody will ever emulate what Sir Alex did and the crazy runs we had (7 title in 9 years and then 5 titles in 7 years) but in terms of records at their peak, none of those sides did what the 2018 City team did when it broke:,
The all time points record (100)
Most wins (32)
Most goals (over 100)
Highest points differential (19)
Highest goal difference
You can qualify it anyway you want by talking about money, but plenty of teams have spent money. Nobody has managed to do that.
Chelsea, and man united have spent TONS of money in recent years and are way off the mark.
I can't understand people who watch city games and downplay the influence of Pep. It's for everybody to see. The improvement players like Rodri, Sterling etc make on the technical side as a footballer. Is down to him, no coach in the world does that as well as him.
And his system/philosophy is unmatched. None of the topmanagers in the world, could let a team play like him. Do you guys think Klop, Tuchel or even SAF would play Bernardo and KDB in one midfield? I don't think so. Pep makes it work.
And his system/philosophy is unmatched. None of the topmanagers in the world, could let a team play like him. Do you guys think Klop, Tuchel or even SAF would play Bernardo and KDB in one midfield? I don't think so. Pep makes it work.
To be fair, if Pep manages city for as long as Sir Alex managed us, I won't bet against him beating Sir Alex's record.
Although I hate him and think he needs unlimited funds to build his vision but there is no denying that his teams are in top 3 in the world if not at the top.
Your first sentence doesn’t make sense, what are you trying to say? On your second sentence, United have without the level of spending.
Where am I saying he’s a shit manager? Re read my post. The job is undoubtedly easier with unlimited funds and resources. As it would be for any other manager in football. If you’re not having to operate within a certain budgetary means, then your life is a lot lot easier.
City have spent £1bn since Pep joined the PL. I don’t know what United & Chelsea have in that time - do you know? I’d be interested to see what the side by spend is in the same time frame.
Guardiola has not spent as much (compared to the next highest spender) as some of the managers that came before him. For example, a certain Chelsea manager routinely spent 140+% of United's budget in the mid 2000s and never came managed to do what City just did.
Repeating a false statement about "unlimited" spending doesn't make it true. If it were, City's transfer record expenditure wouldn't be less than 70m.
This is exactly the type of bitter statement I used to hear about United when Edwards finally loosened the purse strings.
Your argument doesn’t add up. Mourinho was at Chelsea for 3 seasons in the mid 00s winning the league twice and a FA cup (and a couple of league cups). Who knows what would have happened if he stayed on in his fourth season? The fact that the interim manager (Avram) still managed to get his same team to push us all the way on 3 fronts that season proves my point.
Pep’s on course to win his 4th title in 6 seasons…basically at the same ratio Mourinho did in the 00s. Again, it’s like having unlimited resources and funds makes your job easier…because it does.
I'd love to see Pep play that midfield with Morton and Ox because he can't afford KdB and Bernado's salaries.
Not saying Pep isn't probably the best manager in the world. In my eyes he has given me the best football I have ever seen in 4 decades (that Barca team). But, proper recent comparisons with other world class managers can't happen until he is playing without the cheat codes.
Here you go, 2010-2021:
1. Chelsea
Transfer expenditure: €1,465million
Transfer income: €966.56million
Net spend: €498.44million
Trophies won: 8
Net spend per trophy: €62.3million
2. Liverpool
Transfer expenditure: €999.71million
Transfer income: €661.67million
Net spend: €338.04million
Trophies won: 5
Net spend per trophy: €67.6million
3. Manchester City
Transfer expenditure: €1,521.91million
Transfer income: €499.72million
Net spend: €1022.19million
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Trophies won: 10
Net spend per trophy: €102.21million
4. Arsenal
Transfer expenditure: €906.65million
Transfer income: €435.14million
Net spend: €471.51million
Trophies won: 4
Net spend per trophy: €117.87million
5. Manchester United
Transfer expenditure: €1,343.61million
Transfer income: €399.46million
Net spend: €944.15milion
Trophies won: 4
Net spend per trophy: €236million
6. Tottenham
Transfer expenditure: €790.26million
Transfer income: €622.24million
Net spend: €168.02million
Trophies won: 0
Net spend per trophy: N/A
How many games have Morton and Ox started for Liverpool this season?
Thiago and Fabinho are world class players and good as any in their positions in the world. Not adding Keira who was a beast in the Bundesliga. It is very convenient to mention fringe players to support your argument.
Thiago and Fabinho are world class players and good as any in their positions in the world. Not adding Keira who was a beast in the Bundesliga. It is very convenient to mention fringe players to support your argument.
I'd love to see Pep play that midfield with Morton and Ox because he can't afford KdB and Bernado's salaries.
Not saying Pep isn't probably the best manager in the world. In my eyes he has given me the best football I have ever seen in 4 decades (that Barca team). But, proper recent comparisons with other world class managers can't happen until he is playing without the cheat codes.
Let's hear from Thomas Muller
Ronaldo is 37 years old FFS, he can't dribble, can't pass, has a poor touch now, has no legs, etc....he is not at his prime, you are classifying him as WC based on his peak.
He hasn't done anything better than Emmanuel Dennis and Michael Antonio in EPL, if his name wasn't Ronaldo you would be roasting him for having 6 non-penalty goals in 16 PL matches.
Gundogan and Rodri can pass the ball, Fred and McTominay miss simples passes, can't even dominate Aston Villa and Watford midfield.
Cavani is on his last legs, he isn't better than Gabriel Jesus now, neither is 37 yo Ronaldo.
United only have Varane, De Gea, and Pogba(if he is fit) as quality players, the rest are unproven.
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You've got absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
Who cares how expensive Walker was? My point was that everyone said he was shite.
Otamendi wasn't just a regular starter in the 100pt season, he was the best defender in the league. He then played half the games or more over the next two seasons.
Sané being "the biggest talent" doesn't mean anything, he was unknown in England.
Bernardo Silva was quality for Monaco, won Ligue 1(after 16 years of Monaco not winning Ligue 1) and reached UCL semifinals, plus gor voted for best Ligue 1 player.
What has McTominay and Fred done before they arrived at United?
Stop overrating United squad.
Pep is the best manager in the world now, but people are overrating United squad way too much to prove that Pep is a great manager.
Damn so it's true that Pep really just said "Okay boys let's just splash some serious world record breaking fees for obviously crap players just to prove them how I can actually turn shite to gold"
. Thank God for Pep man, those 60m+ players would've been playing for Scunthorpe United without him.Sane being unknown in England is a new one for me, I must admit.
I don't get why it all has to be such extremes. Either City is filled with x world class players and their second and third string would still be top 4, or their players aren't really that good and only made to look good because of Pep. The truth clearly is somewhere in the middle. City has a great squad, no doubt, (so does United) but the reason City is performing so much better (and in turn makes people think their players are so much better than United's) is because they are a such well drilled side - everyone knows exactly what to do. This is also the reason why seemingly can slot in anyone and they basically look like world beaters.
I mean, which players in City are really amongst the five best players in the world in their position? Dias, Cancelo, Silva and De Bruyne maybe. Not that many more as far as I am concerned. And even so De Bruyne hasn't played at that level at all this season. Other than that they have a lot of very good players generally performing at a higher level than they would have elsewhere. Their depth also helps them greatly in the league. In terms of first XI they relly aren't all that, probably around the fifth best in the world and doesn't even have the best XI in England. It's a big difference to when Pep was at Barcelona and clearly had the best team in Europe. People like to cite that he took over a CL-winning Bayern team as some sort of sign that he flopped there, but they have managed exactly one CL title since his departure which, again, doesn't exactly scream flop for Pep. Even a Barcelona which continued to have one of the best squads in Europe for 6-7 years after his departure only managed to win CL once more in that time.
I mean, which players in City are really amongst the five best players in the world in their position? Dias, Cancelo, Silva and De Bruyne maybe. Not that many more as far as I am concerned. And even so De Bruyne hasn't played at that level at all this season. Other than that they have a lot of very good players generally performing at a higher level than they would have elsewhere. Their depth also helps them greatly in the league. In terms of first XI they relly aren't all that, probably around the fifth best in the world and doesn't even have the best XI in England. It's a big difference to when Pep was at Barcelona and clearly had the best team in Europe. People like to cite that he took over a CL-winning Bayern team as some sort of sign that he flopped there, but they have managed exactly one CL title since his departure which, again, doesn't exactly scream flop for Pep. Even a Barcelona which continued to have one of the best squads in Europe for 6-7 years after his departure only managed to win CL once more in that time.
How does City have 2 strong teams. I don't see it
Ederson Walker Dias Laporte Cancelo Rodri KdB Gundogan Bernardo Foden Mahrez
His second team would be
Steffen RB* Stones Ake Zinchenko Fernadinho Palmer Grealish Sterling Jesus Kayky
I can't get a backup Right back.
By the way this is what a Chelsea and Man Utd 2nd team looks like. Looks way stronger that a Man city team B
Kepa Azpi Christensen Chalobah Alonso Barkley RLC, Mount Werner Harvetz CHO
Henderson Dalot Telles Bailly Lindelof Matic Pogba VDB Greenwood Martial Lingaard (Mata Cavani)
Assuming City's first eleven is
Ederson Walker Dias Laporte Cancelo Rodri KdB Gundogan Bernardo Foden Mahrez
His second team would be
Steffen RB* Stones Ake Zinchenko Fernadinho Palmer Grealish Sterling Jesus Kayky
I can't get a backup Right back.
By the way this is what a Chelsea and Man Utd 2nd team looks like. Looks way stronger that a Man city team B
Kepa Azpi Christensen Chalobah Alonso Barkley RLC, Mount Werner Harvetz CHO
Henderson Dalot Telles Bailly Lindelof Matic Pogba VDB Greenwood Martial Lingaard (Mata Cavani)
wasn't it that City was about to sign same 37 year old Ronaldo which prompted us to buy him again? Are you seriuosly comparing Jesus and Sterling with Ronaldo and Cavani? They are at best comparable to Rashford and Martial.
Pep would love to have Cavani or Ronaldo in his side.
They are after Fred as well before United signed him. He'd be playing like Gundogan if he were in City.
SIR Alex played Scholes, Anderson and fecking Park as DM in one midfield.So don't speak unprepared especially about SAF especially in this forum and most especially with this nickname.
I can’t believe there is even a debate on this.
Man City’s second string until VERY recently…
Steffan (Ederson)
Walker (Cancelo)
Stones (Dias)
Ake (Laporte)
Zinchenko (Mendy)
Gundogan (Rodri)
Grealish (de Bruyne)
Fernandinho (Bernardo)
Ferran (Mahrez)
Jesus (Foden)
Palmer (Sterling)
They have 20 superb Premier League players before you even get to their youngsters. Walker, Stones, Gundogan, Grealish and Ferran (or whoever their new number 9 will be) would all walk into United’s first 11 and play every game.
Liverpool are playing a 35 year old Milner and have Origi and Minamino getting on the pitch.
United have a midfield of Fred and McTominey that play every game.
Even Chelsea have two starting CBs that want to leave, something City rarely have to deal with.
Everyone will have to sell and balance their budgets to try to improve the gapping holes in their first eleven.
City announce record profits in a Covid era and will spend big to replace Mendy/Fernandinho/Ferran without needing to sell anyone else.
I don’t understand why we can’t say that Guardiola is a great coach, while still being able to lament the sizeable advantage City have over the rest of the league.
Their success is down to both.
Man City’s second string until VERY recently…
Steffan (Ederson)
Walker (Cancelo)
Stones (Dias)
Ake (Laporte)
Zinchenko (Mendy)
Gundogan (Rodri)
Grealish (de Bruyne)
Fernandinho (Bernardo)
Ferran (Mahrez)
Jesus (Foden)
Palmer (Sterling)
They have 20 superb Premier League players before you even get to their youngsters. Walker, Stones, Gundogan, Grealish and Ferran (or whoever their new number 9 will be) would all walk into United’s first 11 and play every game.
Liverpool are playing a 35 year old Milner and have Origi and Minamino getting on the pitch.
United have a midfield of Fred and McTominey that play every game.
Even Chelsea have two starting CBs that want to leave, something City rarely have to deal with.
Everyone will have to sell and balance their budgets to try to improve the gapping holes in their first eleven.
City announce record profits in a Covid era and will spend big to replace Mendy/Fernandinho/Ferran without needing to sell anyone else.
I don’t understand why we can’t say that Guardiola is a great coach, while still being able to lament the sizeable advantage City have over the rest of the league.
Their success is down to both.
United signing Ronaldo was a mistake, he is 37, and requires service to score... building your team around a 37 years old, who does nothing outside of the small area, will never be good, it doesn't matter if he is a GOAT or not, time passes for everyone.
City tricked United into signing old Ronaldo IMO.
Ronaldo and Cavani together are like 70 years old, i doubt Pep is jealous of United having
2 ancient strikers who have no legs por PL... especially after seeing the position of United in PL table using those ancient strikers.
Sterling might be a bit wasteful in front of goal, but he presses, pass and dribble, 37 yo Ronaldo can't anymore.
Ronaldo might leave United in the summer, and you won't see him going to a team that aspire to win UCL, especially considering that he is earning 400k £ per weak at United.
Because Pep made most of those players.
Who was truly world class before City signed them?
The players benefit from not only his coaching but from the system that makes them look better than they are.
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Pretty sure they had the same financial advantage under their other coaches but didn't become anywhere near as good. We on the other hand spend a fortune to remain trash. We seriously need to stop discrediting him and find someone who can get us somewhere close to their level. We have the money, just need to get it done.
Litereally just said this in another thread but.
United have a midfield of Mcfred because Pogba is injured and Donny gets put in the dustbin.
United could literally field a 2nd XI of..
Henderson (ddg)
Dalot (awb)
Lindelof (varane)
Bailly (harry)
Telles (shaw)
Matic (mcT)
Pogba (fred)
Donny (bruno)
Greenwood (rashford)
Cavani (ronaldo)
Lingard (sancho)
Martial
Mata
More than 2 players for every position and only Bruno, Varane and Ronaldo is a noticeable drop comparable to KDB, Dias and Cancelo.
Chelsea - Mendy, Rudiger, Silva, Azpi, James, Chilwell, Kovacic, Jorginho, Mount, Lukaku, Werner
Their 2nd XI is - Kepa, Christiansen, Chalobah, Sarr, Alonso, Pulisic, Kante, RLC, CHO, Ziyech, Havertz with Saul and Barkley to spare. (I know Kante is likely 1st XI but right now TT is playing with a 2 and 3 attackers so you can swap him for Jorginho or Kovacic and nothing changes)
Thats not to say City don't have the best squad in the league especially best squad of 18 but the way people act like Pep has players coming out his ears while the others have weak benches is nonsense. Even Liverpool have Konate, Thiago, Firminio, Gomez, Tsmikas, Milneymar, Minamino on the bench.
How recently? When was the last time Mendy or Ferran played for City?
I am sorry but you can’t take credit for “making“ a player that cost €50 million. He currently has 12 players that cost more than that in his squad, with 3 more that cost more than €40.
This shouldn’t be a debate.
The whole idea of saying this player would walk into the United team is kind of redundant. Yes, obviously, based on performances this year most players in the City team would walk into the United team, no doubt. But most of them would look just as shit as most of our players does after a few months in the team. We have seen that pattern before. I think only de Bruyne, Dias and maybe Rodri (not because he is an incredible player, but because we haven't got any good DM) would truly improve our team long term of their players. Sure some will say Cancelo, but while he is incredible with the ball he is suspect without the ball and he'd be doing a lot more defending if he was at United.
If he were to retire today, he'll definitely be remembered as the preeminent manager of his generation and he definitely came out as the winner in the whole mou vs pep rivalry.
His league record has been superb and while him failing to win any European trophies outside of Barcelona will be held against him(im not counting the super cup at bayern) his consistency will ultimately cements him in that position and that's coming from someone who can't stand the guy.
Shame what happened with us during these years , but I guess there never was a chance of him managing us anyway, shame.
His league record has been superb and while him failing to win any European trophies outside of Barcelona will be held against him(im not counting the super cup at bayern) his consistency will ultimately cements him in that position and that's coming from someone who can't stand the guy.
Shame what happened with us during these years , but I guess there never was a chance of him managing us anyway, shame.
Emmm, this season??
If they are not replaced in the summer by two shiny new expensive signings, I will take back what I said.
City doesn't have a financial advantage over United and Chelsea, and they don't have a better team (first 11 atleast) on paper than Liverpool, United and Chelsea. However they have Pep, and that makes a huge difference.
The funny thing reading some posts about City players is that some are judging the finished (or almost finished) products they are now. No one was calling Dias a great player before playing for Pep, the same goes for every other players except KDB.
Some people also keep using the fact that the players were expensive as a correlation to them being star players or great players before joining City, which makes no sense. Transfer fees are based on a lot of things (age, buyout close, the club buying, the league, etc), which is why some average players cost much in tranfers.
The funny thing reading some posts about City players is that some are judging the finished (or almost finished) products they are now. No one was calling Dias a great player before playing for Pep, the same goes for every other players except KDB.
Some people also keep using the fact that the players were expensive as a correlation to them being star players or great players before joining City, which makes no sense. Transfer fees are based on a lot of things (age, buyout close, the club buying, the league, etc), which is why some average players cost much in tranfers.
Hasn't Mendy been suspended by City (and even in prison) most of this season? So counting him as a player for City seems a bit false. Ferran has obviously been a player for them up until recently (even though he seems to have been injured for almost the whole season).
Absolutely correct.
The Pep Templar are out now to tell us how average players playing the Champions League were before Pep picked them out of obscurity for 60 million and made them legends!
You don’t think that if they were a few points behind Liverpool that they would be replaced now in January?
The league is gone, he can play Ake when needed and wait 5 months.
What kind of an argument is that? Why not just pretend they got a lot of other players "they could have signed if they needed" as well, and cite them because they could as well have been City players. The fact is that neither of these players have played much part this season, espescially Mendy who has been suspended the entire season, so the fact that you cite these players as part of their second string is not really honest. Whether they replace them later this season or not is immaterial, it's not like other teams won't be looking to strengthen as well and will be splashing a lot of cash as well.
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Other teams will sell, City won’t. His squads before this season were arguably even stronger, so I am not going to give him credit for going without a 50 million left back when he has another one! It’s not like he was sold to buy Grealish. He is still in the squad!
Going strikerless shows how well he organizes teams, but it’s a five month stretch in a season where the league is already gone!
Everyone else will sell players to buy and balance their books. City won’t because of their profits. How is that not an advantage?
SAF once fielded this:
Fabio - Gibson - O'Shea - Rafael
As a midfield and we beat Arsenal.
They have not replace Aguero with a new shining toy yet. He was their top striker for several seasons