He is a carbon copy of Di Maria, Icardi and Higuain
Same mentality and attitude
Same mentality and attitude
Paulo Dybala
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Which in the case of Jose you bought into that demonisation good and proper.
Exactly,
Dybala was like that plumber who doesn't want the job and so quotes you 3x the price hoping you'll back away - but if you don't then he or she is quids in.
I think Ole might have had a hand in cutting off negotiations and whoever it was I back the decisions. We've become the beggars of the football world. A player demanding that much to wear the short is already getting used to holding us hostage before joining. Can happily jog on. Maybe there's some benefit to having a manager who understands the Clun because I know by now Ed could have naively caved and Jose would have run to the press if he didn't
No, they didn't. Juventus struggled a lot on the transfer market with Ranieri, Ferrara, Del Neri and even with Conte. They had to purchase from the bargain bin and it's only because Conte performed true miracles that they begun to attract proper players.
Truth is we have never been attractive to foreign talent relative to our size. We never bought superstars from other clubs, van persie is the only one that comes to mind when fergie was in charge. Rio and rooney were english. People really want to get at woodward, but the truth is, he has been good this summer. If we can bring in an attacking midfielder and with the level of youth we have coming through and those being signed, this will turn around
The managers are being supported but under Sir Alex, we let teams catch up to us and now we're playing catch up at a time fees have exploded. In reality the talk of 'value' hurt us big time and the owners lacked the ambition and foresight to see prices would escalate. So now, we're rewarding average players to pad out the squad and not bringing in the quality to challenge when it was available. We also gave away players that we shouldn't. But back on topic, someone said there could be more twists and turns with this and so I'd expect a strong statement from someone on Juves side if it's officially dead.
Similarly with Solskjaer too I guess.
I like that the club put belief into people quickly and back them, but I do feel this club need to be more cut throat.
We've got an image of being a nice, family style club but it's a bit like a holiday camp at times. Players are staying WAY longer than they should be, compare us to how Chelsea, City and even Liverpool at times.
I guarantee you if Karius was our keeper we wouldn't have replaced him, we would have said he's world class and needs time to settle etc.
Sure. Everyone would swap Thiago for Fellaini as much as everyone would go on replacing the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rio and Vidic, with, well, Young, Valencia, Cleverley, Jones and Smalling. There's no doubt that the club like sprinkling the dosh every now and then. Whether its anywhere near to what a top club like ours need is a different matter altogether. There's a reason why the Glazers are running not 1 sports entity but 2 sports entity to the ground.
Dear god are you guys still at it?
It’s over...
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It’s over...
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How does his image rights thing work, is it that United would have to pay him, or the company who owns him money every time United use him for promotion?
There goes our top four or Europa League hopes. Well and truly up in smoke now. So looking forward to the Europa League again in the 2020/21 season.
Juventus always bought bargains because they got an excellent scouting net who can pick great players. That's why they had been a dominating force in the Serie A since the 40s. However they almost always get the people they need and players go there irrespective of the manager on top.
Throughout my time the only time Juventus struggled was between the dismantling of the triade (2006) and the new administration (2010) when Juventus were basically leaderless. Lapo Elkann(known as the village idiot in the Agnelli family) had an active role in the club, Gianluca Pessotto 'fell' from a window in the Juventus HQ.
Then Andrea Agnelli took a more active role, Marotta and Paratici soon followed and the rest is history.
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I think that in terms of Mou the story is somehow in the middle. Its evident that the manager wasn't backed in his last season but its also true that most of his signings were cack.
Great decision by the club to end the interest in Dybala. He is a very talented player however there is no need in going for a player that doesn’t want to come to the club. We should keep our strategy in only pursuing hungry players that has United high on their pecking order of clubs they want to represent
I don't think that's true? More like a Bayern situation where they just hoover up all the talent from the lesser clubs within the league.
They weren't leaderless, the transition was done a delivered by JC Blanc. The issue is that during that time Juventus weren't attractive and weren't particularly wealthy. Your constant Juventus PR is just weird. As Lash said the first part isn't true and they struggled to find players for a long time.
Yeah but when he signed that extension, he probably was promised some more signings. He had a point still, doesn't mean he is faultless. The club responded because there were rumors with PSG but without a doubt Mourinho also asked for more funds to sign certain players. Otherwise he wouldn't have complained the way he did about it. I'm glad he's not the manager anymore anyway
How has he been good? Really?
So you’re agreeing that by sprinkling then dosh we are supporting the manager and your whole point up until now you’ve decided was just wrong. Great. Now let’s all move to the Havertz thread and see about making some ritual sacrifices to see if we can persuade ED to move for him.
Very disappointed this fell through, unfortunately we don't have the pull we once had and until we're back at the top players like Dybala will require crazy wages to join.
Can people stop with this whole Argentine discrimination rhetoric though? Like seriously there's 40 odd million people in the country. The whole Di Maria, Tevez comparison is lazy and ignorant.
Can people stop with this whole Argentine discrimination rhetoric though? Like seriously there's 40 odd million people in the country. The whole Di Maria, Tevez comparison is lazy and ignorant.
To be fair, that's most Argentinians. I've lived for almost three years in Argentina, and work/do a good job is the last thing 95% want to do. No wonder the inflation is killing the country.
The only ones working hard over there are Bolivians and Peruvians, and the Argies moan about them stealing their jobs.
What I said is that while the club do occasionally sprinkle the dosh its nowhere near to what is needed to bring/keep United on top. As said, there's a reason why the Glazers are running not 1 sports entity but 2 sports entity to the ground. Its also the same reason why all our former managers come up with the same conclusion. The club has poorly backed them
If the caf was a politician, they'd be Donald Trump.
Yeah this point needs to be driven through. Jose Mourinho got a LOT of backing from the board on transfers. An absolute ton of backing in fact.
Fred, Diogo Dalot, Romelu Lukaku, Nemanja Matic, Victor Lindelöf, Lee Grant, Alexis Sánchez, Paul Pogba, Henrikh Mkhitaryan (traded to Arsenal for Alexis Sánchez), Eric Bailly and Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
These are all the players that Jose brought into the club for a sum total of £392 million (gross) pounds. - £282 million net spend. That's £94 million avg every transfer window.
The only player that's been a success is Paul Pogba and Zlatan. Zlatan got injured as we all remember, and he did come on a free transfer. Lindelöf was largely a failure so far under Mourinho, so his only success purchase was one of the best players in the world anyway in Pogba. Matic has been ok but not exactly a world beater, and now he's often a liability.
So what happens, when Jose goes to the media and criticizes the board for not backing him in the transfer market? They point to the players he's purchased and go "Hey Jose, about those transfers you say you lack?
If there was a meme to be made out of the whole situation, it would be something along the lines of Jose Mourniho criticizing Jose Mourinho for buying players he can't use.
Sad that we not got Dybala but if he don't want to sign for Utd then it don't matter. Utd are a bigger and better thing then Dybala will ever be. He has been living in the shadows of Messi and Ronaldo for both club and Country. He could of signed for us and become the main man but he has decided to continue to be a bit part player. Clearly lacks the mentality to be the best
So how does this given we’ve spent record fees still not keen we are supporting the manager? There is a difference between supporting a manager what we have been doing and spending money we don’t have to try and catch up to City after we’ve made bad investments on players over the years.
It’s about buying the right players at the right time and building the team, not just spending 500mil in one summer because really no one can do that. Looks like we’ve spent 160 mil already this summer and there is still a chance we’ll bring in more. Managers not being supported. Honestly
Not sure how it works myself in detail. I imagine that we pay the party that owns his image rights to obtain a fair share of them or the right to use him for joint commercial deals with the club, not the exclusive rights. I dont think we pay him every time, we obtain the right for club purposes and then we can use him for that as much as we want. At least that is what i think
But with Dybala, the problem is also a different one. We want the 25% wages to go down clause if we dont reach the CL, which he didnt agree too. Then the high agent fees on top of his high wages. Then his image rights are as usual a haggling process, owned by a third party. Image rights of star players are important and of high value. We would have to pay a lot to obtain the right for commercial club purposes and it would take a while. And then his former agency are suing for a breach of contract after he left them, we got apparently warned of doing a transfer. If the player then isnt really convinced to join, i am not sure we would commit and push for a deal with only a few days left. If we had a month left and could convince the player to join, leaving us more time to haggle over the wages and image rights, then it would probably look better. But with not much time left and him not pushing for it, we wont push for it either financially, so that both parties kind of dont feel invested to do a quick deal.
And that's exactly the issue. Nearly every player he bought he wanted replacing within 2 years.
Of course they were leaderless. Calciopoli brought Juventus to its knees. Before that point they had the best board of directors, the best manager, the best players etc. The second later their board was taken to court, they were forced into the Serie B and their reputation was ruined. To make matters worse, Lapo Elkann (the village idiot of the Agnelli family) saw this as an opportunity to get involved into Juventus, something he could have easily done considering that he was brother of the guy calling the shts. Juventus were in such shambles that Pessotto ended up 'accidentally' falling out of Juventus HQ window. It was only after 2010 that things started to get normal with Jon appointing Andrea Agnelli who quickly signed Marotta and Paratici.
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So how does this given we’ve spent record fees still not keen we are supporting the manager? There is a difference between supporting a manager what we have been doing and spending money we don’t have to try and catch up to City after we’ve made bad investments on players over the years.
It’s about buying the right players at the right time and building the team, not just spending 500mil in one summer because really no one can do that. Looks like we’ve spent 160 mil already this summer and there is still a chance we’ll bring in more. Managers not being supported. Honestly
The issue is that we are mainly divided in two groups that either blame the manager or the board. For me it's relatively simple, there are blames on both sides and also reasonable excuses on both sides. We are not particularly bad but also not particularly good when it comes to club management.
All with 4 days to go I can see the problem. TBH I think it is a high risk transfer anyway, he isn't a modern day player, he is positionally very limited to a second striker IMO, well to get the best out of him.
So how does this given we’ve spent record fees still not keen we are supporting the manager? There is a difference between supporting a manager what we have been doing and spending money we don’t have to try and catch up to City after we’ve made bad investments on players over the years.
It’s about buying the right players at the right time and building the team, not just spending 500mil in one summer because really no one can do that. Looks like we’ve spent 160 mil already this summer and there is still a chance we’ll bring in more. Managers not being supported. Honestly
First of all, we spend alot of money because of our incompetent board who overspend on players, who can't provide cheaper alternatives to certain targets and who can't find sellers for our deadwood. We've been waiting for a DOF for the past year. Instead we were busy handling 5 year contracts to Jones while decent players like Herrera were allowed to go on free. Lets see if DDG won't quickly follow him.
Now if you think that this transfer market was a success or anywhere good enough then be my guest. 3 players (actually 2 as James is a squad player at best) will probably not be anywhere enough to bring us back to top 4 let alone compete for the real stuff especially since we're probably starting the season with a huge hole in CM, no RW and no adequate cover for Rashford.
Never really got the feeling he was on his way. Really dont want a player who doesnt want to be here.
We've entered a vicious cycle due to our lack of competitive success.
Had we been more successful on the pitch lately, De Ligt would have potentially joined us - actually saving us money versus Maguire no less - and Dybala probably wouldn't have asked for so much.
So now we either overpay or we accept we'll not be able to buy any of the world's best players any more until we manage to succeed without them.
Fun times ahead...
Had we been more successful on the pitch lately, De Ligt would have potentially joined us - actually saving us money versus Maguire no less - and Dybala probably wouldn't have asked for so much.
So now we either overpay or we accept we'll not be able to buy any of the world's best players any more until we manage to succeed without them.
Fun times ahead...
And you see that's the issue, for example Agnelli is credited for the new stadium when it's Blanc who oversaw it, Blanc was also the DG when Marotta and Paritici were appointed. Juventus were never leaderless, they struggled due to Calciopoli and the consequences from an image and finance standpoint not because they were "leaderless".
I don't think Dybala would want to come even if we were in the CL, reports say he was and never has been interested in coming to England.
My post wasn't a 'capture all' and for some reason anything posted some fans on here want to point out what you didn't say or take it out of context. Lots of reasons why people do things and good reasons why they don't too. Never dismissed it, just didn't mention it. Players/agents will try to determine the club reaches the player goals and not just the clubs. This is what interests the player in the first instance. Could be Barca, Real or City, if the players goals aren't being met, they care less about the possibilities of winning things. That's not to say they dont. DDG is a world class goalkeeper, do you think he's extending his contract based on Utd' goals? Let's not make assumptions that goals = either where a team finishes or trophies. I guessing cause I know the mind of every footballer but I'd imagine the club achieving goals also equals more money and this is also part of their motivation.
I like the way you use a broad brush that top players will be wary to join because where we finished in the last 6 years like that defines us as a football club. People's memories are short and we didn't always win things, in fact we went a long time when we didn't. Strangely enough it didn't stop us signing fantastic players or an unprecedented world wide fan base. We are the only team in this country that irrespective of not wining things can afford (excuse the pun) that luxury. The value of this club sadly seems to be greater from the outside the country than the inside it. I've been fortunate to travel, and even in the most remote and poorest village, you'll see a kid in an old Utd shirt. It's probably one of the most iconic football badges in world sport. It's one of only a couple of clubs that command a world audience when we sign players. I think that means something to some footballers. That's the value of the club beyond its 6th position and not being in CL.....
Clearly a brief by the club. All quiet in Italy.
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