Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”

hobbers said:
Grim. So grim.

Sub top-four level of midfield cohort.
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Demonstrably false statement when you consider that Mctominay, Fred and Fernandes have been a mainstay in a top four side for several seasons now, and that the new signing would solve the 6 position.
 
In a long while I am not really bothered letting him go, he seems to be part of the problem in our midfield conundrum. I have always felt him and Fernandes cannot play in same midfield.
If he stays fine, if he goes perhaps a new beginning may do us all good.
 
E-mal said:
In a long while I am not really bothered letting him go, he seems to be part of the problem in our midfield conundrum. I have always felt him and Fernandes cannot play in same midfield.
If he stays fine, if he goes perhaps a new beginning may do us all good.
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The big issue with selling him, is that we then need 2 midfielders again. As we've barely got one midfield signing right in a decade, it's a stretch to get 2 right.
 
Sandikan said:
The big issue with selling him, is that we then need 2 midfielders again. As we've barely got one midfield signing right in a decade, it's a stretch to get 2 right.
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If VdB doesn't come good this season, then yes I agree. Otherwise not really.

But at least then we'd get a CM who's good at being a CM in a 2-man midfield pivot and not one that is better used on the left where we have 3 other players already (Rashford, Sancho, Martial). The conundrum the previous poster is talking about is very much real. When we play 4-2-3-1 with Bruno being basically support striker, then adding Pogba in CM makes our midfield porous. I don't know how many examples of this we have to see of this before it sinks in. There's a reason Pogba is used more on the left than the middle. And I don't see us changing the formation we use or the way Bruno plays.
 
CR1 said:
Demonstrably false statement when you consider that Mctominay, Fred and Fernandes have been a mainstay in a top four side for several seasons now, and that the new signing would solve the 6 position.
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In your team you have mctominay, fred, vdB, Matic and some academy kids for the 2 defensive midfield positions. None of them are good at chance creation from midfield, which would mean that it will become exponentially harder to break down a low block.

We've seen mctominay and fred try to create chances against a low block, I've got no idea why you'd want to go back to that.
 
Sandikan said:
The big issue with selling him, is that we then need 2 midfielders again. As we've barely got one midfield signing right in a decade, it's a stretch to get 2 right.
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We needed two midfielders regardless. I still think he is probably the best option on the left, but for several reasons and another being the recent signing of Ronaldo.....he should have been sold this summer.

Now we will be playing him in central midfield and as talented as he is, that bring probelms as well
 
jesperjaap said:
We needed two midfielders regardless. I still think he is probably the best option on the left, but for several reasons and another being the recent signing of Ronaldo.....he should have been sold this summer.

Now we will be playing him in central midfield and as talented as he is, that bring probelms as well
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Without him we have a massive problem progressing the ball quickly. I figure that's why we aren't rushing the no6 signing. The no6 needs firstly to be able to get the ball to bruno/the wings 1 touch, and secondly to be able to cover for an 8 who likes to bomb forward.

We didn't sell Pogba this summer because there was noone available who could play 6 well enough. Pogba and Shaw (and occasionally maguire/varane) are vital to our current team because they are the ones who pick the ball up in defensive positions and get the ball to our attackers quickly. If we had got rid of Pogba we would be relying on our new midfielder to both be solid defensively and to play the role of pogba in starting attacks. I don't think there is a player available who could do that. So we kept Pogba.
 
GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
In your team you have mctominay, fred, vdB, Matic and some academy kids for the 2 defensive midfield positions. None of them are good at chance creation from midfield, which would mean that it will become exponentially harder to break down a low block.

We've seen mctominay and fred try to create chances against a low block, I've got no idea why you'd want to go back to that.
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Read my post again. Matic is not listed as I assumed he'll leave. And I don't have two defensive positions, only one:

6: New Signing, Fred
8: Mctominay, Vdb (Mejbri)
10: Fernandes, Mejbri (Vdb)

And I also wrote that the Academy players might go out on loan (except Mejbri). If not they'll fill up the pecking order after the six players I list here above.
 
RDCR07 said:
That only further reiterates my point. If he has a few years on his contract we can easily demand silly money for him. Who was willing to pay? It’s like Haaland now. Every team wants him but why pay €175m when you can pay €65m for him next year. It doesn’t mean Haaland doesn’t have a market this year.
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Wouldn't this prove Broph's point? If no one is willing to pay the asking price this summer, then there is no market for him this summer?
 
CR1 said:
Read my post again. Matic is not listed as I assumed he'll leave. And I don't have two defensive positions, only one:

6: New Signing, Fred
8: Mctominay, Vdb (Mejbri)
10: Fernandes, Mejbri (Vdb)

And I also wrote that the Academy players might go out on loan (except Mejbri). If not they'll fill up the pecking order after the six players I list here above.
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Maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough. It's fine to say that McTominay and Bruno are top 4 midfielders (jury's very much still out on Fred and vdB). But when McTominay plays deep his pass progression is really poor. I don't think fred can play 6 as his game is no8 - get around the pitch shutting down passing options. In that group (vdB, McTominay, fred - bruno is a no10 and his position is just different) we have no-one who can do what Pogba does - reliably create chances and beat players from deep.

There would be a massive gap between our defence and attack, as we wouldn't have anyone who is good at moving the ball quickly forward. We could have an attack of Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno all standing at the half-way line all game cos we have no-one who could get the ball to them. Buying a no6 will not solve that, unless we find a previously unknown god-level cdm.

I think you're massively underestimating how important Pogba is for us as an attacking force. From cm/am he has been majorly involved in pretty much all of our goals so far this season - you can't downplay that.
 
Barnslig said:
Wouldn't this prove Broph's point? If no one is willing to pay the asking price this summer, then there is no market for him this summer?
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Again why would anyone pay £75m for him this summer when they can get him for free next summer? It’s doesn’t mean no one wants him.
 
GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
In your team you have mctominay, fred, vdB, Matic and some academy kids for the 2 defensive midfield positions. None of them are good at chance creation from midfield, which would mean that it will become exponentially harder to break down a low block.

We've seen mctominay and fred try to create chances against a low block, I've got no idea why you'd want to go back to that.
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That's not a midfield issue at United. In our system we have 4 forwards plus Shaw playing very offensive. That's why the team looks better with McFred in midfield - they provide better balance, even if they keep it simple, they move the ball quickly and that's enough for weak opponents with all that firing force we have up front. Last season we didn't really have much issues with breaking low block teams. It's against top, well organized teams that we struggle. Unfortunately Pogba is a no-go in midfield against those opponents.

GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
Without him we have a massive problem progressing the ball quickly. I figure that's why we aren't rushing the no6 signing. The no6 needs firstly to be able to get the ball to bruno/the wings 1 touch, and secondly to be able to cover for an 8 who likes to bomb forward.

We didn't sell Pogba this summer because there was noone available who could play 6 well enough. Pogba and Shaw (and occasionally maguire/varane) are vital to our current team because they are the ones who pick the ball up in defensive positions and get the ball to our attackers quickly. If we had got rid of Pogba we would be relying on our new midfielder to both be solid defensively and to play the role of pogba in starting attacks. I don't think there is a player available who could do that. So we kept Pogba.
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We didn't sell Pogba because there were no offers. Nobody was interested in paying for him when all the signs indicate he'll be available for free next summer.
 
GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
Maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough. It's fine to say that McTominay and Bruno are top 4 midfielders (jury's very much still out on Fred and vdB). But when McTominay plays deep his pass progression is really poor. I don't think fred can play 6 as his game is no8 - get around the pitch shutting down passing options. In that group (vdB, McTominay, fred - bruno is a no10 and his position is just different) we have no-one who can do what Pogba does - reliably create chances and beat players from deep.

There would be a massive gap between our defence and attack, as we wouldn't have anyone who is good at moving the ball quickly forward. We could have an attack of Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno all standing at the half-way line all game cos we have no-one who could get the ball to them. Buying a no6 will not solve that, unless we find a previously unknown god-level cdm.

I think you're massively underestimating how important Pogba is for us as an attacking force. From cm/am he has been majorly involved in pretty much all of our goals so far this season - you can't downplay that.
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I absolutely agree Fred is more of an 8 than a 6. But he has shown he can do a job if paired with Mctominay. So I think he'd be good enough to be the back-up 6. And if not, like I said there's also Galbraith, Garner and Levitt who are all doing well on loan. In fact, Ole has signed three right wingers since becoming the manager so why not sign at least two CDM:s, given how that position is equally a big a problem for him? Probaby won't happen though, especially since he already has the aforementioned three Academy prospects.

There is no God-level CDM obviously. But I think players like Bissouma, Neves and Rice would improve us markedly. Surely there are also a lot of unknown options on the market that we don't know about.

But maybe you and @hobbers are right in that I underestimate the impact of Pogba potentially leaving. Don't get me wrong, I like and rate Pogba, but no one can deny he has been inconsistent or that he needs just the right accomodation to play well. I just think that if you put a specialized 6 in midfield then you get the best out of Mctominay who IMO is often underestimated as a player. Also, isn't Mejbri similar to Pogba in that he is good at carrying the ball forward and making progressive passes? All I'm saying is that if Pogba leaves I don't think replacing him like for like should be considered a priority or even necessity, especially since getting someone of his standing in the game would be quite difficult to say the least. I'm in favour of keeping him if he wants to stay, but sometimes letting go of a big player can free up others.
 
Whatever happens, whether he goes or stays we need to think about bringing in a top top player who can play and control play from the holding midfield role, this January.
Tchouameni would be ideal.
 
Borys said:
That's not a midfield issue at United. In our system we have 4 forwards plus Shaw playing very offensive. That's why the team looks better with McFred in midfield - they provide better balance, even if they keep it simple, they move the ball quickly and that's enough for weak opponents with all that firing force we have up front. Last season we didn't really have much issues with breaking low block teams. It's against top, well organized teams that we struggle. Unfortunately Pogba is a no-go in midfield against those opponents.
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That's not what I've seen at all. I've seen us regularly struggle against weaker teams with Fred and Scott because the ball doesn't move forward from midfield to our attackers fast or sharply enough and the other team has a chance to set itself. We tend to do better against stronger teams.

Last season Pogba dragged us through a run of games around christmas against low blocks, with either goals or game-breaking passes in 4 or 5 games. Pogba is probably our most important player in breaking down low blocks (with ronaldo and bruno).
 
RDCR07 said:
Again why would anyone pay £75m for him this summer when they can get him for free next summer? It’s doesn’t mean no one wants him.
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I'd ask the same question. But Real just offered £175m for Mbape who can be signed for free in 4 months ready for next season.
 
Ezryder said:
I'd ask the same question. But Real just offered £175m for Mbape who can be signed for free in 4 months ready for next season.
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There are conflicting reports about this. PSG say they didn’t receive an offer from Madrid on the last day.
 
Play the man in CM whether he wants to or not.

We have about 8 wingers and midfield is where we're performing worst.

Pogbas one of the best midfielders in the world. How the feck are Fred and McTominay being picked there instead of Pogba playing there.
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Play the man in CM whether he wants to or not.

We have about 8 wingers and midfield is where we're performing worst.

Pogbas one of the best midfielders in the world. How the feck are Fred and McTominay being picked there instead of Pogba playing there.
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Don't think it's Pogba's decision. It was away from home and Ole likes his Mcfred midfield
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Play the man in CM whether he wants to or not.

We have about 8 wingers and midfield is where we're performing worst.

Pogbas one of the best midfielders in the world. How the feck are Fred and McTominay being picked there instead of Pogba playing there.
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It’s quite simple really, it only requires having watched Pogba play for us in any period of time over the last 5 years.

Pogba is not disciplined enough to play the role of 1 of 2 CMs in a pivot for the full 90 mins. He will start getting careless in possession, trying to dribble instead of keeping it simple, failing to track runners. When he has time on the ball he is fine and when his starts getting pressed his decision making becomes woeful. We have seen this act time and time again.

The reason he plays on the left is because every one else including the management is aware of this.
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Play the man in CM whether he wants to or not.

We have about 8 wingers and midfield is where we're performing worst.

Pogbas one of the best midfielders in the world. How the feck are Fred and McTominay being picked there instead of Pogba playing there.
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This.

Play the man in the middle & look to dominate the game. Can Pogba occasionally be a liability in there yes, but his ability on the ball outweighs McFreds enthusiasm off it, someone was spouting stats in the Fred thread & he gets ran through like a turnstile - they had a few decent back to the wall appearances which have been extrapolated into something they aren’t.
 
Pogba is the assist machine this season but I can’t help looking at the midfield and seeing it’s all out of balance. Part of that conundrum is Pogba

look at Liverpool, won the league with a workmanlike midfield, who worked well together allowing the better bits of the team to function

so that’s something we need to solve and I’m not sure that we can
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Play the man in CM whether he wants to or not.

We have about 8 wingers and midfield is where we're performing worst.

Pogbas one of the best midfielders in the world. How the feck are Fred and McTominay being picked there instead of Pogba playing there.
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Because its a team game and you cant just look at individual players, you need to look the functioning of the whole. Basically we need balance.

We are already carrying Bruno defensively as he is playing basically as 2nd striker when you look at his heat map and he does not protect the ball. We need to balance that with two defensively astute CMs of which Pogba is not.

Pogba in the pivot can work vs smaller teams but against a big team we are too lightweight in the middle.

Take out the 10 Bruno and play a deeper 8 and a 6, in that scenario Pogba can easily play as a CM against anyone.
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Play the man in CM whether he wants to or not.

We have about 8 wingers and midfield is where we're performing worst.

Pogbas one of the best midfielders in the world. How the feck are Fred and McTominay being picked there instead of Pogba playing there.
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Because Pogba in midfield only works in some specific conditions, which occur in about 20% of games. So we will shift him around all season trying to find a use for him but he'll never have a set position in this team IMO.
 
Pogba CAN NOT play CM in any match that is against a top opponent or we get exposed. He doesn't have the work rate to play that role at least not in the premier league.
 
Redlyn said:
Because its a team game and you cant just look at individual players, you need to look the functioning of the whole. Basically we need balance.

We are already carrying Bruno defensively as he is playing basically as 2nd striker when you look at his heat map and he does not protect the ball. We need to balance that with two defensively astute CMs of which Pogba is not.

Pogba in the pivot can work vs smaller teams but against a big team we are too lightweight in the middle.

Take out the 10 Bruno and play a deeper 8 and a 6, in that scenario Pogba can easily play as a CM against anyone.
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I agree with this and I'm shocked that Ole isn't asking Bruno to play 10/15 yards deeper. Instead he just joins a group of attackers that are standing back to goal.
 
Borys said:
Because Pogba in midfield only works in some specific conditions, which occur in about 20% of games. So we will shift him around all season trying to find a use for him but he'll never have a set position in this team IMO.
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So he’s only any good in the CM again 4 teams in the EPL?

I’m all for saying Pogba in CM causes issues, it certainly can, but if the answer the other ‘80%’ is McFred than I’d rather play a midfielder that could win me the game.

The vast majority of league games we should be looking to dominate possession, if we’re picking a midfield against the likes of 8th place & below based on their threat on the counter attack then we’re doing it wrong imo. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be vigilant of the threat every team can pose but we’re not some plucky underdog in the vast majority of our games. McFred are also very capable at conceding possession in bad areas & losing 50/50s.

If the choice is McFred or Pogba+1, then in the vast majority of games we should be choosing the latter.
Redlyn said:
Because its a team game and you cant just look at individual players, you need to look the functioning of the whole. Basically we need balance.

We are already carrying Bruno defensively as he is playing basically as 2nd striker when you look at his heat map and he does not protect the ball. We need to balance that with two defensively astute CMs of which Pogba is not.

Pogba in the pivot can work vs smaller teams but against a big team we are too lightweight in the middle.

Take out the 10 Bruno and play a deeper 8 and a 6, in that scenario Pogba can easily play as a CM against anyone.
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This. 4-3-3.
 
pascell said:
Nor can he play LW, see the Liverpool game, it was suicide playing Pogba LW against Alexander-Arnold.
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i just don't see where Pogba fits in this squad when we are playing big matches. He shouldn't play CM and he shouldn't play LW simply b/c he can't defend and throws off the balance of the squad
 
bosskeano said:
i just don't see where Pogba fits in this squad when we are playing big matches. He shouldn't play CM and he shouldn't play LW simply b/c he can't defend and throws off the balance of the squad
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Surely the answer is the formation then, no? We have the personnel to be more flexible but we’re tying ourselves to a formation.

McFred has steadily been found out since ‘that night in Paris’, Pogba has played a rather large part in a team winning a World Cup, he isn’t some also ran.
 
golden_blunder said:
Pogba is the assist machine this season but I can’t help looking at the midfield and seeing it’s all out of balance. Part of that conundrum is Pogba

look at Liverpool, won the league with a workmanlike midfield, who worked well together allowing the better bits of the team to function

so that’s something we need to solve and I’m not sure that we can
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Put Fabinho in there with Pogba and suddenly our Midfield will look far better than what it is. If only we had signed him when he was desperate to come to us and binned Matic. But we gave Matic the new contract and signed VDB and Fred.
 
Ezryder said:
I'd ask the same question. But Real just offered £175m for Mbape who can be signed for free in 4 months ready for next season.
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They didn't actually have the money though, it was a statement of intent to Mbappe and his agent. They knew PSG wouldn't accept anything under £200m
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Surely the answer is the formation then, no? We have the personnel to be more flexible but we’re tying ourselves to a formation.

McFred has steadily been found out since ‘that night in Paris’, Pogba has played a rather large part in a team winning a World Cup, he isn’t some also ran.
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I disagree....ever since Ole has gone to the McFred CM pairing in big matches we've been pretty damn good which is from the covid return.

No, Pogba isn't an also ran however we don't have Kante playing beside him either. Scott nor Fred can play that role next to Pogba b/c they don't have the engine that Kante does to cover for two people.

Pogba also got found out in the recent euros that against top level players he struggles playing in a two person midfield
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Pogbas one of the best midfielders in the world. How the feck are Fred and McTominay being picked there instead of Pogba playing there.
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Best when? Certainly not whenever he plays in a midfield two in our 4-2-3-1 formation. Either he needs to play on the left of a three or we need to find some god-like partner to sit alongside him in a two and cover for all of his defensive shortcomings.
 
devilo said:
Best when? Certainly not whenever he plays in a midfield two in our 4-2-3-1 formation. Either he needs to play on the left of a three or we need to find some god-like partner to sit alongside him in a two and cover for all of his defensive shortcomings.
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Or just a defensive midfielder that can run, tackle and pass.

Is it too much to ask for? A player than can do all 3?

Matic can't run and Fred and McTominay can't pass.
 
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